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Posted Capstone on 11 June 2013 - 04:42 AM
most of the time, i spam one button with all of my cooldowns, then i press arcane shot (bound to 1 for quick access) until the other team is dead. my main problem is honestly having the other team die before i can make full use of using all my cooldowns again with readiness. i, like most hunters (i imagine) do not care about the abilities their pets are using during stampede.
one of my stampede pets is a worm, and another one is a porcupine. i think their abilities are on autocast, and i don't even know what the worm does to be honest.
i will, however, be enjoying a 10% buff to damage on arcane shot.
Posted Crawthz on 25 May 2013 - 11:25 AM
I've given this alot of thought lately: "Which way is the best way to gear in 5.3?" So I decided to make a thread about my thoughts and what I think that maximizes the gear you have from damage PoV. Also one of the reasons is the heavily nerfed burst we have now (PvP Power gems and scaling + Incanter's Ward nerfs), I am trying to maximize my damage just to get most out of my Shatters.
We got fairly huge item budget to go with now that 5.3 hit Live and Resilience and got nerfed. For example, Int/Hit is now equal or even better than Int/Power.
So, first of all, gems.
Intellect in every single slot where the socket bonus doesn't give Intellect.
Ignore socket bonuses on Chest, Boots and Legs, because these give you less damage if you follow the socket bonus.
Int/Hit on blue (maybe even int/power, not sure about that yet)
Int/Mastery on yellow (or Int/Haste if you need to hit a certain haste breakpoint, more later)
You want to reforge 12.5% (5316 rating) haste, or more. Rest into Mastery. You should reforge all Crit away into Haste or Mastery while keeping Hitcap.
Why 12.5%? Because after that, you wont gain any damage at all. Highest Haste I've seen now is 15.5% and with that, Polymorph cast time is 0.05sec faster, Frostbolt 0.02sec and Frostbomb 0.03sec. I don't think that is much of a reason to go full-out on Haste.
12.5% is also the only Haste Breakpoint you can reach with current gear on Living Bomb and Nether Tempest, without using Frost Armor and playing with Shadowpriest/Eleshaman, and you'd lose 3000 Mastery and reduction on magic CC OR 16% physical damage reduction.
And well, in my opinion; it's pointless to go too much above Haste Breakpoints, because you lose stats that could increase your damage. Then again, haste is lovely stat and I love faster casts, but you could ask yourselves: "Is 5 millisecond faster Frostbolt worth it when you shatter with Deep + Orb?" You wont gain 2nd Frostbolt anyways.
But if you love fasters casts with going full-out haste, it's perfectly viable way to go. Just from damage point of view, it's not worth it.
Right now, with nerfed PvP Power and Resilience gems, the best way is to go with anything that gives you 320int, but do remember that having Blacksmithing always turns out to be the best, just because you can choose what gem you put there. I run BS/Enchanting myself right now and it seems to be one of the best options.
Then again, if you want to go full out proc heavy style, use Tailoring and Engineering with PvP Proc and PvE Proc trinkets (Darkmoon card is prolly the best if 2/2 upgraded)
If you want to use any, you should use the Darkmoon Card; Relic of Yu'lon 2/2 upgraded. I think everything else is more or less nerfed.
Rest of the PvE gear is not worth it in my opinion, outside of the PvE legendary meta and the PvE head you need to use it with, but I'd stay full PvP gear for now.
I wanted to add this into gearing aswell, because this is what affects your playstyle and gearing aswell, quite heavily infact.
I would go Living Bomb in any setup I am playing, unless the comp allows me to play Frostbomb. Nether Tempest is out of the equation from now on, that bastard wont break my polymorphs anymore!
If, however, you like to go full out haste and love the style, you should consider using double Hit/Haste rings, 491 2/2 upgraded Malevolent and Tyrannical one. These two can achieve the highest amount of haste possible.
If you have any points I might have missed out or if you feel that I am completely wrong, please write down below what you think about this.
Here's Haste Calculator for Living Bomb and Nether Tempest, it's very handy for haste calculations
Posted Smetig on 06 September 2012 - 12:28 PM
Posted Batenx on 05 September 2012 - 05:08 PM
Posted Eldacar on 03 September 2012 - 01:00 AM
***With the release of Patch 6.0 leading up to Warlords, this guide is fully out-of-date, a full re-write is in progress***
Eldacar's Guide to PVP Power & Resilience
Hello PVP'ers! For those of you that don't know me I go by Eldacar and I am a long time PVP'er and PVP Theorycrafter, as well as a member of Blizzard's forum MVP program. I write PVP focused guides and do everything I can to help the PVP community grow and prosper, which is why I wrote this PVP Stats Guide. You can find me on twitter as @EldacarJS and on the US Official Forums as [email protected] This guide goes into a lot of detail and gets into some complex stuff in a few places, if you have questions leave them in the comments and I will answer them as best I can.
** PATCH 5.4 CHANGES**
- The base damage reduction of Resilience was increased to 72%.
- The Resilience rating to damage reduction conversion formula was altered.
Summary & Key Points:
-Resilience has linear returns, +100 Resilience rating increases your effective health by 1.235% relative to displayed health.
-PVP Power has linear returns, +400 PVP Power gives you +1% damage or healing in PVP (before spec modifiers).
-The latest season's PVP gear is generally the best gear for instanced PVP, however in world PVP players with heroic raiding gear will have an advantage.
-PVP Power does not cancel out a target's Resilience but it will still help you hit them or heal them harder.
-It is generally ineffective to gem for PVP Power, gemming for primary stats is more effective in most cases.
-The PVP trinket set bonus offers roughly 8.25% effective damage reduction and will always increase your effective health by 32.11% of your displayed health.
Table of Contents:
Section 1 - Resilience
1A - The Exponential Returns of Damage Reduction
1B - The Diminishing Returns of Resilience Rating
1C - Baseline Damage Reduction
1D - Effective Health
1E - The Full Scale of Resilience
1F – Resilience on Items
Section 2 - PVP Power
2A - The Absolute vs Relative Returns of PVP Power
2B - PVP Power's Interaction with Resilience
Section 3 - Gemming for PVP
Section 4 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks
Section 5 - Appendix
Appendix A - Valuation and Frame of Reference
Appendix B - Formulas
Section 1 - Resilience
Everyone reading this likely already has at least a general understanding of how Resilience works; its fundamental purpose is to provide percentage based damage reduction against all damage done by players, the more Resilience you have the less damage you take. That is fairly straightforward and easy to understand; however understanding how the stat scales and all the factors at work is more complicated. There are three main factors that go into how Resilience scales, first is the exponential returns of percentage based damage reduction, second is the diminishing returns of Resilience rating, and third is the baseline 72% reduction that all players have in PVP.
Section 1A - The Exponential Returns of Damage Reduction
The effects of percentage based damage reduction scale exponentially, the more you have the more valuable additional damage reduction becomes. For example, let's say someone is hitting you for 100 damage, if you have 0% damage reduction and you add 1% that 100 damage is reduced to 99 damage, a 1% effective reduction. However if you already have 90% damage reduction and you add another 1% that 100 base damage which was already reduced to 10 is now further reduced to 9. That change in incoming damage from 10 to 9 is a 10% reduction in actual damage taken by adding just 1% of damage reduction.
Here is a graph that shows how the value of damage reduction increases as you gain more:
As you can see at 50% damage reduction additional reduction is worth twice as much as normal, at 90% its worth ten times as much as normal. This kind of scaling isn't unique to Resilience, armor and any other percentage based damage reduction (even in other games) function the same way. Games control the overall scaling of these mechanics by manipulating how fast you are awarded the damage reduction.
One additional note on this, in World of Warcraft different damage reduction mechanics have multiplicative relationships NOT additive, what that means is that the value scaling for any one of these mechanics is only accurate within that one mechanic. At 50% damage reduction from Resilience an extra 1% from Resilience is effectively worth 2%, however none of this has any bearing on the value of additional damage reduction from say armor, that scales totally independently but in a similar fashion. Because these defensive stats scale independently from each other and have a multiplicative relationship they can each be examined and valued independently.
Section 1B - The Diminishing Returns of Resilience Rating
For Resilience the main factor that counters the exponential scaling of percentage based damage reduction is the diminishing returns on Resilience rating. The more Resilience rating you have the less damage reduction is awarded by each additional point of rating, as shown in the graph below. This is how Blizzard controls the overall scaling of Resilience as a whole, and it is what they change when they want to alter the way Resilience scales.
As you can see in the graph, the amount of additional damage reduction provided by additional Resilience gradually declines as Resilience rating increases.
Section 1C - Baseline PVP Damage Reduction
Mists of Pandaria added a new factor to the way Resilience scales, the baseline PVP damage reduction that all players have which was increased from 65% to 72% in patch 5.4. What this has effectively done is significantly shrink the damage reduction gap between under geared players and fully geared players. This combined with the limited availability of Resilience on gear and through gems has significantly lessened the impact of resilience as a stat at level 90. The difference in damage reduction between a fresh level 90 and someone in the best possible pvp gear is now relatively small.
Section 1D - Effective Health
Effective Health (or EH) is perhaps the most critical metric for measuring survivability. Effective health is essentially how much pre-mitigated damage it takes to kill you. If you have 100k health and 0% damage reduction your effective health is just that same 100k. However if you have 100k health and 50% damage reduction your effective health is 200k, because someone would need to do the equivalent of 200k pre-mitigaged damage to kill you.
It is also important to note that more than just increasing the size of your effective health pool, damage reduction also increases the relative effectiveness of heals on you. With 50% damage reduction a 1k heal actually restores 2k of effective health. This is one of the reasons why increasing your effective health through damage reduction is better than increasing your effective health an equivalent amount through raw stamina.
Effective health is really the stat that best indicates the value you are getting from Resilience and it is the stat you need to be paying attention to when evaluating the survivability of your character. Effective health is displayed on the graphs below as a percentage relative to displayed health, an effective health (EH) value of 150% for a player with a 100k displayed health pool would mean that player has an effective health from just Resilience of 150k. When you factor in other effects like armor and damage reduction from talents your EH is higher but we are just looking at Resilience by itself here.
Looking at effective health over the full scale of resilience as shown below illustrates how the exponential returns of damage reduction and the diminishing returns of Resilience rating combine to cancel each other out and generate perfectly linear returns.
As you can see the effective health returns of resilience are perfectly linear, adding 100 Resilience rating will always increase your effective health by 1.235% relative to your displayed health.
Section 1E - The Full Scale of Resilience
This next graph brings it all together displaying both the scaling of damage reduction and effective health based on Resilience rating at level 90 in patch 5.4.
This graph should drive home once again that although the damage reduction you get from additional Resilience diminishes the more you get your effective health continues in a linear fashion anyway thanks to the increasing relative value of that damage reduction.
Section 1F - Resilience on Items
At this point you may be thinking "I want to get as much resilience as possible and become totally unkillable!" which sounds great, but unfortunately it is a bit impractical. Although there is no Resilience cap you are extremely limited in the amount of resilience you can get in game on current season items. Most fully geared players will have around 3375, which is what you get from the PVP trinket set bonus and the PVP meta gem. The lack of resilience on gear is not a big issue because currently a player with nothing but the baseline 72% reduction already has 357% effective health, which is more than most fully geared players had at the end of Cataclysm.
For those of you contemplating using a PVE trinket or two here are some facts to help you make your decision. The 2600 Resilience offered by the PVP trinket set bonus provides roughly 2.31% additional damage reduction from baseline, which is about 8.25% effective damage reduction after factoring in the value scaling. Furthermore the set bonus will always increase your effective health by 32.11% relative to displayed health, so if you are currently at baseline you would go from 357% EH to 389% EH.
Section 2 - PVP Power
PVP Power is a relatively new stat introduced to the game in Mists of Pandaria which acts as the offensive compliment to Resilience. The idea behind this new stat is to encourage players to use PVP gear in PVP by putting major PVP-only offensive gains onto PVP gear (or in the case of healers, healing gains). PVP Power increases all damage done to players (under all circumstances), and healing done (while outside PVE-instances), by a percentage that increases based on how much PVP Power rating you have. The amount of each bonus you get is also dependent on your class and spec.
-Healing specs receive 100% of the healing bonus but 0% of the damage bonus
-All other specs receive 100% of the damage bonus and a partial healing bonus depending on class.
-Damage specs for Druids, Monks, Paladins, Priests, and Shamans receive a 70% healing bonus.
-All other specializations and classes (including tanking) receive a 40% bonus to healing from PvP Power.
PVP Power is currently the primary differentiator between PVP gear and PVE gear. It is a "free" stat on PVP gear, meaning it is not factored into the item's stat budget. As a result when comparing PVP items to PVE items of the same item level all the general-purpose stats should be equivalent but the PVP gear will have PVP Power on it as well making it a better choice for PVP. This fact is particularly important due to the presence of item level limits in all instanced PVP. The item level limits change with each season, but their purpose is to limit the item level of PVE gear to be equal to or lower than the item level of the current season's PVP gear. These two factors together generally ensure that the current season's PVP gear is always the best gear for instanced PVP. However the item level limits do not function in the open world, so in world PVP a player in the latest heroic raiding gear will likely (and unfortunately) have a large gear advantage.
Section 2A - The Absolute vs Relative Returns of PVP Power
PVP Power's scaling is very straight forward; it has linear returns when looking at it in an absolute sense, adding 400 PVP Power will always give you another +1% damage or healing in PVP depending on your spec. So every additional point of PVP Power will increase your damage/healing by the same amount. However I have seen some players around the forums describing PVP Power as having diminishing returns, and they are correct to an extent.
If you evaluate the returns of PVP Power in a relative sense it does have diminishing returns, going from 0%-1% will give you the same absolute damage increase as going from 30-31%, but in the latter case that damage increase is smaller relative to the damage you are already doing. Virtually everything in the game operates the same way. Think about primary stats for example; +3000 strength would give a warrior a pretty nice bump in damage right now. However if Blizzard said "Hey we like you random warrior!" and bumped their strength up to 100,000 then that +3000 strength would suddenly be worth a lot less to them even though it would still increase their damage by the same amount. The reality is that in order for a stat to offer you consistent relative gains as you gear up the stat would need to have increasing absolute returns, in other words it would need to give you more and more damage or healing the more of it you got. (For more info on absolute vs relative valuation see Appendix A)
Now it is time to look at the actual scaling of PVP power, which is shown in the graph below.
As shown in this graph PVP Power's returns are perfectly linear. You gain either +1% damage or healing for every 400 PVP Power you have, this is also the “baseline” upon which the reduced healing bonuses for non-healing spec are based. The red line shows the healing bonus for hybrids (70% of baseline), and the yellow line shows the healing bonus for everyone else (40% of baseline).
Section 2B - PVP Power's Interaction with Resilience
The most common misconception that most players seem to have about PVP Power is that it acts as a kind of "Resilience Penetration" which counteracts the target's damage reduction 1 for 1, that is simply not true. PVP Power increases your damage by the percentage shown in your stat panel, it always increases it by that same amount regardless of how much damage reduction the target has. Your outgoing damage is calculated first, then the target's damage reduction mitigates that damage according to their stats.
Take for example a warrior who's swing always does 100 damage in PVE. This warrior gets a +50% damage increase from PVP Power in PVP, so that 100 damage get's increased to 150 damage in PVP. This warrior has now decided to attack a paladin that looked at him the wrong way. Lets say the paladin has +50% damage reduction; so when the warrior's 150 damage hits him it is reduced to down to 75. That is how PVP Power and Resilience interact, the outgoing damage is boosted up by PVP Power, then the total incoming damage is mitigated down by Resilience.
Section 3 - Gemming for PVP
One of the most popular questions I get is "What should I gem for?" Unfortunately I cannot provide a clear cut answer to that question. The answer is dependent on your gear level, class, spec, play style and more. My recommendation is to check how the pros of your class/spec are gemming, and then experiment to see what works best for your personal play style. However I will say that it is typically ineffective to gem PVP Power at level 90, gemming primary stats is generally more effective for damage or healing.
Choosing the best gem for survivability is significantly more complicated. Stamina gems will almost always provide you with more effective health, but Resilience gems don't lag too far behind in the effective health they add. Additionally Resilience gems scale up in value proportional to the amount of healing you receive because they increase the amount of effective health restored by that healing. For now I recommend gemming for resilience if you are looking to increase your survivability, but I will look at this topic in more depth in a future guide.
Section 4 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks
I hope that this guide has been illuminating for everyone that has taken the time to read it, I have tried to provide as much accurate and detailed information as possible about the way these stats work. If you have questions about these stats or about anything written here feel free to ask and I will do my best to get you an answer.
I error checked this guide many times however I am still human, so if you believe you see an error please let know and I will look into it. I also want to make it clear that although I am a member of Blizzard's Forum MVP program I am NOT a Blizzard employee and nothing in this guide is based on any kind of inside information. All the data in this guide was all generated based on direct in-game observation and calculations based on that observed data.
-This guide is written for level 90 players, the numbers are different at lower levels
-This guide just underwent a major update and revision, if you notice a typo please let me know!
-Some of the graph types from previous versions of the guide have been removed to reduce the complexity of the guide, but may return in the future.
Section 5 - Appendices
This is some additional information about some of the ideas, concepts, and data discussed in this guide. Additional appendices may be added over time as needed.
Appendix A - Valuation and Frame of Reference
Absolute valuation compares numbers based on addition and subtraction, IE going from 30% damage reduction to 60% damage reduction is an absolute gain of 30%. Relative valuation compares numbers using ratios, IE going from 30% damage reduction to 60% damage reduction is a relative gain of 100%. Why is this important? Because taking the example a step further, going from 60% to 90% is an absolute gain of 30%, exactly the same as before, but it is a relative gain of 50%, half as much as before. So if this trend were to continue, it would signify linear absolute returns but diminishing relative returns. This guide primarily uses absolute valuation because it is much easier to understand and work with when comparing a large number of data points to a common baseline.
Frame of reference is another critical concept for evaluating data, particularly when most of the data is in percentages. There are two basic methods that can be used to evaluate a string of data points; constant frame of reference, or progressive frame of reference. Constant frame of reference uses one common baseline value as a reference point, every data point is compared to that baseline. In contrast a progressive frame of reference compares each data point to the data point before it. Take for example this set of data points: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. On a graph using a constant frame of reference they would be displayed as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (all data points were compared to a baseline of 0). However on a graph using a progressive frame of reference they would be displayed as 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 (each data point was 1 larger than the number before it).
Using a constant frame of reference makes it much easier to evaluate the actual changes in the progression of a data set, where as using a relative frame of reference allows you to better evaluate changes in the rate of change over the progression of a data set. Since we are more interested in the actual changes than the rate of change when viewing the scaling of stats I chose to use a constant frame of reference for the graphs in this guide.
Appendix B - Formulas
The formula I use to calculate damage reduction from resilience in patch 5.4 is:
Reduction % = ((28900*0.72)+x)/(28900+x)
x represents resilience rating.
The formula I use to calculate damage increase from PVP is:
Damage increase % = x/400
x represents PVP Power rating
Posted mukuld50 on 12 December 2011 - 03:37 AM
I would like to thank you all for the awesome support that you gave us. We definitely did not expect this to be as big as it was over this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think that any recent WoW event (besides Blizzcon obviously) has been able to generate the viewership numbers that we did over the weekend.
Below are some statistics from the two-days:
Saturday, December 10:
Average concurrent viewers: 3824
Maximum concurrent viewers: 6453
Unique visitors: 104,843
Sunday, December 11:
Average concurrent viewers: 5235
Maximum concurrent viewers: 7762
Unique visitors: 45046
With a total of: 963,770 page hits and 1,224 followers in only TWO days.
Continue to show us this kind of support, and we may actually be able to bring back WoW as an e-sport again . I know that there were a LOT of Blizzard people watching, and we have already created the buzz for them.
A huge shout out to Vhell and Hoodrych for their awesome shoutcasting, and Chris ThorMANN, Biotox, Novoz, and Austin for putting in the countless hours that they did to make this happen, and of course SKILL CAPPED for supporting us and making this possible financially.
Anyways! What did you guys think of the tournament? The games? The organization? Please to post anything about any aspect of the tournament here. We are learning, and we definitely want to make this as good of an experience for the WoW community as possible. Post any kind of suggestions / feedback / comments / questions here!
Thanks again all, and expect to see another tournament in the next month or so
Posted Eowynnz on 07 December 2011 - 10:54 PM
Posted Eldacar on 10 October 2011 - 03:26 PM
Eldacar's Guide to Anticipated Resilience Gains for Season 11
Hello everyone! I was curious as I am sure many of you have been about how much resilience I would gain by upgrading to full Season 11 gear in Patch 4.3. Rather than continue to wonder I decided to do the math and figure it out. Now I am here to share my findings with all of you in what has become the second in a series of guides about resilience. Please enjoy it and if you have any comments, questions, feedback, or error corrections please post them, I will do my best to respond to everything. You can view the first guide of the series titled "How Resilience Scales in 4.2.2" here: http://www.arenajunk...nce-scales-422/
TLDR: See the pretty graphs below!
Table of Contents:
Section 1 - General Information
Section 2 - General Graphs
Section 3 - Specific Configuration Information
Section 4 - Specific Configuration Graph
Section 5 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks
Section 1 - General Information
Let me start with a disclaimer: All information on season 11 gear and epic gems is based on data from the current PTR version and is subject to change. Now that we have that out of the way lets dive right in. In patch 4.3 you will have two ways to increase your resilience, by upgrading to the new season 11 gear, and by upgrading your rare gems to the new epic gems. Upgrading from any given season 10 gear set to the equivalent season 11 gear set will net you about 722 additional resilience. It doesn't matter if you are going from the 371 honor set to the 390 honor set, or if you are going from the 384 conquest set to the 403 conquest set, you will gain about 722 resilience either way. The amount of resilience you will gain from upgrading your gems depends on how many resilience gems you currently have. In 4.3 the +40 resil rare gem will have a +50 resil epic upgrade, and the +20 resil hybrids will have +25 resil epic upgrades. Based on current info the epic gems will only be available from raiding, so if you are strictly a PVP player don't count on getting your hands on them quickly unless you have a TON of gold to throw around.
Now before we jump into the graphs let me give you a brief rundown of what is going on in them. Different weapon configurations give slightly different amounts of resilience, however the differences are relatively insignificant when looking at total resilience. To make this first graph simpler and easier to read I have averaged all the different weapon configurations together. If you are interested in more precise data for your specific weapon configuration please skip ahead to sections 3 & 4.
In this first graph you will see three different lines, a Baseline, a Normal line, and a Max line. The Baseline represents the total resilience from JUST gear and the 2-piece set bonus. The Normal line represents the Baseline plus the chest, shoulder, and helm resil enchants as well as +70 resil from socket bonuses (some classes get 60 some get 80 I just picked a midpoint). The Max line represents what is approximately the maximum achievable resilience with a given gear set, it is the Normal line plus Blacksmithing, Jewelcrafting, a relic slot, and ALL resilience gems (S10 sets assume rare gems, S11 assume epic). The second graph should be fairly straightforward, it is just a look at the maximum possible resilience from rare and epic gems based on professions and ranged item vs relic (relics have a socket, ranged items don't).
Section 2 - General Graphs
Section 3 - Specific Configuration Information
As I stated earlier, different weapon configurations have slightly different resilience values, generally speaking using a two-hander gives you the most, and dual-wielding one-handers gives you the least. Having a ranged item vs a relic also changes things because ranged items use weapon ilvl's while relics use armor ilvl's.
By fully upgrading from S10 gear to the corresponding S11 gear you will gain the following resil amounts:
Relic + 2H = 728
Relic + MH/OH = 727
Relic + Two 1H = 720
Ranged Item + 2H = 722
Ranged Item + MH/OH = 721
Ranged Item + Two 1H = 714
In the next graph you will find the data for the increases in resilience over the different gear sets based on weapon configuration. Please note this data only includes the gear and the +400 resil 2pc bonus, NOTHING ELSE!
Section 4 - Specific Configuration Graph
Section 5 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks
I want to stress again that all of this is based on data from the current version of the PTR, I don't believe it will change between now and release but you never know. Season 11 looks to be rewarding players with a pretty substantial gain in resilience, even players that don't gem for it will be rocking around 5k resil once they have full S11 conquest gear which is more than is even possible to get at the moment. Resil maxed players will have around 5700 resil which will put them at around 50% damage reduction (200% effective health!!). I truly pity the fresh 85's that are trying to kill players with that much resil. However it remains to be seen if player damage will scale faster or slower than effective health with this new gear. It is quite possible that even with 5k resil it will feel like we are dying faster against equally geared opponents, only time will tell.
I hope you have enjoyed this guide, if you have any comments, feedback, questions, or error corrections please post them, I will do my best to respond to everything. Once again you can check out part one of the guide series here: http://www.arenajunk...nce-scales-422/
Posted Eldacar on 25 September 2011 - 05:53 AM
Eldacar's guide to resilience scaling
Hi everyone, I have written this guide to explain how resilience currently scales to those who are interested. I wrote it because I have seen and met a LOT of people over the last few months who are under the mistaken impression that resilience operates with diminishing returns and it is only half true. This guide is fairly long and in-depth, it is broken down into sections for easy reading, those interested in the really mathy details will find them at the very bottom.
TLDR: Resilience rating has diminishing returns, but the net effect of resilience has increasing returns. See pretty graphs below.
Table of Contents:
Section 1 - Facts About how Resilience Scales
Section 2 - Understanding Effective Health and Interpreting the Graphs
Section 3 - Graphs
Section 4 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks
Section 5 - The Data and Math
Update: The graphs and formulas have been updated based on a more exact resilience rating to damage reduction conversion formula. The formula was derived by Whitetooth of Elitist Jerks.
Section 1 - Facts About how Resilience ScalesEveryone reading this should already have at least a general understanding of how resilience works, it provides a percentage based damage reduction against all damage done by players, the more you have the less damage you take. That's all well and good, but what many people don't seem to understand is how it scales. There are two main factors that go into how resilience scales, one is the exponential returns of percentage based damage reduction, the other is the diminishing returns of resilience rating.
The effects of percentage based damage reduction scale exponentially*, the more you have the more valuable additional damage reduction becomes. For example, lets say someone is hitting you for 100 damage, if you have 0% damage reduction and you add 1% that 100 damage is reduced to 99 damage, a 1% effective reduction. However if you already have 90% damage reduction and you add another 1% that 100 base damage which was already reduced to 10 is now further reduced to 9. That change in incoming damage from 10 to 9 is a 10% reduction in actual damage taken by adding just 1% of damage reduction. Here is a graph that shows how the value of damage reduction increases as you gain more: http://i109.photobuc...cValueGraph.jpg (im not displaying it directly so when people view the guide its easier to find the graph most of them are looking for).
As you can see at 50% damage reduction additional reduction is worth twice as much as normal, at 90% its worth ten times as much as normal. This kind of scaling isn't unique to resilience, armor and any other percentage based damage reduction (even in other games) function the same way, games control the overall scaling of these mechanics by manipulating how fast you are awarded the damage reduction.
(*I am using exponential as a general easy to understand descriptor for quickly increasing returns, not its technical mathematical definition.)
For resilience the controlling factor to those exponential returns on damage reduction is the diminishing returns on resilience rating. The more resilience rating you have, the less damage reduction is awarded by each additional point of rating. This is how Blizzard controls the overall scaling of resilience as a whole, and its what they change when they want to alter the way resilience scales. Currently in 4.3 the rate at which the returns from resilience rating diminish is slower than the rate at which the relative value of damage reduction increases, as a result the net effect of resilience has increasing returns. Simply put the DR on resil rating is not currently intense enough to cancel out the exponential returns of damage reduction.
One final note on this, in World of Warcraft different damage reduction mechanics have multiplicative relationships NOT additive, what this means is that the value scaling for any one of these mechanics is only accurate within that one mechanic. At 50% dmg reduction from resilience an extra 1% from resilience is effectively worth 2%, however none of this has any bearing on the value of additional damage reduction from say armor, that scales separately but similarly. Calculating your total damage reduction from all effects is a rather complicated matter that is beyond the scope of this guide, but I may tackle in it another guide in the future.
Section 2 - Understanding Effective Health and Interpreting the GraphsBefore you can understand the graphs you need to understand what effective health is. Effective health is essentially how much pre-mitigated damage it takes to kill you. If you have 100k health and 0% damage reduction your effective health is just that same 100k. However if you have 100k health and 50% damage reduction your effective health is 200k, because someone would need to do the equivalent of 200k pre-mitigaged damage to kill you. It is also important to note that more than just increasing the size of your effective health pool, that damage reduction also increases the relative effectiveness of heals on you. With 50% damage reduction a 1k heal actually restores 2k of effective health, this is why having a larger effective health through damage reduction is better than having a larger displayed health through stamina.
Because effective health is such a great indicator of survivability it is also a great metric to use for evaluating the overall effectiveness of resilience, which is why I used it in these graphs. It is really the stat that best displays the value you are getting from resilience and the stat you need to be paying attention to in the graphs. Effective health is displayed on the graphs as a percentage relative to displayed health, an EH value of 150% for a player with a 100k displayed health pool would mean that player has an effective health from just resilience of 150k. (When you factor in other effects like armor and dmg reduc from talents your EH is higher but we are just looking at resil by itself here)
Now that you understand all the critical facts its time to get into the graphs. The graphs display the scaling of damage reduction and effective health based on resilience rating in the current version of WoW Patch 4.3 Build 15050. The first graph shows the full resilience rating range from 0 to 6000 with markers in 500 rating increments. The second graph focuses on the range most fully geared PVP'ers play in from 4000 to 5700 with markers in 100 rating increments. These two graphs are based on two formulas; the formula used to convert resilience rating into damage reduction percentage is % = 100 - 100 * 0.99^(resilience rating / 79.12785) and the formula used for determining effective health as a percentage of total displayed health is 100/(1-[dmg reduc %/100]). So without further ado here are the graphs.
Section 3 - Graphs
As you can see in this graph, although you get less and less damage reduction per resilience rating as you gain more, your effective health continues to increase faster and faster anyways.
This graph is just a closer look at the range most fully geared PVP'ers play in.
Section 4 - Closing Thoughts and RemarksI hope this guide has helped to inform those of you that took the time to read it, and I really hope it will help to dispel the common misconception that resilience as a whole operates with diminishing returns. The net total effect of resilience has increasing returns, the more you get the better it is plain and simple. I cant tell you what the right amount of resil for you or your class/spec is, that's a question to be debated and theory-crafted by the players of your class. However if you are looking to gain more survivability you can stack resil forever and its only going to get better. If you have any suggestions for how I can improve this guide, please feel free to post them. Likewise if you see any errors please let me know so I can correct them, I did my best to be as accurate and factual as possible but im not perfect, not yet anyways....maybe with a bit more resil! =D
Section 5 - The Data and MathThis final section is just for those interested in the hard math and where all of this data and these numbers came from.
My original graphs for this guide were based on a resil rating to damage reduction conversion formula approximated by matching a trend line equation to 33 data points in excel. Since then I have updated the guide using a more accurate equation derived by Whitetooth from Elitist Jerks. The formula is as follows: % = 100 - 100 * 0.99^(resilience rating / 79.12785). I have tested this formula in game and found it to be extremely accurate. You can see his post on the subject and how he derived the formula here: http://elitistjerks....24/#post1916319 (I would also like to say thank you to Ptarr for bringing Whitetooth's work to my attention).
I calculated effective health percentages using this formula: 100/(1-[dmg reduc %/100]). For example for the resilience of 5000 the damage reduction is 47.01% so the equation looks like this: 100/(1-0.4701) = 188.72%. You can also calculate your total effective health by plugging in your current displayed health instead of 100, (Displayed Health)/(1-[dmg reduc %/100]) = Effective Health. Keep in mind that resilience is not the only damage mitigation your character has (armor, talents, etc all factor in), so your actual total effective health will be higher than what you calculate with just resilience factored in.
If anyone has any questions about the data or the math feel free to ask me.
Thanks for reading!
Posted Seu on 03 August 2011 - 11:47 PM
rather than reduce the amount of health the dragon has, you can all just suck my dick
Posted Nermó on 07 August 2011 - 06:51 PM
Posted Watlok on 31 July 2011 - 10:44 PM
-Int/sp are roughly equal value to crit/mastery in shatters, and worth significantly more outside of them.
-How much crit/mastery you should get for optimal damage (includes crit buff options & crit meta)
-Value of Crit meta, IL glyph, and FFB glyph for damage
-If you gear around a 5% crit buff you can reforge mastery + regem yellows to int/mastery
I advise against ticking "FB Glyph" because of Ice Lance/FFB.
The damage shown is a rough average. FFB's is rougher than FB/IL's.
You can slightly favor crit or mastery over the optimal value shown and it will be roughly the same damage out. For example, if it recommends 18.32% crit and 10.68% mastery you could have 18.28% crit and 10.73% mastery and have roughly the same damage output, but if you stray off any more than ~20-30 rating you start to actually lose damage output.
PVP Mage Haste Calculator
-How haste impacts important cast times
-Haste breakpoints for important spells (deep freeze/combustion/other mage dots)
-How talents and abilities interact with your haste rating
You can put haste in as a value or percent, if you do a percent the format is x%, ie 5% is 5% haste while 1280 is 1280 rating.
I may work on a calculator that attempts to value haste relative to other stats. That one is a bit trickier than these other two topics, but I am curious about it as much as anyone else. Haste owns to play with.
If I screwed anything up, left something out, or you have some suggestions post them up.
Posted Unappealing on 17 July 2011 - 06:01 PM
This thought has grilled me, and is the real reason i think anyone ever quits wow, pvpers anyways.
We are part of a formula, we have been trained to accept a terrible system and it seems were all entirely oblivious to it.
This thread is probably completely pointless as we all must be aware of this, but no one seems to talk about it anymore, we complain about specific stuff sure, but in general we just sit back and take it, its just the way it is and even though it is responsible for every other issue, we just close our eyes to it.
Every change, every new addition, every removal and tweek, its all just bullshit. It's what we wait for, to keep us coming back, to fix the new imbalance they pointlessly put into the game, so that hey it might be balanced next patch, and again, and again, and again, over and over and over. You could argue pve is responsible for this, but its not, its simlpy an excuse for blizzard to continue to be what we mistake as laziness. It's not laziness, ladies and gentlemen, its their fucking business model.
We get bored of one extremely long season, we complain endlessly about specific things over and over, a new patch here, and nerf there, and a new imbalance here. Over and over again. Sounds like im accusing blizzard of some giant conspiracy, but quite honestly at this point its pretty clear how this hamster wheel functions.
They make "mistakes", then say "oops! we didn't intend for this terrible system to not work as intended", then they reel us back in with the off chance they might fix it at some point down the road - chances are after another $15 from all of us is again safely in their pockets. It is genuinely insane.
As every season mellows out and takes for ever to finish we all just zombify and become use to it, we melt away brain cells endlessly doing the same thing accomplishing almost nothing, i mean in the end were suppose to be having fun, and dont get me wrong i do have fun when i arena with cool people, but honestly how can one sit back and even consider that its possible to have fun doing the same broken imbalnced garbage for 7 months in a row.
The thing that gets me the most, is when they finally bring in a new season, we all battled away for our titles and our gear and wait so patiently to get the next best shit, then its finally available! We all gear up like crack-fiends addicted to bigger numbers. We all hit pretty hard as the season starts and people complain, then they just buff reseilence and health pools, so even though were doing more damage and everyones all excited for this refreshing change, NOTHING HAS CHANGED lol.
Its depressing, this thread is depressing, the state of this game is depressing, but whats more depressing than anything is seeing all these quality people, all you guys, slave away as you get gouged by blizzard over and over again.
Were just part of a vicious cycle, a business model, an endlessly perpetuating and cleverly designed money making machine. Blizzard really doesn't give a shit what you say or complain about - they have it all planned out, and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
Posted Fixty on 27 June 2011 - 04:44 PM
Posted Azaelz on 18 June 2011 - 05:50 PM
It should be "insert highest rating / biggest accomplishment I have in WoW Arena" to get those trinkets so the rest of you peons can't get them.
Also honestly I prefer if there's not that sort of stuff in arena simply because there will always be setups that will gain a much larger advantage from stacking PvE type items, and others who can't survive without max resil who can never gain the benefit of having them.