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CreamoMember Since 18 Apr 2009
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Posted Covlol on 14 November 2015 - 05:51 PM
Posted Thaya on 11 October 2015 - 07:56 PM
I guess it depends on the country:
they cracked down really hard on the shit so there was barely any of it available
so junkies had to junk
i did laugh irl like a fucking idiot at the idea of u going to ur dealer every few days and being like
can i have the cheapest shit atm?"
Posted Malladon on 11 October 2015 - 01:27 PM
Let me elaborate a bit... boosts have been around forever, we all know that. It didn't really become a huge thing until the end of wrath and then it totally ballooned out in cataclysm. The issue with boosting (for all you guys that have your head up in the clouds about how amazing you are) is that the majority of the arena population will never be as good as you. This isn't the spread from 2800 down to 1500, I'm talking about 2800 down to 2400, the peak of the ladder to the bottom edge of gladiator dipping into duelist territory.
This has been the truth even back when you could go into trade chat and in 15 minutes find 2 guys who could and would play a 20-30 game session at 2400+ just because it was fun. You know, that spooky era before Real ID when we actually found other people in WoW just by talking to them *perish the thought*. You used to be able to do that because before Real ID the WoW community was much more open to just playing with whoever (when's the last time you took your main and just LFG'd some people for 3s? that's basically the equivalent of trade chat partners these days). On top of that, there are legitimately A LOT LESS people playing the game now. With arena already being a small sliver of the population playing the game, when the game itself shrinks, our population and the community takes a more noticeable hit. Even though we nominally lost less people than the PVE, Solo Dungeon/Question crowds, we had a lot less to start with, and it pushes our community below a threshold that maybe you would consider... active/thriving.
So while in the past boosting wasn't as huge of a deal because we all sort of vanished into the general population (not to mention the fact there was this huge buffer of gladiator/duelist ranked teams playing for the most part below you guys), this isn't the case anymore.
In shorter terms, there are a greater number of boosters active in the arena community now more than ever, and there are less people in the community now more than ever. The result is that boosted teams and toons take up a much larger percentage of the ladder. So to guys who consistently hit glad anyway, don't care about hitting glad, or are part of the of the R1 crew doing the boosts... to most of us it's just life as normal.
The people who we, by boosting, are FUCKING over, are those guys who used to fill that middle crowd, the duelist/gladiator border. Because let's face it, a community of the top .1% spread out over the top 3 ranks in the game (R1/glad/duelist) is a shit ton smaller, and a shit ton less fun than the top 3% of the community constantly fighting it out for a slot. The one thing that I really can't see being argued is that this game is so much more fun when it's hype, and there's no way to get that hype if you're giving the majority of the playerbase that much of a reason to not bother at all.
I could see countering this argument with saying, Well that's the best practice they're gonna get, and it'll help them improve, and for me that would be such a fun game to play against a R1 guy.
I agree to some extent, and when I was still one of the guys trying to break through to glad, I did enjoy playing against boosted teams because holy shit the games were great and they pushed me to be better. I liked playing against the main team so much more though. You know why? When I played against a boosted team I had all the intensity of a top tier match and reason to play my best, but I had the fucking stakes of a -24 because they were starting as some fresh 2k mmr shit. I'm a shitty enough player at the time, I don't need more pressure for me to make a mistake when I'm probably getting read and outpaced on every play already.
It wasn't as big of a deal for me also because I was in high school/college at that time, spending 4-5 hours q'ng arena wasn't a huge deal to me, and getting a good session in when the booster stopped playing was a pretty reasonable idea. For the rest of the world? Even me now that I'm into that horrible RL thing? I'm lucky if I get that much time to q in a week these days, between coordinating with partners, all our schedules lining up, etc. If I'm an on the edge player, and I've gotta risk 3-4 -20's every time I FINALLY get to log in and q up, it's gonna get fucking discouraging.
When I play against the main team the pressure is on them to not make a mistake. They actually had something to lose if they didn't pay attention to me. That not only levelled the playing fields, but also made it fun. On the flipside of that, I totally hated dropping 20 points to some 2400 shitter beastcleave because they targetted my squishy. GGWP
But the problem is those 2400 "shitters" are the majority of the "good" portion of the ladder in the grand scheme of things. The guys who are into the game, watch the streams, get into arena, and want to get better. Like it or not these guys are a big part of what keep the game alive. And personally I love nothing more than playing with guys who have potential, and who actually get into it. If you're discouraging these people from playing, you're encouraging our already shrinking community to shrink even moreso.
Which hey, you have every right to do, it's easy enough for me to stand on some moral high ground now that I have no reason to boost. Even back then I enjoyed making SC videos, doing 1 on 1 training with guys or even doing old school carries more than the boosts (too much paranoia, made it a lot less fun). But the truth is that if there's going to be any semblance of this game taken seriously, and if it's going to have any chance of being a thriving... scratch thriving, halfway enjoyable community as this game makes its inevitable decline, boosting has got to go.
And I would be 100% behind Blizzard taking a strict stance on boosting.
Posted Voksen on 11 October 2015 - 08:37 AM
I somehow doubt there is much of a market for boosts with how shitty WoD/WoW are. Boosting as a thing in general games? Sure, I'd even expect it to be on the rise with the growth of 'gaming culture' and esports. But boosting in WoW -- talk about weak. Its a 10 year old game that is dying and on the way out. wtb supply/demand data.
So I just don't buy the "easy money" argument. Maybe somewhat easy money if you're 14 y.o. and skilled at this game and basically unskilled at everything else in life. Seriously. Remember that by getting good at a video game you're getting bad somewhere else. No free lunch. For what life/time is worth, you'd be better off logging hours at IT/networking -- i heard you can make a killing ddos'ing entire RBG teams. Or coding bots. Or learning Russian. All these services are in demand and the skills are transferable.
Oh and don't get me started about how elo ratings work. As others have pointed out, boosting changes the cutoffs and percentages. So you just make shit toxic for everyone. Its a clear violation of the ToS and I'd be careful advocating it even on AJ.
Posted Jim_Jim on 11 October 2015 - 08:29 AM
Some people had good education (which is clearly not the case for most of people here.), and learn to not break the law, or the established rules. Blizzard set rules for their games, you are not the owner of your account, you can't play other account.
Maybe it's good for the ladder.
Maybe it's good for your money.
Maybe "people are too shit to understand lol" (What a brilliant argument by the way, especially the lol at the end, /clap.)
But it's against their rules. Period. So it should be punished.
In my position, it doesn't bother me at all, really, i don't really care of people being boosted or people boosting (After 11 years in this game, i learn to be a complete cynical guy and play now only for me and not for others), good for you if you can earn money by breaking rules, i refuse lots of boosts demand just because i don't want to make this game another job, i already have one. (You know, the thing when you get paid for doing stuff?). When i play a game, it's because i have fun playing. A concept you clearly forgot with your despicable answers and your behavior.
Each person have his own opinion i guess.
Posted Beargryllsx on 11 October 2015 - 03:23 AM
Ok, calling the opposition "too shit to boost" and some teenager memories, very good so far, very nice.
One would ask for a source on this 99% statistic because it was particularly mentioned as a fact. The problem is, what the fuck is even being said here? Is this an argument?
It's starting to get really awesome here, imagine being George Clooney, stealing that golden egg from Ocean's 12 (don't watch that - Ocean's 12 is fucking gay) and defending yourself in court with those arguments.
Almost spot on, except that you don't earn Gladiator by defeating Gladiator players, but by being on a certain spot an a ladder at the end of a season.
Dizzeyo made an example: If there were 500 glad spots and 20 characters were boosted, then 480 characters would get their deservedly earned glad title, 20 pve/archievement guys would get it, and 20 guys who actually played 3v3 arena would get duelist instead.
If you don't understand this, Uegene made another example: Imagine being a 100y dash competitor who wanted to make it to the Olympic finals. Suddenly you realise, 7 obese dudes paid Usain Bolt $200 to run and qualify for them. So it's Usain Bolt and seven fat cripples in the finals. Would that be great (e-)sport? Of course you could not beat Usain Bolt, but you might have a chance to run in the finals which would be a great a experience (glad) nonetheless.
So the only people not being hurt by boosting are players below 1,9 or above 2,4? That's actually a lot. It's ruining their game, you said it.
Aaaand closing out with nonsesical brabbling, your typical AJ post.
Posted Fedx on 11 October 2015 - 01:23 AM
Posted Nicholaes92 on 10 October 2015 - 09:45 PM
Posted Sniz on 08 October 2015 - 03:05 AM
/cast !cat form
It will remove roots without ever leaving the form therefore no chance of being caught out of form, I think it's a good idea to make one for travel and bear form aswell. Then have separate cancel form macro if you ever need to exit form.
Posted abolishedtehe on 09 October 2015 - 04:10 AM
Posted HeyimJack on 06 October 2015 - 11:36 AM
Posted Forumz on 01 October 2015 - 07:26 PM
Posted BobbyChong on 01 August 2015 - 07:07 PM
Holinka joined Blizzard in August of 2012 and this will mark his third year of being at blizzard.
Cdew has been to blizzcon 3 times.
Lets take a second to breathe here as this is a lot to take in.
Three amigos, working at blizzard for 3 years and going to blizzcon 3 times the number 3 occurs a lot.
Lets put these numbers together to get 333.
The number 333 is not very significant but if we double 333 we get 666.
We now have 666 which is known as the 'number of the beast'!!!!!!!
Holinka is the devil confirmed?
Will Cdew win Blizzcon this year?
Find out in the next episode of World of Ashran.
Posted Flakkar on 26 December 2014 - 10:05 PM
Here we go again folks! It's about time for the 6.2 version. Everything is different now and 2h is taking the back seat while DW appears to be the best early in the season with amazing sustained pressure and the ability to mow plate wearers into the ground!
TLDR: See my 6.2 frost stat priority and gear suggestion at the bottom.
Jan 13, 2015 - Haste rating effect buffed by 11.1%, Icy Talons buffed to 20% haste, up from 5%. Note that tooltips in the game are not updated yet (possibly requires a client patch), but I can confirm the changes are live due to seeing them on my stat sheet. See edits in green throughout the post.
July 12, 2015 - Updated for 6.2. See edits in blue throughout the post!
(*) means I assume it's correct if not bugged but I didn't test it. I'll put this next to things I take for granted.
(**) means I actually tested this to prove that it is indeed this way. For brevity, I didn't outline how, but I can if requested.
(?) means I'm not sure, but if someone could test this somehow, it would be great
Let's start with seconday stat ratings and how much damage they contribute.
Rating points required for 1% increase (** tested this myself):
Let's take a realistic but nice looking number of how much of each stat you could stack, say 1000 rating points.
For 1000 rating points you would get:
In addition, most stats scale linearly with the exception of stats that add flat % bonus damage ( Versatility and Mastery), which become more and more powerful as you add other stats.
NOTE: Crit and MS are nerfed in PvP! This may be obvious to some, but a lot of people don't take this into account when calculating stat priorities! Each Crit does 150% damage instead of 200%, and there is only one chance at a 30% MS instead of two chances. This also applies to heals!
Taking the nerfs into account, let's do an average damage increase you would get from each stat if you stacked 1000 rating worth. I will not account for burstiness here, because getting a string of lucky crits of multistrikes can always happen, but it will even out in the end, and you don't want to rely on pure luck to win arena matches.
Haste (13.86% (given infinite uptime) DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
Haste is a good stat for frost and provides excellent boosts to sustained DPS. Here's why:
Icy Talons(10% and 20%) and Unholy Aura(5%) apply multiplicatively, all haste you equip is getting multiplied by 1.1*1.20*1.05 = 1.386.
Let's take an example:
I have 15.50% base haste with nothing equipped. Icy Talons gives 10% flat, plus an additional 10% modifier on every other haste effect except Unholy Aura for some reason. Unholy Aura gives 5% flat, plus an additional 5% modifier on every other haste effect. This gives 10 (icy talons) + 5 (unholy aura) + 10*0.05 (unholy aura bonus to icy talons base 10%) = 15.50. I am an NE so I get 1% Haste at night, but I did this test during the day where I did not have that 1% buff to Haste. I also did the test at night and the numbers I see are consistent.
Icy Talons (recently buffed) also adds 20% more of the equipped haste stat.
When you add Unholy presence on top, it adds yet another factor, multiplying (not adding to) every source of haste by another 10 or 20% (depending on spec), as well as adding its own 10 or 20% base amount.
1000 Haste rating / 90 pts per % rating * 1.386% extra for Frost DKs = 15.4% Haste, but let's use 15% for the sake of example since it's a nicer number.
- 15% haste means 15% faster attack speed, which means 15% more auto-attack damage (**).
- 15% haste also means 15% more Killing Machine (KM) procs (**) due to increased attack speed.
- 15% haste also means 15% faster rune regeneration (**), meaning that (for ex) over 100 seconds, a rune would fully cycle 11.5 times instead of 10 if you depleted it instantly every time it came back.
- Haste does NOT affect the GCD because it's already capped at 1 second (**).
- Haste does NOT affect diseases (**).
- Haste does NOT affect Conversion, or Breath of Sindragosa (BoS), or any skill that says it ticks "every X seconds".
- Haste does not fully kick in immediately once you start attacking. At first you will get faster auto-attacks, so about 2.6-3 seconds after you attack, you will get a second auto-attack that will be sooner with more haste. But after that, it will take around 7 seconds for runes to start coming back due to higher haste.
- Haste does not affect diseases. From my tests, diseases seem to compose at most 10% of my DPS. I don't personally think it's worth noting spread damage from having it on multiple targets as Frost spec. The damage is so pitiful that it will not factor into you winning games. You are not a rot spec.
- Haste does not affect the GCD.
- Haste does not affect Breath of Sindragosa while it's up, so it will not make it burst faster. However, it will make your runes come back faster, which might allow BoS to stay up longer due to the extra runic power you will have. This only applies for 2h because BoS is bad as DW.
- Haste can at most affect the recharge of 3 runes simultaneously. If you don't have one rune of each type depleted, then Haste's contribution is being reduced. If you have 2 runes recharging, then you're getting 66.7% of Haste's effect. One rune is 33.3% etc.
- Haste is uptime dependent. (See below for uptime explanation) This means that if you can't keep one of each rune type constantly on cooldown, then you won't get all of its DPS increase.
- Haste also adds some utility because you will be able to use Icy Touch more often for purges, plus more uses of Chains of Ice, and you will have more RP for interrupts, Conversion, and Dark Simulacrum.
- I also see a lot of people saying that if you have a crappy connection, Haste is worse. This may be real if you lose some time after runes come off cooldown. Try switching to Unholy presence and feel the effects of 10% more haste. Imagine that effect in Frost presence where you don't lose the RP gen, and see if it would be better for you.
- There is concern that there's such thing as too much haste. This is true to an extent. As you stack more and more haste, Versatility and Mastery (DW only) become more powerful, so you don't want to stack haste. You just want some of it.
Crit (3.64% DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
Yes, Crit is really bad, and probably the worst stat for Frost, including DW. Here's why.
1000 rating / 110 rating per % = 9.09 Crit chance for 1000 rating.
So we are adding a 9.09% chance to do 50% additional damage, meaning on every attack that can crit we are adding 4.545% damage.
- Diseases can Crit! Actually all damage a DK does can Crit! (*)
- But there's a catch: Killing Machine. KM guaranteed Crits means the your Crit is useless when KM procs! Based on my tests, about half of my Oblits and Frost Strikes are used when KM is up. If you are really good at managing your resources, it might be more than half, but let's assume half for now. On my tests, my Frost Strikes and Oblits (2h or DW) combined do between 40-50% of my overall damage no matter if I'm bursting, or just normally DPSing. So that means that if half my oblierates/frost strikes don't use KM, then my Crit is not being used half the time, so the real Crit contribution is more around 4.545% * 80% = 3.64%.
As Blizzard themselves have said, Crit and MS are equal, even in PvP.
1000 rating / 66 rating per % = 15.15% MS chance for 1000 rating.
So we are adding an 15.15% chance to do 30% additional damage, so by simple math: 15.15% * 30% = 4.545% damage increase.
- Every attack can MS, including diseases. I am not sure if Death Strike healing can MS (?), but I am pretty sure that Conversion cannot (?).
- Multistrikes can crit! And KM procs (if they proc MS), will automatically Crit on the MS proc.
For 2h Mastery is kinda weird and hard to calculate, but it proved to be pretty crap in 6.1. Now in 6.2, DW is heavily favored due to the savage buffs to Frost Strike and Howling Blast. So much so, that Mastery is easily the best stat for DW.
1000 rating / 55 rating per % = 18.18% Mastery for 1000 rating.
- This means 18% increased Frost and Shadowfrost damage (**). But how much of our damage is actually Frost or Shadowfrost?
- For 2h: According to my tests, I get between 25-40% Frost damage (when doing regular dps), averaging around 33%. Strangely enough, this applies even when doing crazy burst with BoS, because you are not using Frost Strike.
- For 2h: So therefore 18.18% * 33% = ~6% damage increase per 1000 Mastery. This beats Crit and MS assuming at least 25% of your damage is Frost or Shadowfrost, which is a pretty safe assumption.
- For DW: According to my tests, I get between 67-70% Frost or Shadowfrost damage (when doing regular dps).
- For DW: Therefore 18.18% * 67% = ~12.2% damage increase per 1000 Mastery.
This is the easiest one to calculate. This is a great stat because it offers healing and defense bonuses.
1000 rating / 130 rating per % = 7.69% Versatility for 1000 rating.
- 7.69% Versatility means 7.69% more damage across the board on all damage DKs do (*).
- 7.69% Versatility means 7.69% more healing on Deathstrike, and other heals that are not %life based. Versatility does not increase Conversion healing!(**)
- 7.69% Versatility also means 3.85% less damage taken from all sources (*).
- The PvP target dummy at the Glad Sanctum takes double damage from crits instead of 50% more - probably a bug. Multistrikes are also causing 2 strikes instead of 1.
I didn't test anything for Strength, but it almost never overlaps with secondary stats, so not much to discuss here. Even if it does, Str gets so many insane %-based bonuses from DK passives and procs that it easily outdoes the other stats (*).
Putting it all together:
- All the numbers are for 1000 rating in isolation. Some may wonder if it changes when you throw all the stats together and in different amounts. It does make a difference for % damage increase stats like Mastery and Versatility, but you need thousands of rating points to see a difference. I once graphed it out and found the sweet spots and everything, but it's not worth showing here. I think the conclusion is: stack % damage stats and just get some of the rest while avoiding crappy stats like Crit.
- Strengh is most likely the best stat in all cases, unless someone can prove otherwise.
- For 2H: Haste and Versatility are both really good. Haste is better in terms of pure math, but Vers benefits your early burst more (i.e. the first 7-8 seconds of DPS after starting with full runes). We are looking at 13.86% more DPS (but not in the first few seconds of damage) vs 7.69% more DPS (active at all times). Haste's benefits will only fully start showing up after runes start coming off cooldown. During the initial burst, you will only gain the increased auto-attacks and KM procs. Versatility does have the healing and damage reduction benefits, though they are less important for DKs compared to the damage benefit, and Haste has some built-in survivability too due to the rune regen for Death Strike, and extra RP for Conversion. This could make a great discussion to see which is better, Haste or Vers. Looking at the DK gear though, it looks like you can usually get them both together. If your connection sucks, or you think that Haste feels worse when you play, go for Vers since it is by far the best other choice.
- For DW: Mastery is hands down the best, followed by Versatility due to the % damage increase nature. Crit and MS remain crap, and Haste is somwhere in the middle. Haste is nice to have, but not nice to stack.
- I have studied the uptime requirements of Haste and here's what I see: you are getting 100% of Haste's effect if you constantly have at least one rune of each type on cooldown. That is, you must have at least 1 death rune, 1 frost rune, and 1 unholy rune on cooldown. Haste also increases autoattack speed, but most of the benefit is in the runes, not the autoattack. It's probably common knowledge that only one rune of each type can be recharging at a time (if not, see Haste section above). Haste DPS is only worse than Versatility if you are sitting on
two runes of the same typetwo rune pairs for a significant period of time. I have been checking my runes for a few weeks now, and I am almost never sitting on two rune pairs while in combat (except at the beginning when all runes are up, but it takes only 1 GCD to put enough runes on cooldown). Even if you're kited, you are still using icy touch for purges (thanks Scoot), chains of ice, howling blast, etc and using up those runes.
- There is no doubt that for 2H, Vers is better for bursting. Haste doesn't help you much if you're blowing ERW and Plague Leech.
- Crit is flat out the worst from the numbers.
So the stat prio for 6.2 DW Frost in my opinion is the following ('>>' means much better).
Str >> MA >> Vers > Haste > MS >> Crit
The stat prio for 6.2 2h Frost remains:
Str >> Vers > Haste > MS >= Mastery >> Crit
Go DW this season. The pressure it puts out is unreal! Hope they don't nerf it...
Here is my best attempt at putting together a gearset that satisfies the above.
Note: For DW I'm recommending the 4 piece bonus, but I'm not 100% sure that it's the way to go. You gain 10% more frost damage, but you're trading around 5-6% DPS and 1% damage reduction for it. If it turns out that 4 piece bonus uptime isn't close to 100% during bursts (uptime seems pretty good from my experience), then we should ditch all the set pieces and stack mastery.
Armor option 1: 4 set pieces
Helm: Set helm
Shoulders: Set shoulders
Gloves: Set gloves
Legs: Set pants
Armor option 2: 2 set pieces
Helm: Set helm
Shoulders: Set shoulders
Trinket1: Str with on use Vers
Trinket2: If human the alternate Str trinket or Vers+proc Str one. If any other race, the 800 Vers stun breaker trinket.
Weapon Enchants: Fallen Crusader mainhand, Razorice offhand
Final projected bonuses:
+8.4% MS option 1, +12.7% option 2
+43.3% MA option 1, +47.2% option 2
+11.5% Vers option 1, +13.5% Vers option 2 (with 800 Vers trinket)
+7.4% Crit option 1, +2.9% option 2
+15.5% Haste option 1, +11.1% option 2