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Member Since 10 Mar 2009
Offline Last Active Feb 13 2015 05:44 PM

#4336026 [Frost Mage] The truth, are they balanced or wat

Posted Kelarm on 06 January 2015 - 10:58 PM

Mages are not weak.  A lot of mages are doing a really great job pretending the class is weak and they've got a pretty good whine fest going on, but from a balance standpoint the class is fine.  God comp is easily one of the strongest comps in the game, if not the strongest.  Other comps using mages are starting to pick up more and more, like RMD.  

Especially in my last few Qing sessions, I've seen at least as many mages as warlocks, warriors, and even DKs.  And it seems to me the general perception of high-end PvPers has shifted from "I mean, maybe mages could use some help" more toward "wtf are you guys talking about, this is strong."

From a design standpoint, I don't even play the class but I can still tell the design is terrible.  Mages and warlocks got opposite and equally terrible direction this expansion.  In previous expansions, frost mages have been the extreme control, good burst class.  Warlocks have been the extreme damage, good control class.  Both classes just lost half their identity for no discernible reason.  Mages lost all their damage outside of ice nova, leaving them with only control, which they spend the entire game spamming.  Meanwhile, warlocks lost all their control outside of shit fears, leaving them with only damage, which they spend the entire game spamming.  Both designs are garbage and have removed a huge amount of skill from these 2 classes which have historically been among the highest skill cap in the game.  I really hope they take a hard look at the design of both classes and fix what they've broken.  However, we all know that's probably not going to happen until next expansion, and even at that, Blizzard has never been known to make anything actually better.  Things always just seem to get steadily worse.  In light of that, this is just the reality now, and we are left to try to enjoy our classes as they are.

#4381370 The most successful arena expansion

Posted Thaya on 06 February 2015 - 12:08 PM

I think there's a reason people still play WotLK till this day and the reason is that its fucking awesome

#4380754 ABN?

Posted Raak on 05 February 2015 - 04:52 PM

View Postangra, on 05 February 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

If only world of ming still existed.

Drama died with WoW Riot :(

#4378474 Things that are secretly OP

Posted Evolute on 01 February 2015 - 10:39 PM

'secretly op'

people list things everyone knows


#4369760 Is Holinka the worst thing that happenned to WoW PvP ?

Posted zajklon on 24 January 2015 - 02:35 PM

View PostBlexone, on 24 January 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

Was there a season that was not "the worst season ever"?
season 8. Everything was viable

#4368206 PVE gear nerfs

Posted Dills on 23 January 2015 - 05:18 AM

R.I.P maldiva

#4368785 Burst of Speed nerfed

Posted Braindance on 23 January 2015 - 06:46 PM

View PostIckz, on 23 January 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

I love all the morons who are celebrating the nerf. I'm fairly certain no rogue didn't think BoS wasn't a retarded mechanic. As dumb as it is, it's currently needed vs the likes of frozen ammo (and if you compare it to crippling, you're fucking braindead) and faerie swarm. If changes aren't made to those, it's going to be even more painful fighting hunters and druids.
Bolder part makes no sense.

And at the end of the day, it's already painful fighting hunters and druids for every other melee bar ferals; why would you have a different treatment, given that you have an easier time sticking to a target when you connect compared to other melee?

Please be more rational

#4368491 Burst of Speed nerfed

Posted Kroyfel on 23 January 2015 - 01:21 PM

Finally, now get rid of frozen ammo and put a cd on faerie swarm

#4368299 Burst of Speed nerfed

Posted Speedymart on 23 January 2015 - 08:17 AM

thank fucking god

#4368269 Burst of Speed nerfed

Posted Clique05 on 23 January 2015 - 07:59 AM

Zzzzzzzzzzz about time they did something about that broken ability.

#4367834 New 6.1 PTR notes

Posted Kelarm on 22 January 2015 - 06:11 PM

View Postpanooc, on 18 January 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

50% frostbolt damage is literally nothing  ( whos gunna let them cast anyway?) they nerf druids at all and every mage above 2400 goes bye bye
Posted Image

#4367570 Arms nerfed again.. 21-01-2015

Posted Covlol on 22 January 2015 - 01:00 PM

View PostMawky, on 22 January 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

you should looke more closely to patchnotes, they nerfed the radius to not be able to los trap (and often force to trap out of stun etc instead of just stay next to the target) and made the cd back to 20s. Ye sure we have to wait till 6.1 but traps are no longer a thing to whine about.

Yes they are..

#4354992 Arms buff

Posted Pinka on 13 January 2015 - 09:48 AM

They buffed the prot abilities by a hefty ammount aswell. Since the tank prot got hit cause they wanted to nerf gladstance. Now they made up their mind (a lot of people already came up with the suggestion.) And they nerfed the glad stance passive instead. The arms buff is bigger then people might realise. Atleast for the people that stack mastery (that would be me.) And indeed that will be roughly a 25% damage increase on Ms, Cs and even execute. Also an indirect buff to the sudden death talent and sweeping strikes.
Oh and for the fury rerollers that suddenly want to go arms. HAHA! Especially if you went gladstance before that.

#4344045 Tired of Huntards

Posted Charred on 09 January 2015 - 05:45 PM

View PostNogahn, on 09 January 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

I DID NOT DEFEND 12 sec TRAP and i'm neither a fan of frozen amo.
I don't think I said you were defending it. I'm just judging your victimist mentality, which is pretty disgusting to be fair.


that's your point of view... and yes hunters are unique as a class (caster/meele hybrid) but you guys arr acting liek hunetrs are jumping around the arena 2shotting everything. which is clearly not the point at all

No that's not my pov/opinion. It's a measurable FACT that there are dedicated ways to shut down every class specifically, with varying levels of effectiveness.
Every melee class can be kited, every caster can be silenced, locked out or los'd for a big part of their spells.
There is no dedicated way to shut down a hunter.
That's not my opinion, that's just how the game works, there is absolutely no personal influence in that fact.

Just because you aren't jumping around 2-shotting everybody, doesn't mean you aren't broken. Your consistant damage is crazy throguh the roof.

And I guess you were referring to the fact that I find this fact terrible gamedesign as my opinion. Sure that is true, but it's an opinion that many other people share and it's far from the most farfetched opinion there is.


hunters are hard to balance since you can turn them into shit with just a few changes.

Yes, exactly. And that goes back to the fact that there is no mechanic to balance your class around, just like I explained to you. If there was a way to shut down hunters, it'd be a lot easier to properly balance your class.


so pls stop acting like hunters are the only class in the game which is broken...

I don't, but this topic is about hunters.


i'd even say warlocks are on the same page as hunters if not even worse.(spam fears, they are a fukcing tank, teleport+gate, healthstone, drainsoul, darkbargain, pet sac mechanic, imp-dispell, UA is outdated/too strong for a game with an 8second dispell cooldown(!). there are more classes which are broken too but i guess you get what im talking about.

You're just listing a warlock's abilities. I can do that to for hunters you know, it means nothing.
It's a joke that you even whine about mechanics such as healthstone, how exactly did you get access to this section of the site again?

And again, this thread is about hunters, so what do other classes have to do with that? Just because other classes have broken mechanics doesn't justify hunters being broken.
I talk about those as well in various threads, including what needs to be fixed about my own class.


btw being a hunter also has it's downsides... focus-bar + cobra/steady mechanic = pure cancer  (i'd love to see mages or warlocks with suhc a design so you'd actually know how it feels sometimes) ,

Yea about that. I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but I come from the times where mages actually had to manage their mana & your class could make me go oom with 3 viper stings, after which it'd be impossible almost impossible to regen that mana back.
If you think focus mechanics are "cancerous", you may want hop on a TBC server & then come crawling back, begging for your focusbar to return to you.

I for one, would welcome an overhaul where mana would be relevant for my class again though, rather than being a spellsteal charges bar. The current resourcesystem for all classes is majorly flawed.


i'd love to see most of the classes to be relied on their own trinket to actually pop defensives (the big ones),

Pretty sure most big defensive CDs cant be used like that? On the top of my head the only spells I can recall which can be popped while already in a CC: Iceblock, IBF, DS, Pain Sup.
Barkskin can also be popped, but it's only a 1min cooldown, so i don't know how big of a defensive CD you can consider that nowadays and bop works through some, but not all forms of CC.

Most people also agree that IBF needs to be changed in that regard. And mages can coldsnap when lock out for example, but I believe that's a horrible change as well. If we get locked on frost we should be punished and not be able to snap->block out of it.

Anyhow, I'm probably forgetting some, but I don't think you can get to "most of the classes"? Spells like SLT, treeform, sheidlwall, CR, barrier, etc... all require you not to be CC'd afaik. I may be wrong though, but I'm pretty sure it used to be like that & if it's changed since then, I wouldn't agree with it either. It lowers the skillcap by being able to pop a CD during a CC rather than having to prevent it by popping it pre-emptively.


i'd love to see spam cc would be gone allready (at least 3-4 second cd on fear/poly/cyclone)

You also don't seem to realize that spells like fear, polymorph and cyclone are all casted, unlike your trap, which means you can silence/kick them or line of sight them (partially unlike your traps as well). I don't think most people beleive that casted CCs need a cooldown, since there are many ways to prevent them from happening. However you are entitled to your own opinion (which I doubt is an opinion shared by many though).


i'd love to see other classes being as vulnerable to stuns as hunters I guess the only ones are rogues and i'd love to see how people want to stop some other classes dmg affli lock, shadow (for the most part), boomkin, mages during burst, combat rogues during burst,  (since "There simply isn't a dedicated way to stop your damage and that's a terrible designflaw")

What exactly makes you so terribly vurnable to stuns compared to other classes?

What the fuck are you talking about really. All those classes are casters except rogues, which means you can silence them and they do nothing, which also means if they are school locked they do nothing either and you can instantly LoS any non instant spell.
Combat rogues can be kited/peeled.

Please please please don't tell me you're comparing killing spree (a single spell) or unsilenced, non-locked out casters who aren't being LOS'd to your entire goddamn class?
Please don't tell me you are that stupid.


yes i wrote some bullshit in the past but you can't say that hunters are broken on the one hand without even showing the other 10 hands of the game. stop acting like every other class is fine... and again i want trap and frozen amo to be gone but i'd love you people to look into a mirror before judging any other class.

I'm pretty sure I'm not acting at all like every other class is fine (I don't even think my own class is fine). However this thread is about hunters, so logically you'll read only hunter-related discussion. Somehow you don't seem to get that. It's like walking into a bakery and being suprised they only sell bread and no meat.

On top of that, the problem with hunters is far deeper than mere number tweaking as I've explained before. And yes, in that aspect you are unique. No other class is flawed like that.

View PostNogahn, on 09 January 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

and btw

[Currently in testing] Freezing Trap now has a trigger radius of 3 yards (down from 5 yards).

so blizzard is going to change something

So instead of being trapped when im halfway behind a pillar, I now will only get trapped when im up to 1/3rd behind los? Not exactly an amazing change.

It's utterly stupid traps can ignore LoS like that alraedy, especially when it comes to Z-axis LOS.


what i also wanted to add... if hunters are so OP and anyoing why aren't there so many hunters stomping everyone at blizzcon. all i see are cater cleaves in different colors

Oh boy.

You really havn't been watching the game for very long then. Melee cleaves dominated for the longest time in the past. Hunters as well.

I guess you weren't around when beastcleave facerolled over everything? Or when Cherez's double healer hunter got second place?

If you want to start argueing that tournament representation is an accurate way to judge a class's strenght, you really picked the wrong class.By that logic, I could argue that hunters were fine in TBC, since Hydra/Cherez/Beasteh got all the way to second place with a hunter combo that was practically unbeatable.
Or when in the expansion after that hunters were pulling shit like this in the
grand fucking finals:


You really have no clue what you are talking about. If a class is fine based on its tournament representation, you can revert the hundreds of buffs your class has recieved over the course of 5 expansions and go back to being a static class with a deadzone.


since some people are arguing that hunters are too strong for years now (i'm not saying hunter was weak at all but feels like you guys just don't liek the class itself and you'd rather delete the class then accepting that there are bigger fishs in the sea every season. (s12 was retarded okay i give you that but then there were ferals(s13), eles, locks, mages which were 100% on the same level of retardness as hunter in the past seasons (except s12)
Nobody is saying other classes are fine, yet this is a thread about hunters, so expect hunter related discussion.
Stop playing the victim.
Stop commenting about the history of your class if your knowledge doesn't extend past MoP.
Stop commenting on these boards if you have practically no clue about the game at all.

#4341423 Tired of Huntards

Posted Charred on 09 January 2015 - 02:30 AM

View PostNogahn, on 09 January 2015 - 12:42 AM, said:

and as you might see those are changes that could have been done by now but they are considered OKAY.... but everyone is acting like hunter, the class, itself is broken eventho 90% of the people in this thread are anyoned by a 12sec trap(+radius) and slow amo...

People whine about traps, 12second ones in particular for a very good reason.As I said before, it's arguably the most idiotproof mechanic this game has ever known. Even thoguh I might've not been around 100% of the time, I've been playing since day 1 of vanilla and nothing I've ever known is so forgiving and retardproof as traps are. It's instant ranged cc that works around corners (literally no other similar spell has ever done this) and that still has an effect or can occur when you miss it, as in, failure is rewarded.
People are outraged because Blizzard loudly claimed that they'll fix instant CC after the abomination that was apparantly MoP (wouldn't know, avoided it like the plague), only to then to the polar opposite by giving hunters one of the most broken instant CC's the game has ever known.

Just because you didn't see people complain about it doesn't mean there isn't anyone doing so.
Nor does it mean that a mechanic that didn't used to be broken, can't be broken now when the state of the game changes. Just look at combat rogues.
Balance of individual spells, classes, talents & glyphs is dependant of the state of the game as a whole. You can't say "this mechanic was fine in the past, so it should be fine now." If that were true, I could give you an endless list of abilities and talents which were fine in the past, but would be completely broken now.
The same is very much true for hunters.

I've stated this already multiple times, but I'll repeat it once more;

The issue with hunters is far bigger than the current issues with traps. Throughout all expansions, hunters are easily the most buffed class, simply because Blizzard doesn't seem to know what to do with them in PvP.

The big underlaying issue with hunters is the fact that there is no dedicated way to stopping your damage. This is not only a stupid mechanic, but at the same time it makes it incredibly difficult for your class to be balanced out (like really it does you more harm than it does you good).  It would be far easier to give hunters their proper place if there was something to balance your abilities around like with other types of classes:
A melee class' abilities strenght can be justified by the fact that they have to be in melee range, so they can be kited which renders their spells useless.
A caster's spells' strenght can be balanced thanks to the fact that they have to stand still to cast a majority of their spells and that they can be locked out on the school, which renders them useless.
Now in come hunters: In the past you had a deadzone to balance out your spells & you had to stand still to cast.It was painfully clear back then that hunters were in dire need of some buffs as only truely amazing players could accomplish anything with the class. You had some of the limitations of both melee & casters, but neither of all. Deadzone was comparable to kiting a melee class & standing still to cast spells was the same as casters, but you had autoattack as well.
Flash forward to today, where hunters have all of the benefits and none of the downsides of neither melee nor casters. There simply isn't a dedicated way to stop your damage and that's a terrible designflaw. You can't be kited, you can't be interupted and line of sight affects you less than other classes since you can cast while moving.

And this needs to change. Badly.There have been plenty of suggestions I've read here or heard from friends in the past, most of them revolving around turning focus into a true "focus" meter rather than a watered down energy-bar. Make focus only regen when standing still and focus-regaining abiltiies only give focus while standing still, make hunter damage dependant of the amount of focus they have, etc...

However, I have very little doubt this will change in a patch, in fact I'm 100% sure it won't. Yet that won't stop me or others from trying to get this terrible design fixed with the next expansion & the only way we can do so is by being vocal about it. It was never fine, even if people weren't vocal about it.

Besides that, there are other issues with hunters people comment on as well, which also go back to the fact that Blizzard has made you the most buffed class over all expansions (because they have no clue what to do with hunters). They added so many tools & mechanics over the course of 10 years to your class, that they seem to have lost sight of all the stuff you have gotten. However I won't go into detail to that, since that's not what I want this post to be about.