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DragomirMember Since 10 Oct 2009
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Posted Frostwor on 05 October 2013 - 04:57 PM
Hello guys, lately I have noticed a lot of rogues have moved to assa or even combat, just because sub damage feels low, and people dont know actually what to do as a sub rogue to deal damage. So I decided to make this short guide that will explain some very basic things which I have the feeling a lot of the new rogues or " low skilled" kinda miss and cant enjoy sub because of that. Feel free to correct me if I have written something wrong and etc.
This guide is written for arenas, in rbgs and duels the playstyle and talent choice may differ.
Fast talent choice and why to pick them.
This is a mini dance and allows more damage, control, survivability and also allows you to land your opener much more easy vs teams that have high AoE or very good positioning at the start of the arena.
2) Nerve Strike or Combat Readiness
This is a personal choice to how you play. In general NS is against caster based teams, and CR vs physical based teams. However you can still go with NS vs physical based teams it's a matter of choice.
3) Cheat Death or Elusiveness
Personally Elusiveness is in every way better than CD atm for me. I have seen some rogues pick CD but ± 95% of the rogue elite goes with Elusiveness. CD however is sometimes good and can be changed vs teams that can 1 shot you, like the Elemental shaman teams which can gain 1 proc and global you.
4) Shadow Step
SS gives a lot of utility. It can be used both aggressively or defensively by stepping to your healer, even eating traps some times with it. Another great bonus is that you go behind the target. This means that after it you can use and ability and it will land 100%. E.G. Warrior uses Die by the Sword. SS>Disarm or Kidney will make sure you don't take damage while he uses it and your ability wont get parried. The other choices in this tree are also very good for certain situations but SS is the top one atm.
5) Pray on the Weak
This tallent is the way to go for a sub rogue, the 10% bonus is not only for you but also for your partners. I have seen some rogues using Para poison but just because it is much more efficient when you train a target (which is not what sub does), the root is also helpful but it DRs other roots so its not that good with most rogue comps since your partners already have roots too.
6) Marked for Death
It has 1minute cd which has amazing synergy with Shadow Dance, using 5 combo points for evi or kidney while dancing is insane.
Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins give you the bonus damage from Sanguinary Veins (25%). This glyph saves you time, combo points, and energy. It is very nice and helps out switching to other targets a lot. In other words keep Hemmo dot 24/7.
I will not discuss other glyphs as they don't give you any damage and I want to keep this guide simple. I will just list the useful in pvp.
Blind - (a must have one), Cheap Shot, Garrot, Feint, Cloak of Shadows, Recovery,
Recuperate, Smoke Bomb, Redirect.
There are 3 general ways in which you can open a target depending on how much pressure you want to make. The general formula and the type of CC or DMG ability depends on what CDS the enemy uses and what class he is:
Trick you partner > Premed > Slice n Dice > Opener type > Crowd Control > Damage > Crowd Control > Damage.
Shadow Blades with Subterfuge. This opener uses Subterfuge as a mini Shadow Dance and along with Blades makes insane damage at the start and it is followed later (after DR resets) by the real SD. The tactic is to force a lot of defensive CDs from your enemy and then utilise SD as a lockdown//damage imput and land a kill.
Pure SD opener. Pretty much applying pressure at start again forcing defensive cds, and waiting for the next dance or reset.
Blades and Dance. This is usually used vs targets that dont have safe net abilities like Iceblock and can be killed in the opener if they get too greedy in using defensive CDs or dont get help from their partners.
Slice n Dice.
This may look a stupid topic but a lot of the new rogues dont understand the way energy gain works since this expansion (Cata also ) is not what the game style with energy was before and it feels less punishing but it adds up a lot.
So the reason of keeping slice n dice is not only because it's amazing for the auto atack % we get but because of the energy gain, as a rogue you should try keep SnD as much as possible up but also monitor it closely. Try not spamming combo points in useless refresh of SnD (E.G. you have 20 seconds more and you refresh it to max) because in this way you lose a Evi, Recupe or a KS timing.
The Energy Pulse of SnD
Now here it gets really important and this is the reason I have put SnD as a section in this guide. Rogue's energy regen is base line and adds up a bit from haste but with the current state of the game it doesn't really matter if you have some haste more or less. However, SnD gives you 8 energy every 2 seconds due to Energetic Recovery. The trick is exactly in this. When you start open or try to burst down an enemy and you have 100% of your energy you have to aim in timing exactly the 1st ability you wand on your target with that energy regen tick.
For example: I'm playing 2s as a Rogue dPriest vs Death Knight rDruid. My mass stealth is about to expire and I decide to open on the Dk since i cant find the druid. I sap the dk so that my priest can get a good position and clean the dk from buffs. I do SnD wait for my energy to go max and time my cheap shot or garrot right before the energy tick comes so while my Global cool down is up I will get 8+ energy more, so I have actually reduced the cost of my 1st ability with 8 energy which is a lot.
There are few addOns which can help you in getting used to this energy tick regen but practice makes it the best and in time it will become like an inner heart beat to when the tick procs.
Setting up the kill.
It is incredible how many times I have seen people playing around 2k rating even higher blow cool downs into stupid things and when having a bad position. Most classes have very high stable damage and rely on it to land a kill, so its less punishing. However Sub rogue is not one of them. Sub has very low damage outside of cooldows and needs very good timing and coordination with your team so you can apply pressure and even land a kill. So this is how you do it. (This is the general situation as in arenas a lot of things can change and its not ideal.)
When you see your SD is coming back ask if your partner has any damage cds up, if he doesn't you can choose between waiting for him to get them or just using dance to apply pressure. You can also try set a kill with SD only and your partner helping you dps.
During the time of the burst you must 1st cc the other 2 people from the enemy team so they cant Peel or Heal. Try to do this CC when you see the enemy has no or little defensive abilities and has no shields or hots on him. You can use Evasion or Cloak aggressively so that the enemy cant Peel you but make sure you dont blow such important defensive cds if you have nothing else (vanish etc.) because if you dont land a kill you will be in big trouble.
Pool your energy up to 100% or around it have SnD up and a garrot or hemmo dot on your target to trigger the bonus from Sang Veins. Make sure you have 5cp and TotT your parter.
Land a full KS and Dance with Mark (and Blades if you have)*. What actually happens at the moment is that you'r giving 25% bonus damage to your partner because of TotT and Pray on the Weak this is = to him having a berserker buff in a BG the damage should sky rocket. This is one of the scenarios when the target has nothing to evade this stun. There is no certain formula and you just need to practice it sometimes you will need to CS first to force a CD like blink then kidney and garrot, sometimes you will have to garrot first and so on. Play arenas:)
*Sometimes you can use vanish if your dance is on cd to force a subterfuge mini dance if the timing is good.
The meta game here is that if unpeeled Dance on a naked target with no shields or hots should be able to get him to at least 30% only from your damage and if you are not lucky with your crits.
Dat Damage Outside of Dance.
So far we have seen that Sub dance is very good and the main tool for doing damage unfortunately it lasts only a few seconds, so how do you do damage outside of SD?!
Training a target is brainless because after 3-4 backstabs you drop around 20% of your energy and stick around it meaning you can land 1 stab every few seconds after...
The right way is to pool energy as much as possible while trying to sit on a target with auto attack (you do this mainly to prevent a caster from casting not due to the dmg input). Once you have pulled some energy and you have 5cp TotT your partner and kidney shot this is the best thing you can do (+25% more damage to your partner) if you cannot get a reset and ur getting trained or chasing a healer.
If the enemy is trying to CC you or simply dont focus you and go for your partners try get as many as resets you can. Every time you do so you get a mini dance due to subterfuge and you automatically pool energy while waiting to reset. Dont forget you also gain 5% more damage from master of subtlety every time you go in stealth and not just only that but also find weakness which is one of the main reasons why you reset.
In arena doing the right thing at the right time is the most important thing try pumping your energy into damage when you see the target has no defensive buffs. Trying to hit a warrior while he has a 100k shield from a disc priest with renew will just waste your energy. Try damaging when his shield is down or right after it expires.
Some targets may seem very nice to continue smashing on but that is just a mistake. Pumping damage into a warrior at 40% hp with shield wall up while his healer is free casting heals on him is useless, he wont die. Instead better pool energy while the shield wall is up so you can use it after and apply more pressure.
Another very important part of the game no matter what dps you are. Switching between targets is very important. Many times people run in bad positions and are a good target to atack, sometimes they simply have no shields or hots on them and so on. This is a part of the game that is way too complex to explain in a guide and it takes practice to see when you can make a good switch. But by doing so you will probably not only do some more damage but force a defensive cd which is yet another advantage.
I hope you have enjoyed this guide and will force new players to choose rogue and see the fun aspects in it. This is a very small % of what rogue does in arena since it covers only some very basic tricks and improving your damage. Yet the real thing about rogue is controling your opponent. It would be lovely if some of the top dogs from the rogue community reply in this thread and give some ideas to edit this content.
P.S. Still need to edit typos and add some comas etc. etc. will do it later on.
Posted Bearzerk92 on 18 July 2013 - 12:15 AM
Posted Covlol on 31 January 2013 - 08:27 AM
if ur so against the company, than plz do us all a favor and quit playing their product. at least this way we dont have to see ur bought glad title mucking up these forums.
Posted Chancesz on 29 January 2013 - 10:19 PM
Posted Vexo on 18 January 2013 - 07:09 PM
Posted mackazar on 18 January 2013 - 05:38 PM
Posted Kifasa on 11 January 2013 - 07:06 AM
Posted andysc on 29 December 2012 - 03:46 AM
This post is dedicated to the true greats of World of Warcraft - real legends who crushed their enemies with reckless abandon and extreme prejudice. Good friends, great teammates - competent human beings who have since moved on. People who innovated, had fun and enjoyed victory against all odds. This post is aimed at dismantling someone who means to take up the mantle of greatness in their absence, without reverence or homage - he who would wear the mantle of victory as though it were always his. He who would wear it while all the while knowing it is only granted to him through attrition.
My name is Reed. You may know me better as Reedful, or Reedwise. This post is not about how great I am, merely how terrible someone else is. Please try to understand this not from my perspective, but from the perspective of everyone who has ever truly been the best at this game, found that it offered them nothing once they were at the top, and quit like a man.
Anyways, if you're still reading, you know who I am. Bailamos was a rival RBG team captain during the end of season 9/beginning of season 10, when me and my ragtag band of gangsters were at our prime in the World of Warcraft. To preface, when I say rival, it's important to note that I mean that more literally than figuratively. To be concise, I mean that we didn't view them as competition, and that I'm pretty sure his actual most prestigious arena title earned is, "Rival." - despite his shady helmets on this website.
A little back-story here, before we begin: Bailamos(hereafter occasionally referred to as Jordan) was a Human Rogue on Kel'thuzad. Ironically the guild master of <Girls Should Be Healers> at the time, he had nearly a thousand RBGs played in those seasons alone. Bailamos has been Gladiator one time by purchasing it in season 9(I know this because he and his girlfriend had a fight about the expenditure, which she told me about.) Jordan resided in Kent, Washington with his girlfriend, Katie - I was stationed at Fort Lewis, at the time.
To begin: my team's personal record was 114-7. We trounced every other major team out there. That isn't to say we've never lost to them, but we mostly won. Anyway, we had been playing for almost all of season 9 and season 10 was fast approaching. Real life intervened and some of my less reliable members began to flake out, or announce their upcoming unavailability. My first priority was recruiting a Rogue. We'd never actually played against Bailamos at this point but word had gotten around that they wanted a piece of us, and a piece is certainly what almost all of them would end up getting(unfortunately for Bailamos, his girlfriend would be receiving a very specific piece, over and over again)
Now for the dramatic parts: I made an alt on Kel'thuzad and, as always, my reputation preceded me. He/she invited me to the guild, and began chatting me up in the traditional way a legend is received. Trumpets were sounded, feasts were readied. Normally I'd post chat logs to add authenticity to my tale of sexual duplicity but this was ages ago, so nude pictures will suffice. Anyways, Bailamos starts in with all this flattery and I deployed my usual, never-fail pick up line: "you a lady?"
He said yes, he was a lady. Then we got down to business; I asked if he wanted to come play for me and my guild in RBGs. He said he would transfer if my team was capable of beating his. I accepted with a general sense of chivalry and sexual competition, all the while thinking I was courting a lady whose RBG team was only a few tiers under mine.
Having never backed down from any challenge ever, I accepted. We finally were able to coordinate queuing into each other, and the rest is legend. When we met them in Gilneas post-nerf, they had a few R1s, a pretty strong line up and I was talking with Kathryn ******* on RealID. The game started out, and I ordered my trademarked, "Hannibal ante portas" Gilneas strategy. We had 3 capped them before the fourth minute, and tales of my and Spacejelly'z legendary damage were heralded by the scoreboard.
This next part is really the crux of my story. I was instantly removed from Real ID by Kathryn *******, no one followed up with me about how badly they lost this supposed grudge match, and nothing was mentioned about our gentleman's wager. Then, I took a ten minute break and came back to find that I had a new Skype contact request. I accepted it, and.. the person on the other side of the screen said their name was Katie and asked if I had some time to talk. I ordered my men to stand down, and take a break - I think they all went to get some beef jerky, and maybe bench 225 a few times to get warmed up. She explained that she was Jordan's girlfriend, that she had been watching the entire fiasco between me and him and that she was so disgusted that he had actually pretended to be a girl.
More importantly, though, she said that she had been reading all of it, the entire time, and that she was really intrigued by my writing style and the tales of my glory in ground combat in Fallujah that I had been using to pursue the person I thought I was talking to. "Where do you live?" I inquired.
"Seattle." she said. Less than thirty minutes away.
At the time of this miscellaneous romantic encounter, I was stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington - a magical location that she estimated to be 45 minutes away from where she and Jordan lived. Her actual address came out to be closer to 25 minutes. I am getting ahead of myself, however. I wasn't gonna meet up with just any broad, so naturally I inquired as to the status and measurements of her various womanly assets, and the pictures are as follows:
A solid 7, in my opinion. Anyways, we talked some more and it turned out that she was just fed up with Jordan aka Bailamos. She said he never left their apartment, he spent all of their savings on buying Gladiator that season and that the sex was terrible and constant. I offered to alleviate almost all of her relationship problems with a meeting for coffee and a potential remedy.
The remedy was my legendary wizard dick.
She regaled me with tales on how hanging out with me was like hanging out with someone from The Rolling Stones. She told her mother about me and, at quite a few intervals, she asked if she could watch me PvP from the laptop she brought with her in the hotel room I had to get, because I didn't want to ruin my sheets(threadcount, nah mean.) She blurted out some business about how Bailamos and her had talked about me briefly in between bouts of rabbit-like lovemaking, about how tremendously he was effected by my way with words, and how angry it made him. She was attracted to my numerous Red Helmets, my prowess with a keyboard and my dimples - not to mention my pecs, Bronze Star with Valor, and Land Rover.
She had 8 days before she was going back to live with her parents - Jordan didn't know yet, but she was committed to breaking up with him. I was still on active duty in the infantry at the time, so I was pretty busy. But once I knew she was leaving, she went from friend with benefits to rental car status. I rode her into the ground on several occasions. In my car, standing outside my car, in a hotel room, in my apartment, in a bathroom in a Subway. I mean that seriously Jordan. I want you to know that I banged your girlfriend a lot. Sometimes, I didn't even want to do it again. I'd be tired, and she'd be less than fresh. But I did do it again. Because you though you were better than me, talked shit, and lost like a woman.
Don't get me wrong, however: Kathryn ******* is an absolutely fantastic lay, with the libido of a 13 year old boy(not that I would know anything about 13 year old boys, despite what my fanbase on Korgath had to say.) We had less than a week left until she left you to move back in with her parents, and I literally did things to her that I would never do to a person I thought I'd ever have to see again. I really want you to know that. You were leading RBGs with less talent and skill than I, while I had enough free time to ruin your girlfriend for other men sexually for the next three months and still be better than you at something you devoted your life to.
<<< Of course, things started getting crazy towards the end. She got more emotional, which I wouldn't tolerate, and she got really self-conscious about moving back home with her parents. This part is for you, Bailamos. Because you told people you were better than us: she told me, the night she left, that I could have anything I wanted. I won't tell you what I did, but I will tell you where I did it. I opened the rear door on my Land Rover on an abandoned mortar range on Fort Lewis, and railed your girlfriend for fifteen minutes. I didn't measure, but I'd estimate my thrusting moved my 6000 pound car approximately 15 feet during the ordeal.
And I swear to god, when she said, "I'm going to be sore for the entire plane ride."
"I live my life a quarter mile at a time."
This is when the story gets back to WoW again. So, she left. I don't know what Jordan knew, or didn't know. I got what I came for, and I don't care about that nerd. Anyway, me and my boys kept queuing and one fateful night, in the hallowed Arathi Basin we fought them again. Their leader whose life was ripe with emotional pain from his recent breakup was absolutely waylaid by my team's synergy, strategy and skill. Our Priest, Henry, never even joined the game.
We crushed them by 500 points, 9v10. With two healers.
Of course, they still talked trash that one of their members was bad, or something. It wasn't their A team, yadda yadda. They were actually streaming during the event and were planning out these big strategies revolving around the 9v10s.
I have more pictures if anyone wants them - a lot more. I don't know what more I can do to prove this story is true, but you'll know it's true. Anyone who knows Bailamos will know this story is completely true. If you're reading this, and you sympathize with me and anyone else who has ever witnessed the throne of this game being taken over by not the best, but just who is left: please, copy and paste this, spread this story, save this in the annals of World of Warcraft history. Tell all who will listen how quickly fake champions can lose their titles, prestige and status.
Perhaps you might have noticed throughout my career that I, like Led Zeppelin, have been inspired by Lord of the Rings. You might have even noticed that my avatar is now Gandalf the White. Because I, like all the legends of yesteryear, am moving on. I just wanted the satisfaction of dismounting false king before I, like Gandalf, move on now to the Gray havens - the undying lands reserved for legends.
And to you, Bailamos: you're merely a placeholder; wasting away, playing a game whose expiration has long since come and gone. Authority is not given to you to deny the return of the king, steward. Just remember every time you say you're the best, someone crushed you under their weight with ease, while you had superior numbers and odds.
That's all I want: for you to remember that.
Get crushed, weakling.
That is all.