Jump to content


Member Since 29 Sep 2009
Offline Last Active May 14 2016 04:47 AM

#4575375 Pretty good post on PvP by Harland

Posted Lolflay on 12 April 2016 - 11:08 AM

View PostMontyx, on 11 April 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

I don't understand how there are people who actually get confused by this game. It isn't rocket science. If people are seriously that ignorant and easily confused by abilities then they shouldn't have been playing to begin with.

I'm by no means an average WoW player - 10x+ glad titles behind me and a history of raiding in a few top 50 guilds. Yet I was completely lost for the first week or two in WoW in regards to basic combat abilities ( kept using my staff to kill mobs instead of casting spells on mobs ), and I was lost for much longer on the basic concepts of what you have to do in an MMO ( for example, I thought having "of the Eagle" gear as a Warlock was the best in Vanilla ). Oh, and I also grinded to level 60 without doing quests at all in Vanilla, maybe the occasional dungeon when someone whispered me or I saw someone advertise in /1. Granted, I did come from a FPS background with not having played a single RPG game up until WoW, but still.. This game used to be fairly complex back in the day. Hell, get a new player a portal to some place and chances are he'll be lost as fuck for a while until he discovers he has a Hearthstone or something.

So no, getting into WoW wasn't/isn't easy. Don't knock it down, it was a fairly complex game both to start playing, and to start playing properly on the end game. However, simplifying the early game isn't so much of an issue tbh... The problem is that they started trivializing the endgame ( duh, as we all know ). Actually, even an awful expansion like MoP had it's skillpeaks that were kind of hard to reach - playing an Affliction Warlock properly with all the snapshotting and other shit was super hard ( notice I said "PROPERLY" - this isn't to say that a scrub couldn't make a lock and simply soulswap dots around and pollute good results )

If you simplify the endgame, you take the appeal of MMO's away - aka, you stop hooking people on the game. This first started in Wrath when you could get geared up for ICC/earlier raids by simply spamming those ICC heroics, suddenly the average guy had nearly the same gear as someone who raided beforehand. Fuck, I was in a world top 20 guild during Ulduar, and I had nearly BiS gear ( full t8.5, all the trinkets etc etc ) - I stopped raiding after that tier, and I wanted to raid again in ICC - suddenly I see a guy who has better gear than me from crafting+new ICC heroics+normal ToC10 - what the fuck?

What they need to do is make people play tiers again. Like, I'm talking TBC style. There's no going into SSC unless you've completed Karazhan/Gruul. There's no going into Sunwell unless you've finished Black Temple. And they need to make people work for gear again. <- this is especially easy right now considering PvP gear is gone in next expansion, meaning that Blizz won't have to worry about people grabbing PvP gear from vendors and being able to enter raids immediately. Also, "normal" version of a tier 2 raid SHOULDN'T drop better loot than "heroic" version of tier 1 raid.

Also, they really fucked up with the dungeons. I remember back in TBC - EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER had to grind heroics because from heroics came the BiS trinkets ( Icon of the Silver Crescent <3 ) that were BiS for the major part of the expansion, and came other pieces of gear that were, if not BiS, then nearly BiS, even for BT/Sunwell raiders. Current dungeons - herp derp, some blues and apexis shards lulz. What are Apexis shards used for again? I don't know, and I played WoD seriously during Highmaul/BRF/WoD S1 and I'm playing it casually now in S3.

But alas, they'll never make the game harder again, simply because that's not their goal with the game anymore. Timesinks aren't popular with the current generations - they're the generation that are used to buying a game from Android market and then dump 100 dollars on it just to have it completed. This is the business model Blizz is aiming at, and they can suck my fat cock and my hairy balls for it.

#4573734 legion comp variety feedback

Posted Nahj on 06 April 2016 - 09:41 AM

Decided to make a giant post about potential comp variety and melee/caster/healer comps in general on alpha forum if anyone agrees with it and wants to support/add to it.


#4572168 Wich abilities should be pruned?

Posted Dills on 30 March 2016 - 10:45 PM

Wyvern Sting, Binding Shot, Bursting Shot (Dragons Breath for hunters, it's just dodgeable and has a smaller cone) Posthaste (sprint), current itteration of Freezing Arrow on Alpha (Instead of working just like wotlk version i.e aim>shoot>then the trap has 2 second arm time, it's Wyvern Sting 2.0: Has a 30 second CD, it's fire and forget, it lasts 2 seconds longer than Wyvern, and not only that but anyone that's near the target that you freezing arrowed also gets hit by it's effect.), current version of Aspect of the Cheetah on Alpha (It's a 3 min cd, sprints you for 3 seconds, then it's back to the 30%).

Hunters should have scatter trapping, and silencing shot, as well as other utilities and tools to kite melee(like how MM used to use snakes for entrapment, or just pet utilities), but those should be active effects with risks/rewards attached to them. Everything originally listed is your current hunter utility on Alpha, and all of it is just fire and forget, and feels nothing like how a hunter should feel. Hunter to me is high risk, and high reward, but the way it currently plays is low risk, low reward, and it just feels like I have copies of other classes spells, but not only that those abilities are just silly.

To add onto this, things like Asphixiate, Stormbolt, Shockwave for non prot warriors, and 30 second FoJ are all mechanics I've found are very unhealthy for PvP. All of those are short CD ranged stuns for melee classes, and are pretty much unavoidable. Not to mention, all 3 of those classes basically have the same ability, which are the actual things that cause homogenization and are things that would have been okay to prune going from MoP>WoD, instead of just taking everything out of those classes that felt fun (Arms warriors losing almost every button rofl), yet leaving this horrible abilities in.

What I feel blizzard isn't getting the point from is that in all honesty having CCs is fine. Sometimes having potentially long CC chains is ok. But it all depends on the risks and rewards attached to it, the opportunity costs to use those CCs, and the amount of counterplay allowed for it. I believe things like scatter>trapping was removed because the CC chain was potentially really long, but in reality there was way more you could do to prevent scatter trapping - and therefore the longer CC chains, than there is now with current instant Trapping in WoD, or in Legion with just having wyvern or freezing arrow - both of which are fire and forget, your enemy can't really avoid, and isn't fun to deal with on both sides.

It's not fun for the hunter because you DNAW, and it's not fun to fight them because you can't do anything to prevent this. Mechanics like Stormbolts/Asphix/FoJ all fell in similar categories as fire and forget abilities that have no cost to them, are pretty much unavoidable, and also don't feel very fun for both sides of it.

Like in all honesty, I think anyone could agree to an extent that pruning isn't necessarily a bad thing, and going from MoP>WoD it didn't seem like a bad idea either. The issue is what abilities have been pruned, especially when abilities with unhealthy mechanics are the ones that stayed. So basically, any time anyone is giving feedback, I feel this is the most important thing to get across. The issue most people have with pruning, is that long loved and really fun and flavorful abilities have mostly been removed, while things that are not are the only things that have stayed really, taking away tons of depth in the game.

#4570506 Non-damage buttons are missing

Posted Konjunktur on 18 March 2016 - 01:22 PM

I agree with pretty much every single word that has been said in this thread. I also find it pretty hilarious how on the EU forums Blizzard hasn't even opened a Legion PvP Feedback section, considering that's where the largest PvP crowd is located.

On topic:

It's rediculous how pretty much every single spec is being reduced to a damage bot. Like Feral doesn't even have Cyclone anymore, the most iconic spell in PVP for the class since the inception of arenas. Literally everything that made the spec fun since wotlk/cata/mop has been taken away and nullified by wod/legion. Similar things are happening to a lot of specs, most of them actually!

Sure the damage rotations might be slightly more fun now than ever before, but what does that matter for if everything you do is just stand there and smash damage? In a PvP setting no one's going to like that in the long run, in PvP it's the other things, the non-damage things, the things that make you stand out that makes it fun. If you're pressing 1-2-3-4 or 1-2-proc-2-4-5 to do optimal damage plays a minimal role in that, it certainly doesn't make up for everything we're all losing.

And Blizzards' defence is obviously "but almost everything is there as a talent option, and we even made new CLASS FANTASY spells!". The only issue with that (just as Nadagast said) is that you can only pick 1 talent per row so instead of having say 15 abilities/passives as we used to pre-pruning/classfantasy we now have access to only 5 at a time.

On top of that they're straight up removing a lot of good old X abilities (as Dillypoo described them in the thread) and replacing them with new plain stupid Y (CLASS FANTASY SPELLS rofl) abilities. A lot of times they don't even replace them at all, and when people ask why a certain ability was removed/replaced all they can say do is mumble something about 'class fantasy' which is really just an alias for 'further pruning'. Because they can't really shout pruning again like they did in WoD because people will instantly realise what's going on.

View PostDizzeeyo, on 18 March 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

exDee at people that thought Legion would be anything other then WoD 2.0

honestly the most amusing thing is that they don't dare to use the word pruning any more - instead we get CLASS FANTASY as the indirect justification for every single class in the game losing half their spellbook

It's not often I agree with you, but holy crap I thought the exact same thing as soon as I saw the first class descriptions / patch notes.

Pretty much every single delete of non-dmg abilities they've done in Legion, either through making it share with some other crucial ability or by straight up removing it - have been wrong. With very few exceptions, mostly fixing issues that we're brought with the first wave of pruning (WoD).

If there's to be any hope what so ever for PVP in this game going forward we need to rally, we need to show Blizzard with a united voice that we absolutely need more non-rotational abilities in the game like CC/Stances/Buffs/Hurricane/Spell Reflection/Grounding&WindShear etc. It probably won't happen, but one can wish right...

I really like JimJims suggestion, +1

#4559529 Cheating in arena

Posted Velcaa on 08 January 2016 - 11:53 PM

aj the one and only place that ive seen such an obsession with using what country youre from as a blanket insult

you're retarded regardless where you're from if the only insult you can come up with is stating what country you're from

come up with something a bit more original

#4563672 Team Method's Cdew, Snutz, Smexxin win GCD GPL Winter Finals. Drama ensues.

Posted Phaelle on 05 February 2016 - 05:41 AM


Read at the risk of your own fucking sanity

#4562442 Legion's Dalaran sewers world pvp.

Posted Naraga on 28 January 2016 - 06:31 PM

Sounds like a Gurubashi arena to me. Hardly worthy of being called world pvp.

True world pvp cannot be designed as a "special pvp zone" as Blizzard has kept trying every expansion again. True world pvp only exists when PvE players have to travel out in the world to gather mats, do quests, get attuned etc. in zones where there are no guards to protect them.

#4562019 Warning; chat manipulation

Posted Infernion on 26 January 2016 - 12:37 AM

View PostNicholaes92, on 25 January 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

Does anyone actually care about this drama stuff though?  Can we have a new thread of someone examining this for me?

No lets have another thread about you getting engaged with your girlfriend, we care so much more about that

#4561014 [Bug] Sacred Shield.

Posted Jim_Jim on 18 January 2016 - 07:22 PM

... is like Genesis, not affected by the pvp rule of 150% crit :

Posted Image

Oh, and by the way, if you mind control a holypal when the Beacon of Light is on his mate, Saved by the Skill will proc on the pally... infinitely, until the MC is cancelled.

#4557600 Legion Rogue Preview

Posted Malladon on 27 December 2015 - 11:36 PM

View PostKroyfel, on 16 December 2015 - 02:21 AM, said:

Shadowstep back for sub according to mmo-champion along with some other changes:

  • Prey on the Weak Assassination, Subtlety: Enemies disabled with your Kidney Shot, Cheap Shot, Gouge, Sap or Sap take 10% increased damage from all sources. Outlaw: Enemies disabled with your Gouge, or Blind take 10% increased damage from all sources. Rogue - Level 75 Talent.
PvP Talents
  • Shiv (NYI) (New) Stabs the target with your off-hand, causing (10% of weapon damage) Nature damage, and applies a deadly neurotoxin. The neurotoxin causes any ability used to incur a 3 sec cooldown on that ability. Assassination Rogue - Tier 4 PvP Talent. Melee range. Instant. 45 sec cooldown.
Assassination & Subtlety
  • Shadowstep Step through the shadows to appear behind your target and gain 70% movement speed for 2 sec. Rogue - Assassination Subtlety Spec. 25 yd range. Instant.
  • Nightblade (Assassination) Finishing move that infects the target with shadowy energy, dealing Shadow damage over time and reducing movement speed by 50%.causing attacks against the target to reduce movement speed by 50% for 8 sec.
  • Nightblade (Outlaw, Subtlety) Finishing move that infects the target with shadowy energy, dealing Shadow damage over time and reducing movement speed by 50%.causing attacks against the target to reduce movement speed by 50% for 8 sec.
  • Shadow Dance Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to activate Stealth. For 3 sec, this Stealth Shadow Dance for 3 sec. Shadow Dance allows access to all Stealth-based abilities, but will not break when you autoattack or take damage. When this effect occurs, a Shadow Decoy will appear nearby, confusing your enemies. Rogue - Subtlety Spec. Rogue - Subtlety Spec.

Shadowstep being in the mix is wonderful

I love shadowdance right now but I'll say this---having it as a passive makes things feel much more like in TBC/Wrath where every kidney shot mattered. Rather than "we're going to burst every one minute, get your shit ready", every Kidney Shot can be a real kill opportunity.

If that design philosophy is followed everywhere regarding PVP, and maybe now the new cooldown mechanic for sub will be the return of shadow blades... I think that's actually a really good thing. I miss kills happening mid game because of good... idk mix-up play? There used to be something said for being able to do damage when your cooldowns WEREN'T up, this implementation of shadow dance supports that. I'm curious, at least

#4551225 Legion - Every Man for Himself

Posted roastys on 09 December 2015 - 04:18 AM

haha dks got another trinket!!!!11

#4545723 Legion is the end

Posted Call Me Teranaye on 27 November 2015 - 10:10 PM

Wait and see,tbh i think it will be fun maybe not in the long term but im gonna enjoy the first few months (feels like the game is totally re-done) and all the variety in comps w/ demon hunter sv melee & so on.
for now just delete wow and come back 1 or 2 month before this season ends.

#4543911 ....legion? :'(

Posted Nahj on 24 November 2015 - 02:48 AM

View PostLloix, on 23 November 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

Rogue gonna be imba as fuck come legion.
It doesn't matter the strength.

Rogue's are crying because on paper sub is going to be a combat rogue/warrior terms of simplicity. For most of the people playing sub still it's worthy of quitting the game over if even half of this design concept goes live, due to losing what they feel is one of the last unique specs left in the game to casualization.

You'd be whining too if your spec was losing 10+ abilities like step, prep, garrote, hemo, shiv, gouge, blind, slice, rupture (gets a replacement), smoke bomb (talent), recup and shroud. IDC about recup/shroud being purged self heal mechanics are dumb and most mop mechanics like shroud/gateway are stupid anyway.

Shadowstrike, dance being passive and most of the rogue talents on the legion calculator all being passive is very anti fun. Judging from how MoP/WoD beta's went it's actually important to complain as early as possible seeing as next to nothing changed throughout the entire WoD beta where even though people were complaining it went through mostly unchanged.

Something doesn't have to be OP to have fun, people just want to have buttons to press instead of stupid passives. Even if the pvp talents/artifact talents gave us 3-4 buttons back instead of more passives left and right we'd still be losing twice as many abilities as we gained.

#4543275 ....legion? :'(

Posted Friedkitteh on 22 November 2015 - 08:33 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 22 November 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

based on what we have currently?

deep freeze removed
invisibility removed
talent trees where we will pick one talent 99% of the time in every single situation
ice block as a talent LOL
cone of cold made frost only - arcane's only snare is slow and fire has no snares
blazing speed merged with cauterize, shares a tier with ice block so not like its a choice anyway hehe

do you want more or will that do for now?

1. It's in the db? http://beta.wowdb.co...572-deep-freeze
2. Not that huge
3. I don't believe this will be the case for Frost (only looked on Frost)
4. So what? It might not be the best choice every game
5. Frost Spell for Frost, Arcane Spell for Arcane - Don't see the issue
6. Mage mobility was fucking broken with Blink+Blazing anyways - Good.

Give me all you got :)

#4543269 ....legion? :'(

Posted washboardabsx on 22 November 2015 - 08:23 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 22 November 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

based on what we have currently?

deep freeze removed
invisibility removed
talent trees where we will pick one talent 99% of the time in every single situation
ice block as a talent LOL
cone of cold made frost only - arcane's only snare is slow and fire has no snares
blazing speed merged with cauterize, shares a tier with ice block so not like its a choice anyway hehe

do you want more or will that do for now?

Wow mages might actually be glass cannons instead of Gods. What terrible ideas blizz.