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#4364995 Having a discussion with a friend about when 3.0 ret pallies became OP

Posted rageTG on 20 January 2015 - 12:14 AM

The patch was after season ended, but pretty sure it allowed random rets to get 2200 shoulders etc even though titles were done.

#4269250 Items scaling to 710

Posted Knaittiz on 19 November 2014 - 09:42 AM

tooltip bug

#3899018 Killing Spree is now single target in 5.4. Will this be the rise of combat ro...

Posted Capers on 12 June 2013 - 11:25 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 12 June 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

I don't think anything, if you want to think that I am trying to speak for "every" rogue, go ahead. I never once said "All rogues hate sub". Here let me do something for you so you can understand me better:

8 million subscribers as of March 2013, World of Warcraft
There's 11 Classes in this game, if we were to take 11 and divide it by 8, that means 1.3million (This is just an assumption and not actual fact since I really don't know the numbers) players most likely play a rogue.

Now let's look at what A LOT means:
A lot: very much; a great deal; to a large extent; frequently; often.

So by me saying A LOT, I am referring to the amount of rogues within the game (A lot can be anywhere from 20 to millions). I never specified how many and that doesn't mean just this site but in general. If I wanted to specify AJ. I would of easily said "A lot of rogues on AJ"; I just mentioned A LOT because there is a huge amount of rogues that I'm pretty sure prefer Mut/Combat over Sub for PvP. I can keep going, but you're just probably going to try and argue with me anyways.

You're just riding the train, you should stop now.

MVP many of your posts are helpful, but your ego is starting to get pretty big man. Gotta get down off that high horse.

#3898980 Killing Spree is now single target in 5.4. Will this be the rise of combat ro...

Posted Elorxo on 12 June 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 12 June 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

If you actually look and read around, there's a lot of rogues who just don't want to play Sub anymore for PvP. I'm not talking for the whole community, if I was, I would of used the term ALL ROGUES. I'm speaking for those who just do not like Sub anymore. Please, before you come down on me, fix your reading comprehension.

stop being so elitist cos you made a mutilate pvp guide

#3895723 Meta gems for subtlety

Posted Krumme on 06 June 2013 - 10:06 AM

The following is a mathematical comparison of the two gems (Tyrannical Primal Diamond and Agile Primal Diamond) set on determining which proves to be better overall for a rogue. There is very little doubt that the Agile gem provides more damage in every scenario, but the Tyrannical gem has 775 resilience, and it is the total benefits which are being weighed.

For the purpose of this comparison, we assume an average crit rate of 30%. A rogue in full 496 PvP gear has somewhere between 23% and 25% crit, but factoring in temporary agility procs, the 5% stat buff and 5% crit buff, the average crit rate for a rogue will probably approach 30%.

Based on that, we'll begin by determining the value of 3% increased damage on crits. Assuming 100 hits each dealing 1.000 damage, we allow 30 of them to crit for double damage. Thus we have 130.000 in total, with 60.000 of that being from crits. This means 46,15% of the total damage comes from crits. A 3% increase to this nets a total damage increase of 1,38%.

Next comes the 665 PvP Power, which on paper is a 1,66% increase in damage, but as you'll already have a lot of PvP Power from your gear, this number does not accurately represent the actual gain. A rogue in full 496 PvP gear has 35.08%, but if using the weapon chain with 600 PvP Power, the number would be 36.58%. Since some rogues are humans and use a pure agility trinket, they won't have the PvP Power from the medallion. Based on this, we assume an average of 36% PvP Power. Dealing 137,66 damage instead of 136 is an increase of 1,22%.

From this we can deduce that the 3% crit damage bonus is roughly 13% more valuable than 665 PvP Power, and so we can regard it as being equal to 752 PvP Power.

As far as we've come with math, some difficulties present themselves in determining the exact damage increase granted by 216 agility, as it depends on your present levels of crit, haste, mastery, PvP Power, which buffs / procs you have up at a given time and so on. Nonetheless we can approximate the total value of each gem by comparing what we've concluded so far.

216 agility
752 PvP Power


775 resilience
665 PvP Power

once reduced becomes

216 agility
87 PvP Power


775 resilience

While there is of course some room for personal interpretation, it seems the Tyrannical gem is better by quite a large margain. Assuming no resilience other than the chest enchant, you'll have 65.3% damage reduction. Adding 775 resilience from the gem brings you to 66.42% damage reduction, and as a result you'll be taking 3,23% less damage than before. Prior to 5.3 most rogues had resilience in every socket, sometimes even ignoring socket bonuses. While the gems were halved, the relative value of 1 resilience to 1 agility is largely unchanged, and if 320 resilience is better than 160 agility, 775 resilience is most certainly better than 216 agility even when factoring in 87 PvP Power.

If your only concern is damage, the Agile gem is better. It becomes slightly better when you have procs or buffs that increase your crit chance, and slightly worse when none of those are active. RNG will heavily influence the value of it. Not only the percentage of your attacks that crit matters, but also which attacks. If your offhand auto-attack crits for 7k instead of your Eviscerate for 90k, there will obviously be some discrepancy. Such is the nature of WoW's combat system, and more accurate predictions are difficult to make.

Conclusion / TLDR:
Tyrannical Primal Diamond is a lot better than Agile Primal Diamond unless survivability is irrelevant to you.

#3896831 Meta gems for subtlety

Posted Krumme on 09 June 2013 - 07:59 AM

View PostFuguFish, on 08 June 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Huh? I'm pretty sure the agile gem is better. Sinister calling multiplies all agi you have by 1.3 so the agile metagem has an effective total of 281 agility. Agi also passively gives crit too, albeit very little. Rogues are ridiculously squishy and 775 resi won't stop you from dying either.

By your logic, it would actually be 295 agility because of leather spec, but to make it simple, look at how rogues gemmed last patch.

They chose 320 resilience gems over 160 agility. If we use your method, they chose 320 resilience over 218 agility. That must mean resilience is worth at least 46% more point for point than resilience. For 295 agility to be better than 775 resilience, agility would have to be 162% better than resilience point for point.

Remember that only resilience gems - and not the resilience stat itself - was nerfed in 5.3.

You're right that, in most situations, 3% damage reduction won't make the difference between you living or dying. But in most situations, 295 agility (which in my estimation is a lot less than a 3% damage increase) won't make the difference between your opponent living or dying either. You have to look at the total level of damage and survivability that your gearing brings you to, and I believe I've shown that almost no matter how you look at it, that total will always be better when you use the Tyrannical gem.

#3892908 Discipline Priest Basic Guide

Posted Nokilolz on 29 May 2013 - 07:57 PM

Saltyz Discipline Priest Guide


Hey guys my name is Phil and I've been playing wow since season 3 back in The Burning Crusade but more of a raider. I never took arena to serious til end of season 5 going into season 6 playing only rogue. I achieved gladiator season 6 on rogue playing RMP. I decided to switch mains to priest during wotlk as I enjoyed the playstyle. I got Gladiator on disc priest during season 10, as well as resto shaman season 10 and 11. ( I used Jonte's guide as a outline to write my own, so shout out to jonte!)

Talents :

Tier 1-

Psyfiend - Right now with tremor being such a short CD, have more fears more often is a really good thing, can also be used to eat traps vs hunters if timed right ( Hydra skill points).

-Alternatives- Dominate Mind – I choose this a lot in 2s more so than 3s. You can use dominate mind for long CC chains with your partners such as a hunter, feral, or mage. You can potentially use Dominate Mind to set up a 30+ sec long CC chain to set up a kill!

-Alternatives- Void Tendrils – Of all three this is the one I use less, It has it's situations where it could be potentially used such as vs melee cleaves when your playing a comp that doesn't have heavy snare peels such as something without a mage.

Tier 2

Body and Soul – This is the clear cut choice for this Tier now that Phantasm got the nerf where it doesn't make you untargetable anymore. The combination of Body and Soul is really good with the Tier 4 talent Spectral Guise to set up sneak fears and potentially avoid CC!

Tier 3 -

Mindbender – I use this talent majority of the time because of the short CD as a resource of getting more mana back, and also because you can also align it with your partners to burst damage. The cooldown of Mindbender being 1 minute compared to shadowfiend's 3 mins opens up the possibility for you play a little bit more offensive with your team being able to use more globals on offensive dispels, rather than playing Cataclysm style sit 40 yards and heal.

From Darkness, Comes Light – I've never really been a fan of RNG talents or spells that rely on luck or random events to occur so having a proc chance heal at only 15% doesn't really interest me enough to choose it over such a talent like Mindbender.

Solace / InsanityThis talent is really useless for discipline priests, and never bothered to even play with it.

Tier 4 -

Spectral GuiseThis is the only choice for this tier than I would ever choose, it's TOO good to not select otherwise. You can use Spectral Guise in so many situations that it's such a valuable talent. Spectral Guise gives you that brief invisibility to where you can use the combination of Spectral Guise & Body and Soul to sneak into the enemy teams for fears that could have been preventable otherwise. Not only can you use Spectral Guise offensively but you can do some creative things as well such as invising right before a hunter might scatter you so you can get your image to eat the trap for you, or use Spectral Guise to juke the enemy player to avoid a potential CC such as a priest running at you to fear you. I would never not take this talent over the other two in any situation.

Tier 5

Power Infusion – Just like Tier 4, this is the only choice I would ever take out of this tier. Power infusion does so much for a disc priest offensively, and defensively that it's impossible to not take. Using power infusion offensively can be used for faster offensively dispels, or even faster defensively dispel on your team mate to continue pressure. Defensively this talent is just as good, because getting off faster heals is just as important, even though disc priest casted heals are weak and we rely more on Shields, Prayer of mending, renew, and Spirit Shell for most of our healing in the current state.

Tier 6 -

Divine Star – This choice is rather obviously now too because of the mana cost alone. Anything that costs 20k+ mana in arena is going be very hard to want to choose to use frequently. Divine Star does heal in a forward direction in front of you so you can use it to heal more than one target at a time which is very useful vs dots and spread pressure teams. It's the only viable choice from the last and final tier.


Major Glyphs:
  • Glyph of Penance – This is a new glyph that came out with MOP which gave penance a cool utility of being able to be channeled while moving. You can use this to juke interrupts easier, and also heal behind line of sight starting the casting in the open and then walk behind the pillar.
  • Glyph of Mass Dispel – This glyph is a priority vs teams that have shield immunities such as Mages and Paladins, with the recent nerf in 5.3 in order to remove their shields with mass dispel you need this glyph to do so.
  • Glyph of Shadow Word: Death – This glyph is as one of the ways priests can get out of CC based on using Shadow Word Death at the correct time to where the dmg from death breaks the CC on you just as it lands.
  • (Alternative Glyph) Glyph of Prayer of Mending – If your not fighting a team where shadow word death actually can come to use of breaking CC, I would swap that glyph out for this one. It really does increase your heals from Prayer of Mending to a noticeable amount, such as trying to live vs a team like enhance feral if their swapping to you.

Minor Glyphs :
Honestly there isn't any minor glyphs that change any gameplay for pvp, all of the minor glyphs are more RP based and visual changers, so choose whichever you enjoy! :)

Gemming / Reforge / Enchants

Red Gems: +160 Intellect
Yellow Gems: If your trying to match for bonus + 80 int + 160 Mastery, if not and your going for best in slot stat use +160 Intellect
Blue Gems: +80 Intellect + 160 Spirit
Meta Gem: Use the Burning Primal Diamond ( +216 Intellect + 3% Critical Effect) meta until you can get the Tyrannical Primal Diamond ( +665 pvp power + 775 pvp resilience)

As a discipline priest your most valuable stat priority is spirit, majority if not all the pieces of gear that you will get has spirit on them so reforging is very limited after that. I like to reforge pieces that has second stats along with spirit to mastery to maximize the use of your shields, so your reforge priories should go a little like this;
Sprit > Mastery > Haste > Critical Strike

The enchants that you choose are the generic healing enchants that pretty much all Resto / Holy / Disc talents choose. Enchants like:
-Greater Crane Wing Inscription
-Enchant Chest – Glorious Stats
-Enchant Wrists – Super Intellect
Greater Pearlescent Spellthread
Enchant boots – Pandaren's Step
Enchant weapon – Jade Spirit
Enchant Gloves – Superior Mastery

Common Comps to play as Disc Priest as of 5.3

Priest Hunter Death Knight- The goal of the priest in most of these comps are relatively the same, in the beginning build up your spirit shells on your partners so they can create the most pressure possible without having to worry about falling behind early and playing defensive. Try to build pressure early with your team with offensive dispels and fears ASAP.
Priest Hunter Ret -
Priest Hunter Feral -
Priest Ele shaman mage – I think this is going to be a popular comp coming out soon, i've seen people like Jahmilli and Porkz play this comp very succesfully, and will become more seen.

Workable Comps -
Priest Mage Rogue – I feel like this comp if played right is relatively always viable and fun to play. It is by far my favorite to play when it's very strong for sure!
Priest Mage Feral – Just like RMP this comp is viable majority of the time, and can be played as a tier 2 comp.

Key-binds -
I would never recommend anyone to copy anyone’s key-binds. The key-binds that you create should be comfortable for you and you alone. Having key-binds that you can comfortably press without having to think about all the time is what makes you react faster in every situation!

I know I’m not a well known player or a top tier player along the likes of Sodah, Hydra, Fuzionn, Zunniyaki, or Mackenziee but I tried to release a guide that's easy to read for any beginning disc priest that's interested in getting into the class like I was when I was watching hydra and those players back in the day. I hope to use my previous gladiator knowledge and constant gladiator rankings to try and supply some knowledge in the community through the guides and forums!

If you have any interest please check out my stream at www.twitch.tv/saltyz


#3892618 How to play Mutilate.

Posted AcerMVP on 28 May 2013 - 08:45 PM

How to play Mutilate rogue in 5.3

There are a few of you asking me questions in my inbox, in-game and here on AJ. These questions include: "What rotations do you do?, What poisons do you use? Why this over this?" And so on. Here is a general guide on how I, Mvp the rogue plays mutilate. You may change any of the suggestions I have made to better fit your play style or hear your responses in regards to my guide. I understand a lot of you think that Sub is the best for PVP because of all the control you have. While this is some what true, Mut also has it's amazing advantages.

A lot of players haven't played mutilate in arenas because they have not figured out on how to play it. Here are the main points I will be making in this guide:

1) Talent Specialization
2) Glyphs
3) Poisons
4) Gems/Reforging/Enchanting
5) Rotations

1) Talent Specialization:
Talent Specialization is something that anybody can make up to their own style/spec. It gives you the freedom of changing what is needed before the arena starts due to certain comps. Here is a quick talent tree of what I am using: http://www.wowhead.c...talent#r!md|Isu


Posted Image
The first tier for rogues gives you special abilities in your stealth. As assassination, I used to go with Shadow Focus due to the energy regen for assassination is terrible, but I realized how to fix this. Most sub players use this and I would like for more assassination rogues to as well. The reason why I went with Subterfuge is because it allows you to be able to use more stealth abilities after your initial opener (We all already know this, since most of us already play with it).


Posted Image
The second tier is more or less to take in less damage/stopping damage. I chose Combat Readiness because of it's utilities against melee/dps teams creating a "Wall" for us rogues. If you were facing caster teams, of course you would use Deadly Throw.


Posted Image
Almost the same as the second tier. Takes in less damage/gives health. I prefer elusiveness because who wouldn't want 30% less damage all around.


Posted Image
Now comes the real fun, this talent with Subterfuge is one of the most used talent tiers in the game as a rogue at the moment. If you already know how to play this as a Sub rogue, then assassination openers will be a breeze for you. This is probably the best thing that has happened for assassination. Cloak and Dagger allows you to be able to use your abilities 25 yards away. Which makes Shadowstep useless and burst of speed. Especially with how assassination works. Assassination is all about bleeds/poisons. I will get into the rotations a bit later, but the reason why you pick this over ShS or Burst of Speed is because of the freedom you have to CC/Bleed up your opponents. This ability alone will bring back the necessary CC that you need from Sub into Assassination.


Posted Image
This tier really depends on what you're playing. For 2's/duels, I prefer playing with Dirty Tricks over Prey because of the ability of being able to blind over your DoTs. Also, gouge is now 0 energy, which allows you to spam one mutilate the very most, but for threes, I still prefer of Prey on the Weak combined with Tricks, it does a large amount of damage boost to your partners.


Posted Image
This last tier is all based on the kind of opponents you are facing. I see a lot of rogues using Marked for Death, while it is a good talent, it's terrible for Assassination. Reasons? Marked for death may give you an instant 5 combo points, but assassination generates combo points fairly easy. You may want to save these combo points for your Recup/Ruptures. Which is why Anticipation is amazing. Allows the use of your combo points where it's needed. I mostly use anticipation for melee/dps teams. I usually choose ST for caster teams because it's a troll move and it hits harder than icelances which mages usually cry about.

2) Glyphs:
I use a rotation of these five:


Glyph of CoS: dmg reduction vs Melee Cleaves


Glyph of Stealth: For quicker stealth's to be able to restart my openers/cc's), people ask why Stealth? In arena's it does help a lot because as soon as you use your first ability, stealth goes on CD meaning you have 3 seconds to try and get behind a wall and with this glyph, it allows you to be able to get that re-stealth quicker. So you can Vanish, open, hide and gain the stealth quicker rather than being Faerie Fired through the fucking walls while waiting for stealth to come off cooldown.


Glyph Of Garrote: That extra silence helps, especially since you will be mass spamming garrote anyways.


Glype of Shadow Walk: Against other rogues. Assassination will destroy a sub rogue if he gets the opener.


Glyph Of Feint: Against caster teams. Most caster teams will try and kite you, so having this will help with damage reduction.

3) Poisons:
Deadly and Mind Numbing: Why? Deadly causes a lot of damage with Mastery, you'll learn why in the next section. Mind Numbing? You as a rogue should already know. No reason to explain this one.

4) Gems/Reforging/Enchanting:

Wraithaur did some math on where we should stop chasing after mastery. 79.5% seems to be the cutoff.

View Postwraithaur, on 06 June 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

Did some more calcs with a certain level of assumption considering i don't have damage sources % so i did it just based on poison damage only. Worked out the sweet spot for Mastery being 79.5% before you start loosing too much AP and Crit from your agility gems\enchants.



Wondering what you should gem as an assassination rogue? There are three main gems for an assassination rogue. I've been messing around with how it works and I've come to realize that Agility/Mastery are the main gems needed. I am also gemming for socket bonuses.

Red slots: 80 Agility + 160 Mastery
Blue slots: 80 PvP Power + 160 Mastery
Yellow Slots: +320 Mastery

Why so much mastery you may be asking? Well, mastery affects your poison damage as assassination. At the moment, I am running with 71% mastery:

Posted Image

That is 71% more damage that I am doing with my poisons on other players. I am usually seeing between 20k - 50k deadly poison ticks. Now add this damage to mutilate, dispatch, envenom and your garrote/rupture ticks. It's a lot of damage.



Posted Image

I normally reforge anything that is not needed. These three, are the main ones and I'm still over capped with them being reforged. If your gear already has mastery on it, reforge to crit; if it doesn't have mastery, reforge to mastery. Remember to always stay at the hit cap and expertise cap for PVP. Haste doesn't have much affect unless you have SnD up.



Helm - Trololo, Blizzard removed helm enchants.

Neck - ^

Back - Superior Critical Strike

Chest - Super Stats or Resil (I prefer resil, at high rating arenas, that extra bit of resil will help)

Shirt - Nude

Tabard - It has to be pink for assassination to work.

Armwraps (Bracers) - You can either do 140 Agil or 170 Mastery. You really don't notice much of a difference in damage wise, but I see Mastery affect my poisons more of course. I usually choose mastery for my multi dotting.

Hands - Superior Mastery

Legs - Shadowleather Leg Armor

Boots - You can go either Blurred Speed (180 Agil + Speed) or Pandaren Step (170 Mastery + Speed); I choose Agil to help the damage output from Mutilate and Dispatch.

5) Rotations:

I won't be giving away all my secrets, but I will teach a few for the newer rogues that just recently changed to mutilate. I have two main keybinds/macros in my stealth bar. These two are what will  make the game a bit life changing and will make or break you playing assassination rogue.



/cast [@Arena1] Garrote

/cast [@Arena2] Garrote

/cast [@Arena3] Garrote



Normally in three's it's a bit different, sap one, and garrote the other two. Why? Because garrote automatically applies Venomous Wounds and Deadly Poison. This gives you +10 energy every Nature damage tick(Deadly Poison tick). So now you have two targets that have Dots, you're now gaining +20 energy every tick (This does not work if the person with bleeds have an asorb on them), but you're also causing huge damage by DoTs because of your mastery being so high. So you're now basically a Shadow Priest, Afflicition Warlock and all other DoT classes. Only difference is, you have three DoTs( Rupture and/or Garotte, Deadly Poison and any extra damage that comes out of Venemous Wounds).  Now you have damage all over the map.

You only need to put 1 combo point into Slice and Dice because after you envenom for the first time, your Slice and Dice automatically gets renewed.

Your opener is important because assassination openers have really nice pressure output. You can literally bring any class from 100% - 20% within the opener (No Burst). So you have to be mindful of how you play assassination and pay attention to your energy because you will run out fast with Mutilate being 55 energy. Normally openers in 3's look like this:

Sap > Arena1, Garrote > Arena2/3, CS > Kill target, SnD, Mutilate > Mutilate > Rupture. After this opening rotation, you can do anything you like, either refresh your Dots across the map or CC through out the map. Vanish > Garrote all the map or CS all the map. Depending how the game is going. Now you have the necessary CC from Sub in Mutilate because of Subterfuge/CnD.

I normally just redirect > rupture to refresh DoTs because it's just much simpler and use my vanish for their opening burst which allows me to open all over again and apply dots all over again. Assassination also has a lot of pressure output. Now with having damage scattered across the map, you can focus on your kill target.

Kill target/Burst: Vendetta/Trinket First > Shadow Blades after. Burst should only be used when you're about to do a kill. Why? Because Assassination does a lot of damage outside of it's burst anyways. On top of it, Vendetta is 2min's long and Shadow Blades is 3mins. You can trinket every minute if you want. I have these three cooldowns in a cast sequence/reset of 40 macro. Trinket being the first cast in the cast sequence.

The use of Dispatch, when dispatch does that bright thingy, use it after you use a Combo Point Quencher, it will give you a free combo point/no energy used/dmg. Spam dispatch after the person is 30% less health. Very low in energy (20) and it hits like an ambush. It will also generate quick combo points for those nice 5point envenoms that hit like a truck.



Remember when I said I use different tiers for different brackets? This is why garrote the entire map and start on the kill target, blind the other, blind won't break because of "Dirty Tricks" Which in the end of the blind, your bleeds may have already done about 15% damage extra to the "blinded" target, which already backs him up from healing his partner/himself, but you get the picture.

Kill target/Burst: Vendetta/Trinket First > Shadow Blades after. Burst should only be used when you're about to do a kill. Why? Because Assassination does a lot of damage outside of it's burst anyways. On top of it, Vendetta is 2min's long and Shadow Blades is 3mins. You can trinket every minute if you want. I have these three cooldowns in a cast sequence/reset of 40 macro. Trinket being the first cast in the cast sequence.

The use of Dispatch, when dispatch does that bright thingy, use it after you use a Combo Point Quencher, it will give you a free combo point/no energy used/dmg. Spam dispatch after the person is 30% less health. Very low in energy (20) and it hits like an ambush. It will also generate quick combo points for those nice 5point envenoms that hit like a truck.

Well, it was a quick and short guide on how to play assassination in my eyes, but so far it's been the best playstyle(2300 in 3's, but I barely play the team and I'm trying to find a new comp to play for shits and giggles). You can take this guide and change anything you like to your playstyle, but this is mostly for more beginner mutilate players. I've played Sub and Mutilate during most of my seasons, but I prefer to just stick to Mut these next few seasons. Kind of tired of playing Sub, but if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I hope I make sense, I normally visit AJ during work, so this guide was written during my work hours ^^;

#3890346 Arena is kind of ridic right now

Posted Radejjj on 22 May 2013 - 04:09 PM

View PostFleischySucks, on 22 May 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

and thats why it took you 3 expansions to get glad?

And that's why you haven't gotten glad since they took it away from 2s?

I think like most people who have been playing this game forever, I've gotten better over time. I was terrible in tbc, like most people honestly, not to mention I played on dial up. Regardless, balance has always been and will always be awful in this game. The majority of people live and die by the buffs/nerfs their class gets. Something is always going to be op and that op class will look like the dumbest thing ever, but its no different then s4 warlocks/rogues/warriors/druids, wotlk dks/rets/beastcleave/protwarriors/spellcleaves, cata rogues/mages/frost dks, or whatever.

Balance will ALWAYS be terrible in this game, skill will always be subjective, if you can't accept that, find a new game.

#3890445 Tier 2 in 5.3 ... wtf

Posted fant0m8 on 22 May 2013 - 08:09 PM

Why do so many of you play this game for higher arbitrary numbers on a stat list?

That's so incredibly unimportant in a proper competitive game. It would literally be rewarding time over skill. Why do you think S12 sucked so bad?

ilvl cap is an amazing addition to this game.

#3890259 rogue 5.3 gems

Posted mimmick on 22 May 2013 - 11:52 AM

Straight agility

#3872413 How To Lazer Chicken

Posted Udderly on 08 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

I wrote this guide from my blog (lazerchicken.com) primarily directed at those who are new to Moonkin, and especially directed at newer players (I tend to explain things that more experienced players might already know).  If you have anything to contribute (macros, mistakes to fix, ideas for new sections, comp playstyle strats) please comment and I’m glad to add them to the guide.  Thanks for reading!


Glyphs in MoP offer some really nice opportunity for making changes to suit your playstyle/comp, similar to how the talent trees are now setup.  There is really only one mandatory glyph, no matter what comp you play, and the others will vary based on comp/opponent/playstyle quite a bit.   Here is my list:

Moonbeast – Absolutely a must when it comes to glyphs (and probably the only one).   Being able to heal in form saves the global of going back into form after healing and allows you to keep the 15% damage reduction and 5% party haste from form while you are healing.  This could add up to some substantial extra globals over the course of a game.

Stampede – Being able to cast stampeding roar in moonkin form will give you and your party a nice dash and breaks their roots/snares.  Again, saves a global when using it.  Not a must, but a nice bonus.

Omens – This change has been brutal.  Everyone knows that vortex/beam was very gimmicky, but without the glyph of Solar Beam the radius of the beam is so tiny.  Omens is a decent choice if you get trained a lot, since you can spam Faerie Fire to get into eclipse, but it's so little energy that I find it underwhelming.  Personally, I don't run this glyph anymore since the 5.3 change.

Prowl– If you are playing a triple stealth team (let’s say Rogue/Moonkin/Rsham) having the ability to move faster for the opener can be huge.  This one is quite situational though, as it will really only be important for the opener.

Nature’s Grasp – Since they’ve changed the spell to have only one charge this expansion, it’s not as powerful as it once was, but still a really good talent.  Being able to use it twice as often is pretty darn powerful vs. melee cleaves.  A really good choice.

Barkskin – An old staple.  Great defensive glyph, so if you are playing a comp where you are the one who gets trained a lot, I would call this glyph a must, personally.

Cyclone– 5 yards may seem like a small distance, but if you ask anyone who played Moonkin prior to MOP you will hear how much that 4 yards can make a difference in a game.

Entangling Roots – Another one that sounds miniscule, but can be a game changer.  Being able to get off a second root on a healer who has been root-beamed, can mean the difference between an 8 second cc and a 12 second cc from one Solar Beam.  If you’re talented into vortex, this glyph becomes far less effective (no root/beams), though can still help with managing melee.

Fae Silence – This one has some really cool implications, especially in comps where you are playing more of a utility role, rather than the primary damage dealer.  Being able to pop into bear and follow a deep freeze or HoJ up with a 3 second silence when training a healer can be gamebreaking.  The only disadvantage (besides losing a global going into bear form) is the 15 second cd that’s triggered on FF when used in bear form.  But with dispels having a long cd now, this shouldn’t make it super difficult to keep FF on that annoying rogue or feral.

Most of the other glyphs can have some significance, but IMO are not nearly as gamebreaking as any of these when you’re playing a lazer chicken.  I’ll probably start out with Moonbeast, Solar Beam, and Barkskin for the extra cc and survivability, but I expect I’ll be swapping around with Cyclone, Nature’s Grasp, and Stampede depending on the comps I’m running and what our survivability finally settles down like once the devs are no longer tweaking things.

For minor glyphs, it’s mostly fun stuff, but there are a couple key ones:

Grace - Being able to jump down to Mine in AB without switching to catform to prevent damage can be huge.  Hop down, cast a rejuv on yourself in mid-air and get to the lazer duty!

Stag: - This allows you to be mounted (ummm…) while in travel form.  While we don’t know how this will finally play out in Arena’s with being in combat vs. not, this could certainly have huge implications depending on how they let us do it.  Keep watching and I’ll update as we know more.


Tier 1 - Mobility
With the nerf to displacer beast (no longer stealths you or drops target/focus), wild charge has become an excellent choice as well.  Whether it's kiting in travel form, jumping backwards just after Typhoon for some big distance to the incoming melee, or going caster form and leaping to your planted mushrooms (even on another level, like the bridge in Blade's Edge), this talent brings a load of utility.  It can also be a really great tool for eating traps (drop form, leap to healer, trap).  I do still enjoy playing with the new displacer, and find that I change between that and wild charge quite often, depending on the opponent and our comp.  I did play with having the 15% all the time increase and since it stacks with other increases, it can be a quite nice way to just stay very mobile, especially for beginners getting used to Druids.

Tier 2 - Healing
As much as I'd like to say there is a choice, this one is a no brainer.  1 minute Nature's Swiftness with a 50% increase on any heal it's used on is humungous. With 5.2 bringing back 25% of pvp power affecting heals coming from dps specs, we should see some really nice healing from Moonkin again.  Quite a bump from our really mediocre cata healing.  It's also great for that instant clone when someone pops all their cds on you and you can't cast.  Cenarion Ward received a substantial healing buff and has its uses (especially vs. LSD 2.0 that just tries to wear your team down) but will be very situational.  The other talent isn’t even an option, unfortunately.

Tier 2 - Anti-melee
This tier gives you a bunch of ways to keep that pesky rogue or warrior from smashing your face in.  Despite the nerf to a 30 sec cd (was 20) Typhoon is still the best for z-axis maps, such as Blade's Edge or Dalaran (man that Ret is gonna be pissed!).  Knocking back a rogue can give you the room to get that clone off on him without getting interrupted.  It's also great for an interrupt in a pinch.  Faerie Swarm has been buffed to an unlimited number of targets (huge change).  Being able to keep a 50% slow on the opposing dps while your shaman goes ghost wolf can be pretty awesome.  I would call it situational, now that we can tell who our opponents are before starting a match.  Mass Entanglement is great against the hunter zoo, with the cd reduced to 30 seconds.  You can use it from range, hit multiple targets, and the cooldown is solid to prevent DR issues.  All three talents will have uses in different circumstances.

Tier 4 - DPS
This is the first tier that gives you a change to your DPS.  Force of Nature is similar to our old trees, except they now cast wrath, hit a lot harder, instantly root your target on cast, and now have 3 separate charges on 20 second cds.  This is a nice replacement for vortex beam, especially since trees are off the global, but giving up Incarnation damage is a pretty big sacrifice.  The AI is still super wonky, keeping it mostly inferior to Incarnation.  Soul of the Forest is a pick it and forget it talent.  It helps you get to your eclipse faster but you don't have any control over it.  A good pick for someone learning Moonkin, but the other two give you much more potential.  Incarnation is pretty beast.  25% increased eclipse damage for thirty seconds is a lot of damage for a long time.  Line this up with an on use trinket, Nature's Vigil (from Tier 6), and your partners cd's and you could be doing a disgusting amount of burst.  Not to mention the sweet armor it puts on your character during the cd.

Tier 5 - CC
This is a really fun tier.  Bash is the same as our old ability except you can use it in ANY FORM!  Pretty great if you don't play with a stun class.  Disorienting Roar is basically a slightly longer cd Dragon's Breath that doesn't have a directional requirement.  If you are getting trained a lot, this can be a great peel, as well as a way to setup clone/roots chains.  Keep in mind that unlike Dragon's Breath, this does break on dot damage.  Ursol's Vortex is probably the most fun, especially combined with Solar Beam, and is easily the most potent cc in the game (since you can't trinket vortex or beam).  Note* - the nerf to Glyph of Solar Beam made this combo much less potent, but it still has it's uses.  I find using vortex just for peeling melee is still great, and if you play an uninformed healer, they will still panic in beam, sprint out, and get sucked back in by vortex.  

Tier 6 - Hybrid
This is where we remember that we aren't just a pure lazer turret class.  Nature's Vigil gives you the ability to do some healing while putting out more pressure.  This could be a great cd to turn the tides when you're team is getting behind.  All of a sudden the other team is taking monster damage and your team is getting healed back up.  Ideally, you'll be stacking Vigil with your Incarnation/Trees/on-use for extra damage.  Dream of Cenarius is going to have the least use, as it is pretty passive throughout.  Unless you're facing LSD 2.0 and need to keep up rejuvs on your team non-stop, the other two talents will outshine this one.  Heart of the Wild is insanely good for helping your team survive during the other team's burst.  The healing is stupidly powerful, and when used right, it can be gamebreaking.  Against DoT teams, just having HoTW rejuvs ticking on your entire team over the duration of demon soul/incarnation/etc. can really shut down the pressure of your opponent.  The passive int is nice, too, if you want another click and forget talent.

Really good point made by HackAttack3 about the viability of Moonkin in 2's (finally!), mostly due to HoTW.  Playing comps such as Lazer + Rogue/Ele/Dk/etc. can be a lot more fun, since you can reset the match with a few well timed heals.  Playing with a healer is still pretty painful, but at least 2 dps is a pretty good time and makes for relatively easy point capping.

Class pairings

Mage:  This is a really great class to pair up with, no matter which spec they are.  Fire  Mage/Moonkin creates a very powerful dot comp referred to as "Spicy Chicken Cleave".  Frost Mage/Moonkin is probably one of the best comps you can play right now, as a Moonkin.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Roots and Novas, Deep and Bash, Dragon's Breath (fire) and Disorienting Roar(talent), Polymorph and Ring of Frost (talent).  Otherwise, you have a ton of CC that doesn't share DR, which is awesome.  It may seem like a lot of DR share, but there is so much cc in this comp to begin with that it isn't a concern.
  • Symbiosis: Decent target, but you'll most likely give it to your healer in this situation.
Rogue:  Excellent pairing, and gives you another nifty name for your comp in "Dancing With the Stars".  Rogues and Druids combine for the best CC in the game, with very little DR so you can control the living hell out of the other team.  Comp revolves around the moonkin spreading damage, similar to RLS, and the rogue bursting the kill target, while controlling others.  Garrote -> Kidney -> Solarbeam on a healer that gets switched to when already at 75% will always get a kill or force major cds if done well.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Bash and Rogue stuns, Roots and Paralytic Poison (talent, when shiv'd).  So basically if you don't spec Bash, the DR issues are almost non existant and you have a ton of cc.
  • Symbiosis: Great choice.  You both earn a huge defensive cd, making your team an even harder kill.
Priest:  This is a great pairing as either Shadow or Disc.  Between being able to give your healer Cyclone and gain a second dispel is gamebreaking.  Shadow matches up nicely too, since you both have the ability to do a ton of damage when not trained, making any melee cleave think twice about who to train and who gets to freecast into them.  
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Nothing!  The cc pairing is awesome, adding fear, more silence (shadow), disarm (shadow) and whatever talents they pick up to your arsenal.
  • Symbiosis: The best swap.  Disc gets clone and you get Mass Dispel.  Shadow only gets a weak version of Tranquility, but you still get Mass Dispel which is huge.
Warrior:  I like the idea of pairing with a warrior, for a few reasons.  Beyond the fact that their symbiosis pairing is solid and you can get them out of roots as well every two minutes (trinket for your warrior!), the warrior single target burst allows you to play the utility role that they lack and just let the warrior eat things up.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Stormbolt (talent) and Bash and Shockwave (talent), possible Spell Reflected CC, Staggering Shout (talent) and Roots.  Even with the DR's here, I still think it's a solid amount of CC all around.
  • Symbiosis:  You give the warrior a root break and he gives you intervene, allowing the two of you to ping pong around the map.  Sounds like super interesting gameplay to me.
Death Knight:  Historically, this has been a rather poor pairing with a Moonkin.  When you're getting trained, the DK doesn't have a ton of ways to get someone else off you (unlike a warrior, who peels with his burst).  That being said, it is completely different in MoP!  Totally different play style than the typical Moonkin comp, in that you run in TSG style and pop everything in a beam.  Having double grip into the beam, followed by strangulate is brutal on a healer.  Really fun and exciting.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Chains of Ice root (chiblains talent) and Roots, pet Gnaw and Bash.  Not a ton of CC from the DK, but he does bring grip and necrotic which are such unique (and kinda OP sometimes) abilities.
  • Symbiosis:  Getting AMS is nice, and the mushrooms are fairly good for Unholy.  You would probably use it on your healer in this case.
Paladin:  The style of Moonkin/Ret is pretty interesting.  Being able to pop all cds and burst a healer during hoj ->solarbeam is pretty fantastic.  Holy could be a viable partner for many comps with their great anti melee cds (freedom, bop, sac) and the spammable cc they were given (repentance talent).
  • CC Diminishing Returns:  HoJ and Bash.  Paladins don't have a ton of cc, but what they have is pretty good stuff.
  • Symbiosis:  Ret is decent, since you gain an additional HoJ, but they get Wrath from you, which is something that will almost never get used.  Holy gets Rebirth, which isn't usable in arena, so it's pretty much a waste.
Warlock:  Affl Lock and Moonkin have excellent synergy, and came to be a dominant pair in Cataclysm by teaming up with a resto Shaman and forming LSD 2.0.  By dotting everything in sight and having excellent CC, this is a thriving pairing.  Destro and moonkin is also a nice pair, since either one of you left to free cast can be devastating to the opponent.  Demo can also be a good pairing, now that they can't be spam dispelled anymore.
  • CC Diminishing Returns:  Shadowfury and Bash and pet Axe Toss.  Nothing worth worrying about, so overall the team has a ton of cc choices.
  • Symbiosis:  An excellent pairing.  Lock gains rejuv, meaning you can have hots rolling from both dps on your team and you gain a really solid defensive cd that keeps you from being silenced/interrupted for 8 seconds.
Hunter:  Hunter was never a good choice because of dots ruining the ability to scatter trap, but with the new hunter glyphs that removes dots on scatter or trap, that is a thing of the past.  This comp has excellent CC and peels for each other and could be devastating when both are able to burst.
  • Symbiosis:  Unfortunately, hunter is the worst pairing here, as you gain a useless talent from him.  You'll be giving it to your healer in this pairing.
Shaman:  This is probably my favorite pairing for a number of reasons.  Shamans make up for a Moonkin’s weaknesses and visa versa.  Symbiosis is excellent no matter what shaman spec and you get really nice CC again.  Ele/Moonkin, or Ping Pong cleave, can be super annoying with all of the knockbacks, Resto has been a really strong healer lately, and Enhance has nice burst and utility to match the druid.
  • CC Diminishing Returns:  Earthbind (talent) and Roots and Frozen Power (talent), Capacitor Totem and Bash.  Very few DR issues here.
  • Symbiosis:  Ele or Enh gain SOLARBEAM!!  This is gamebreaking, now having 2 beams for your team every minute.  Gaining purge in exchange is huge as well.  Resto getting prowl can be big for the opener, as anyone who played with a resto druid knows.
Monk:  Monks seem to pair nicely with a lot of things right now, IMHO, both as a healer and a melee.  We have a nice Symbiosis pairing and the healy monk has disgusting amounts of throughput, while the melee monk can do a metric ton of damage while still having great control.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Bash and Fists of Fury and Leg Sweep, Roots and Hamstring
  • Symbiosis:  You gain a 1 minute disarm (awesome!) and your healer will gain entangling roots or the melee will gain Bear Hug (a mediocre stun that does damage on a 1-min cd).  Pairing with either can be great for you, and double bonus if the pairing is with a MW!

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How to Moonkin or Which Laser Should I Press??

Moonkin is one of the coolest specs in the game.  With the ability to nuke an opponent, heal your teammates, or just apply aoe pressure, the class with the best crowd control in the game offers us the chance to bring a lot of utility, while still bringing the damage.  Let's start with the basics:


As a new moonkin, you'll want to know what some of the basics to the spec are.  Here are some of the most important spells and abilities:

Starsurge:  This is our bread and butter nuke spell.  Hardcasting this anytime it's off cool down is pretty much always a good idea and we have a chance at getting instant, no mana cost procs from dot damage to cast it again.  Lining up a nice SS hard cast into a SS proc can be some really nice burst.

Moonkin Form:  Shifting into form reduces your damage taken by 15%, increase your damage by 10%, and give 5% haste to you and everyone around you - pretty awesome.  Try and stay in moonkin as much as possible, especially with the new glyph that allows you to heal in form.  Leaving form to heal is only a good idea if you're going to die otherwise or you can line of sight incoming damage (losing the 15% damage reduction is huge)

Eclipse:  This is the most important mechanic for being a lazer chicken and ensuring max damage.  When you first enter arena, your eclipse bar is in "neutral", or right in the center.  If you cast a wrath, it will move towards lunar first.  If you cast a starfire it will move towards solar first.  Generally speaking, wrath and starfire work opposite of each other.  SS will always move you towards whichever direction you're currently going EXCEPT when you first start an arena in neutral - in this instance, if you cast it BEFORE you cast a wrath or starfire it will always move towards solar.  

What if I can't cast you ask???  How will I ever see this amazing eclipse you speak of??  Never fear, I have alternatives for you.  First off, our PvP 2 piece set bonus (bonus for having at least 4 of the 5 main set pieces) is setup so that when you get hit with a critical strike, you have a chance to gain 20 energy heading towards the direction you are currently going - it has an internal cool down, but you can get to eclipse pretty fast if you're being trained.  We also have a great new ability called Astral Communion that allows you to gain energy towards you eclipse while channeling.  But how can I channel while running around for my life you ask?  Fear not, because our new 4 piece allows us to channel it while moving!  You can also use Glyph of Omens if you need more ways of gaining energy, as this will allow you to spam Faerie Fire on your target for energy.  Lots of great tools for getting that big damage.

So why does someone want to get into eclipse?  Solar and lunar eclipse each add damage to some of your spells.  Take a look below for specifics:

Solar Eclipse:  Increases damage to SS, Wrath, Sunfire, Wild Mushrooms, Hurricane

Lunar Eclipse:  Increases damage to SS, Starfire, Moonfire, Starfall, Astral Storm (same function as Hurricane)

So anytime you hit an eclipse, you want to ensure that you have your dot ticking (Moonfire or Sunfire), cast SS on cd, pop Starfall if you're in Lunar, and ideally cast Starfires (lunar) into your target (assuming you aren't tanking two melee's with a lot of interrupts available.  There is much more to the nuances, but we'll get to that shortly - this is just the basics of your "rotation".  It’s important to note that Wrath does garbage damage, so it’s almost never worth casting and risking the lockout – there is almost always something more important you can do with utility.

Solarbeam:  This spell is what makes us super annoying to the other team.  By casting roots and immediately following it up with a Solarbeam on a healer, they are effectively stuck in the beam silenced for 8 seconds till the root ends.  Having the ability to follow it up with a  second roots is key - and if you are playing with a  mage, being able to drop this on top of frozen targets is amazing for catching multiple casters at once.  Sometimes, even without roots it's really great to drop on a healer behind boxes, forcing him to step into the open to heal and opening him up to giant CC chains.  Being on just a one minute cd makes this a really sick spell.  The ultimate pairing is with Vortex, and in RBG’s is actually the most OP cc combo in the game right now IMHO.

What makes this spell really special, is the ability to use it defensively that many people don't fully appreciate.  A frost DK standing in it does almost no damage, a Ret can't CC you or do many of his damaging abilities and well placed beam around boxes (like Dalaran Arena) can allow you to really mess up burst from casters as well.  Don't be afraid to drop it on a melee thats on you and stand in it if you need to relieve some pressure.

Owlkin Frenzy:  This passive is really nice for when you're getting focused to allow you to do more damage.  A straight 10% damage increase is nothing to laugh at, and the immunity to pushback is huge if the other team doesn't have an interrupt available - you can nuke away!

Lunar Shower:  This talent really gives us the ability to keep doing damage while moving or getting trained and not go OOM.  By spamming moonfire or sunfire on a target, you build up three stacks to do more damage and the spell costs very little.  It's not the best damage you can do, but helps a lot when you are forced to kite or tank melee.

Wild Mushroom: Detonate:  This allows you to blow up the mushrooms you place doing AOE damage.  But what is more important is the 50% slow that is put on the ground for 20 secs. for 8 yards around each mushroom.  Great for kiting, slowing an escaping enemy or peeling for your team.


1. Focus Macros:
GOOOOOOTTA have those focus macros.  So important to be able to keep nuking your kill target while continually spamming clone/roots/hibernate etc. on your focus target.  Typical macro for me looks like this:

#showtooltip Cyclone
/cast [nomod] Cyclone
/cast [mod:shift, target=focus] Cyclone

You can change 'shift' to whatever mod you prefer (for me, shift is the most used by far) and there you go!  You can now easily just hold shift and hit that same button without switching targets.  Make macros like this for the following spells: Solarbeam, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire (rogues!!), Cyclone, Bash (if specced), Wild Charge (if specced - great to go bear and charge interrupt someone/stun) and Hibernate

2. Rejuv
I like to setup macros to make it easy to keep rejuv on my teammates.  This can done pretty easily in a similar fashion as above, but requires some maintenance if you want good control.  I'll show too methods:

#showtooltip Rejuvenation
/cast [nomod, target=billythemage] Rejuvenation
/cast [mod:shift, target=sammytheshaman] Rejuvenation
/cast [mod:ctrl] Rejuvenation

This will always cast rejuv on Billy when you have no mod, always on sammy when you hold shift, and on either your target if friendly or yourself if enemy targeted (and you have the option turned on in your settings to heal yourself when targeting an enemy).  The positive side is you always know who you are healing.  The negative is the upkeep if you switch partners a lot.

#showtooltip Rejuvenation
/cast [nomod, target=party1] Rejuvenation
/cast [mod:shift, target=party2] Rejuvenation
/cast [mod:ctrl] Rejuvenation

This version will always cast on party1 with no mod and party2 with shift held down.  The downside of this method is that each time you enter arena party1 and party2 can be switched around.  Far less upkeep though, totally up to you.

3. Form macros
Another important set of macros are power shift macros.  

#showtooltip Moonkin Form
/cast !Moonkin Form(Shape shift)

Sub in any form there and you now have a macro that when you hit it takes you back into the same form without hitting caster form.  This will help you break roots without leaving you vulnerable without your feathers/fur/etc.  Make one for bear form, cat form, travel form, and even swim form if you like.


(from Snuggli)
/cast [nostance] !Moonkin Form; [stance:1] !Bear Form; [stance:4] !Travel form; [stance:3] !Cat Form; [stance:5] !Moonkin Form; [stance:6] !Moonkin Form;
This gives you the one button power shift macro, where you can have a single button that power shifts, and other keys for each form.  Either way can work, depending on your preference.

4. Trinket macros
This may sound silly, but how many times have you gotten an upgrade, forgot to put it on your bar, went to break out of cc/activate your burst trinket and nothing happened?  You can avoid that by having a macro that always uses whatever's in that slot, rather than the specific trinket on your bars.

/use 14

14 is your bottom slot and 13 is the top.  Easy to make one for each.

5. Cooldowns

I'm a big fan of having a single button to press for that burst opportunity - it saves keystrokes which could be valuable when you only have a small window to burst.

#showtooltip Berserking (if you're a troll druid)
/cast berserking
/use 13
/cast Lifeblood
/use 10
/cast Incarnation

In this macro, it casts berserking if you are a troll, uses your pvp burst trinket if it's in the top slot, casts lifeblood if you are an herbalist, and uses your engi glove if you're an engineer.  Adjust to fit your race/profs.  Since trinket triggers the internal cd on the engineering gloves, you can use this once for all of your big cds, and then hit it again later to just trigger the gloves.

6. Focus Set
This macro lets you mouseover a player and set them as focus.  Great for bgs, rbgs, wpvp, or if you don't have gladius in arena

/focus [target=mouseover]

7. Wild Mushroom Leap

(from Snuggli)
#showtooltip Wild Charge
/target Wild Mushroom
/stopmacro [noexists]
/stopmacro [noexists, harm]
/cast Wild Charge
This will allow you to leap up on a z-axis to a mushroom you've placed, if you are running Wild Charge as a talent.  Very clutch when you're getting trained.

Those would be my core Moonkin macros.  I'm glad to add more if people have good ones - feel free to email me/hit me on twitter! Until then, keep those lazers hot and spicy!

Comp Playstyles

Comp Playstyles #1 – LSD 2.0

This is the first, in what I hope to be a lengthy series of posts on Moonkin playstyle in different 3v3 comps.  I thought we’d kick it off with one of the more straight forward (and super fun) comps that is available to us: LSD 2.0

Teammates: Resto Shaman, Affliction Warlock

Ideal Talents: Displacer, NS, varies, Incarn or SOTF, Vortex, Vigil

Symbiosis: Lock will be ideal (he gets rejuv, you get a defensive CD that makes you take less damage and become immune to interrupts for a short time.  Shaman is also viable (he gets prowl, you get purge) but less important, since the lock can’t stealth so it won’t be a triple stealth opener.

CC Diminishing Returns: Shadowfury & Bash & Capacitor Totem, Earthbind & Entangling Roots

Playstyle: This comp is your traditional dot cleave.  The goal is fairly simple: dot EVERYTHING.  I literally mean everything, including pets.  The real strength of LSD 2.0 resides in getting everything low gradually, so that the healer just cannot keep up.  It’s not uncommon to be playing this comp and to see the entire team die within 10-15 seconds of each other, rather than just killing one player while the others are close to topped off as can usually be the case.  Popping Celestial Alignment and trinket early can start to really accelerate the pressure, especially if you toss a vortex/beam onto the healer just before popping it so that the dots can really tick away before they are able to start healing.  Ideally your Lock will use Dark Soul at the same time, and you’ll find the pressure to be overwhelming.  Incarnation and Nature’s Vigil can be stacked and used almost anytime you’re free to put out more pressure, since you’ll still just be dotting, surging, and casting starfall most of the time.

It’s pretty unnecessary to ever cast in this comp, outside of a rare cyclone or using Starsurge (if for some reason it comes off cooldown without proccing), so it’s pretty new player friendly with very little fear of a lockout.  I recommend avoiding cloning unless necessary, as it slows your damage down – obviously you need to evaluate the situation and use it when appropriate (CC’ing a warrior with all his CDs popped should take priority over dotting him).  Very little DR on CC here, as well, and almost none of it breaks on damage if you avoid taking Disorienting Roar.

  • Avoid the “finish him he’s low!” mentality when playing LSD 2.0.  It’s really easy to get caught up with a player that is sub 10% and wanting to finish him off.  That’s really not the goal of this comp – if you just keep on dotting and switching, something will eventually die (the damage is literally unhealable).  Spamming an instant into somebody to get a kill should be used sparingly, and you should rather turn to other targets to make sure they remain dotted during that time so that everything is still ticking down.

  • Shaman can actually do some decent DPS.  When targets are getting low, if your healer can cast without fear of a lockout, and assuming your team isn’t super low, make sure they are tossing out a flame shock/lava burst combo every now and again. Lava burst always crits.  They should also be using their fire elemental and storm last totem for that little bit of extra damage for the team.

  • Use your pillars.  It’s pretty easy to step out, dot something, and step back in this comp.  Don’t be afraid to kite around pillars, dot and hide, and really play defensively when necessary.  Your dots will still be doing damage, even if you are LOS.
Happy hunting, feathered friends.

Com Playstyles #2 – Dancing With the Stars

This is probably my favorite Moonkin comp to play, and should be VERY powerful this season (s13).

Teammates: Sub Rogue, Disc Priest (although other healers can work)

Ideal Talents: Wild Charge, NS, varies, Force of Nature or Incarn, Roar (defensive) or Vortex (offensive), HOTW (defensive) or Vigil (offensive)

Symbiosis: Both are excellent choices.  Rogue gives you Cloak of Shadows if you’re playing against a caster cleave and he gets a damage reduction CD in Growl (his version is different than the Druid version).  Priest will be the go to against melee cleaves, as he gets CYCLONE!! and you get Mass Dispel (on a 1 min cooldown).  Both are very gamebreaking – if they train the rogue, you have MD to get your healer out of cc; if they train you, your healer can clone without fear of diminishing returns; if they train the healer, you can get the healer out of a clutch HoJ or Strangulate or get the Rogue out of cc so he can peel the healer.

CC Diminishing Returns: Disorienting Roar & Blind & Fear, Pounce & Cheap Shot, Kidney and Bash

Playstyle: This comp is fantastic because it can burst every minute, with the lineup of Solarbeam and Shadowdance (and Force of Nature if you spec it).  In the offensive version of the comp (meaning you’re not playing against something that has very front loaded burst like TSG, triple DPS, or KFC) you’ll be picking up Nature’s Vigil and Ursol’s Vortex as well.  Every one of these has a one minute cooldown, allowing you to swap onto any low target with stupid burst every single minute.  The defensive version of the comp (for when you need to turtle out some huge front-loaded burst) will want to pick up HOTW for some major off-healing and Disorienting Roar or Vortex for another awesome peel cc during the enemy team’s cooldowns.  

The opener for this comp will always come out of group stealth from the rogue.  Ideally he’ll get a sap on one of the dps, while you open with a root>solarbeam (or Vortex>solarbeam if you’re specced for it) on the enemy healer.  This gives you the opportunity for your first Shadowdance (and all 1  minute cds – Starfall, Force of Nature and Nature’s Vigil) on one DPS, while the enemy healer starts falling way behind.  Coming out of the sap/solarbeam combo, if you can get a cyclone/blind off on the same too people who were already cc’d, you have a very good chance of scoring a kill.  

If you don’t score a kill – DONT PANIC!!  This comp is not at all about scoring an early kill.  If the enemy is able to stop your kill attempt, then start spreading dots/starfall.  This is a good opportunity to pop Celestial Alignment and dot everything (including pets).  Your rogue can then swap to whatever target makes the most sense for him (based on positioning, relative health, stun DR) and work on setting up the kill for the next Shadowdance/Solarbeam combo.  Make sure you are in Eclipse before your Rogue uses Shadowdance, and you should be scoring kills in no time!

  • Supposedly Starfall doesn’t hit cc’d targets in 5.2 – until we see that this is true 100% of the time, the biggest thing to watch out for in this comp is Starfall breaking Sap and Blind.  Make sure you are using it wisely (and communicating it well) and that your Rogue is watching for Starfall when he goes for a Blind or Sap (it’s something he’ll become used to as you play the comp more.

  • Healer kills are VERY viable for this comp.  If you are good about dotting everything during the time between Shadowdance/Solar beam cds, there is a good chance the healer will be sitting at 60-70% when you swap to him.  A well timed Garrote>Kidney>Solarbeam/Vortex>Paralytic Stun is horrific for a healer to deal with.  If your Rogue isn’t peeled properly through this, the healer could be in for over 20 seconds straight of CC (which he will never survive)!!

  • Priest having cyclone can be amazing – but watch out for DR.  If you are getting trained all game, this is a great time for your Symbiosis to be on the Priest so he can keep cloning while you are unable to.  Just make sure you are communicating your clones, the same way a Lock/Spriest have to do with fears when playing Shadowplay.

  • Don’t forget your offheals.  Even just tossing out occasional Rejuv’s (especially when you can’t cast because you’re being trained) can be huge for your healer.
I hope you have as much fun playing this comp as I do.  When you get the hang of it, there is an incredible amount of everything – CC, burst, offhealing, utility, and mobility.  Pew, pew!

Comp Playstyles #3 – Spicy Chicken Cleave

A very fun comp that can do some insane burst when played correctly.

Teammates:  Fire Mage, Resto Shaman/Disc Priest

Ideal Talents: WC or Displacer, NS or Cenarion Ward, varies, Incarnation, Vortex, Vigil

Symbiosis:  Your healer will be your ideal partner in this comp.  The shaman will gain Prowl, allowing a triple stealth opener, while you gain purge (ensuring that everyone on the team can dispel enemy buffs).  The priest will gain Cyclone (which is fantastic for ensuring targets are getting cc’d when you are getting trained and can’t cast) and you will gain Mass Dispel on a one-minute cooldown (which can literally be the difference between winning and losing a game when you can get your healer out of cc).

CC Diminishing Returns: Dragon’s Breath & Disorienting Roar; Deep Freeze & Bash & Capacitor Totem & Ring of Frost; Frost Nova & Entangling Roots & Mass Entanglement & Earthgrasp Totem & Frozen Power;

Playstyle:  This comp is a hybrid between the previous two (Dancing With the Stars and LSD 2.0), in that you will be dotting everything for maximum spread damage again, but you have that nice burst window every time Deep Freeze is available for your mage.  The opener against this team can be pretty nasty if the opposing team stacks up, as you have a large number of AoE cc’s available.

Typical opener for this comp will be to start dotting the entire team, while letting the mage control melee with novas and DB (DB doesn’t break on dot damage!).  Since you will be avoiding speccing Disorienting Roar for this comp, the mage should be able to DB on cd without having to worry about diminishing returns.  Use Celestial Alignment when you know you’ll have some free time to get dots on everything rolling (including pets) to increase pressure on the opposing team.

Kill attempts will revolve around your Mage.  When going for a kill, let the mage deep the target (with the proper mage setup for procs), while you drop a vortex/beam on the healer (if attacking a dps).  Fire Mages do nasty damage in a deep if setup right (sometimes 4 instant Pyroblast in a row!), so a properly timed vortex/beam, especially if you can typhoon them back inside, will easily amount to plenty of defensive cooldowns being popped by your enemy – or likely a kill!

  • Play defensive – you’re entire team is pretty easy to kill for a decent melee cleave if you get overly aggressive for your kills.  Don’t get baited into bad spots just to get a kill, knowing that your mage will have Deep available again in just a few seconds.

  • Any target is viable – going on a healer is pretty nasty if you can keep the dps from crushing you while you’re doing it (deep, blanket counterspell, vortex/beam/ring of frost), because of the insane amount of time you can keep the healer from casting while you blow them up.  DPS are also good, though, as you can shut down a healer pretty well during your kill attempts with your massive amount of cc.

  • Utilize Mass Dispel – despite being on a one minute cooldown (and costing a load of mana), this can be game changing.  When the KFC gets a trap off on your priest and are trying to go mongo on your mage, using MD to free your healer will ensure they have their trinket available later on.

  • Keep dots rolling – although this comp has awesome burst potential during Deep Freeze, a lot of what makes it so good is the wear and tear that Moonkin dots combined with Living Bomb and Combustion from the Mage can do to the opposing healer who is trying to keep up.  Avoid overwriting stronger dots when you can, but just make sure everything is dotted constantly (including pets!).

  • Fight pressure with pressure – a lot of time there is the tendency to try and offheal through enemy burst, when really you should be countering them by popping your own cooldowns to push them back.  Don’t be afraid to utilize massive cc and pure damage when the enemy goes mongo.
All in all, it’s a very fun comp to play.  Fire does get trained pretty hard right now, with the massive number of melee cleave teams out there, but there is loads of potential.

Change Log:  Updated for 5.3, 6/7/13

Contributors:  Udderly, Snuggli, HackAttack3

#3880097 Cloak and Dagger nerfed on PTR

Posted varellz on 25 April 2013 - 04:58 PM

View PostOhhiimMvp, on 25 April 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

You know if you used to play in BC, ShS used to do this and I can actually see it coming back to the game with how many roots and snares there is.

Afaik it wasn't breaking roots. Instead you could use it while rooted and stay rooted after you stepped.

#3761244 Vishas and Hildegard's rogue guide - approved by Reckful

Posted WildeHilde on 06 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

3.) Gear

While I am working on a rogue pvp burst spreadsheet the work is not done, yet. Which means that many of the following statements are assumptions and not based on math. If you are experienced with theorycrafting and want to help - send me a message.

3.1 Hit and Expertise

3% Hit is 1020 Hit rating. Having more is not bad but stats that could be spent better. Try to reforge as close to 1020 rating as possible but always have at least 1020.

Depends on choice. Monks, druids and paladins have about 3,5% chance to dodge, Priests and Shamans have 3% unless they have additional buffs.
3% Expertise is 1020 Expertise Rating
3,5% Expertise is 1190 Expertise Rating

If attacking from behind Expertise is only used for Gouge. So the value of the stat is up to preference, unlike Hit, which should always be capped.

3.2 Resilience vs. PvP Power

First of all read Eldacar's 5.2 Guide to PVP Power & Resilience. Resilience scales slower than in patch 5.1. Going from full resilience gems to matching socket bonusses and focus on PvP Power increases damage done by about 6.5% but also means the rogue takes 12% more damage.

A real answer can only be found in the arena and I will keep you updated on the choices the most succesful rogues out there take. Currently the most common choice by far is to use resilience gems and take the socket bonusses.

In the future agility might become a better stat than PvP Power.

3.3 Subtlety gems and secondary stats:

Sockets defensive choice
Meta: Tyrannical Primal Diamond (source undetermined) or Agile Primal Diamond
For Orcs the Powerful Primal Diamond is a solid, but very defensive choice, too.
Blue Socket: Vivid Wild Jade
Yellow Socket: Mystic Sun's Radiance
Red Socket: Lucent Vermilion Onyx

Sockets offensive choice (not recommended):
Meta: Tyrannical Primal Diamond (source undetermined) or Agile Primal Diamond
Red: Assassin's Imperial Amethyst
Yellow: Effulgent Wild Jade or Radiant Wild Jade
Blue: Stormy River's Heart

Secondary stats: Mastery = Crit > Haste

Subtlety Mastery vs. Crit
Based on early calculations in my rogue pvp dps spreadsheet crit is as strong as mastery for Subtlety rogues. Crit reduces the RNG during burst a bit while mastery makes the opener stronger but more RNG based. Subtlety burst depends on crits and we have a relatively low crit chance. Without numbers to back it up I think it‘s fair to say that both options are viable. If you want to play safe, take mastery as most top rogues do.

3.4 Assasination gems and secondary stats

Sockets defensive choice
Meta: Tyrannical Primal Diamond (source undetermined) or Agile Primal Diamond
For Orcs the Powerful Primal Diamond is a solid, but very defensive choice, too.
Blue Socket: Vivid Wild Jade
Yellow Socket: Mystic Sun's Radiance
Red Socket: Lucent Vermilion Onyx

Sockets offensive choice (not recommended):
Meta: Tyrannical Primal Diamond (source undetermined) or Agile Primal Diamond
Red: Assassin's Imperial Amethyst
Yellow: Effulgent Wild Jade
Blue: Stormy River's Heart

Secondary stats: Mastery > Crit = Haste

3.5 Combat gems and secondary stats

The information on combat might be outdated. I don‘t know of any high-rated rogue playing combat in patch 5.2 and cannot check many of the choices.

Sockets defensive choice
Meta: Tyrannical Primal Diamond (source undetermined) or Agile Primal Diamond
For Orcs the Powerful Primal Diamond is a solid, but very defensive choice, too.
Blue Socket: Vivid Wild Jade
Yellow Socket: Mystic Sun's Radiance
Red Socket: Lucent Vermilion Onyx

Sockets offensive choice (not recommended):
Meta: Tyrannical Primal Diamond (source undetermined) or Agile Primal Diamond
Red: Assassin's Imperial Amethyst
Yellow: Effulgent Wild Jade or Radiant Wild Jade
Blue: Stormy River's Heart

Secondary stats for combat
Based of PvE the secondary stats would be: Haste > Mastery > Crit
In my opinion however Mastery and Crit would be more benefitial for PvP, as Haste does not affect the strongest burst (Killing Spree) in a combat rogue‘s arsenal. Solid informations on combat are lacking so take this ranking not as a fact.

3.6 Enchants

Head: Does not have enchantments anymore
Shoulder: Greater Tiger Claw Inscription
Cloak: Enchant Cloak - Superior Critical Strike
Chest:Enchant Chest: Super Resilience or Enchant Chest - Glorious Stats (not recommended)
Bracer: Enchant Bracer - Greater Agility
Gloves: Enchant Gloves - Superior Mastery
Belt: Living Steel Belt Buckle
Legs: Shadowleather Leg Armor
Boots: Enchant Boots - Blurred Speed
Mainhand weapon: Enchant Weapon - Dancing Steel
Offhand weapon: Enchant Weapon - Glorious Tyranny or Living Steel Weapon Chain until you have full gear.

Glorious Tyranny is definitely better for the offhand than the Living Steel Weapon Chain. It is not better than Dancing Steel on the mainhand. For rogues with full S12 gear Glorious Tyranny is the biggest upgrade available until elite gear becomes available.

3.7 PvE vs. PvP gear

From the current looks of it PvE gear is still worse than PvP gear. If patch 5.3 introduces gear upgrades for PvE only this would change. If you want to be safe – start raiding.

4.) Racials

Over 90% of the best rogues in World of Warcraft play either Undead or Human. If you want to be safe take one of them. Other options are there but it's up to argument if they can compete.

4.1) Alliance racials

The main argument for playing Human is the proc trinket that can be used instead of the Medallion. It's not as much about the passive amount of PvP Power (that gets weaker as gear progresses, currently it's about 1.5% - 2% more damage) but about the agility proc. Humans deal by far the highest burst damage in PvP and rogues are a burst class. They lack however the utility other racials bring to the table.

Night Elf
Shadowmeld works like Vanish did in previous expansions. You can shadowmeld not only enemy casts but also instants like stuns, Blind or Mortal Coil. It gives a free restealth. In addition Night Elves move faster while stealthed.

Gnomes are awesome! Ok, let's be realistic. Escape Artist is a good spell and can help sticking to a target and can keep a burst going that would otherwise be denied. The added Expertise with daggers comes in handy, too. But overall Gnomes are not on the same level as Humans or Undeads.

4.2) Horde Racials

The most iconic rogue race there is. The utility of Will of the Forsaken is huge. Touch of the Grave is a small DPS increase that might add around 6k damage to the rogue burst.

Before I said Humans have the biggest burst of all rogues but that is not entirely true. Currently using the proc trinket, Synapse springs and Blood Fury together is about the same damage as a Human with proc and onUse trinket active. The downside is the nature of procs, they are not reliable and the burst needs to be timed based on the internal trinket cooldowns.
Hardiness is very good for survival and can be combined with the Powerful Primal Diamond.

5.) Professions

The best professions for passive stats are Blacksmithing followed by Jewelcrafting. Other than most professions you can get resilience and PvP Power as perks, while Enchanting or Alchemy only provide agility.

Engineering gives access to the Synapse Springs glove enchant. You can use Synapse Springs in addition to other enchants. This gives a second onUse effect that is about 70% of the effect of the onUse trinket. The Incendiary Fireworks Launcher does not scale at all and cannot be used together with other onUse effects. The damage is probably too low to consider it, but it might be handy to keep someone in combat over a larger distance.

6.) Talents

Tier 1

Affects the first ability used out of stealth. While the speed increase comes in handy the other choices in this tier are far superior.

While Subterfuge is active the rogue has the stealth buff but is visible to nearby players. It works different than Shadow Dance, for example the increased damage from Master of Subtlety carries on for three more seconds.
Subterfuge is a strong option and makes openers a lot safer, as you are still able to open even if you get popped out of stealth. When comparing it to Shadow Focus one could say that Subterfuge makes openers safer while Shadow Focus makes them riskier but stronger if they work. The rogue community is divided on which talent is better.
The rogue remains invisible for the duration of Subterfuge, as can be seen in this video.
In combination with the glyph of Vanish the rogue remains stealthed for up to eight seconds unless he attacks.
If Shadow Dance is triggered less than 0.5 seconds after the opener Subterfuge bugs out. Blizzard promised to have a look at this bug.

Shadow Focus
Straight forward damage increase, allows for quick openers with Distract, Sapand Ambush/Garrote/Cheap Shot only costing 75% of the normal energy. Burst of Speed is also effected so a stealthed rogue can use it constantly.
When comparing it to Subterfuge one could say that Subterfuge makes openers safer while Shadow Focus makes them riskier but stronger if they work. The rogue community is divided on which talent is better.

Tier 2

Deadly Throw
The interrupt only works with three to five combo points and not like in TBC with any amount of them. This skill is extremely effective against classes that need to cast. It should only be taken in combination with the Tier 6 talent Shuriken Toss. Deadly Throw has a minimum range of 6 yards.

Nerve Strike
Excellent talent for peeling. As enemy team compositions are known prior to the start of the game a good choice if peeling is needed. Good synergy with Subterfuge to do the 3x Cheap Shot Neilyo style on the enemy team. With 5.2 probably the least taken choice in this tier.

Combat Readiness
Lasts for 20 sec, but if 10 sec elapse without any incoming weapon strikes, this state will end.
As talent now on a different cooldown than Cloak of Shadows. Stacks only with Weapon Strikes, Hunter shots are counted. The best defensive choice against melee and hunter comps.

Tier 3

Cheat Death
Solid choice that eases the energy management unlike Elusiveness It prevents the Windwalker Monk execute Touch of Death (4set bonus) from killing the rogue. During our tests we had regular rogue deaths with Cheat Death barely helping. It seems to work about 80% of the time. Khuna is one of the rogues using this talent over Elusiveness.

Leeching Poison
From a first glimpse the talent looks decent, but the fact that it only works when it is not needed, meaning in stuns or generally when not attacking, makes it far less useful. The Shiv-effect heals for 5% of maximum health, which is about 18k in full gear. Also it prevents the usage of mind-numbing poison. Along with Nightstalker the worst PvP talent for rogues.

Elusiveness reduces AoE damage multiplicative to a total of 65%. Rogues are pretty energy-starved, at least in the first season. But having a 20 energy Barkskin without cooldown is priceless. The downside is that Feint cannot be used while stunned. The Glyph of Feint increases the duration by 2 seconds.

Tier 4

Cloak and Dagger
Has a high synergy with Subterfuge and helps staying on your target, especially during Shadow Dance. Cloak and Dagger can be used for control. For example if a healer trinkets during a burst situation the rogue can use Focus Garrote/Cheap Shot on him and then use Ambush to go back on his target.
Opinions on Cloak and Dagger vs. Shadowstep are divided among the rogue community.

Shadowstep now works on friendly targets as well, which is great for taking hunter traps for example. It offers not more or less but different utility than Cloak and Dagger.
Opinions on Cloak and Dagger vs. Shadowstep are divided among the rogue community.

Burst of Speed
Does not break roots anymore. A choice rarely seen by rogues, but has some uses, like the nearly free Sprint while stealthed when used with Shadow Focus. The only Tier 4 talent that does not add Z-Axis mobility. If some day rogue flag carriers become viable it might...

Tier 5

Prey on the Weak
Offers more burst for the whole team during stuns. Solid choice.

Paralytic Poison
Paralytic Poison is on the DR with uncontrolled stuns like Impact but not with Kidney Shot or Cheap Shot. The Shiv effect is Partial Paralysis rooting the target for four seconds. Highly effective for shutting enemies down.

Dirty Tricks
Blind removing DoTs is also caused by the Glyph of Blind. The glyph effect also removes dots from other players. The zero energy cost on Gouge is pretty good and this talent could be a viable choice for a defensive setup in which the rogue shuts down enemies. Gouge can be dodged and without the glyph Gouge is unreliable against any class using agility as main stat. Probably only used by Assasination rogues.

Tier 6

Shuriken Toss
This talent alters the rogue gameplay and causes mage tears. Especially in combination with Deadly Throw rogues can now pressure from range. It does not proc utlity poisons. The damage is pretty high and makes rogue actually deal damage in arena. Especially for Assasination this talent is very strong. Nearly every high-rated rogue chooses Shuriken Toss in Tier 6.

Marked for Death
The only reason to not take this talent is Shuriken Toss. Apart from that this talent is crazy good and offers rogues a vastly stronger burst than without it. Focus Kidney Shot without the global cooldown from Redirect is amazing, too. Marked for Death is not on the global cooldown.

This talent was good in 5.1 but Marked for Death is simply better for PvP and Shuriken Toss seems to outshine both of them.

#3761245 Vishas and Hildegard's rogue guide - approved by Reckful

Posted WildeHilde on 06 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

7.) Glyphs

Glyph of Adrenaline Rush
Your Adrenaline Rush ability also reduces the global cooldown of your Sinister Strike, Revealing Strike, Eviscerate, Rupture, and Slice and Dice abilities by 0.2 sec.
Makes combat's Shadow Blades plus Adrenaline Rush burst stronger and therefore a must-have for combat rogues.

Glyph of Ambush
Increases the range of Ambush by 5 yards.
Not viable especially with the lack of Waylay in MoP.

Glyph of Blind
Your Blind ability also removes all damage over time effects from the target.
As Dirty Tricks will not be taken most of the time this glyphs becomes pretty mandatory unless playing combat without team-partners that use dots. But even combat uses Garrote of course, so leaving this glyph out is a risky choice. Blind with a 3-minute cooldown and a chance to be dodged is less important in MoP than it was in previous expansions.

Glyph of Cheap Shot
Increases the duration of your Cheap Shot by 1 sec.
Strong choice, especially when considering the 10% damage increase from Prey on the Weak. Also very good for defensive peeling builds with Nerve Strike.

Glyph of Cloak of Shadows
While Cloak of Shadows is active, you take 40% less physical damage.
With two minutes cooldown on Cloak not a very good choice unless facing rogue-killer teams. More viable when choosing Preparation in Tier 4.

Glyph of Crippling Poison
Increases the chance to apply Crippling Poison to your target by an additional 20%.
With the rogue 4-set bonus not a viable option.

Glyph of Deadly Momentum
Good for leveling. Not good for anything else.

Glyph of Debilitation
Your Eviscerate and Envenom abilities also reduce the target's movement speed by 50% for 6 sec.
With Crippling Poison on the rogue 4-set bonus not a viable option.

Glyph of Evasion
Increases the duration of Evasion by 5 sec.
Evasion got buffed as ranged attacks can now be dodged. Other options seem more attractive.

Glyph of Expose Armor
Your Expose Armor ability causes three applications of Weakened Armor.
Could be viable for Combat and Subtlety, especially when playing with a hunter.

Glyph of Feint
Increases the duration of Feint by 2 sec.
With Elusiveness and the Glyph of Feint you take 30% less damage for seven seconds, which is pretty decent for 20 energy. Elusiveness reduces AoE damage multiplicative to a total of 65%.

Glyph of Garrote
Increases the duration of your Garrote ability's silence effect by 1.5 sec.
Strong option, but weaker than in Cataclysm, as Prey on the Weak promotes using rogue stuns for burst and openers.

Glyph of Gouge
Your Gouge ability no longer requires that the target be facing you.
With many classes being able to dodge, parry and block Gouge this is an interesting option for lock-down builds with Dirty Tricks. This glyph probably allows to ignore Expertise against most setups.

Glyph of Kick
Increases the cooldown of your Kick ability by 4 sec, but this cooldown is reduced by 6 sec when your Kick successfully interrupts a spell.
Too risky for high-level play most of the time.

Glyph of Recuperate
Increases the healing of your Recuperate ability by an additional 0.5% of your maximum health.
A 16,7% increase on the healing of Recuperate. As Recuperate is a purely defensive finisher in MoP this glyph will probably end up being used for leveling only. Combat may use it, but the effect is too low in my opinion.

Glyph of Sap
Increases the duration of Sap against non-player targets by 80 sec.
PvE glyph, no use in PvP.

Glyph of Shadow Walk
Your Shadow Walk ability also increases your stealth detection while active. The increase is lower than one would expect. It is about one step further. Rogues are the only class that gets a glyph to counter themselves. An option against other stealth teams and for duels. It will screw with druids, which is always good. This video shows the glyph being used and the stealth detection distances.

Glyph of Shiv
Reduces the cooldown of your Shiv ability by 2 sec.
The Shiv effect of Mind Numbing Poison - increases the casting time of an enemy's next spellcast within 8 seconds by 100% - is strong, maybe too strong. The Glyph of Shiv is also a good option when choosing Paralytic Poison. The Leeching Poison heal effect is also something that might be interesting to use more often, but Leeching Poison is rather weak.

Glyph of Smoke Bomb
Something to consider when playing combat spec with a Moonkin and using Solar Beam plus Smoke Bomb combined. Let's be honest: rarely, but not never viable.

Glyph of Sprint
Increases the movement speed of your Sprint ability by an additional 30%.
Could work out for combat, but seems too weak for a glyph spot.

Glyph of Stealth
Reduces the cooldown of your Stealth ability by 4 sec.
Really liked this glyph for leveling on beta as you can always use Burst of Speed with Shadow Focus. As you drop out of combat after 5.5 seconds the effective value is a reduction of 0.5 seconds in arenas.

Glyph of Vanish
Increases the duration of your Vanish effect by 2 sec.
Possible abuse is staying in stealth for eight seconds with Subterfuge while having dots ticking. Might be good for duels.

Glyph of Vendetta
Reduces the damage bonus of your Vendetta ability by 5% but increases its duration by 10 sec.
20 second duration is long enough for Vendetta and matches trinket uptime nicely. May be an option to zerg down classes trying to escape with stealth.

8.) Macros

Important: Macros that attempt to trigger an ability on cooldown or an ability that is not available or can somehow not be triggered (Throw in melee range) cause 300-600ms delay. This is why Throw/Shiv or stance macros with Premeditation may be a bad choice. However there is zero delay for the Premeditation macro if it is off cooldown. Min-maxers may use more than one macro variant, depending on the cooldown, but this should be an extra thread instead of part of this already really long guide.

We created a guide video series on rogue keybinds and macros.

8.1  General concepts of macros
A list of macros might help you, but often times it's better to understand the mechanics. With understanding you can adapt the macros to your play style.

Rogues have four stances and you can trigger skills based on the current stance.
  • Stance 0 is normal, not stealthed
  • Stance 1 is stealthed
  • Stance 2 is Vanish when playing Assassination and Combat
  • Stance 3 is Shadow Dance

#showtooltip [stance:1/3] Ambush;[stance:0] Stealth
/cast [stance:0] Stealth
/cast [stance:1] Ambush
/use [stance:3] 14
/cast [stance:3] Ambush
Note: This macro uses stealth, when not stealhed casts Ambush, when stealthed and uses the second trinket and casts Ambush while in Shadow Dance.

Combat/out of combat
You can use the condition combat in order to make sure a skill is only used when in combat.
#showtooltip [combat] Vanish; Stealth
/cast [combat] Vanish; Stealth
Note: This macro will cast Vanish and use Stealth while out of combat.

Target, Focus, Arena, Party
You can use macros to target skills at certain targets. Without adding something a macro will use your current target.
/cast [target=focus] Shadowstep
/cast [target=arena1] Shadowstep
/cast [target=party1] Shadowstep
/cast [target=Hildegard] Shadowstep
Note: Depending on what you prefer you can let your macro target your focus target, arena enemy 1/2/3, party members 1/2 and specific players.

/cast [nomodifier] Feint
/cast [modifier:alt] Evasion
/cast [modifier:crtl] Sprint
/cast [modifier:shift] Cloak of Shadows
Note: Let's assume you chose A as hotkey for this macro. Pressing A will cast Feint, pressing alt + A will cast Evasion, pressing crtl + A will cast Sprint and pressing shift + A will cast Cloak of Shadows. Not saying this macro is a good choice, it should just show your options.

The best part
You can combine all these conditions, targets, stances and modifiers. There are more, but this should be ok for an introduction to macro mechanics.

8.2  General macros

Target/Focus Arena1-3
/tar [nomodifier] Arena1
/focus [modifier:alt] Arena1

/tar [nomodifier] Arena2
/focus [modifier:alt] Arena2

/tar [nomodifier] Arena3
/focus [modifier:alt] Arena3
Useful to save macro space. I have a small keyboard where F1-F3 is directly above 1-3, so I use F1-F3 for targeting and setting focus.

One Button Poison
/use [nomodifier] Wound Poison; [modifier:shift] Deadly Poison; [modifier:alt] Mind-numbing Poison; [modifier:ctrl] Paralytic Poison
With the new Poisonmechanic we need a new Poisonmacro. All you need to do with this one is to just press the modifier for the Poison you want and klick the button.

Note: I didn´t added Crippling and Leeching because they are not needed in pvp and the lack of modifiers.

Shadowstep on party members
#showtooltip Shadowstep
/cast [target=NameOfPartyMemberOne] Shadowstep
#showtooltip Shadowstep
/cast [target=NameOfPartyMemberTwo] Shadowstep
These macros let you shadowstep to your party members.

One bind Shadowstep on target and party one
#show shadowstep
/cast [nomodifier] shadowstep
/cast [modifier:alt, target=party1] Shadowstep
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
As always trying to save macro space. If you ever want to step to a party member it needs to be fast, so it should have a decent hotkey. Shadowsteps to the target without a modifier and steps to party1 if alt is pressed.

One bind Shadowstep plus Kick on focus target and party2
#show shadowstep
/cast [nomodifier, target=focus] shadowstep
/cast [nomodifier, target=focus] Kick
/cast [modifier:alt, target=party2] Shadowstep
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

As always trying to save macro space. If you ever want to step to a party member it needs to be fast, so it should have a decent hotkey. Shadowsteps and kicks the focus target without a modifier and steps to party2 if alt is pressed.

Blind Arena target
#showtooltip Blind
/cast [target=arena1] Blind
Note: Replace arena1 with arena2 and arena3 for the other macros. Good to blind any target without the need to target or focus them first.

Focus Redirect Kidney Shot macro
/target focus
/castsequence reset=59 Redirect, Kidney Shot
Note: This macro makes sure that Honor among Thieves procs cannot break the sequence.

Focus control macro
#showtooltip Gouge
/cast [target=focus] Gouge
Note: Simple focus macro. You can replace Gouge with other skills like Shiv, Blind, Dismantle, Cheap Shot, Garrote and Sap.

Focus and target macro for skills
#showtooltip Gouge
/cast [modifier:shift, target=focus] Gouge
/cast [nomodifier] Gouge
Note: One place on the bars and one hotkey with modifiers for target and focus. You can replace Gouge with other skills like Shiv, Blind, Dismantle, Cheap Shot, Garrote and Sap.

Sap macro for searching other stealthed players
#showtooltip Sap
/cast [stance:1/3, harm, nodead] Sap
Note: Very helpful to find stealthed targets. You need to have at least one other stealth macro or you could easily sap the wrong target as this macros switches the target constantly. I have four Sap Macros. One on target, one on focus and one that triggers Shadow Dance and saps the focus target.

One macro for different talents with Burst of Speed and Preparation
/cast Burst of Speed
/cast Preparation
/run SetMacroSpell("MyMacro",GetSpellInfo("Burst of Speed") or "Preparation")
Note: This macro has to be named "MyMacro", you can change the text within the macro, but the SetMacroSpell("MyMacro", has to match the name of the macro. When last testing this macro it had an delay of about 300ms. Also you need to press this macro once in order to update. Don't use Preparation by accident.

RBG Tricks macro
#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/stopmacro [mounted]
/cast [target=mouseover,help] [help] [target=focus, help] [target=targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade
Casts Tricks of the Trade on friendly targets with a priority: MouseOver, Target, TargetofTarget

8.3 Assassination Macros

Stance macro with Dispatch and Sap
#showtooltip [stance:1/2] Sap;[stance:0, nocombat] !Stealth; [stance:0, combat] Dispatch
/cast [form:0, nocombat] !Stealth; [stance:0, combat] Dispatch;
/cleartarget [stance:1/2]
/targetenemyplayer [stance:1/2]
/cast [stance:1/2] Sap
Note: Skills do bug in Vanish without stance when playing combat or assasination.

Assassination burst macro
#show Vendetta
/cast Vendetta
/cast Adrenaline Rush
/use 14
/use 10
Use trinkets and engineering gloves with the main damage cooldowns.

8.4 Combat Macros

Stance macro with Revealing Strike and Sap
#showtooltip Revealing Strike
/cast [form:0, nocombat] !Stealth; [stance:0, combat] Revealing Strike;
/cleartarget [stance:1/2]
/targetenemyplayer [stance:1/2]
/cast [stance:1/2] Sap
Note: Skills do bug in Vanish without stance when playing combat or assasination.

Combat burst macro
#show Adrenaline Rush
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Adrenaline Rush
/use 14
/use 10

Use trinkets and engineering gloves with the main damage cooldowns. Make sure Slice and Dice is up before using it.

Sinister Strike and Ambush stance macro
#showtooltip [stance:1/2] Ambush; [stance:0] Sinister Strike;
/cast [stance:1/2] Ambush;
/cast [form:0] Sinister Strike;
/startattack [stance:0]

Weapon switch macro
#showtooltip [mod] 0 16; 17
/equipslot 17 0 16
Note: Switches off-hand. Make sure you put the second off-hand in the right bottom corner of your first bag. Useful for combat when switching to a slow offhand for Killing Spree.

8.5 Subtley Macros

Stance macro with Hemorrhage and Sap
#showtooltip [stance:1/3] Sap; [stance:0, nocombat] !Stealth; [stance:0, combat] Hemorrhage
/cast [form:0, nocombat] !Stealth; [stance:0, combat] Hemorrhage;
/cleartarget [stance:1/3]
/targetenemyplayer [stance:1/3]
/cast [stance:1/3] Sap

Stance macro with Stealth/Premedation/Cheap Shot and /stopattack
#showtooltip [stance:1/3] Cheap Shot; [stance:0] Stealth
/stopattack [stance:0, combat]
/cast [stance:0] !Stealth;
/cast [stance:1/3] Premeditation;
/cast [stance:1/3] Cheap Shot;
/script UIErrorsFrame:

For more macros have a look at the Arena Junkies Rogue macro section

8.3 UI Scripts

/run local a=TargetFrameToT if not a then TargetFrame_CreateTargetofTarget(TargetFrame,"targettarget") a=TargetFrameToT end a:SetMovable(true) a:SetUserPlaced(true) a:StartMoving()
Note: Binds the target´s target frame on your curser, so you can move it. Use a hotkey for this, if you click it it may crash your UI.

/run TargetFrameToT:StopMovingOrSizing()
Note: Unbinds the target's target frame from your curser. Use a hotkey for this, if you click it it may crash your UI.

/run local a = TargetFrameToT if not a then TargetFrame_CreateTargetofTarget(TargetFrame,"targettarget") a=TargetFrameToT end a:SetUserPlaced(false) ReloadUI()
Note: Resets the target's target frame to its standard postion.

9.) Contributors

This guide is written by Vishas and Hildegard. The original intent was to create the basis for a guide for Reckful. Over the course of the writing this guide got bigger and better and when we finally presented it to Reckful he told us that we did not want to have his name attached to a guide he did not write himself, but that we should add "approved by Reckful". Reckful has read every word of this guide before it got published and approved the content after giving us feedback and asked for some corrections and additions.

Both of us are no native speakers, we tried to get the spelling and the grammar as good as we can, but it's far from perfect. We appreciate feedback to make the guide a better read.

As the guide was written during beta and without extensive 3v3 testing - it focuses on mechanics and is not a "do this and win" kind of guide. We will add more once MoP is out and keep asking the best rogues out there to give their input. Your criticism and your ideas for improvements and additions are welcome.

Additional contributors are
  • Pathal from the Elitist Jerks forum, he offered us early numbers on PvP Power vs. Agility and will include PvP Power into the rogue theorycrafting tools, which will make rogues the class with the best theorycrafting basis for PvP.
  • Deliantha aka Vadrak who helped us to test out Diminishing Returns in the Gurubashi Arena on beta and is currently working on an updated tournament UI for Mists of Pandaria.
  • Everyone giving feedback to the DR thread
  • Rapture who gave Vishas the beta key