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Member Since 23 Feb 2009
Offline Last Active Nov 19 2014 02:50 PM
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#4261177 My Thoughts on MoP PvP and the direction of WoD

Posted Talbadar on 11 November 2014 - 06:21 AM

Hey everyone. With MoP coming to a close soon I'd like to talk about how I feel the expansion has been for PvP as a whole. This means I'll be going over the negatives and positives of as many areas of the game as possible.

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Positives
Class Variety:
Class variety was at an all time high this expansion in all areas of PvP. At any given part of the 3 seasons we can say within reason that about 20 out of the 29 viable PvP specs could do well in arena when played by the right players. This is not to say they could get carried, but that the class had the potential to compete. This was certainly not the case in BC and Wrath. During Cata it became more apparent that Blizzard wanted more classes to be viable and they definitely followed through into MoP with this in mind.

Catch-up system: Not much has to be said here. The fact that you can show up a few weeks late with a character and still compete or better yet go from 0 gear to full gear on an alt at the end of a season is a world of difference from previous expansions. This improved the game so much for me and for many players who have alts that don't usually get geared before the end of a season.

Full PvP gear best in slot: After years and years of dealing with players using trinkets from raids that could increase their damage by 30% or proc extra attacks that hit for 20% of your health bar we finally got what we wanted. Blizzard introduced a system that made full PvP gear best in slot for almost any situation. As an arena enthusiast this made me quite happy.
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Class balance:
It's hard to say this without a lot of negative feedback about certain ones, but class balance as a whole was really good by the end of the first season and onwards. As I mentioned earlier many classes were viable, but most of the time they were still very competitive anyway.

Let's take a look at some of the classes we saw at regionals and blizzcon this year. I am familiar with only the US teams for regionals, but we had a Ret, a Holy Priest, multiple Marksmanship Hunters, a Shadow Priest, a couple Elemental Shamans, a Boomkin, multiple Frost Mages, multiple Resto Shamans, multiple Affliction Warlocks, a Mistweaver Monk, a Subtlety Rogue, and a couple Resto Druids. At Blizzcon we saw a couple Windwalker Monks, a Fire Mage, and an Arms Warrior. That alone covers a lot of classes and specs.

On the live ladders we saw a lot of different specs doing well and I can only count 8 specs that did not reach a rating of 3000 by the end of the final season which are: Disc Priest, Fury Warrior, Frost DK, Arcane Mage, BM Hunter, Demo Warlock, Combat Rogue, and Assassination Rogue. For all I know some of those could have made it.

Successful arena maps: Blizzard finally added new arena maps that didn't need major revamping to become a solid part of the arena map pool. They also revamped Blade's Edge and Dalaran for the better though I sometimes do miss the old Dalaran against melee. They still need to work on some of the map balance, but really you can't hate on what they did during MoP with arena maps. I would like to see them add Ring of Valor back to the map pool. The current one is actually a great map it's just disabled due to bugs.
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Merger of battlegroups:
The removal of set arena teams in combination with having a single player ladder and being able to queue with anyone you want has been HUGE for the game. You no longer have to sit on arena teams until the end of a season worrying about your rating. This has also decreased queue times and allows players to compare everyone at once which people definitely care about seeing.

Resilience, PvP Power, and Dampening scaling : While not everyone can say that they enjoyed having these stats around you have to commend Blizzard for getting the numbers right with every season. They had to manually adjust them with each season to make sure people weren't dying too fast, weren't healing too much, and ensure that games were actually coming to an end in a reasonable amount of time. They definitely could have done better with 2v2, though.

Streaming Influence: You may not like some of the streamers and you may have some that you love, but streaming has definitely made a positive impact on the game. A lot more players are better informed and many feel like they are part of something by being able to communicate with top players and other members of their arena community.
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Holinka BOYS:
This man has done wonders for our community and you should be more than happy if you know what he's been doing while working for Blizzard. He's been in contact with a lot of the top players and constantly looks for feedback to relay to help out. He's also attended the LAN events to talk to players and meet them which I'm certain was not required of him. I've spoken with him quite a few times and the guy's got a good head on his shoulders so we should be happy we have him instead of the whatever the hell came before him.
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Negatives
Reliance on gear:
A common theme for this expansion and Cataclysm was a heavy reliance on gear to be competitive. While everyone thinks PvP gear should be the best in PvP, the reliance on having the best gear available to even come close to competing is frustrating. There have been times where I am missing 3 or 4 items and it feels completely hopeless to try knowing other people just do so much more with those few pieces.

Too much CC / Too many defensives: This topic has been heavily covered by so many people so I'll be brief to not bore you. The arms race went way too far this expansion. Instead of Warrior Charges Mage-->Mage Frost Novas it's now: Charge-->Blink-->Heroic Leap-->Nova-->Intervene-->Pet Nova-->Reflect-->etc,etc. Everyone just had way too many things to deal with each other and way too many simple reactions when taking damage or wanting to deal damage.
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Dampening in arena:
As both a tournament spectator and competitor I strongly believe that Dampening is a horrible concept for arena. This allowed for many things to happen. First of all teams could design their composition fully around winning because of Dampening and play around it. I don't think this was as relevant to ladders as it was at the actual tournaments. Both my team (ele, lock, druid) and the team that won this year (boomkin, lock, shaman) could easily attribute their success to its existence. It made for really boring starts to happen in a game where most of the action should be happening seconds into the match.

This also allowed Blizzard to balance the classes around dampening and not having to worry about if players could actually get a kill early on. Instead of fixing the issue they just took a shortcut around it by forcing games to end. I think having some type of ultimatum for games ending is fine, but the game should be balanced around players scoring kills before something like that is even necessary. On top of that it should be fair for both sides which sadly dampening is not. "The Crowd Chose You" is obviously not a good option either.
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Caster dominance at higher levels:
This has happened at the end of a lot of expansions for WoW now and I think it would take a long discussion to figure out why this is the case, but as you all have seen the past 4 years have been more of a Wizzcon than anything else. Melee make things exciting and even against two casters it creates a much more dynamic matchup to both play and watch.
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Reluctance to make small changes:
I've heard Blizzard's thoughts on this time and time again, but I still feel as if we're getting robbed out of a better experience. They don't want to make a lot of small changes because they don't think it will make a big enough impact and will only deter players from participating if the classes keep getting changed. When I look at a game like LoL that makes constant slight balance changes weekly I can only frown knowing it would be great for WoW PvP to follow suit. Changes like this one below make the game drastically different and makes some classes stay dead for very long while others get to overpowered states for entire seasons without change.
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Lack of tournaments:
No regionals in 2013, a few tournaments hosted online (that were, as usual, attacked by DDoS), and just a few LANs? We didn't do much these past couple years. Tournaments create life in PvP. It gives events for people to look forward to and it gives drama for players to talk about. I heard something about MLG thinking about picking up WoW again for WoD, but rumors are rumors.

Healer Variety: Specifically in arena only 3 out of 6 specs (Mistweaver Monk, Resto Shaman, Resto Druid) were viable at the end of the expansion. I'd say we didn't do a good job of ensuring viability among them especially with Discipline being horrible for almost the entire expansion. One could argue that each spec was good at some point during the expansion, but that's simply not good enough especially after coming out of Shamanclysm.
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Moving forward into WoD
Ability Bloat:
There are so many things I am looking forward to in WoD and one of them is the removal of a ton of abilities and cooldowns that were just making the game worse. A lot of people won't agree initially, but let me explain why it's a good thing. There are tons of abilities for you to use to outplay your opponents and you want to be able to use them all and it makes the skill cap really high... sure that's great, but there are plenty of great games out there that use very few abilities to do things well. As long as there are mini games to play then there is plenty of room for player interactions to make a difference and for players to have fun. Mini games are things like: positioning battles, the interrupt game, forcing/saving trinkets and cooldowns, and battling for objectives. There's so much more to PvP than just having a bunch of crap to press.

Interrupt and CC changes: The number one change coming into WoD is one that's been needed for so god damn long. The removal of Improved Counterspell (the strongest CC in the game besides Fear) and Improved Spell Lock. There are other Silences and small CCs being removed, but this really does add to the fun for both the Mage/Locks and other players. You feel like you get more out of a spell when you use it well and previously all we see is blanket Counterspells and there's not much interaction required. The more interactions between players the more room there is to outplay. Don't forget the nerfs to Fear duration, CC cooldown, and the removal of PoM Sheep, NS Cyclone, and other forms of instant full CC.

Focus on PvP: From what I gather there's been a focus on making PvP fun for this expansion and with Holinka on board I'm having positive thoughts on PvP as a whole. I would love to see 2v2 make a comeback as a fun bracket that you can queue with your friends where games actually end quickly instead of the current stalemates that happen. With less abilities cluttering the game the mini games should become more and more relevant instead of the previous cooldown war. You have to expect that the expansion will start out with some bumps. Maybe damage overall will be too low, healing will be too high, or Mages will one shot people with Ice Nova, but we will get there guys!

Hope you enjoyed. Feel free to post your thoughts on both the positives and negatives of MoP as well as what you're expecting moving forward.


#4256953 Metro 2033 for free

Posted BurncrawHD on 08 November 2014 - 09:26 AM

Humble Bundle is giving out Metro 2033 for free for the next 9 hours

https://www.humblebu...92f15-103327309

nice while this dogshit patch is online.


#4252663 Why is there no solo rated option for 3v3 and rbg?

Posted DerpiousMaximus on 04 November 2014 - 02:34 PM

I always wondered this, since tbc it bothered me that it wasn't the case. Sure we had skirmish but in the end it is just a way to burn time nothing else.

I also cannot imagine that it would be hard for blizzard to implement a system just like dungeons where 1 healer and 2 dps are required to start so you avoid double healer or triple dps stacks. If im correct they have a system like this on the arena-tournament realm which works decently enough.

Even tough there is a lot of possible inbalances it would balance itself out since everyone is exposed to the same inbalances, of course you will see more viable classes higher up the ladder (but same thing happens in regular arena where more viable comps are higher up the ladder). But even if that is the case i still think it would be more fun to play for any kind of rating then to mindlessly spam skirmish.

I reckon that it would only boost arena participitation, currently a large amount of players especially new ones don't even try arenas. There is no easy way for them to get in a team  or find a teamates to start a new one. They just mindlessly spam dungeons or even LFR just because its a way for them to experience group content, but don't even dare to touch arena. With a solo rating people would be more tempted to try and play arena with them(if it was high), and it would be an easier way in then spamming chat channels and failing every single time because people lied about their ratings, just started, are boosts etc. etc. etc. And would be a fairer representation of their skill level (if you take the class and their rating into account)

You could argue that the toxic community and imbalance in comps don't allow for this kind of system, but in games like Dota and LoL with from my own experience as toxic communties there are also balance issues where people pick the hero they like to play over what is viable. However this stabalizes on higher ratings where people are more tempted to play to win.

the same goes for rbgs.


#4253215 Most OP shizzle in WoD

Posted Korzul on 04 November 2014 - 11:44 PM

Most of the complaints will be about:

Burst of speed - Still stupid

Frozen Ammo - Slows on hunter auto attacks... most melee (esp dk's/warriors) are going to be crying so fucking hard about this.

HoTW - 100k+ FB crits on 300k health pools, the damage is nuts and the healing increase means you need little outside of ironbark/cenarions the occasional ns to top people during it. All usable whilst in forms ofc.

Faerie Swarm - Zero mana cost. Got hots rolling and your entires teams safe as a resto druid? Literally spam swarm.. every.. single.. global just to piss people off (kinda fun doing it to rogues who are trying to run away).

Glyph of shield slam - Lets attach a dispel to your main damaging ability (6 sec cd) that gets random resets. Such... ideas..

Self healing/offhealing - Because it's massively broken on so many specs now and it's not uncommon to end an arena match with multiple dps specs doing 40-50% of the output of their healer.


#4232821 WoW Up to 7.4 Million Subscribers

Posted Ravv on 15 October 2014 - 10:55 AM

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#4212688 5x Gladiator Death Knight stream

Posted mirox on 19 September 2014 - 01:48 PM

Some of our past projects: https://www.youtube....h?v=IuORBUMQzKI

See you in WOD, shamans :)


#4153106 Ban the word rbg from arenajunkies

Posted Braindance on 23 June 2014 - 09:42 PM

Remove that plague


#4146914 Ability Lag Fix

Posted Typhlosion on 18 June 2014 - 01:07 PM

So you're saying that I won't be cycloned with spell reflect up 100% of the time anymore? Thanks blizzard!


#4146716 Ability Lag Fix

Posted Speedymart on 18 June 2014 - 09:24 AM

Figured this deserved its own thread

Ya'll know what I'm talking about - Priest lifeswaps someone, but they still die. Getting cloned with spell reflect up? Interrupting and still getting CC'd? How about a target dieing even though you NS'd them?

Shit still goes on CD but it doesn't matter. Anyway, turns out Blizzard has a fix for WoD


Quote

I don't want to get too deep into the under-the-hood workings of WoW servers, but here's a super short version. Any action that one unit takes on another different unit used to be processed in batches every 400ms. Some very attentive people may have noticed that healing yourself would give you the health instantly (minus client/server latency), whereas healing another unit would incur a delay of between 0ms and 400ms (again, on top of client/server latency). Same with damaging, applying auras, interrupting, knocking back, etc.

That delay can feel bad just due to the somewhat laggy responsiveness feeling, but also because the state of things can change during that time. For example: Holly the Holy Priest is healing Punky the Brewmaster. Punky spikes low, and Holly hits Guardian Spirit in a panic. The server verifies that Holly is able to cast it, and that Punky is alive (great!). The cast goes off, Guardian Spirit goes on cooldown, and a request is placed for the Guardian Spirit aura (that prevents dying) to be placed on Punky. That request will be filled next time the 400ms timer loops, which happens to be 320ms from now. 250ms later, the boss lands another hit on on Punky. Punky dies. Sadface. Another 70ms goes by, and the Guardian Spirit aura request pops up, and goes "Hey guys, I'm here!... Aww... damn, I missed the party. Sadface."

We no longer batch them up like that. We just do it as fast as we can, which usually amounts to between 1ms and 10ms later. It took a considerable amount of work to get it working that way, but we're very pleased with the results so far; the game feels noticeably more responsive.

I can't guarantee that you'll never ever again run into cases where Guardian Spirit went on cooldown and the tank still died... but it'll be literally 40x rarer than before, and the whole game will feel more responsive too.

http://us.battle.net...8929?page=6#114



WoD is looking better and better


#4139423 Arena123 targetting actually hurts arena

Posted Tosan on 11 June 2014 - 06:19 AM

Completely agree with OP.


#4139084 Arena123 targetting actually hurts arena

Posted Nadagast on 10 June 2014 - 10:28 PM

Even though I abuse the shit out of them, I agree that arena 1-3 binds are not good for the game.  They reduce the importance of court vision and contribute a huge amount to keybind bloat.  I hope they do something about them in WoD.


#4138967 Arena123 targetting actually hurts arena

Posted inhume on 10 June 2014 - 08:44 PM

It's an interesting idea that's occurred to me recently, arena123 targetting is actually bad for arena. It gives the ability to gurantee that you will hit your desired opponent at anytime. This is regardless if you actually know where they are on the map or if they've just come out of stealth(insert some sort of you can't see me mechanic). You just mindlessly spam your mechanic to peel for someone, knowing that they are in arena1, 2, or 3 because they've made that mechanic available. It takes away from the awareness of the player of the position of the opponent and to target said opponent. It has made pvp become more like pve, where you press a macro to select the desired target for you (Think of all the boss fights were you make specific macros just to target a certain mob). It's lessened the value of focus dropping mechanics because people are no longer using their counterspells on focus as much because they are using arena123.


Note: I actually find that arena123 does improve gameplay in terms of ease of use but it greatly hinders the aspect of player capability.


Holinka tweet - https://twitter.com/...664935033090048

MMO thread +poll
http://www.mmo-champ...emoval-possibly
A poll was put on that page by the guy who tweeted at holinka.


#4135901 Laziness of blizzard

Posted Enimos on 06 June 2014 - 11:00 AM

So its gonna be like TBC where the sets at least looked good

I dont see why theres a need to complain about this. The pvp sets since s5 has looked like horse shit


#3375076 This vicious cycle.

Posted Unappealing on 17 July 2011 - 06:01 PM

Admittedly I'm a little bored at work, and also a little tired. But something needs to be said, for those aren't already on the same page.

This thought has grilled me, and is the real reason i think anyone ever quits wow, pvpers anyways.
We are part of a formula, we have been trained to accept a terrible system and it seems were all entirely oblivious to it.
This thread is probably completely pointless as we all must be aware of this, but no one seems to talk about it anymore, we complain about specific stuff sure, but in general we just sit back and take it, its just the way it is and even though it is responsible for every other issue, we just close our eyes to it.

Every change, every new addition, every removal and tweek, its all just bullshit. It's what we wait for, to keep us coming back, to fix the new imbalance they pointlessly put into the game, so that hey it might be balanced next patch, and again, and again, and again, over and over and over. You could argue pve is responsible for this, but its not, its simlpy an excuse for blizzard to continue to be what we mistake as laziness. It's not laziness, ladies and gentlemen, its their fucking business model.

We get bored of one extremely long season, we complain endlessly about specific things over and over, a new patch here, and nerf there, and a new imbalance here. Over and over again. Sounds like im accusing blizzard of some giant conspiracy, but quite honestly at this point its pretty clear how this hamster wheel functions.

They make "mistakes", then say "oops! we didn't intend for this terrible system to not work as intended", then they reel us back in with the off chance they might fix it at some point down the road - chances are after another $15 from all of us is again safely in their pockets. It is genuinely insane.

As every season mellows out and takes for ever to finish we all just zombify and become use to it, we melt away brain cells endlessly doing the same thing accomplishing almost nothing, i mean in the end were suppose to be having fun, and dont get me wrong i do have fun when i arena with cool people, but honestly how can one sit back and even consider that its possible to have fun doing the same broken imbalnced garbage for 7 months in a row.

The thing that gets me the most, is when they finally bring in a new season, we all battled away for our titles and our gear and wait so patiently to get the next best shit, then its finally available! We all gear up like crack-fiends addicted to bigger numbers. We all hit pretty hard as the season starts and people complain, then they just buff reseilence and health pools, so even though were doing more damage and everyones all excited for this refreshing change, NOTHING HAS CHANGED lol.

Its depressing, this thread is depressing, the state of this game is depressing, but whats more depressing than anything is seeing all these quality people, all you guys, slave away as you get gouged by blizzard over and over again.

Were just part of a vicious cycle, a business model, an endlessly perpetuating and cleverly designed money making machine. Blizzard really doesn't give a shit what you say or complain about - they have it all planned out, and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.

Sad face.


#4087573 Windwalkers need some serious nerfs to damage...

Posted Primius on 27 March 2014 - 02:23 PM

Here is a gem tonight from a 3s game..

http://imgur.com/pUdpOta

Look at where the FoF starts. I got Legsweep to get demat right before... So the FoF was DRed and I was able to get a Healing Elixir proc from Chi-Brew before I died.

I took 351,519 damage from the FoF alone. Now look at all the other damage I took during a stun you can't get out of?? 3 of the 4 hits crit, and if they all had crit and if chi-wave had been going I could have taken 500k damage during a cc you can't trinket out of from only the WW. Remember this isn't even full geared yet. That means those FoF will be critting for 115-120k by season end.

Yes WW damage is ridiculous OP. 3 FoF crits for over 100k.

Yeah that is really balanced.

As I said in the other thread.  Mistweavers need some serious damage reduction or some classes need serious damage nerfs.

Stuff like this just shouldn't be allowed.

/flame on




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