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UnseenzMember Since 14 May 2009
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Posted Korzul on 27 January 2015 - 02:34 AM
Posted Serious_ on 28 January 2015 - 07:30 PM
This could possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever read. Individual skill plays a huge role in RBGs. It is possible to carry a player depending on how well the rest of your team plays, but it's also possible for one poorly skilled individual to ruin the game for nine other players. It goes both ways. Maybe if you're absolutely clueless when it comes to RBGs you can gauge skill by looking at damage charts. That would essentially be the same as RLS vs RLS and determining who was the better Lock based on damage alone - there's way more involved than that. Successfully landing interrupts, juking interrupts, knowing when you push offensively, when to play defensively, kiting melee, when to peel for your healers instead of CCing enemy healers. There's way more skill involved than pressing Shift+Spacebar and looking at damage.
And your "have a brain" argument is completely retarded. Is it hard to CC healers? No, of course not. That's a dumb thing to say. It's also not hard for the other team to CC your healers. It's also not hard to peel for your healers, or the other team to peel for theirs. It's not hard to spin our bases, or for the other team to spin theirs. It's not hard to defend against ninja caps, and it's not hard for the other team to defend against them either. It's not hard to juke interrupts, or land interrupts, or kite melee, or peel for healers, or pillar hump in 3s, or train healers until they die, or slay dragons. Hell, why even play this game when all you need are people with brains?!
The first part of this I can agree on. I'm hoping Blizzard eventually does something about the exploiting, fly hacking, and interrupt botting that happens. It's not acceptable and I hope that if enough people speak up against it Blizzard will step up and do something. DDoSing would almost go away (except for a few try-hard ddosers that grab IPs from forums and stuff) if people just stopped using Skype. The argument I hear the most is that there's voice latency in hosted solutions like TeamSpeak (I don't hear it), but you're essentially doing the same thing by choosing to filter your voice through a proxy. The moment you use a proxy it's no longer a direct peer to peer connection - which is why people chose Skype in the first place. And it's Microsoft for God's sake! Why don't we all start using IE too while we're at it?
The second part I don't agree on. Even though those things are a problem, not every team was required to run with script botting Locks, or fly hack, or any other exploits. I was Hero on all 3 of the Warlocks I play and I never use anything scummy at all. I'll plead the 5th on orb botting monks, but everything else I can comfortably say weren't used on my teams and we did just fine.
I'm personally looking forward to watching the tournament. I do find it pretty funny that it's taking place on Valentine's Day weekend, pretty much shrugging off the idea that anyone playing in the tourney or anyone that cares to watch has a girlfriend/wife.
Posted Prefox on 28 January 2015 - 02:00 PM
edit; if you need eu commentators im upppp
Posted Dizzeeyo on 27 January 2015 - 08:50 PM
Posted Reedztv on 27 January 2015 - 08:49 AM
This idea won't really work. It's a good thought on paper, get all the top teams to compete in rBG's, but sadly, it's not going to work. Sure it's easy to see who's cheating with botting/fly hacking or whatever. There is literally no way to determine DDoS'd though.
For example, Team A is playing Team B. Team C knows that Team B is better, so they ddos team A to instantly DQ Team B, that way they get an easier passage to victory. Or somebody not even in the tournament does the ddos'ing. Doesn't matter. What if both teams get hit when they're playing? Does that make both teams get DQ'd? What if somebody purposely DC's themselves and accuses a DDoS?
It's simply not going to work because the community is so putrid that they will go to any lengths to win. Especially when there is money involved.
Posted Datacuss on 27 January 2015 - 02:43 AM
Posted Redefined on 23 January 2015 - 04:18 PM
2. Faerie Fire needs to be changed. That ability is so broken beyond belief in the sense of ridiculous ranged slows *and* stealth protection without a CD.
3. Yes, please buff Shadowstep. It is such a cool ability with a ton of play-making opportunity.
Posted Djandawg on 22 January 2015 - 02:57 AM
Hey guys. For those of you who don't know, I've been playing twinks for quite some time now. Last summer there was a 19 twink tournament with a $1400 prize pool. Overall it was a fun time, but it would have been more interesting with a few more teams. This summer there will be another WSG tournament. We're looking to get a larger prize pool (ideally $3000+). If you have any interest in playing, please check out the twinkinfo thread above.
I am gonna participate with my friends, the only problem is this late announcement. We won't have enough time to make scheduling arrangements and to practice properly.
Posted Marshmellow on 15 January 2015 - 06:32 AM
Just so that you become better people one day.
Posted Phildk on 02 January 2015 - 08:12 PM
Posted Marshmellow on 01 January 2015 - 07:51 AM
Posted Okayenhance on 28 December 2014 - 05:42 PM
Posted Mallorea on 24 October 2014 - 05:52 AM
This is a guide targeted at someone who is new to rogues and doesn't really know how or when to use their abilities. If you're 2k+, chances are you aren't going to learn much from this guide.
I won't be going over talent choices, gearing, or openers as these have been covered in other guides by rogues better than I.
What I will be covering this guide includes:
Doing less dumb stuff
Line of Sight
Doing more awesome stuff
Nerve Strike + Prey On The Weak
Dealing with triple DPS mouth breathers
Cloak of Shadows
Dealing with annoying abilities other classes have
Die By the Sword
Warlock healing and other cast bullshit they do when they're about to die
Getting rating without getting better
Having a good UI is an extremely important part of getting better at your rogue and at the game in general. Having a good UI means that your UI is set up such that it lets you perform your actions efficiently and provides you with a substantial amount of relevant information. In order to accomplish this, we use keybindings, macros, as well as addons. A lot of high level players don't use a ton of addons because they can't use addons in tournaments, chances are you
aren't going to Blizzcon, so don't kid yourself and go ahead and use addons.
I'm going to start with the addons first because some of the addons I recommend help with setting up keybinds and macros.
This addon lets you move bars around easily, and allows you to easily keybind abilities without having to use the Blizzard keybind interface. 10/10 highly recommend.
This addon provides you with an arena frame that provides you with some important information. It tracks enemy trinkets timers, as well as diminishing returns. Let's say you used a cheap shot 15 seconds ago, it'll show you that the
diminishing returns ends in 5 seconds.
GladiatorlosSA is an addon that alerts you to when enemies use certain abilities, and when they get kicked. If a mage starts casting polymorph it will say polymorph, if a monk uses touch of karma it will say touch of karma. Note that
you need to have audio turned on for this addon to work.
Power Auras or WeakAuras
This one is a bit harder to use than the others, but is one that I find very useful. You can use it to track things such as trinket procs, buffs, and most anything you could want to track. I have it set to show me if my SnD has fallen off, as well as if my trinket has procced, and it also tracks my insight for combat.
I haven't tried WeakAuras myself, but I've been told that it's easier to use and offers certain things that PowerAuras lacks.
This thing tracks cooldowns. It's pretty cool. Drag and drop your abilities onto it, scale it to the size you want, and put it where you want.
Clean name plates, not neccessary, but useful for hunters and priests who drop target.
One of the less important addons, it tracks enemy CDs such as CC and kicks.
Macros are really important because they allow you to cut down on the time it takes you to do things. If you need to do multiple actions sequentially on a consistent basis, you're better off using a macro in order to cut down the time it
takes you to do these actions.
One of the more important uses of macros is focus crowd control. Having a macro to blind your focus is the difference between stopping, changing target by clicking unit frames, blinding, then switching back and pressing one button to
focus blind, or two if you need to switch your focus.
The general template for a focus macro is:
/cast [@focus] abilitynamehere
Template for focus macros with modifiers:
/cast [@focus, mod:modifiernamehere] abilitynamehere
I use focus macros for kidney shot, cheap shot, kick, blind, sap, and garrote; though you could benefit from adding gouge in there too.
The list of macros that I use:
/cast [@focus] kidney shot
/cast [@focus] cheap shot
/cast [@focus] garrote
/cast [@focus] Blind
/cast [@focus] Sap
/cast [@focus] kick
Focus Shadowstep Kick, hella cool, you press it twice and it kicks your focus after shadowstepping them. It'll make 1600 paladins say "Did I just get shadowstep kicked by a 1600 rogue?"
/castsequence reset=2.5 [@focus] Shadowstep, Kick
TARGETING MACROS HELLA IMPORTANT
To effectively use focus macros, you need an easy way to switch your focus target.
For arena you'll want macros to focus arena1, arena2, and arena3, you'll also want a macro to focus your target for BGs.
Spammable stealth, you can mash this button and you won't break stealth
/cast [stance: 0] stealth
General Burst macro
Replace X by Shadow Dance, Vendetta, or Killing Spree/Adrenaline rush. The cancelaura vanish makes it so that Shadow Dance doesn't bug out if you use this right after hitting vanish.
/cast Y Gladiator's Badge of Conquest
Macro to find people in stealth, spam it while looking for stealthies, it'll automatically sap someone when you see them.
Healer shadowstep, use included in the section on shadowstep
/cast [target=healernamehere] shadowstep
Alright, now that you have your macros and addons to keybind easily, you'll want to set up your keybinds. The thing about keybinds is that they have to be functional and they have to make sense.
Now what does this mean?
If you're likely to press buttons in rapid succession, you want to be able to do so without contorting your hands into an awkward position every time you need to do so.
If you need to use an ability on the move,you don't want to have to press it with the same finger you use to move. Makes sense, right?
If you use an ability often, you're going to want an easy to press keybind, rather than one that's hard to press. If you use an ability less often, then you can afford to have a bind that's harder to hit.
If you need to hit an abilty at key times, then you also want it to be easy to press. You don't want to have to hit ctrl-alt-shift-Y every time you need to kick someone.
When keybinding things, you're going to eventually come to the realisation that you can't put all your abilities on your bar without using modifiers.
This is where having binds that make sense comes back into play.
You want to have similar abilities on similar keybinds. Remember those focus macros we have? Why put kick on 5, and focus kick on something completely different like z? Putting kick on 5 and then focus kick on shift 5 makes it easy to switch
between kicking your target and you focus target. You'll find that doing this for all your CC is pretty effective. To save bar space, use focus macros with modifiers, the template is listed above.
Having a mouse with lots of buttons helps. I put my targeting macros on buttons that are close together and similar. Focus arena 123 are on my naga 10, 11, and 12.
I'll include a link to an imgur with my UI if you want to see how pretty my binds are.
Doing less dumb stuff
Alright, so you have your addons set up, and you have your keybinds set up. Time to learn about things that you can easily screw up.
Rogues have a lot of useful cooldowns that can be used both offensively and defensively, and if waste them you can end up without any buttons to press and as a result an easy target.
The defensive cooldowns that are easiest to screw up are your cloak, vanish/prep, and your trinket.
Cloak is a great ability because it can be used offensively and defensively, and knowing when to use it is important and is very situational. You can use cloak offensively to prevent or break CC allowing you to feely burst someone down, or you can use it to not eat a chaos bolt when you're at 20% HP or 2 fingers of frost ice lances followed by an instant frostfire bolt. Knowing when you can get away with using it offensively is something that comes with practise.
But as a general guideline you can get away with using offensively almost all the time against melee cleaves when a healer is CCing you, whether it be to peel or to kill someone. You can use it against caster comps if you feel you're
not likely to be swapped to and you think it will help you score a kill. The lower rating you are the less likely you are to be targeted so you can be really greedy with your cloak, but be careful.
A rogue without a vanish, prep, or cloak is a dead rogue. Chances are, your 1600 healer isn't very good. So having a vanish in your back pocket to use when that TSG swaps to you and gets you to 20% is really useful. With prep you have 2 vanishes, so you can afford to use one and you'll still have an extra one. It's also important to note that vanish will keep you in stealth for 3 seconds before moving you into stealth at which points dots will break stealth. You can cloak off most dots, with the exception of bleeds, this is mostly useful in 2v2 or in BGs where you may not have a healer to dispel dots and you need to stealth or you'll die.
Holy shitballs the trinket. The amount of 1600 players who will trinket a sap is too damn high. Though the amount of 1800 healers who won't trinket your sap while you kill their warrior in the opener is also high, which is nice. When you use your trinket will depend on the comp you're playing against, but there are some times when you want to save it or you'll die.
Against other rogues. If you trinket a polymorph playing against RMD, and then die in a smokebomb because you didn't have a trinket, that's on you bro. The more you play the more you get a feel for when you want to or don't want to trinket. You get the most value out of your trinket when you trinket at critical moments. If you trinket a cyclone right when you're about to get a kill, and then you get that kill, that's a good use of your trinket. If everyone on your team is 90%+ HP, and everyone on their team is at 90+% HP and you trinket, what's the point in that? You accomplished nothing except you wasted your trinket. The most important times to trinket are when you are going to score a kill, or when they are going to score a trinket if you don't.
Line of Sight
Jesus Christ is line of sight so easy to screw up.
Here's an example of what not to do:
You're on Tiger's Peak and your healer is on one side of the far pillar from you. You go on the left side of the pillar closer to you. You have no trinket. Enemy rogue bombs on you.
You die. That's your fault.
If you have no outs, don't line of sight your healer. They can't heal you if they can't see you.
Here's another example of a warrior screwing up line of sight:
Nagrand arena. Druid healer is in stealth. Warrior runs to the other side ASAP. Goes around the pillar. Pops recklessness (old reck for arguement's sake). Dies to RMP opener.
Kicking people at low rating is pretty easy. They cast a spell, you press kick. They get kicked. The higher rating you go, the more healers actually know how to fake cast.
The exception to this is obviously the resto druid who doesn't have to cast anything (not serious).
Fake casting is when you start casting a spell. and then cancel it in an attempt to get someone to waste their interrupt allowing you to free cast. You can avoid being faked by
kicking ASAP, or really late. The later they are in the cast the less likely they are to cancel it because you're less likely to be able to interrupt it because of latency, and they think they
can get it off because they're greedy. Most DPS at 1600 won't know what fake casting is, so you are more likely to get a kick off on a 1700 mage than a 1700 paladin.
Stop spending your energy when you get it
You don't want to live paycheck to paycheck with your energy consumption. You want to have the energy required to do things when you need to. If you're pressing backstab every time you get the energy to do so, you aren't going to have the energy to keep up feint when you need to, or to focus cheapshot a healer at a critical moment. Energy management is a topic best covered by rogues who are actually good, but in short you want to pool your energy rather than spending it when you get it. Having a nearly full energy pool means you can burst
by depleting it all at once with shadowdance or by mashing backstab, it means it you can keep up feint and still have energy to do things. You can ignore this if you're playing assassination because venomous wounds and 150 energy pool. (semi serious)
Doing more awesome stuff
You have a lot of abilities that you can do cool stuff with. The more cool stuff you do the better the people you play with will think you are, and maybe you'll even win more. Here's some of the cool shit you can do.
This probably seems really obvious to some people, but at the start of the game you want to get a sap off.
Start in stealth, pop shroud after their rogue if they have one, sprint and sap their healer, cheap shot the non kill target DPS, and open on the kill target.
Shadowstep is one of the coolest abilities we have because of all the awesome shit you can do with it.
Shadowstep can be used to jump back to your healer. Hunter trap? Naw, shadowstep your healer and eat that trap. Do awesome shit that makes 1600 players say damn.
Shadowstep kick. Your 1600 healer is in the middle of the map because they don't know what a pillar is. Their druid starts casting a cyclone? Naw, shadowstep kick that shit. He'll be confused.
Getting trained on Blade's Edge by a mouth breathing TSG team? Naw. Jump off the edge and shadowstep one of them as they're jumping down. Now you're up top, they're down below, and your healer can top you off.
Hunter disengaged/mage blinked/druid used displace beast? Naw. Shadowstep.
Warrior is about to charge you? Naw. Shadowstep at the same time as charge and switch places with him.
Some of you may still want to run burst of speed. Cool. You can run at the same speed as the other rogue running burst of speed and watch him get a restealth.
Feint is cool. If you run elusiveness it's a defensive CD you can spam. If you're likely to get swapped to, glyph it before the match and keep it with 5 seconds up at times when you might get swapped to. This way you'll have it up for the
entire duration of whatever stun you're likely to get stunned with.
Nerve Strike + Prey on the Weak
I don't know how many of you have read these talents or how many just saw them recommended in a guide and took it, BUt shit's important. Nerve Strike reduces damage dealt by the
target by up to 50% and their healing by 10% for 6s after a kidney shot or cheap shot ends; that's huge. Imagine this, you're playing against TSG and the warrior and DK pop their swofty
macros and go ham on your healer. You cheap shot both of them because you're running subterfuge and now they're doing 50% less damage.
Prey on the Weak increases the damage take by people who are disabled by your kidney shot, cheap shot, gouge, sap or blind by 10% from ALL sources. That means your partner does more damage
when you stun or silence someone. That's tons of damage.
Dealing with triple DPS mouth breathers
At low ratings you'll find a lot of mouth breathers running triple DPS. This is one of the few times that I would recommend Cloak and Dagger. With Cloak and Dagger you can apply
nerve strike to all of the DPS stopping their idiot damage train right in its tracks. With focus macros this looks something like setting your focus on one, cheapshotting your target
and focus, then swapping focus and cheapshotting focus again.
Cloak of Shadows
I've previously mentioned some of the stuff that can go wrong with cloak, but here I'm going to mention some of the cool stuff you can do.
Pre-emptively cloaking CC.
If you're 1600, chances are your healer isn't going to dispel a blood horror, so you may find yourself needing to pre-emptively cloak blood horror if you think it will help land or prevent a kill when you aren't likely to get swapped to.
If you see a priest run into melee, chances are he's going to fear and you can cloak it.
If a warlock sees 2 or 3 people around him, he'll probably howl of terror and you can cloak it before it goes off.
If you're running GladiatorlosSA, you'll have better awareness of when people are casting CC. If you see someone hard casting cyclone/poly/fear/hex on you, and you can't kick it you can cloak it.
Against frost mages, cloak basically lets you go ham on their ass without any CC. The logical equivalent of freecasting but for melee.
Remember, don't cloak if you're likely to get swapped to. Cloaking CC is best done when it'll help you score a kill or prevent one.
Gouge is great. You get Prey on the Weak, and you get to just stall. This ability is great for peeling. You just press it, and they stand there for 4 seconds while your healer fixes stuff.
"What does this ability even do? Do I even need it on my bar?" You might be asking yourself. It applies a better version of crippling at a 70% slow, and dispels an enrage effect.
It is what it is. Keybind it, use it when you need a better slow that won't get dispeled or you need to remove an enrage against a warrior.
BUT THROW DOES NO DAMAGE (rip shuriken toss)
Correct. But it keeps those pesky rogues and feral druids, as well as those drinking healers, in combat. Throw knives at people, keep them in combat.
Sap is great, but its targets can't be in combat. Luckily for you a lot of CC lasts 8 seconds, and it takes 6 seconds to get out of combat. So if you blind someone, you can vanish or shadowdance and get a resap.
This thing is pretty straightforward. Chances are if you need to spam feint, you need to have this up. It gives you health. Because you die when your health gets to 0, this can help prevent your death.
Smokebomb is one of those CDs than can be used offensively and defensively, though usually you'll be using it offensively. Smokebomb has a 3 minute cooldown, that's a really long
time so chances are you won't be seeing 2 of these in your average match, so make it count. You ideally want to bomb on someone when you can kill them. Sometimes this means when
you have all your burst CDs, sometimes it's when you and your partner can connect on them and they have burst. You want to make sure that you can keep them in the smokebomb.
This means that you want to make sure their trinket is down in most cases. With mages, you want to make sure that they can't blink. They can't blink if they are silence, have just blinked, or are arcane locked. As far as defensive use goes. You can't cast into an enemy smokebomb. So you can drop it on a team mate who is getting trained by ranged.
Dealing with annoying abilities other classes have
Generally when these happen you won't be doing any damage to the target. But what's important to note about these abilities is that you can't cast them if you are locked in that school of magic.
If you kick a holy paladin who is at 40%, which is realistic at 1600, and you can kill them in the next 5 seconds, they're likely going to die because they can't bubble.
Mages can get out of this lock by using Cold Snap, but likely a lot of 1600 mages don't know this and won't do it, or won't be able to if it's their second block.
Die By the Sword
DBTS makes warriors parry everthing and take 20% less damage. However you can't parry from behind, or while stunned. So if you can get behind them, maybe via shadowstep, you can stun them and they can't parry.
Alternatively if you're playing with a or mage, they can shadowfury or deep them, at which point you can follow that up with a DRed stun. If you're playing with a pretty good shaman
they can cap totem and then totemic projection it, but that's asking a lot at lower ratings.
Fucking monks, how do they work? Beats me. But what I do know is that you can use cloak on touch of karma. If you're doing 2s with a bad DPS, they won't notice that a monk put karma on you, and they'll continue to train the monk.
This is where cloak comes in handy. Touch of karma is a debuff on you that then applies a dot which hurts like hell. You can cloak off the dot, but you can't cloak off karma.
So after you pump out damage you can cloak off the karma dot.
Warlock healing bullshit/Other caster bullshit they cast when they're about to die
Silencing the kill target is usually a great idea. Thankfully you have a silencee called Garrote. Garrote the kill target and they can use less healing bullshit.
Death Knights have a lot of abilities classified as spells, so silencing them can be pretty devastating. Most anything that does spell damage can be silenced, you can also silence
AMS and Death Grip. It's basically like silencing a caster.
Feign death. Tidy plates. Do it up.
Disengage, do I have to tell you? Shadowstep.
Traps. You can eat them for your healer using shadowstep or cloak if they're not likely to dispel you or you can get away with cloaking it.
Mages can blink and stuff. Blink breaks stuns. You can't blink when you're silenced. Garrote into a cheap shot means you can actually stun mages.
Roots. vanish breaks roots, and cloak let's you do the melee equivalent of free casting. In duels mages will often save block for dance and or cloak.
If they're holy just tell your mage/priest to dispel hand of sac before you CC them.
If they're ret see this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMxtLLY8cRo&list=UUiITnfxXjZzYrBupmMIdnoA (not sure if I can post links yet)
But real talk though. Ret healing is going to be a pain in WoD.
Silence them and kill them? They heal and stuff so silence is important.
Shadowstep the displacer beast.
Cloak faerie fire if your 1600 healer won't dispel you.
Train the blue.
Kill totems. Pre-emptively cloak cap totem if you need to. Train the blue?
Pre-emptively cloak things if you need to? Give up on killing things when pain supp comes out. Swap during life swap if you think you can score a kill, don't if you think you can benefit more from the pressure of getting another DPS low while the priest tops themselves off.
Tidy plates helps for when they drop target with spectral guise. Effective focus macros help you reapply focus when they drop it.
How to actually get better
Play the game.
You get better at 3v3 arena by doing more 3v3 arena.
When you lose a game, try and realise what you screwed up and what you could've done better. Why do you think there's a section on stuff you can screw up? Because I've screwed stuff up.
You can benefit from dueling a lot. Dueling helps you learn what other classes do and how to beat them.
2v2 arena past 1800 when you're queuing into Healer/DPS can help you learn how to set up kills.
Get a microphone. Communicating with your team helps a lot. Tell your 1600 healer when you're rooted and need a dispel, call out CC chains. You don't need a 120$ mic, just go get a 20$ mic from your local electronics store.
How to get rating without actually getting better.
Play combat and go balls deep in the opener with RMD or play some stupid cleave. You can beat a lot of bad teams by just doing tons of damage and CCing healers who trinket dumb stuff.
This section will be updated once I'm sure that I can post links.
i.imgur.com/u6NArLg.jpg - UI
Posted Winkay on 06 December 2014 - 11:18 PM
This car is going at ONE HUNDRED MILLION MILES PER HOUR, WHY DID THE POLICE NOT ARREST HIM, LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE