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#4261177 My Thoughts on MoP PvP and the direction of WoD

Posted Talbadar on 11 November 2014 - 06:21 AM

Hey everyone. With MoP coming to a close soon I'd like to talk about how I feel the expansion has been for PvP as a whole. This means I'll be going over the negatives and positives of as many areas of the game as possible.

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Class Variety:
Class variety was at an all time high this expansion in all areas of PvP. At any given part of the 3 seasons we can say within reason that about 20 out of the 29 viable PvP specs could do well in arena when played by the right players. This is not to say they could get carried, but that the class had the potential to compete. This was certainly not the case in BC and Wrath. During Cata it became more apparent that Blizzard wanted more classes to be viable and they definitely followed through into MoP with this in mind.

Catch-up system: Not much has to be said here. The fact that you can show up a few weeks late with a character and still compete or better yet go from 0 gear to full gear on an alt at the end of a season is a world of difference from previous expansions. This improved the game so much for me and for many players who have alts that don't usually get geared before the end of a season.

Full PvP gear best in slot: After years and years of dealing with players using trinkets from raids that could increase their damage by 30% or proc extra attacks that hit for 20% of your health bar we finally got what we wanted. Blizzard introduced a system that made full PvP gear best in slot for almost any situation. As an arena enthusiast this made me quite happy.
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Class balance:
It's hard to say this without a lot of negative feedback about certain ones, but class balance as a whole was really good by the end of the first season and onwards. As I mentioned earlier many classes were viable, but most of the time they were still very competitive anyway.

Let's take a look at some of the classes we saw at regionals and blizzcon this year. I am familiar with only the US teams for regionals, but we had a Ret, a Holy Priest, multiple Marksmanship Hunters, a Shadow Priest, a couple Elemental Shamans, a Boomkin, multiple Frost Mages, multiple Resto Shamans, multiple Affliction Warlocks, a Mistweaver Monk, a Subtlety Rogue, and a couple Resto Druids. At Blizzcon we saw a couple Windwalker Monks, a Fire Mage, and an Arms Warrior. That alone covers a lot of classes and specs.

On the live ladders we saw a lot of different specs doing well and I can only count 8 specs that did not reach a rating of 3000 by the end of the final season which are: Disc Priest, Fury Warrior, Frost DK, Arcane Mage, BM Hunter, Demo Warlock, Combat Rogue, and Assassination Rogue. For all I know some of those could have made it.

Successful arena maps: Blizzard finally added new arena maps that didn't need major revamping to become a solid part of the arena map pool. They also revamped Blade's Edge and Dalaran for the better though I sometimes do miss the old Dalaran against melee. They still need to work on some of the map balance, but really you can't hate on what they did during MoP with arena maps. I would like to see them add Ring of Valor back to the map pool. The current one is actually a great map it's just disabled due to bugs.
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Merger of battlegroups:
The removal of set arena teams in combination with having a single player ladder and being able to queue with anyone you want has been HUGE for the game. You no longer have to sit on arena teams until the end of a season worrying about your rating. This has also decreased queue times and allows players to compare everyone at once which people definitely care about seeing.

Resilience, PvP Power, and Dampening scaling : While not everyone can say that they enjoyed having these stats around you have to commend Blizzard for getting the numbers right with every season. They had to manually adjust them with each season to make sure people weren't dying too fast, weren't healing too much, and ensure that games were actually coming to an end in a reasonable amount of time. They definitely could have done better with 2v2, though.

Streaming Influence: You may not like some of the streamers and you may have some that you love, but streaming has definitely made a positive impact on the game. A lot more players are better informed and many feel like they are part of something by being able to communicate with top players and other members of their arena community.
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Holinka BOYS:
This man has done wonders for our community and you should be more than happy if you know what he's been doing while working for Blizzard. He's been in contact with a lot of the top players and constantly looks for feedback to relay to help out. He's also attended the LAN events to talk to players and meet them which I'm certain was not required of him. I've spoken with him quite a few times and the guy's got a good head on his shoulders so we should be happy we have him instead of the whatever the hell came before him.
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Reliance on gear:
A common theme for this expansion and Cataclysm was a heavy reliance on gear to be competitive. While everyone thinks PvP gear should be the best in PvP, the reliance on having the best gear available to even come close to competing is frustrating. There have been times where I am missing 3 or 4 items and it feels completely hopeless to try knowing other people just do so much more with those few pieces.

Too much CC / Too many defensives: This topic has been heavily covered by so many people so I'll be brief to not bore you. The arms race went way too far this expansion. Instead of Warrior Charges Mage-->Mage Frost Novas it's now: Charge-->Blink-->Heroic Leap-->Nova-->Intervene-->Pet Nova-->Reflect-->etc,etc. Everyone just had way too many things to deal with each other and way too many simple reactions when taking damage or wanting to deal damage.
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Dampening in arena:
As both a tournament spectator and competitor I strongly believe that Dampening is a horrible concept for arena. This allowed for many things to happen. First of all teams could design their composition fully around winning because of Dampening and play around it. I don't think this was as relevant to ladders as it was at the actual tournaments. Both my team (ele, lock, druid) and the team that won this year (boomkin, lock, shaman) could easily attribute their success to its existence. It made for really boring starts to happen in a game where most of the action should be happening seconds into the match.

This also allowed Blizzard to balance the classes around dampening and not having to worry about if players could actually get a kill early on. Instead of fixing the issue they just took a shortcut around it by forcing games to end. I think having some type of ultimatum for games ending is fine, but the game should be balanced around players scoring kills before something like that is even necessary. On top of that it should be fair for both sides which sadly dampening is not. "The Crowd Chose You" is obviously not a good option either.
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Caster dominance at higher levels:
This has happened at the end of a lot of expansions for WoW now and I think it would take a long discussion to figure out why this is the case, but as you all have seen the past 4 years have been more of a Wizzcon than anything else. Melee make things exciting and even against two casters it creates a much more dynamic matchup to both play and watch.
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Reluctance to make small changes:
I've heard Blizzard's thoughts on this time and time again, but I still feel as if we're getting robbed out of a better experience. They don't want to make a lot of small changes because they don't think it will make a big enough impact and will only deter players from participating if the classes keep getting changed. When I look at a game like LoL that makes constant slight balance changes weekly I can only frown knowing it would be great for WoW PvP to follow suit. Changes like this one below make the game drastically different and makes some classes stay dead for very long while others get to overpowered states for entire seasons without change.
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Lack of tournaments:
No regionals in 2013, a few tournaments hosted online (that were, as usual, attacked by DDoS), and just a few LANs? We didn't do much these past couple years. Tournaments create life in PvP. It gives events for people to look forward to and it gives drama for players to talk about. I heard something about MLG thinking about picking up WoW again for WoD, but rumors are rumors.

Healer Variety: Specifically in arena only 3 out of 6 specs (Mistweaver Monk, Resto Shaman, Resto Druid) were viable at the end of the expansion. I'd say we didn't do a good job of ensuring viability among them especially with Discipline being horrible for almost the entire expansion. One could argue that each spec was good at some point during the expansion, but that's simply not good enough especially after coming out of Shamanclysm.
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Moving forward into WoD
Ability Bloat:
There are so many things I am looking forward to in WoD and one of them is the removal of a ton of abilities and cooldowns that were just making the game worse. A lot of people won't agree initially, but let me explain why it's a good thing. There are tons of abilities for you to use to outplay your opponents and you want to be able to use them all and it makes the skill cap really high... sure that's great, but there are plenty of great games out there that use very few abilities to do things well. As long as there are mini games to play then there is plenty of room for player interactions to make a difference and for players to have fun. Mini games are things like: positioning battles, the interrupt game, forcing/saving trinkets and cooldowns, and battling for objectives. There's so much more to PvP than just having a bunch of crap to press.

Interrupt and CC changes: The number one change coming into WoD is one that's been needed for so god damn long. The removal of Improved Counterspell (the strongest CC in the game besides Fear) and Improved Spell Lock. There are other Silences and small CCs being removed, but this really does add to the fun for both the Mage/Locks and other players. You feel like you get more out of a spell when you use it well and previously all we see is blanket Counterspells and there's not much interaction required. The more interactions between players the more room there is to outplay. Don't forget the nerfs to Fear duration, CC cooldown, and the removal of PoM Sheep, NS Cyclone, and other forms of instant full CC.

Focus on PvP: From what I gather there's been a focus on making PvP fun for this expansion and with Holinka on board I'm having positive thoughts on PvP as a whole. I would love to see 2v2 make a comeback as a fun bracket that you can queue with your friends where games actually end quickly instead of the current stalemates that happen. With less abilities cluttering the game the mini games should become more and more relevant instead of the previous cooldown war. You have to expect that the expansion will start out with some bumps. Maybe damage overall will be too low, healing will be too high, or Mages will one shot people with Ice Nova, but we will get there guys!

Hope you enjoyed. Feel free to post your thoughts on both the positives and negatives of MoP as well as what you're expecting moving forward.

#4256740 How do the majority of warriors feel here about our current state?

Posted Dizzeeyo on 08 November 2014 - 02:01 AM

View PostPinka, on 08 November 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

So anyone following Blizzcon or actually having a clue about this?
  • Abilities that have been balanced to mediocrity are not fun (Mortal Strike)

It was just shown on MMO.
refers to the previous changes made to the ability as an example of mistakes they have made, not to any upcoming changes :)

#4251187 rbgs have the highest skill cap

Posted Jahmilli_ on 03 November 2014 - 04:45 AM

View PostUnseenz, on 02 November 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

frequently players with peanut sized brains will make the argument that "3s has a higher skill cap than rbgs" whereas if they understood what a "skill cap" even refers to they would come to the realization that this is impossible

rbgs will always be both more competitive and stimulating for smarter players, those who are willing to apply knowledge of game mechanics to changes in the environment aka people who can think quickly in more than one dimension will come out on top.

let us for example imagine a situation in which two mice are placed in a box, and that they have to battle to the death. Clearly, the more physically capable, bloodthirsty mouse would come out on top and skill wouldn't be a factor [this is an analogy for playing a better comp, for all you arena people reading this].

RBGs definitely have a higher skillcap, there is so much more to do as almost every class, and the strategies can be much more complex than arenas. Unfortunately majority of the best players in the game no longer participate in them. They are far less competitive now than previous seasons, and the best teams are very mediocre compared to what they could be. The main reason people who struggle in arenas tend to excel more in RBGs aren't because they're easier, its because the teams beating them in arena don't exist in RBGs, they choose not to play them. The player pool is much much smaller.

Anyone who has actively played both RBGs and arenas at the highest level would agree its much more fun and satisfying to win a hard fought RBG with two amazing teams than to win any arena match, but nowadays that is INCREDIBLY hard to come by, it may not even exist anymore.

#4251565 How do the majority of warriors feel here about our current state?

Posted Drevi on 03 November 2014 - 04:39 PM

View PostZzx, on 03 November 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

I hate the playstyle of having a few abilties that do big damage and then having spare globals, not fluent, not fun

If you are gcd capped, you need to fill every gcd with mediocre skills to do competitive damage. That means your damage done will be directly proportional to the amount of uptime on your target.

If you have a couple of big hitters and a weak filler coupled with intended empty gcds then you suffer a lot less from not being on your target.
Right now as long as you keep rend up and are able to use MS and CS nearly on cd then you are not losing a ton of damage. You already unloaded you big hitters, you will miss just a couple of weak WWs (and if you are using the range glyph, that you should, then even less).

But who cares. Even without glad stance prot is melting faces.
Every time I look at the gladiators resolve talent I get a boner. Lvl 100 can't come fast enough.

#4243663 How do the majority of warriors feel here about our current state?

Posted Covlol on 26 October 2014 - 05:09 PM

View PostEzyo1000, on 26 October 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

Utility and survivability are things that they really took from wars. Shattering throw baseline again. Maybe some form of old utility arms and fury used to have in their old talent trees (UA for arms,  Heroic Fury for fury and have it effect heroic leap or even commanding prescence.) And as for survival, they could just tune up barrier for arms and fury. It's a good way to improve survival without making us op because it converts rage (damage) into defense so its a legit trade off and an easy tuning knob for blizz to adjust

You guys are forgetting the perk during the 90-100 leveling process that increases the DMR of Die By The Sword by another 10%. Utility I agree on, please god give Unrelenting Assault back to Arms!

#4233685 Protip if you happen to look retarded with new models.

Posted Sosseri on 15 October 2014 - 10:55 PM

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#4224436 All Inclusive Warriors in 6.0

Posted The_Observer on 05 October 2014 - 12:44 PM

View PostPinka, on 05 October 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I still don't get where you get the 20% speed from. Unless you pick up the glyph ofcourse. But that is already in the game and amongst the most unpopular ones aswell since it doesn't stack with the boots enchant. So in theory you move 12% faster. Unless the enchant is being removed from the game.

The tldr of that is all passives stack with most powerful temp. Also Speed enchants are 10% in wod and is on the cloak.  This glyph plus enchant is 30%.

#4220752 And we said the Russians were bad :3

Posted Speedymart on 30 September 2014 - 06:49 AM

View Postoluhcyppop, on 29 September 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

Does a 2200 team cheating against a 1300 team really hurt anybody?

those 1300 players are people too man

#4217740 All Inclusive Warriors in 6.0

Posted gravyrainbow on 26 September 2014 - 01:36 AM

View PostPinka, on 26 September 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

I do not mind having a harder time to stick to ranged. I do mind however that warrior is the only class that recieved mobility nerfs.
With no other melee recieving any legit nerfs. They all basicly got buffed since all their ranged counterparts got nerfed due to having to cast.

I can't imagine ever getting some away time as a mage vs a ret or feral. How will the mage ever get a breather? One deep every 30 seconds? Please make roots matter vs those classes otherwise were in for a silly season.

You can't escape a feral as a mage. I've spent a lot of time playing arcane on the beta and it's pmuch the only class I can't 1v1. Feral is the spec that everyone is whining about in general chat.

I wouldn't have so much of a problem with the mobility thing if you actually hit decently hard once you connect with someone, but I start to nerd rage when I spend 8s in a root, waddle over to some dude wearing a bathrobe and then hit him once or twice for 50k if I'm lucky.

#4208743 The Right Thing To Do

Posted Melbyz on 15 September 2014 - 11:55 PM

Hello friends and strangers!

Recently I've read many threads accusing people of ddosing and cheating. I myself has experienced it along with many others (Being ddosed that is). The right way to deal with these things, in my opinion, is to stop playing with the people involving themselves in these kind of activities. It is simple, you exclude them and their partners from RBGs, arenas, bgs etc. Wow is a game enjoyed the most when played with others and if you remove the "others" the game wont be so fun no more. But it is every single wow players responsablity to work against these kind of people rather than joining them.

Jaimexo made a thread just 10 minutes ago about someone in his team being ddosed by Kuliox and for some reason it got removed, and so did my response.

Yet again, this is the only real way to deal with this effective. It's not one person doing it, it won't go away when these people stop. Others will come and all we can do is boycott them as players. Exclude them in every possible way. When they come crawling back with apologizes, we just keep ignoring and excluding them.

#4198621 Sword and Board

Posted Drevi on 29 August 2014 - 12:05 AM

View PostPinka, on 27 August 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

The point is. It if it worth to swap shield 1h. You might achieve some armor. But you lose out on counter pressure + a global from swapping weapons can just as much be a live saver then that extra bit of armor.

You also lose quite a bit of hp. So if your healer it's on cc chain it's actually a bad idea to swap.

#4186813 Arena 5v5 titles will be removed

Posted Speedymart on 05 August 2014 - 10:14 PM

View PostElorxo, on 05 August 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

why are people wanting glad from 2s again?

its the most unbalanced thing to ever exist every warrior, shaman, monk and priest would get it whilst still being relatively shit in real brackets.

2s had a fuck huge variation of comps back in the day and double dps teams were plenty

People considered 2s THE bracket until it was removed. The community did not start brushing it off as skilless until after blizzard removed the titles from it.

#4186195 Arena 5v5 titles will be removed

Posted Bigmoran on 05 August 2014 - 08:38 AM

and of course someone will call me out for being bias or something, thats fine--i accept that. of the 2 rank 1 titles i've gotten this expansion, 1 has been from 5s. i always push for rating in the bracket im interested in. at the moment that happens to be 5s. lately i've had no motivation to push rating in 3s.


it just sickens me to see the naivety of the general AJ population and PvP population as a whole. the anti 2v2, 5v5, and RBG attitudes of this community are really bad for the game itself. if you like WoW and want to be playing it in the future, you should try playing every bracket. the same thing goes for blizzard. i think they might be killing an already shrinking pvp population with this change.

#4186192 Arena 5v5 titles will be removed

Posted Bigmoran on 05 August 2014 - 08:36 AM

thats dumb.

it was dumb of them to remove titles from 2s aswell. every bracket is competitive. the only reason to shove people into the small box of 3v3 is to streamline the game to become more of an esport.

the only reason 5s has a bad image is because of the cheating minority (myself included). there are fewer teams and more cheating teams, so naturally its the bracket everyone points to when they think of generally scummery. if you ignore the cheaters and focus on the actual competitive aspect of 5s, its definitely a bracket that should be respected. overall there are less balance issues in 5s (although R M SP RSHAM x is 100% the best comp), and many different comps can be successful.

#4185220 Deaf player hitting 2200 in 3s

Posted Elixa on 03 August 2014 - 06:22 PM

Hitting 2.2k 3 seasons in a row was pretty awesome for me. I ran god comp with friends for funzies, but didn't realize were doing so good for our first night of playing together at 2300 mmr and no they are not gladiators. So yeah thought I'd try this, in search of players for arena or rbgs. Over 2k-2.1k cr on 4 toons this season for both arena and rbg. Looking to play on my 2100 cr hpriest for both 3s/5s and 2040 cr dk for rbgs. 2k cr in arena as well, but prefer rbgs more on it. Maryjane#1856