zzz expansion wars
BC was only enjoyable in arena if you were like one of 6 specs, and even then the game was going to devolve into cancerous drain matches. There's a reason AT BC died. No one wanted to play what BC arena had become. BC has much better fundamentals and systematic features than cata/mop, but arena itself in BC is completely shrouded by nostalgia. AT wrath has been and is more popular than the BC realm was and the Cata realm (probably combined) for a reason. Almost all of the people who used to deify BC either changed their minds when they went back and played it, or they got past the nostalgia. BC had a good system. Wrath improved the system and made tons of quality of life changes. Cata changed pvp class fundamentals entirely, and thus had a more systematic change than the past 2 expansions. I personally am not too picky about balance, but I know a lot of you guys are. End game BC had worse balance than any of the end games of any of the expansions easily.
Cakesz, on 04 March 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:
What melee class was exactly? The only reason DKs weren't 'amazing' was because of spell cleaves, and every melee suffered vs that. Outside Prot, Prot/Ret and Dbl healer teams, there weren't really that many different comps. LSD etc just shit on melee/caster/healer with ease.
Dks weren't shitting on anything though. They were just annoying. Their defensive cds did not need "compensation" through the improvement of other classes' tools. Arms was better in general.
It started in WotLK when Blizzard gave every CD in the game to DKs and so they had to give other abilities to other classes to counter that, instead of just removing the retarded shit from DKs.
Dks weren't amazing in late wrath seasons, and they didn't have to give other classes more defensives to compensate. See season 8 where dks could die relatively easily while most classes only had 1 defensive cd. . . in fact dks were just average, and many specs did not have defensive cds. In fact, the two specs that people complained about the most (destro/ele) both had no defensive cds whatsoever. I would still say the cancerous # of defensive cds did not begin until cata because wrath very much did not revolve around limitless defensive cds. Defensive cds are absolutely okay but there is a point in which there are too many. Would I have preferred if dks were designed with fewer? Absolutely, but I still don't think the fate of the game's direction was reliant on compensating for the # of cds dks had. I thought dispersion was a good addition to the game and combined two issues into one ability with a twist. Wotlk dks are also pretty easy to kill compared to fucking cata dks since the self heals are negligible in wrath. Cata was when I had to stop playing 2's because there were just too many defensives and self heals. Abilities like recuperate and lock evo made the bracket terrible.
I will say that there was a great influx of new abilities in wrath, but I think that most of them were needed and were quality of life changes. BC laid out the fundamentals while wrath refined the game and made it run a lot smoother. Recall that almost nothing was viable in end game bc arena, so adding new spells was actually rational. Almost all specs were actually flat out missing valuable tools. Let's take ele shaman for example. Ele shaman was very bad in BC because it relied on one school, had no defensives, and had no cc or control. Wrath addressed this by adding root totem, stoneclaw absorb, thunderstorm, hex, replacing ES with wind shear, lava burst, and passive astral shift. They addressed every issue the spec had basically by adding abilities, but none of the abilities were absurd. Almost all of the added cata abilities were completely unnecessary "fun!" spells and disgusting. Then, the game had to be balanced around such spells, which just created a snowball effect. I say almost because there were some added spells that were just like w/e okay have at it hoss. Even some of the abilities that weren't op like spiritwalker's grace were just why? Such unneeded additions.
That being said, I do concede that there were added abilities in wrath as well that they could have not put in like bladestorm, but there's not nearly as many of them as patch 4.x and beyond.
I disagree, I remember facing top level shamans on the old TRs and spamming tremor while turning made it impossible to smack-fear, even if you feared first. It surely was useful against skilled players as well, but the totem itself is pretty hard to balance, I think right now it's pretty good - breaks fear, but has a long cd.
how was it impossible when you had 3 seconds to fear--->kill