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angraMember Since 10 Mar 2009
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Posted Kelarm on 06 January 2015 - 10:58 PM
Especially in my last few Qing sessions, I've seen at least as many mages as warlocks, warriors, and even DKs. And it seems to me the general perception of high-end PvPers has shifted from "I mean, maybe mages could use some help" more toward "wtf are you guys talking about, this is strong."
From a design standpoint, I don't even play the class but I can still tell the design is terrible. Mages and warlocks got opposite and equally terrible direction this expansion. In previous expansions, frost mages have been the extreme control, good burst class. Warlocks have been the extreme damage, good control class. Both classes just lost half their identity for no discernible reason. Mages lost all their damage outside of ice nova, leaving them with only control, which they spend the entire game spamming. Meanwhile, warlocks lost all their control outside of shit fears, leaving them with only damage, which they spend the entire game spamming. Both designs are garbage and have removed a huge amount of skill from these 2 classes which have historically been among the highest skill cap in the game. I really hope they take a hard look at the design of both classes and fix what they've broken. However, we all know that's probably not going to happen until next expansion, and even at that, Blizzard has never been known to make anything actually better. Things always just seem to get steadily worse. In light of that, this is just the reality now, and we are left to try to enjoy our classes as they are.
Posted Thaya on 06 February 2015 - 12:08 PM
Posted Raak on 05 February 2015 - 04:52 PM
Posted Evolute on 01 February 2015 - 10:39 PM
people list things everyone knows
Posted zajklon on 24 January 2015 - 02:35 PM
Posted Braindance on 23 January 2015 - 06:46 PM
And at the end of the day, it's already painful fighting hunters and druids for every other melee bar ferals; why would you have a different treatment, given that you have an easier time sticking to a target when you connect compared to other melee?
Please be more rational
Posted Kroyfel on 23 January 2015 - 01:21 PM
Posted Clique05 on 23 January 2015 - 07:59 AM
Posted Kelarm on 22 January 2015 - 06:11 PM
Posted Covlol on 22 January 2015 - 01:00 PM
Yes they are..
Posted Pinka on 13 January 2015 - 09:48 AM
- Deep Wounds’ damage has been increased by 40%.
- Devastate’s damage has been increased by 20%.
- Revenge’s damage has been increased by 40%.
- Shield Slam’s damage has been increased by 20%.
Oh and for the fury rerollers that suddenly want to go arms. HAHA! Especially if you went gladstance before that.
Posted Charred on 09 January 2015 - 05:45 PM
No that's not my pov/opinion. It's a measurable FACT that there are dedicated ways to shut down every class specifically, with varying levels of effectiveness.
Every melee class can be kited, every caster can be silenced, locked out or los'd for a big part of their spells.
There is no dedicated way to shut down a hunter.
That's not my opinion, that's just how the game works, there is absolutely no personal influence in that fact.
Just because you aren't jumping around 2-shotting everybody, doesn't mean you aren't broken. Your consistant damage is crazy throguh the roof.
And I guess you were referring to the fact that I find this fact terrible gamedesign as my opinion. Sure that is true, but it's an opinion that many other people share and it's far from the most farfetched opinion there is.
Yes, exactly. And that goes back to the fact that there is no mechanic to balance your class around, just like I explained to you. If there was a way to shut down hunters, it'd be a lot easier to properly balance your class.
I don't, but this topic is about hunters.
You're just listing a warlock's abilities. I can do that to for hunters you know, it means nothing.
It's a joke that you even whine about mechanics such as healthstone, how exactly did you get access to this section of the site again?
And again, this thread is about hunters, so what do other classes have to do with that? Just because other classes have broken mechanics doesn't justify hunters being broken.
I talk about those as well in various threads, including what needs to be fixed about my own class.
Yea about that. I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but I come from the times where mages actually had to manage their mana & your class could make me go oom with 3 viper stings, after which it'd be impossible almost impossible to regen that mana back.
If you think focus mechanics are "cancerous", you may want hop on a TBC server & then come crawling back, begging for your focusbar to return to you.
I for one, would welcome an overhaul where mana would be relevant for my class again though, rather than being a spellsteal charges bar. The current resourcesystem for all classes is majorly flawed.
Pretty sure most big defensive CDs cant be used like that? On the top of my head the only spells I can recall which can be popped while already in a CC: Iceblock, IBF, DS, Pain Sup.
Barkskin can also be popped, but it's only a 1min cooldown, so i don't know how big of a defensive CD you can consider that nowadays and bop works through some, but not all forms of CC.
Most people also agree that IBF needs to be changed in that regard. And mages can coldsnap when lock out for example, but I believe that's a horrible change as well. If we get locked on frost we should be punished and not be able to snap->block out of it.
Anyhow, I'm probably forgetting some, but I don't think you can get to "most of the classes"? Spells like SLT, treeform, sheidlwall, CR, barrier, etc... all require you not to be CC'd afaik. I may be wrong though, but I'm pretty sure it used to be like that & if it's changed since then, I wouldn't agree with it either. It lowers the skillcap by being able to pop a CD during a CC rather than having to prevent it by popping it pre-emptively.
You also don't seem to realize that spells like fear, polymorph and cyclone are all casted, unlike your trap, which means you can silence/kick them or line of sight them (partially unlike your traps as well). I don't think most people beleive that casted CCs need a cooldown, since there are many ways to prevent them from happening. However you are entitled to your own opinion (which I doubt is an opinion shared by many though).
What exactly makes you so terribly vurnable to stuns compared to other classes?
What the fuck are you talking about really. All those classes are casters except rogues, which means you can silence them and they do nothing, which also means if they are school locked they do nothing either and you can instantly LoS any non instant spell.
Combat rogues can be kited/peeled.
Please please please don't tell me you're comparing killing spree (a single spell) or unsilenced, non-locked out casters who aren't being LOS'd to your entire goddamn class?
Please don't tell me you are that stupid.
I'm pretty sure I'm not acting at all like every other class is fine (I don't even think my own class is fine). However this thread is about hunters, so logically you'll read only hunter-related discussion. Somehow you don't seem to get that. It's like walking into a bakery and being suprised they only sell bread and no meat.
On top of that, the problem with hunters is far deeper than mere number tweaking as I've explained before. And yes, in that aspect you are unique. No other class is flawed like that.
[Currently in testing] Freezing Trap now has a trigger radius of 3 yards (down from 5 yards).
so blizzard is going to change something
So instead of being trapped when im halfway behind a pillar, I now will only get trapped when im up to 1/3rd behind los? Not exactly an amazing change.
It's utterly stupid traps can ignore LoS like that alraedy, especially when it comes to Z-axis LOS.
You really havn't been watching the game for very long then. Melee cleaves dominated for the longest time in the past. Hunters as well.
I guess you weren't around when beastcleave facerolled over everything? Or when Cherez's double healer hunter got second place?
If you want to start argueing that tournament representation is an accurate way to judge a class's strenght, you really picked the wrong class.By that logic, I could argue that hunters were fine in TBC, since Hydra/Cherez/Beasteh got all the way to second place with a hunter combo that was practically unbeatable.
Or when in the expansion after that hunters were pulling shit like this in the
grand fucking finals:
You really have no clue what you are talking about. If a class is fine based on its tournament representation, you can revert the hundreds of buffs your class has recieved over the course of 5 expansions and go back to being a static class with a deadzone.
Stop playing the victim.
Stop commenting about the history of your class if your knowledge doesn't extend past MoP.
Stop commenting on these boards if you have practically no clue about the game at all.
Posted Charred on 09 January 2015 - 02:30 AM
People are outraged because Blizzard loudly claimed that they'll fix instant CC after the abomination that was apparantly MoP (wouldn't know, avoided it like the plague), only to then to the polar opposite by giving hunters one of the most broken instant CC's the game has ever known.
Just because you didn't see people complain about it doesn't mean there isn't anyone doing so.
Nor does it mean that a mechanic that didn't used to be broken, can't be broken now when the state of the game changes. Just look at combat rogues.
Balance of individual spells, classes, talents & glyphs is dependant of the state of the game as a whole. You can't say "this mechanic was fine in the past, so it should be fine now." If that were true, I could give you an endless list of abilities and talents which were fine in the past, but would be completely broken now.
The same is very much true for hunters.
I've stated this already multiple times, but I'll repeat it once more;
The issue with hunters is far bigger than the current issues with traps. Throughout all expansions, hunters are easily the most buffed class, simply because Blizzard doesn't seem to know what to do with them in PvP.
The big underlaying issue with hunters is the fact that there is no dedicated way to stopping your damage. This is not only a stupid mechanic, but at the same time it makes it incredibly difficult for your class to be balanced out (like really it does you more harm than it does you good). It would be far easier to give hunters their proper place if there was something to balance your abilities around like with other types of classes:
A melee class' abilities strenght can be justified by the fact that they have to be in melee range, so they can be kited which renders their spells useless.
A caster's spells' strenght can be balanced thanks to the fact that they have to stand still to cast a majority of their spells and that they can be locked out on the school, which renders them useless.
Now in come hunters: In the past you had a deadzone to balance out your spells & you had to stand still to cast.It was painfully clear back then that hunters were in dire need of some buffs as only truely amazing players could accomplish anything with the class. You had some of the limitations of both melee & casters, but neither of all. Deadzone was comparable to kiting a melee class & standing still to cast spells was the same as casters, but you had autoattack as well.
Flash forward to today, where hunters have all of the benefits and none of the downsides of neither melee nor casters. There simply isn't a dedicated way to stop your damage and that's a terrible designflaw. You can't be kited, you can't be interupted and line of sight affects you less than other classes since you can cast while moving.
And this needs to change. Badly.There have been plenty of suggestions I've read here or heard from friends in the past, most of them revolving around turning focus into a true "focus" meter rather than a watered down energy-bar. Make focus only regen when standing still and focus-regaining abiltiies only give focus while standing still, make hunter damage dependant of the amount of focus they have, etc...
However, I have very little doubt this will change in a patch, in fact I'm 100% sure it won't. Yet that won't stop me or others from trying to get this terrible design fixed with the next expansion & the only way we can do so is by being vocal about it. It was never fine, even if people weren't vocal about it.
Besides that, there are other issues with hunters people comment on as well, which also go back to the fact that Blizzard has made you the most buffed class over all expansions (because they have no clue what to do with hunters). They added so many tools & mechanics over the course of 10 years to your class, that they seem to have lost sight of all the stuff you have gotten. However I won't go into detail to that, since that's not what I want this post to be about.