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Member Since 23 Feb 2009
Offline Last Active Nov 24 2014 03:13 AM

#3880512 Cloak and Dagger nerfed on PTR

Posted WildeHilde on 26 April 2013 - 09:33 AM

Yes, the issue is the combination of C&D and Subterfuge. Thought about it and you are right, the 40 energy would have close to no effect as pretty much no one ever uses Ambush without Find Weakness up first except for some rare cases in which you finish someone with Vanish -> Ambush.

Your suggestions (15 yard range and first offensive move removes Subterfuge) I doubt these talents would be worth it anymore, as it neither adds to mobility nor to damage in any way. 15 yard means to cannot follow Blink or Disengage, Chi Torpedo or Displacer Beast etc. Subterfuge would only allow to get damaged and still land your opener.

That would promote the run or dance playstyle even more in which rogues pretty much have nothing outside of dance. I think that either would make 90% of the rogues try to blow absolutely everything in the opener or force them to play like Kalimist did during the S8 regionals, which did not work although that team was pretty damn good during that time.

I think rewarding restealths is a good thing, it's easy to prevent and has a huge trade-off. I would rather remove Cloak and Dagger completely than nerfing both talents to the ground. Cloak and Dagger makes things too easy, true. But Subterfuge cross-cc is good gameplay in my opinion and it has a trade-off with the energy cost.

#3873566 Proc vs. onUse trinket for non Human rogues

Posted ohnoes on 10 April 2013 - 08:51 PM

isn't proc+synapse paired together almost 2700 more agility difference than on use(unless you gem agility for BS sockets in which case it would be around 2300 more agility)? Seems kind of obvious to me. Proc trinket lines up very often when you want to burst since the internal is low (45s internal 20 sec buff uptime)

#3868128 Shuriken Toss

Posted KPul on 28 March 2013 - 07:19 PM

Now before everyone starts flaming me saying I'm "defending an OP ability" or trying to prevent my class from being nerfed. I am just here to share my knowledge of shuriken toss with those of you who might not know much about it.  

Shuriken toss:
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In previous posts you will see people complain about HUGE crits recieved from shuriken toss.  I will show you screenshots of how these large numbers were applied. Most of these complaints about 40k crits from shuriken toss are slightly skewed and i will show you why.

This is the recount SS of where i was able to replicate the 40k shuriken toss crit on my hunter friend "Pretend". I was only able to replicate the 40k crits you guys were talking about with everything procced at the same time.  I had to open with garrote for 'Find Weakness'(lowers enemy's armor by 70%), gain 'Sanguinary Vein' From the bleed (Rogue does 20% more damage to the target), 'Master of Subtlety'(Rogue does 10% more damage for 6 seconds after breaking stealth), and also have my On use AND Proc trinket up at the same time.

now before you guys think I dont have any gear. I will link armories of both partys in the screen shot



the hunter has 68.21% resil and my rogue is pretty much gear capped with 34042 Attack power and 56.66% PvPPower.

here is the SS:
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While i do agree that when the stars align that shuriken toss hits very, very hard.  Wouldn't you guys agree that when a player has trinkets procced and such situations enabled that allow such high damage output, that you guys would be forced to start CC'ing him at that point. You are shooting yourself in the foot if you dont want to CC the targets that pop their on use trinkets because at that point they, usually, are going for the kill.

Now I'm going to post screenshots of what kind of damage shuriken toss will do if trinkets arent procced.  In this SS the rogue opened with garrote to gain Find Weakness and Sanguinary Vein.

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Not as crazy as the 40k crits but I will agree that it is still hitting very hard. But since when haven't rogues done large amounts of damage coming out of stealth.  Its usually a high rated teams mission to own a rogues opener am I right?

Here is a screen shot of a rogues shuriken toss spam while the target has only has rupture on him.

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Pretty hard hitting still during this situation, this and the screenshot below are probably the most often seen scenarios where the rogue is spamming shuriken toss, most likely rooted or snared while Dance and Vanish are on cd

This screenshot is the damage the rogue does with shuriken toss while being kited effectively.  He doesn't have Find Weakness or his Sanguinary Vein bleeds on the target.  This is what happens to a rogue who cannot connect to a target after his cooldowns have fallen.

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I am with the general public in saying that shuriken toss is a very overpowered ability in 1v1 situations because there isn't a class that can  CC the rogue during (subterfuge) while its burst window is active. (Find Weakness/Sanguinary Vein/Master of Subtlety).   But in matches where the target the rogue is hitting has a healer.   That burst window is best utilized with better moves such as Ambush/Eviscerate.   I for one use shuriken toss to make sure i can keep up decent pressure while not over extending.. its a very useful move to keep combo's / finishers and stay in a safe spot while you set up an opportune swap.   I personally would like to see shuriken toss reverted to the way it was back in 5.0. But what not many people realize is that we will still have those 40k crits with shuriken toss that everyone complains about.  We will just lose our auto attack portion of the attack where, in my opinion, most of the op damage comes from.