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Member Since 18 Feb 2009
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#3913234 PvPTR 5.4 Frostmage Feedback

Posted Crawthz on 14 July 2013 - 10:54 AM

Intro

Aight, as requested on the PvPTR thread earlier, I will be giving my own feedback about Frostmages in 5.4. The opinions on this post are my own and I will try to cut down Frostmages into grasslevel in theory, so that it should be easy to read for any level of player.

A short about me, I am an enthusiast theorycrafter. In short, I love asking "What was the logic someone thought when making this", "What drove the person doing this" and "What does this affect in the whole big scheme".

For this post, I've done about 25-30h of PTR testing.

The Frostmage

Keywords

-Great setup potential for damage
-Great on-demand burst
-Great control

-Rather squishy with only one real defensive cooldown
-Zero damage outside of on-demand burst (the 1 out of 10 games midgame proc fishing can    be good)
-No real damage if not set up at all

Alright, so.. Above I've cut down Frostmage into easy-to-recognize words and sentences and I believe we all can agree to. Currently in 5.3, Frostmages have the damage to kill a target who doesn't have defensive cooldowns left and is not getting peeled at all with the short cooldowns of Mages. This damage is easily seen and with defensive cooldowns or peeling, is easily stopped or completely negated. This is why every single meaningful damage Frostmage puts out has to be set up; which is done by controlling the enemy healer by either Poly/CS'ing him or going on him with Deep Freeze. Any little interrupt, pushback, stun; any control effect really will stop your team-mate from dying.
Playing comps like FMP gives you a massive control potential aswell; Deep into PoM RoF/Poly into CS into Nova/Rof/Poly and then your partner takes over for a while and your control is off from DR already.

Mages don't do any damage at all outside of the on-demand burst. Frostbolt casting is in most of the cases not worth it or impossible and you need to save your procs for damage later when you and your partner is ready to go. Some rare cases, you can sit midfield and spamcast Frostbolt and fish procs and can force alot of stuff yourself, but this should never happen in theory.

Mages are also very squishy but that is covered mostly with the mobility and control. But Mages are still very squishy and often when you see two classes connecting on to the mage even for a split second, that's Ice Block forced.



The Changes


I won't be going into Datamined info, only what is said on us.battle.net PTR Blogs.

Talents
  • Frost Bomb now deals 70% damage to players (up from 60%).
  • Living Bomb now deals 85% damage to players (up from 70%).
  • Nether Tempest now deals 85% damage to players (up from 70%).
  • Temporal Shield now also reduces damage taken by 15% while active in addition to existing effects.
Glyphs
  • Glyph of Blink now increases distance travelled with the Blink spell by 8 yards (up from 5 yards).
  • Glyph of Remove Curse now increases the damage dealt by 15% after successfully removing a curse (up from 10%).
  • Glyph of Spellsteal now heals the Mage for 5% of their maximum health after successfully stealing a spell (up from 3%).
Frost
  • Mastery: Frostburn has been redesigned. Fingers of Frost now increases the damage of Ice Lance by an additional 2%, Brain Freeze increases the damage of the instant cast Frostfire Bolt by 2%, and damage done by the Mage's Water Elemental is increased by 2%.


The effect of change


I will be covering only the Mastery change, because the rest are just small and marginal changes.

What Mastery change does to Frostmages?
  • Casting is yet again worthless, Frostbolt can be, without any exaggeration, removed from the bars. My Frostbolt does 25k crits on Deep on PTR. Ice Lance is around the same
  • Deep Freeze no longer increases Frostmages damage. Bursting into Deep is gone
  • On-Demand burst has been lowered to cover almost nothing, without any kind of compensation
I have said on Twitter to Holinka, that Frostmage is now a sad version of Elemental Shaman and the worst caster on PTR. Why did I choose exactly those words?
Because; procs are procs, they are RNG. There's two abilities that gives us FoF procs on-demand and those are Orb and Freeze. Bomb spells give us RNG Frostfire bolts. Frostbolt and Blizzard give us RNG FoF procs. So there's 1min CD and 24sec CD that gives us reliably procs and rest is just RNG.
What was the answer from Holinka to this?
"That's being terribly dramatic"

So, let me say this again. Frostmages have been built around on-demand damage and control. With this Mastery change, the on-demand damage has been taken away.

What does this mean then? Frostmage is now a procmachine, heavily relying on procs to have a chance to kill. A Frostmage is no longer in control of the damage he puts out. It can be double FoF and one Brainfreeze proc into double FoF and 5 Brainfreeze procs.

On live 5.3 currently, if all cooldowns and trinkets forced and no peeling is available, Deep + Orb + Alter Timed procs gives you almost guaranteed kill. Just a Deep wont be guaranteed, most of the times your target stays alive. Also, once your killtarget/healer is out of the control, the killwindow is shut down, and you have to start building the killwindow again.

On 5.4 PTR, my Deep + Orb + procs with Alter time cuts about 50% of someones HP. Even a Treantstun that I blink afterwards reduces the damage I do into Deep + CS to about 20%.

My opinions


My own thinking why this was changed is because of low-mid experienced players. Deep + Orb is a damn powerfull skill currently and inexperienced players have huge trouble surviving this. This is why you see twice a day streams with titles such as "1v2 mage" and those are multiglad/r1 level players who play at 1k-1.5k MMR against players who have no idea how to use defensive CDs or stop the damage.

My own opinion how to change the damage that Frostmages can dish out:

Mastery: Frostburn. Passive
Your Frostbolt, Magebomb spells, Ice Lance and Frostfire Bolt gain Frostburn effect when casted on a Frozen target, increasing the damage done to the target by n%

What does this change you might ask? Well, for starters Frozen Orb lost it's Mastery completely, resulting in about 15k Orb crits maximum.
Secondly, compared to current 5.4 PTR Mastery, it still promotes casting and isn't such a "magekiller" gamechanging.
Also, Deep Freeze will remain as it is: A damage cooldown that gives Frostmages the required killwindow building gamestyle which is still the reason you might want to have a mage in the team.

-------------

I hope I've cleared out my opinion clearly and I do want to see a slight nerf to Frostmages damage, but it shouldn't be on the massive scale it currently is on PTR. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated and I encourage the discussion about Frostmages PTR state kept on one thread to keep the voices of the community in one place, so it's easier for Blizzard employees to read it (yes they've said they read Arena Junkies aswell)


#3907779 Is this even possible?

Posted Mostvp71 on 03 July 2013 - 06:04 PM



Video got reported...? So I uploaded a new one added fitting music this time.


#3906733 New Arena tournament hosted by Bleached Bones ~30 000$ prize pool

Posted Gothiques on 01 July 2013 - 02:58 PM

We are starting this Friday!


Posted Image

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#3906613 "Changes" By Tupac WoW Parody

Posted flannelsoff on 01 July 2013 - 06:23 AM

why does this guy have access


#3904921 "Exciting pvp changes"

Posted flannelsoff on 27 June 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostGlink, on 27 June 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

new pvp armor set $25 on blizzard store
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#3903683 S13 representation statistics

Posted Braindance on 23 June 2013 - 05:40 AM

http://www.arenamate.net/

Also comes with approximate title calculator.

Still at beta stage - pls show your support.


#3903628 Tweetin' Holinka with some Mage changes. Thoughts?

Posted nikolas on 23 June 2013 - 01:25 AM

Feedback on the current state of Mages, the 5.4 PTR changes and what PvE has done to Frost:
http://pastebin.com/ZJXnhMR6

Suggested Mage changes for upcoming expansion:
http://pastebin.com/n6sJJD2W

Quote

Frost Mage changes to transfer damage from instant cast procs to Frostbolt
23.06.2013

-- Introduction
Hello Holinka, again. Hopefully you read my last tweet. It was my first tweet ever, and I therefore hold it very high. This is the second tweet however. Not quite as impressive as being the first tweet, but in this case it might be just as important as its all about how you can improve the design of Frost Mages, most likely for an upcoming expansion. I thank you for your time and I hope that you appreciate feedback exceeding the 140 character limit of Twitter. I will be commenting most changes using asterisks (*) to mark the beginning and the end.

-- Frost Mage patch notes to improve Frostbolt in PvP

Frostbolt
- Damage increased by 25%
* All these notes are about moving damage from other spells to Frostbolt while maintaining a valid PvE rotation. *

Fire Blast
- Damage increased by 50%
* Instant damage will be nerfed alot. Increasing the damage of a more predictable source of instant damage to compensate. *

Cone of Cold
- Damage increased by 300%
* Glyph should be baseline. The ability has never been weaker than in this expansion. *

Water Elemental: Freeze
- No longer grants Fingers of Frost when successfully hit
* Every game starts with a pet nova and one to two Ice Lances and a Deep Freeze. It feels very wrong casting a Fingers of Frost Ice Lance into a Shatter combo with Freeze already present. *

Frozen Orb
- Damage decreased by 30%
* Nerf to the Frost Mage super shatter. *
- Duration increased to 15 sec, up from 10 sec
* Compensate for the nerf for PvE. *
- Can't proc Fingers of Frost more than once every second
* Hitting multiple enemies shouldn't overwhelm you with procs, but instead make it a more consistent flow. *

Fingers of Frost
- Frostbolt now also benefits from, and consumes, Fingers of Frost
* It is the only way to make a hardcasting Frost Mage scary in PvP. *
- Cone of Cold now has a 15% chance to trigger Fingers of Frost
* Added another source of Fingers of Frost due to Freeze nerf. *
- Frost Armor now has a 5% chance to trigger Fingers of Frost
* Added a anti-train mechanic due to relying more on Frostbolt. *
- Ice Lance no longer gets a 25% damage increase when used with Fingers of Frost
* Merging numbers for the next change. *
- Ice Lance damage versus non-player target is increased by 100% when used with Fingers of Frost
* Making Ice Lance a high priority in PvE while keeping it in line in PvP. *

"The Fingers of Frost effect causes your next
Frostbolt, Ice Lance or Deep Freeze to act as if
your target were frozen, and increase Ice Lance
damage by 100% versus non-player targets."

Mastery: Frostburn
- Revert 5.4 PTR changes
- Base mastery reduced to 7.5
* Lowering the base percent of Mastery to make the stat more attractive. *
- Now requires 400 rating per point of Mastery, up from 300
* Nerf to compensate for Frostbolt being put back on Fingers of Frost. Ideally, Frostburn values shouldn't go beyond ~30% in PvP to keep the damage normalized outside of procs. *

Frostfire Bolt
- Increase damage by 15%
* Compensate for the Mastery change and it needs to hit between 90%-110% damage of a frozen Frostbolt. *

At this point I think the ratio between Mage's damaging abilities is in a very good place. This will however result in a pretty big PvE buff, regardless of the Mastery nerf. I think that a PvP coefficient on Ice Lance is neccesary to achieve the best possibly PvE and PvP experience aslong as you insist on having Ice Lance in the PvE rotation.
Ways to tune down Frost PvE damage after these changes:

- Cut all damage by X%
- Consider lowering the damage increase on Ice Lance when cast versus non-player targets
- Reduce damage of Mage Bombs, but also remove the player damage coefficients
- Keep Frozen Orb at 10 sec duration
- Consider removing the damage increase on Frostbolt debuff as its no longer needed to keep Ice Lance in check in PvP. Will also nerf Water Elemental damage. Consider increasing all damage up a bit to compensate
- Add another PvP exception, for example to Shatter:

"Shatter
Doubles the critical strike chance of all your
spells against frozen targets plus an additional
50% versus players."

This will increase the Critical Strike cap of Frost in PvE to 50%, making Crit, Mastery and Haste much more equal secondary stats.

This is how the PvE rotation will look like:

Frozen Orb > Frost Bomb > Shatter Ice Lances after Frostbolts with Fingers of Frost > Casting Brain Freeze > Frostbolt

Having Frostbolt on Fingers of Frost will allow you cast "old school" Shatters as a part of your rotation, increasing the fun factor and the skill cap.


-- Mage patch notes to improve gameplay in PvP

Frost Armor
- Cast time removed, down from 3 sec
- Slow increased to 40%, up from 30%

Mage Armor
- Cast time removed, down from 3 sec
- Duration of harmful magic effects reduced by 20%, down from 25%

Molten Armor
- Cast time removed, down from 3 sec
- Attacks against you applies the Weakening Blows debuff (10% less physical damage done)

Glyph of Armors
- Mage Armor: Duration of harmful magic effects reduced by an additional 10%
- Molten Armor: Increase armor by an additional 50%
- Frost Armor: The Frost Armor debuff will now stack up to 10 times (Maximum one stack per sec). On the 10th application the target will be frozen for 4 sec.

* The Frost Armor change will introduce a "Controlled" Frostbite. One dispel will remove all stacks. Either shares diminishing returns with Ice Ward or on it's own, preferably on it's own. These changes to Armors and the glyph will add alot more dept to the the Mage class. It will reintroduce Armor toggeling, especially with Weakening Blows on Molten Armor, and make the Glyph of Armors less mandatory. Personally I've always thought it was abit weird that it just increased whatever the Armor did by 10 percent points. *

Invisibility
- You can no longer see enemies while invisible

Glyph of Invisibility
- No longer increase movement speed while invisible
- You can now see nearby enemies while invisible
* Mages will have to commit a glyph slot if they want to go for the cookie cutter opener. The invis Shatter happens to be alot stronger in the lower brackets of Arena because people don't use Arena123 Counterspell macros. This will in a sense "free up" a glyph slot for high rated Mages that opts to not go for that play style. *

Glyph of Blink
- No longer increase range traveled when casting Blink
- Removes movement slowing effects when casting Blink

Glyph of Cone of Cold
- Replaced with Glyph of Alter Time

NEW Glyph of Alter Time
- All health healed when Alter Time is active will be added to your saved health value when the spell resolves
* Using Alter Time defensively at the moment is little used because you can't play too much around it versus dispellers, therefore making it alot better to abuse with instant procs instead. The Glyph will not be "core" so it will be an active decision to pick it up. *

Glyph of Frost Nova
- No longer reduce the cooldown of Frost Nova
- Increase all damage dealt by 20% to targets affected by your Frost Nova
* The old version is just horrible because how diminishing returns work. The new one will create scenarios where you are more likely to go for a Frost Nova Shatter instead of just casting Frostbolts. *

Glyph of Ice Block
- No longer triggers a free Frost Nova or makes you immune to spells
- When attacked by a spell while in Ice Block, you have a 100% chance to reflect it back at the attacker.
* Just a fun tool to have access to. In my opinion way more in line than the Hunter's "Glyph of Mirrored Blades" because Ice Block is a much bigger commitment. *

Glyph of Remove Curse
- Revert 5.4 PTR changes
* This glyph really didn't need buffing in the first place. By making Glyph of Armors less mandatory, and as Hunters representation in Arena goes down, this glyph with automatically start to pop up here and there. Remember there is only one class in the game that consistently puts up curses. *

Glyph of Counterspell
- No longer increase cooldown of Counterspell
* The drawback is too big for it to be ever considered in Arena especially seeing that you rarely cast, and Counterspell is mostly used as a blanket silence on healers. *

Presence of Mind
- Cooldown increased to 2 min, up from 1.5 min
* Needs nerfed, preferably even higher cooldown than 2 min, replaced with a new talent or have certain spells like Polymorph removed from being used with it. *

Ice Floes
- Cooldown reduced to 20 sec
- Reduced to one charge
* Most of the time you only need to get that one cast off. This will buff it in PvP while as in PvE it will remain relatively the same. *

-- Misc changes

Weakened Blows
- Duration reduced to 20 sec, down from 30 sec.
* It is abit long, don't you think? *


-- Final words

On a side note I must say I got positively surprised when reading the Hunter changes and the Tie Breaker change to Arena. Remember for next expansion to keep what you have been trying to balance during entire Mists of Pandaria, and not completely flip - turn upside down the game. Before you stop reading I would like you to take a moment, so just sit right there, and I will tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel-Air.


Salokin-EU Sylvanas

There is lack of things to read on these class forums, so you might aswell just get starting :)

And of course, share your thoughts!


#3903155 What rogues need to be competitive

Posted Ayume on 21 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

I would like to start by saying that I don’t think rogues are currently capable of competing at a tournament level setting. The reason for this is that rogues are incredibly flimsy, the kills we get are based on critting eviscerate and making sure our other dps is doing maximum +25% damage (via tricks of the trade and prey on the weak). Only one or two things have to go wrong for us to have next to no chance at winning.


Below are the buffs I think rogues need to be both more fun and competitive:
  • Sanguinary Vein now gives a +30% chance to Critical Strike Ambush and Backstab (in PvP only).
  • Hemorrhage now also increases the duration of our Rupture by 6 seconds(stacks to maximum  rupture duration)
  • Rogue PVP glove bonus changed to “Sprint now removes all roots and movement impairing effects when activated” (not immune)
  • Increased damage of backstab by 20% (in PvP only)

I’ll elaborate on the reasoning for each change:
  • Sanguinary Vein right now is a mandatory effect all rogues have to apply to the target and it feels quite unrewarding, the goal here is to make it feel like you –want- to apply rupture instead of it feeling like a chore. Both ambush and backstab really need to be criting or hitting harder, and the safest of these two options is buffing crit chance. This makes it easier to balance going forward since we can expect a 50% rate of crit on the ability and balance the damage around its maximum potential, instead of around its average non-crit.
  • Hemorrhage serves next to no purpose other than a way to drain energy if you can’t manage to get behind your target, in the past this was fine as it did about 10% less damage than backstab so it felt ok. Now it does roughly 35% less damage and costs 5 less energy, it really just feels clunky and not fun to use. My proposed change to it would help alleviate the exasperation of keeping 4 abilities up at once (Rupture, Slice & Dice, Feint, Recuperation) and also make it serve a good purpose in PvP.
  • The Rogue glove PVP bonus change is because rogues need a bit more mobility and I imagine that blizzard does not want to buff shadowstep, since it’s already the most taken talent and they want choice on each talent tier. This change could also be a glyph, which would make it more of a sacrifice and less of a buff since our glyphs are very tight as is (blind, garrote, cheapshot, feint). But rogues really do need a buff to mobility and I don’t feel like this change would be over doing it.
  • The increased damage to backstab in PvP is because backstab should be our primary source of damage, and currently it’s quite lackluster. A backstab right now on a mail target with Find Weakness and every other buff we have (glove bonus, pvp proc, sang vain, dancing steel) does about 35-40k crit. Now I feel that 35-40k crits would be fine WITHOUT find weakness and if we crit often, which we don’t. Majority of the time we won’t have find weakness on the target, and we have a 25% chance to crit. Right now my average backstab on cloth is 12k, on plate 8k, and the crits do obviously 24k and 16k respectively (which is absurdly low for it being our primary source of damage outside of eviscerate which I will go over below)


Ok so now that I’ve gone over the buffs, here’s what I think should be nerfed:
  • Subtlety mastery: Executioner needs to have its scaling reduced by 30% or so.
  • Prey on the Weak is now 7% damage bonus instead of 10%
  • Subterfuge reduced to 1.5 or 2 second duration

Reasoning behind these changes:
  • Eviscerate really just does a bit too much damage if it crits when mastery is stacked this high. On average against mail or cloth(with all procs and find weakness) I will get between 85-105k eviscerates crits, which I can then just immediately do again with mark for death, equating to a potential 210k in 2 globals. No one wants to see that kind of damage on demand. Sure it doesn’t always happen since our crit is low, but when it does it leaves the victim quite unhappy, and as a rogue I feel unsatisfied winning this way. Currently this is our only way of winning (what I aim to have change with these adjustments).
  • Prey on the weak is for the same reasons as above, but also to allow some choice in this tier, I really like paralytic poison, and I really like dirty tricks, but right now I can’t trade 10% damage for my partner and I for some fun utility. I like this tier and would really like it if it were more of a choice.
  • Subterfuge currently is broken due to a variety of reasons, the main one I can say for sure is that the victim cannot see what abilities the rogue is using, and another is that his partners cannot peel for him during it. With subtlety mastery the way it is a rogue can pop every cooldown in that window and get someone under 40% with eviscerate chain crits without even leaving stealth. Another problem is that AoEing a rogue in stealth and him having 3 seconds (more if you count vanish -> subterfuge) until he comes back out is a bit absurd, really I feel that you should be rewarded for guesstimating correctly when he’s stealthed. This will also allow more choice in this talent tier.


Feel free to chime in if you guys want, would be great to hear everyone else's opinion and refine this as needed.


#3900732 New Arena tournament hosted by Bleached Bones ~30 000$ prize pool

Posted Svetozarov on 16 June 2013 - 07:10 PM

Once again we are happy to annonce a new tournament called League of Arenas hosted by Bleached Bones and its partners.  This tournament is going to be unlike anything you have seen before! The prize pool for the first season which will last untill the end of the current arena season will be around 30 000 $!


We were thinking a lot about the rules, format and gear. How to make arenas balanced?
As always genious decision is the most simple. Let the players choose setups themselfs, like they do it in Leagues of Legends or DotA. They will be able to ban imbalanced specs, counterpick enemy team using intellect and not wine about the setups anymore. Dont wanna face BM hunters? Ban them. Restor shamans are OP against wizards? Ban them too. But keep in mind that enemy team will also break your supercomp and will make it weaker.

Basics:
Each team that is participating in Arena's League can consist of 3-5 members. They can play any classes and speccs. Before each game captains of both teams log in to special interface, where they can do picks and bans.  The interface was created by Prestige-Gaming programmers and the process of bans in picks will be executed via prestige-gaming.ru web page, thus the captain of each team should be registerd on prestige-gaming.

Bonuses from tournament format:

Teams can ban unbalanced specializations.
Mind-game between teams during the picks.
We will see great variety of different and sometimes exotic comps.
Players that can play different speccs or even classes would be very useful.
If any team played over 9000 in one fotm setup you can easily ban it and force them to play something different.


Registration:
For those who don't speak Russian it would be hard to register a team directly on the web page on their own thus the team captain should contact me (Svetozarov) via skype jam_ftw.  Be prepared to explain why you deserve to be in the tournament. The registration is extended untill June 26th.


#3896245 Help salvage s13: We need Hunters fixed!

Posted Ruddx on 07 June 2013 - 07:08 PM

I play Hunter since TBC and I never disliked my own class that much. It seriously disgusts me playing this game right now. Not even to mention that 99% of all the Hunters in this Game suck complete ass, now you can't even tell any diffrence anymore.
Time to quit once and forever.


#3875653 How To Lazer Chicken

Posted Conviqx on 15 April 2013 - 03:27 PM

Posted Image


#3872413 How To Lazer Chicken

Posted Udderly on 08 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

I wrote this guide from my blog (lazerchicken.com) primarily directed at those who are new to Moonkin, and especially directed at newer players (I tend to explain things that more experienced players might already know).  If you have anything to contribute (macros, mistakes to fix, ideas for new sections, comp playstyle strats) please comment and I’m glad to add them to the guide.  Thanks for reading!

Glyphs

Glyphs in MoP offer some really nice opportunity for making changes to suit your playstyle/comp, similar to how the talent trees are now setup.  There is really only one mandatory glyph, no matter what comp you play, and the others will vary based on comp/opponent/playstyle quite a bit.   Here is my list:

Moonbeast – Absolutely a must when it comes to glyphs (and probably the only one).   Being able to heal in form saves the global of going back into form after healing and allows you to keep the 15% damage reduction and 5% party haste from form while you are healing.  This could add up to some substantial extra globals over the course of a game.

Stampede – Being able to cast stampeding roar in moonkin form will give you and your party a nice dash and breaks their roots/snares.  Again, saves a global when using it.  Not a must, but a nice bonus.

Omens – This change has been brutal.  Everyone knows that vortex/beam was very gimmicky, but without the glyph of Solar Beam the radius of the beam is so tiny.  Omens is a decent choice if you get trained a lot, since you can spam Faerie Fire to get into eclipse, but it's so little energy that I find it underwhelming.  Personally, I don't run this glyph anymore since the 5.3 change.

Prowl– If you are playing a triple stealth team (let’s say Rogue/Moonkin/Rsham) having the ability to move faster for the opener can be huge.  This one is quite situational though, as it will really only be important for the opener.

Nature’s Grasp – Since they’ve changed the spell to have only one charge this expansion, it’s not as powerful as it once was, but still a really good talent.  Being able to use it twice as often is pretty darn powerful vs. melee cleaves.  A really good choice.

Barkskin – An old staple.  Great defensive glyph, so if you are playing a comp where you are the one who gets trained a lot, I would call this glyph a must, personally.

Cyclone– 5 yards may seem like a small distance, but if you ask anyone who played Moonkin prior to MOP you will hear how much that 4 yards can make a difference in a game.

Entangling Roots – Another one that sounds miniscule, but can be a game changer.  Being able to get off a second root on a healer who has been root-beamed, can mean the difference between an 8 second cc and a 12 second cc from one Solar Beam.  If you’re talented into vortex, this glyph becomes far less effective (no root/beams), though can still help with managing melee.

Fae Silence – This one has some really cool implications, especially in comps where you are playing more of a utility role, rather than the primary damage dealer.  Being able to pop into bear and follow a deep freeze or HoJ up with a 3 second silence when training a healer can be gamebreaking.  The only disadvantage (besides losing a global going into bear form) is the 15 second cd that’s triggered on FF when used in bear form.  But with dispels having a long cd now, this shouldn’t make it super difficult to keep FF on that annoying rogue or feral.

Most of the other glyphs can have some significance, but IMO are not nearly as gamebreaking as any of these when you’re playing a lazer chicken.  I’ll probably start out with Moonbeast, Solar Beam, and Barkskin for the extra cc and survivability, but I expect I’ll be swapping around with Cyclone, Nature’s Grasp, and Stampede depending on the comps I’m running and what our survivability finally settles down like once the devs are no longer tweaking things.

For minor glyphs, it’s mostly fun stuff, but there are a couple key ones:

Grace - Being able to jump down to Mine in AB without switching to catform to prevent damage can be huge.  Hop down, cast a rejuv on yourself in mid-air and get to the lazer duty!

Stag: - This allows you to be mounted (ummm…) while in travel form.  While we don’t know how this will finally play out in Arena’s with being in combat vs. not, this could certainly have huge implications depending on how they let us do it.  Keep watching and I’ll update as we know more.

Talents

Tier 1 - Mobility
With the nerf to displacer beast (no longer stealths you or drops target/focus), wild charge has become an excellent choice as well.  Whether it's kiting in travel form, jumping backwards just after Typhoon for some big distance to the incoming melee, or going caster form and leaping to your planted mushrooms (even on another level, like the bridge in Blade's Edge), this talent brings a load of utility.  It can also be a really great tool for eating traps (drop form, leap to healer, trap).  I do still enjoy playing with the new displacer, and find that I change between that and wild charge quite often, depending on the opponent and our comp.  I did play with having the 15% all the time increase and since it stacks with other increases, it can be a quite nice way to just stay very mobile, especially for beginners getting used to Druids.

Tier 2 - Healing
As much as I'd like to say there is a choice, this one is a no brainer.  1 minute Nature's Swiftness with a 50% increase on any heal it's used on is humungous. With 5.2 bringing back 25% of pvp power affecting heals coming from dps specs, we should see some really nice healing from Moonkin again.  Quite a bump from our really mediocre cata healing.  It's also great for that instant clone when someone pops all their cds on you and you can't cast.  Cenarion Ward received a substantial healing buff and has its uses (especially vs. LSD 2.0 that just tries to wear your team down) but will be very situational.  The other talent isn’t even an option, unfortunately.

Tier 2 - Anti-melee
This tier gives you a bunch of ways to keep that pesky rogue or warrior from smashing your face in.  Despite the nerf to a 30 sec cd (was 20) Typhoon is still the best for z-axis maps, such as Blade's Edge or Dalaran (man that Ret is gonna be pissed!).  Knocking back a rogue can give you the room to get that clone off on him without getting interrupted.  It's also great for an interrupt in a pinch.  Faerie Swarm has been buffed to an unlimited number of targets (huge change).  Being able to keep a 50% slow on the opposing dps while your shaman goes ghost wolf can be pretty awesome.  I would call it situational, now that we can tell who our opponents are before starting a match.  Mass Entanglement is great against the hunter zoo, with the cd reduced to 30 seconds.  You can use it from range, hit multiple targets, and the cooldown is solid to prevent DR issues.  All three talents will have uses in different circumstances.

Tier 4 - DPS
This is the first tier that gives you a change to your DPS.  Force of Nature is similar to our old trees, except they now cast wrath, hit a lot harder, instantly root your target on cast, and now have 3 separate charges on 20 second cds.  This is a nice replacement for vortex beam, especially since trees are off the global, but giving up Incarnation damage is a pretty big sacrifice.  The AI is still super wonky, keeping it mostly inferior to Incarnation.  Soul of the Forest is a pick it and forget it talent.  It helps you get to your eclipse faster but you don't have any control over it.  A good pick for someone learning Moonkin, but the other two give you much more potential.  Incarnation is pretty beast.  25% increased eclipse damage for thirty seconds is a lot of damage for a long time.  Line this up with an on use trinket, Nature's Vigil (from Tier 6), and your partners cd's and you could be doing a disgusting amount of burst.  Not to mention the sweet armor it puts on your character during the cd.

Tier 5 - CC
This is a really fun tier.  Bash is the same as our old ability except you can use it in ANY FORM!  Pretty great if you don't play with a stun class.  Disorienting Roar is basically a slightly longer cd Dragon's Breath that doesn't have a directional requirement.  If you are getting trained a lot, this can be a great peel, as well as a way to setup clone/roots chains.  Keep in mind that unlike Dragon's Breath, this does break on dot damage.  Ursol's Vortex is probably the most fun, especially combined with Solar Beam, and is easily the most potent cc in the game (since you can't trinket vortex or beam).  Note* - the nerf to Glyph of Solar Beam made this combo much less potent, but it still has it's uses.  I find using vortex just for peeling melee is still great, and if you play an uninformed healer, they will still panic in beam, sprint out, and get sucked back in by vortex.  

Tier 6 - Hybrid
This is where we remember that we aren't just a pure lazer turret class.  Nature's Vigil gives you the ability to do some healing while putting out more pressure.  This could be a great cd to turn the tides when you're team is getting behind.  All of a sudden the other team is taking monster damage and your team is getting healed back up.  Ideally, you'll be stacking Vigil with your Incarnation/Trees/on-use for extra damage.  Dream of Cenarius is going to have the least use, as it is pretty passive throughout.  Unless you're facing LSD 2.0 and need to keep up rejuvs on your team non-stop, the other two talents will outshine this one.  Heart of the Wild is insanely good for helping your team survive during the other team's burst.  The healing is stupidly powerful, and when used right, it can be gamebreaking.  Against DoT teams, just having HoTW rejuvs ticking on your entire team over the duration of demon soul/incarnation/etc. can really shut down the pressure of your opponent.  The passive int is nice, too, if you want another click and forget talent.

Really good point made by HackAttack3 about the viability of Moonkin in 2's (finally!), mostly due to HoTW.  Playing comps such as Lazer + Rogue/Ele/Dk/etc. can be a lot more fun, since you can reset the match with a few well timed heals.  Playing with a healer is still pretty painful, but at least 2 dps is a pretty good time and makes for relatively easy point capping.

Class pairings

Mage:  This is a really great class to pair up with, no matter which spec they are.  Fire  Mage/Moonkin creates a very powerful dot comp referred to as "Spicy Chicken Cleave".  Frost Mage/Moonkin is probably one of the best comps you can play right now, as a Moonkin.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Roots and Novas, Deep and Bash, Dragon's Breath (fire) and Disorienting Roar(talent), Polymorph and Ring of Frost (talent).  Otherwise, you have a ton of CC that doesn't share DR, which is awesome.  It may seem like a lot of DR share, but there is so much cc in this comp to begin with that it isn't a concern.
  • Symbiosis: Decent target, but you'll most likely give it to your healer in this situation.
Rogue:  Excellent pairing, and gives you another nifty name for your comp in "Dancing With the Stars".  Rogues and Druids combine for the best CC in the game, with very little DR so you can control the living hell out of the other team.  Comp revolves around the moonkin spreading damage, similar to RLS, and the rogue bursting the kill target, while controlling others.  Garrote -> Kidney -> Solarbeam on a healer that gets switched to when already at 75% will always get a kill or force major cds if done well.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Bash and Rogue stuns, Roots and Paralytic Poison (talent, when shiv'd).  So basically if you don't spec Bash, the DR issues are almost non existant and you have a ton of cc.
  • Symbiosis: Great choice.  You both earn a huge defensive cd, making your team an even harder kill.
Priest:  This is a great pairing as either Shadow or Disc.  Between being able to give your healer Cyclone and gain a second dispel is gamebreaking.  Shadow matches up nicely too, since you both have the ability to do a ton of damage when not trained, making any melee cleave think twice about who to train and who gets to freecast into them.  
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Nothing!  The cc pairing is awesome, adding fear, more silence (shadow), disarm (shadow) and whatever talents they pick up to your arsenal.
  • Symbiosis: The best swap.  Disc gets clone and you get Mass Dispel.  Shadow only gets a weak version of Tranquility, but you still get Mass Dispel which is huge.
Warrior:  I like the idea of pairing with a warrior, for a few reasons.  Beyond the fact that their symbiosis pairing is solid and you can get them out of roots as well every two minutes (trinket for your warrior!), the warrior single target burst allows you to play the utility role that they lack and just let the warrior eat things up.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Stormbolt (talent) and Bash and Shockwave (talent), possible Spell Reflected CC, Staggering Shout (talent) and Roots.  Even with the DR's here, I still think it's a solid amount of CC all around.
  • Symbiosis:  You give the warrior a root break and he gives you intervene, allowing the two of you to ping pong around the map.  Sounds like super interesting gameplay to me.
Death Knight:  Historically, this has been a rather poor pairing with a Moonkin.  When you're getting trained, the DK doesn't have a ton of ways to get someone else off you (unlike a warrior, who peels with his burst).  That being said, it is completely different in MoP!  Totally different play style than the typical Moonkin comp, in that you run in TSG style and pop everything in a beam.  Having double grip into the beam, followed by strangulate is brutal on a healer.  Really fun and exciting.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Chains of Ice root (chiblains talent) and Roots, pet Gnaw and Bash.  Not a ton of CC from the DK, but he does bring grip and necrotic which are such unique (and kinda OP sometimes) abilities.
  • Symbiosis:  Getting AMS is nice, and the mushrooms are fairly good for Unholy.  You would probably use it on your healer in this case.
Paladin:  The style of Moonkin/Ret is pretty interesting.  Being able to pop all cds and burst a healer during hoj ->solarbeam is pretty fantastic.  Holy could be a viable partner for many comps with their great anti melee cds (freedom, bop, sac) and the spammable cc they were given (repentance talent).
  • CC Diminishing Returns:  HoJ and Bash.  Paladins don't have a ton of cc, but what they have is pretty good stuff.
  • Symbiosis:  Ret is decent, since you gain an additional HoJ, but they get Wrath from you, which is something that will almost never get used.  Holy gets Rebirth, which isn't usable in arena, so it's pretty much a waste.
Warlock:  Affl Lock and Moonkin have excellent synergy, and came to be a dominant pair in Cataclysm by teaming up with a resto Shaman and forming LSD 2.0.  By dotting everything in sight and having excellent CC, this is a thriving pairing.  Destro and moonkin is also a nice pair, since either one of you left to free cast can be devastating to the opponent.  Demo can also be a good pairing, now that they can't be spam dispelled anymore.
  • CC Diminishing Returns:  Shadowfury and Bash and pet Axe Toss.  Nothing worth worrying about, so overall the team has a ton of cc choices.
  • Symbiosis:  An excellent pairing.  Lock gains rejuv, meaning you can have hots rolling from both dps on your team and you gain a really solid defensive cd that keeps you from being silenced/interrupted for 8 seconds.
Hunter:  Hunter was never a good choice because of dots ruining the ability to scatter trap, but with the new hunter glyphs that removes dots on scatter or trap, that is a thing of the past.  This comp has excellent CC and peels for each other and could be devastating when both are able to burst.
  • Symbiosis:  Unfortunately, hunter is the worst pairing here, as you gain a useless talent from him.  You'll be giving it to your healer in this pairing.
Shaman:  This is probably my favorite pairing for a number of reasons.  Shamans make up for a Moonkin’s weaknesses and visa versa.  Symbiosis is excellent no matter what shaman spec and you get really nice CC again.  Ele/Moonkin, or Ping Pong cleave, can be super annoying with all of the knockbacks, Resto has been a really strong healer lately, and Enhance has nice burst and utility to match the druid.
  • CC Diminishing Returns:  Earthbind (talent) and Roots and Frozen Power (talent), Capacitor Totem and Bash.  Very few DR issues here.
  • Symbiosis:  Ele or Enh gain SOLARBEAM!!  This is gamebreaking, now having 2 beams for your team every minute.  Gaining purge in exchange is huge as well.  Resto getting prowl can be big for the opener, as anyone who played with a resto druid knows.
Monk:  Monks seem to pair nicely with a lot of things right now, IMHO, both as a healer and a melee.  We have a nice Symbiosis pairing and the healy monk has disgusting amounts of throughput, while the melee monk can do a metric ton of damage while still having great control.
  • CC Diminishing Returns: Bash and Fists of Fury and Leg Sweep, Roots and Hamstring
  • Symbiosis:  You gain a 1 minute disarm (awesome!) and your healer will gain entangling roots or the melee will gain Bear Hug (a mediocre stun that does damage on a 1-min cd).  Pairing with either can be great for you, and double bonus if the pairing is with a MW!

Symbiosis
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How to Moonkin or Which Laser Should I Press??

Moonkin is one of the coolest specs in the game.  With the ability to nuke an opponent, heal your teammates, or just apply aoe pressure, the class with the best crowd control in the game offers us the chance to bring a lot of utility, while still bringing the damage.  Let's start with the basics:

BASIC SPELLS:

As a new moonkin, you'll want to know what some of the basics to the spec are.  Here are some of the most important spells and abilities:

Starsurge:  This is our bread and butter nuke spell.  Hardcasting this anytime it's off cool down is pretty much always a good idea and we have a chance at getting instant, no mana cost procs from dot damage to cast it again.  Lining up a nice SS hard cast into a SS proc can be some really nice burst.

Moonkin Form:  Shifting into form reduces your damage taken by 15%, increase your damage by 10%, and give 5% haste to you and everyone around you - pretty awesome.  Try and stay in moonkin as much as possible, especially with the new glyph that allows you to heal in form.  Leaving form to heal is only a good idea if you're going to die otherwise or you can line of sight incoming damage (losing the 15% damage reduction is huge)

Eclipse:  This is the most important mechanic for being a lazer chicken and ensuring max damage.  When you first enter arena, your eclipse bar is in "neutral", or right in the center.  If you cast a wrath, it will move towards lunar first.  If you cast a starfire it will move towards solar first.  Generally speaking, wrath and starfire work opposite of each other.  SS will always move you towards whichever direction you're currently going EXCEPT when you first start an arena in neutral - in this instance, if you cast it BEFORE you cast a wrath or starfire it will always move towards solar.  

What if I can't cast you ask???  How will I ever see this amazing eclipse you speak of??  Never fear, I have alternatives for you.  First off, our PvP 2 piece set bonus (bonus for having at least 4 of the 5 main set pieces) is setup so that when you get hit with a critical strike, you have a chance to gain 20 energy heading towards the direction you are currently going - it has an internal cool down, but you can get to eclipse pretty fast if you're being trained.  We also have a great new ability called Astral Communion that allows you to gain energy towards you eclipse while channeling.  But how can I channel while running around for my life you ask?  Fear not, because our new 4 piece allows us to channel it while moving!  You can also use Glyph of Omens if you need more ways of gaining energy, as this will allow you to spam Faerie Fire on your target for energy.  Lots of great tools for getting that big damage.

So why does someone want to get into eclipse?  Solar and lunar eclipse each add damage to some of your spells.  Take a look below for specifics:

Solar Eclipse:  Increases damage to SS, Wrath, Sunfire, Wild Mushrooms, Hurricane

Lunar Eclipse:  Increases damage to SS, Starfire, Moonfire, Starfall, Astral Storm (same function as Hurricane)

So anytime you hit an eclipse, you want to ensure that you have your dot ticking (Moonfire or Sunfire), cast SS on cd, pop Starfall if you're in Lunar, and ideally cast Starfires (lunar) into your target (assuming you aren't tanking two melee's with a lot of interrupts available.  There is much more to the nuances, but we'll get to that shortly - this is just the basics of your "rotation".  It’s important to note that Wrath does garbage damage, so it’s almost never worth casting and risking the lockout – there is almost always something more important you can do with utility.

Solarbeam:  This spell is what makes us super annoying to the other team.  By casting roots and immediately following it up with a Solarbeam on a healer, they are effectively stuck in the beam silenced for 8 seconds till the root ends.  Having the ability to follow it up with a  second roots is key - and if you are playing with a  mage, being able to drop this on top of frozen targets is amazing for catching multiple casters at once.  Sometimes, even without roots it's really great to drop on a healer behind boxes, forcing him to step into the open to heal and opening him up to giant CC chains.  Being on just a one minute cd makes this a really sick spell.  The ultimate pairing is with Vortex, and in RBG’s is actually the most OP cc combo in the game right now IMHO.

What makes this spell really special, is the ability to use it defensively that many people don't fully appreciate.  A frost DK standing in it does almost no damage, a Ret can't CC you or do many of his damaging abilities and well placed beam around boxes (like Dalaran Arena) can allow you to really mess up burst from casters as well.  Don't be afraid to drop it on a melee thats on you and stand in it if you need to relieve some pressure.

Owlkin Frenzy:  This passive is really nice for when you're getting focused to allow you to do more damage.  A straight 10% damage increase is nothing to laugh at, and the immunity to pushback is huge if the other team doesn't have an interrupt available - you can nuke away!

Lunar Shower:  This talent really gives us the ability to keep doing damage while moving or getting trained and not go OOM.  By spamming moonfire or sunfire on a target, you build up three stacks to do more damage and the spell costs very little.  It's not the best damage you can do, but helps a lot when you are forced to kite or tank melee.

Wild Mushroom: Detonate:  This allows you to blow up the mushrooms you place doing AOE damage.  But what is more important is the 50% slow that is put on the ground for 20 secs. for 8 yards around each mushroom.  Great for kiting, slowing an escaping enemy or peeling for your team.

Macros

1. Focus Macros:
GOOOOOOTTA have those focus macros.  So important to be able to keep nuking your kill target while continually spamming clone/roots/hibernate etc. on your focus target.  Typical macro for me looks like this:

#showtooltip Cyclone
/cast [nomod] Cyclone
/cast [mod:shift, target=focus] Cyclone

You can change 'shift' to whatever mod you prefer (for me, shift is the most used by far) and there you go!  You can now easily just hold shift and hit that same button without switching targets.  Make macros like this for the following spells: Solarbeam, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire (rogues!!), Cyclone, Bash (if specced), Wild Charge (if specced - great to go bear and charge interrupt someone/stun) and Hibernate

2. Rejuv
I like to setup macros to make it easy to keep rejuv on my teammates.  This can done pretty easily in a similar fashion as above, but requires some maintenance if you want good control.  I'll show too methods:

#showtooltip Rejuvenation
/cast [nomod, target=billythemage] Rejuvenation
/cast [mod:shift, target=sammytheshaman] Rejuvenation
/cast [mod:ctrl] Rejuvenation

This will always cast rejuv on Billy when you have no mod, always on sammy when you hold shift, and on either your target if friendly or yourself if enemy targeted (and you have the option turned on in your settings to heal yourself when targeting an enemy).  The positive side is you always know who you are healing.  The negative is the upkeep if you switch partners a lot.

#showtooltip Rejuvenation
/cast [nomod, target=party1] Rejuvenation
/cast [mod:shift, target=party2] Rejuvenation
/cast [mod:ctrl] Rejuvenation

This version will always cast on party1 with no mod and party2 with shift held down.  The downside of this method is that each time you enter arena party1 and party2 can be switched around.  Far less upkeep though, totally up to you.

3. Form macros
Another important set of macros are power shift macros.  

#showtooltip Moonkin Form
/cast !Moonkin Form(Shape shift)

Sub in any form there and you now have a macro that when you hit it takes you back into the same form without hitting caster form.  This will help you break roots without leaving you vulnerable without your feathers/fur/etc.  Make one for bear form, cat form, travel form, and even swim form if you like.

or

(from Snuggli)
#showtooltip
#show
/cast [nostance] !Moonkin Form; [stance:1] !Bear Form; [stance:4] !Travel form; [stance:3] !Cat Form; [stance:5] !Moonkin Form; [stance:6] !Moonkin Form;
This gives you the one button power shift macro, where you can have a single button that power shifts, and other keys for each form.  Either way can work, depending on your preference.

4. Trinket macros
This may sound silly, but how many times have you gotten an upgrade, forgot to put it on your bar, went to break out of cc/activate your burst trinket and nothing happened?  You can avoid that by having a macro that always uses whatever's in that slot, rather than the specific trinket on your bars.

#showtooltip
/use 14

14 is your bottom slot and 13 is the top.  Easy to make one for each.

5. Cooldowns

I'm a big fan of having a single button to press for that burst opportunity - it saves keystrokes which could be valuable when you only have a small window to burst.

#showtooltip Berserking (if you're a troll druid)
/cast berserking
/use 13
/cast Lifeblood
/use 10
/cast Incarnation

In this macro, it casts berserking if you are a troll, uses your pvp burst trinket if it's in the top slot, casts lifeblood if you are an herbalist, and uses your engi glove if you're an engineer.  Adjust to fit your race/profs.  Since trinket triggers the internal cd on the engineering gloves, you can use this once for all of your big cds, and then hit it again later to just trigger the gloves.

6. Focus Set
This macro lets you mouseover a player and set them as focus.  Great for bgs, rbgs, wpvp, or if you don't have gladius in arena

/focus [target=mouseover]

7. Wild Mushroom Leap

(from Snuggli)
#showtooltip Wild Charge
/target Wild Mushroom
/stopmacro [noexists]
/target=target
/stopmacro [noexists, harm]
/cancelform
/cast Wild Charge
/targetlasttarget
This will allow you to leap up on a z-axis to a mushroom you've placed, if you are running Wild Charge as a talent.  Very clutch when you're getting trained.


Those would be my core Moonkin macros.  I'm glad to add more if people have good ones - feel free to email me/hit me on twitter! Until then, keep those lazers hot and spicy!

Comp Playstyles

Comp Playstyles #1 – LSD 2.0

This is the first, in what I hope to be a lengthy series of posts on Moonkin playstyle in different 3v3 comps.  I thought we’d kick it off with one of the more straight forward (and super fun) comps that is available to us: LSD 2.0

Teammates: Resto Shaman, Affliction Warlock

Ideal Talents: Displacer, NS, varies, Incarn or SOTF, Vortex, Vigil

Symbiosis: Lock will be ideal (he gets rejuv, you get a defensive CD that makes you take less damage and become immune to interrupts for a short time.  Shaman is also viable (he gets prowl, you get purge) but less important, since the lock can’t stealth so it won’t be a triple stealth opener.

CC Diminishing Returns: Shadowfury & Bash & Capacitor Totem, Earthbind & Entangling Roots

Playstyle: This comp is your traditional dot cleave.  The goal is fairly simple: dot EVERYTHING.  I literally mean everything, including pets.  The real strength of LSD 2.0 resides in getting everything low gradually, so that the healer just cannot keep up.  It’s not uncommon to be playing this comp and to see the entire team die within 10-15 seconds of each other, rather than just killing one player while the others are close to topped off as can usually be the case.  Popping Celestial Alignment and trinket early can start to really accelerate the pressure, especially if you toss a vortex/beam onto the healer just before popping it so that the dots can really tick away before they are able to start healing.  Ideally your Lock will use Dark Soul at the same time, and you’ll find the pressure to be overwhelming.  Incarnation and Nature’s Vigil can be stacked and used almost anytime you’re free to put out more pressure, since you’ll still just be dotting, surging, and casting starfall most of the time.

It’s pretty unnecessary to ever cast in this comp, outside of a rare cyclone or using Starsurge (if for some reason it comes off cooldown without proccing), so it’s pretty new player friendly with very little fear of a lockout.  I recommend avoiding cloning unless necessary, as it slows your damage down – obviously you need to evaluate the situation and use it when appropriate (CC’ing a warrior with all his CDs popped should take priority over dotting him).  Very little DR on CC here, as well, and almost none of it breaks on damage if you avoid taking Disorienting Roar.

Tips:
  • Avoid the “finish him he’s low!” mentality when playing LSD 2.0.  It’s really easy to get caught up with a player that is sub 10% and wanting to finish him off.  That’s really not the goal of this comp – if you just keep on dotting and switching, something will eventually die (the damage is literally unhealable).  Spamming an instant into somebody to get a kill should be used sparingly, and you should rather turn to other targets to make sure they remain dotted during that time so that everything is still ticking down.

  • Shaman can actually do some decent DPS.  When targets are getting low, if your healer can cast without fear of a lockout, and assuming your team isn’t super low, make sure they are tossing out a flame shock/lava burst combo every now and again. Lava burst always crits.  They should also be using their fire elemental and storm last totem for that little bit of extra damage for the team.

  • Use your pillars.  It’s pretty easy to step out, dot something, and step back in this comp.  Don’t be afraid to kite around pillars, dot and hide, and really play defensively when necessary.  Your dots will still be doing damage, even if you are LOS.
Happy hunting, feathered friends.

Com Playstyles #2 – Dancing With the Stars

This is probably my favorite Moonkin comp to play, and should be VERY powerful this season (s13).

Teammates: Sub Rogue, Disc Priest (although other healers can work)

Ideal Talents: Wild Charge, NS, varies, Force of Nature or Incarn, Roar (defensive) or Vortex (offensive), HOTW (defensive) or Vigil (offensive)

Symbiosis: Both are excellent choices.  Rogue gives you Cloak of Shadows if you’re playing against a caster cleave and he gets a damage reduction CD in Growl (his version is different than the Druid version).  Priest will be the go to against melee cleaves, as he gets CYCLONE!! and you get Mass Dispel (on a 1 min cooldown).  Both are very gamebreaking – if they train the rogue, you have MD to get your healer out of cc; if they train you, your healer can clone without fear of diminishing returns; if they train the healer, you can get the healer out of a clutch HoJ or Strangulate or get the Rogue out of cc so he can peel the healer.

CC Diminishing Returns: Disorienting Roar & Blind & Fear, Pounce & Cheap Shot, Kidney and Bash

Playstyle: This comp is fantastic because it can burst every minute, with the lineup of Solarbeam and Shadowdance (and Force of Nature if you spec it).  In the offensive version of the comp (meaning you’re not playing against something that has very front loaded burst like TSG, triple DPS, or KFC) you’ll be picking up Nature’s Vigil and Ursol’s Vortex as well.  Every one of these has a one minute cooldown, allowing you to swap onto any low target with stupid burst every single minute.  The defensive version of the comp (for when you need to turtle out some huge front-loaded burst) will want to pick up HOTW for some major off-healing and Disorienting Roar or Vortex for another awesome peel cc during the enemy team’s cooldowns.  

The opener for this comp will always come out of group stealth from the rogue.  Ideally he’ll get a sap on one of the dps, while you open with a root>solarbeam (or Vortex>solarbeam if you’re specced for it) on the enemy healer.  This gives you the opportunity for your first Shadowdance (and all 1  minute cds – Starfall, Force of Nature and Nature’s Vigil) on one DPS, while the enemy healer starts falling way behind.  Coming out of the sap/solarbeam combo, if you can get a cyclone/blind off on the same too people who were already cc’d, you have a very good chance of scoring a kill.  

If you don’t score a kill – DONT PANIC!!  This comp is not at all about scoring an early kill.  If the enemy is able to stop your kill attempt, then start spreading dots/starfall.  This is a good opportunity to pop Celestial Alignment and dot everything (including pets).  Your rogue can then swap to whatever target makes the most sense for him (based on positioning, relative health, stun DR) and work on setting up the kill for the next Shadowdance/Solarbeam combo.  Make sure you are in Eclipse before your Rogue uses Shadowdance, and you should be scoring kills in no time!

Tips:
  • Supposedly Starfall doesn’t hit cc’d targets in 5.2 – until we see that this is true 100% of the time, the biggest thing to watch out for in this comp is Starfall breaking Sap and Blind.  Make sure you are using it wisely (and communicating it well) and that your Rogue is watching for Starfall when he goes for a Blind or Sap (it’s something he’ll become used to as you play the comp more.

  • Healer kills are VERY viable for this comp.  If you are good about dotting everything during the time between Shadowdance/Solar beam cds, there is a good chance the healer will be sitting at 60-70% when you swap to him.  A well timed Garrote>Kidney>Solarbeam/Vortex>Paralytic Stun is horrific for a healer to deal with.  If your Rogue isn’t peeled properly through this, the healer could be in for over 20 seconds straight of CC (which he will never survive)!!

  • Priest having cyclone can be amazing – but watch out for DR.  If you are getting trained all game, this is a great time for your Symbiosis to be on the Priest so he can keep cloning while you are unable to.  Just make sure you are communicating your clones, the same way a Lock/Spriest have to do with fears when playing Shadowplay.

  • Don’t forget your offheals.  Even just tossing out occasional Rejuv’s (especially when you can’t cast because you’re being trained) can be huge for your healer.
I hope you have as much fun playing this comp as I do.  When you get the hang of it, there is an incredible amount of everything – CC, burst, offhealing, utility, and mobility.  Pew, pew!

Comp Playstyles #3 – Spicy Chicken Cleave

A very fun comp that can do some insane burst when played correctly.

Teammates:  Fire Mage, Resto Shaman/Disc Priest

Ideal Talents: WC or Displacer, NS or Cenarion Ward, varies, Incarnation, Vortex, Vigil

Symbiosis:  Your healer will be your ideal partner in this comp.  The shaman will gain Prowl, allowing a triple stealth opener, while you gain purge (ensuring that everyone on the team can dispel enemy buffs).  The priest will gain Cyclone (which is fantastic for ensuring targets are getting cc’d when you are getting trained and can’t cast) and you will gain Mass Dispel on a one-minute cooldown (which can literally be the difference between winning and losing a game when you can get your healer out of cc).

CC Diminishing Returns: Dragon’s Breath & Disorienting Roar; Deep Freeze & Bash & Capacitor Totem & Ring of Frost; Frost Nova & Entangling Roots & Mass Entanglement & Earthgrasp Totem & Frozen Power;

Playstyle:  This comp is a hybrid between the previous two (Dancing With the Stars and LSD 2.0), in that you will be dotting everything for maximum spread damage again, but you have that nice burst window every time Deep Freeze is available for your mage.  The opener against this team can be pretty nasty if the opposing team stacks up, as you have a large number of AoE cc’s available.

Typical opener for this comp will be to start dotting the entire team, while letting the mage control melee with novas and DB (DB doesn’t break on dot damage!).  Since you will be avoiding speccing Disorienting Roar for this comp, the mage should be able to DB on cd without having to worry about diminishing returns.  Use Celestial Alignment when you know you’ll have some free time to get dots on everything rolling (including pets) to increase pressure on the opposing team.

Kill attempts will revolve around your Mage.  When going for a kill, let the mage deep the target (with the proper mage setup for procs), while you drop a vortex/beam on the healer (if attacking a dps).  Fire Mages do nasty damage in a deep if setup right (sometimes 4 instant Pyroblast in a row!), so a properly timed vortex/beam, especially if you can typhoon them back inside, will easily amount to plenty of defensive cooldowns being popped by your enemy – or likely a kill!

Tips:
  • Play defensive – you’re entire team is pretty easy to kill for a decent melee cleave if you get overly aggressive for your kills.  Don’t get baited into bad spots just to get a kill, knowing that your mage will have Deep available again in just a few seconds.

  • Any target is viable – going on a healer is pretty nasty if you can keep the dps from crushing you while you’re doing it (deep, blanket counterspell, vortex/beam/ring of frost), because of the insane amount of time you can keep the healer from casting while you blow them up.  DPS are also good, though, as you can shut down a healer pretty well during your kill attempts with your massive amount of cc.

  • Utilize Mass Dispel – despite being on a one minute cooldown (and costing a load of mana), this can be game changing.  When the KFC gets a trap off on your priest and are trying to go mongo on your mage, using MD to free your healer will ensure they have their trinket available later on.

  • Keep dots rolling – although this comp has awesome burst potential during Deep Freeze, a lot of what makes it so good is the wear and tear that Moonkin dots combined with Living Bomb and Combustion from the Mage can do to the opposing healer who is trying to keep up.  Avoid overwriting stronger dots when you can, but just make sure everything is dotted constantly (including pets!).

  • Fight pressure with pressure – a lot of time there is the tendency to try and offheal through enemy burst, when really you should be countering them by popping your own cooldowns to push them back.  Don’t be afraid to utilize massive cc and pure damage when the enemy goes mongo.
All in all, it’s a very fun comp to play.  Fire does get trained pretty hard right now, with the massive number of melee cleave teams out there, but there is loads of potential.

Change Log:  Updated for 5.3, 6/7/13

Contributors:  Udderly, Snuggli, HackAttack3


#3895832 Help salvage s13: We need Hunters fixed!

Posted brosearch on 06 June 2013 - 06:09 PM

Please guys post on official forums too. I would love to que again, but Hunters alone ruin arena.
http://us.battle.net...opic/9245384869

I want to start by clarifying that I have no personal animosity against Hunters. I am not the typical wow pvper who wants to see xxx class nerfed into oblivion because I have a long lasting hatred toward said class. Having said that, arena is totally unplayable currently because of Hunters. Yes it is unplayable; this is not an exaggeration. There is absolutely no chance of enjoying arena while hunters exist in their current state.

I am not making this post to whine about WOW or MOP. I prefer not to do such things. I am not going to make a long post about all the changes this game needs in order to have amazing pvp. I can deal with many absurd things happening in this game. I can deal with elemental shamans getting proc after proc and doing a ton of damage without casting. I can deal with mages not casting and doing crazy damage in a deep freeze. I can deal with feral druids hitting really really hard. I can deal with death knights having more trinkets than the pvp vendor. I can deal with a destro locks chaos bolt during their cds. I can deal with shamans having a 36 sec tremor totem. I can deal with psyfiend being extremely annoying. Clearly, there are many things in this game which present unique challenges. However all of the things listed above are avoidable and/or defendable. One of the key attributes among good players is their ability to counter imbalances such as these through the use of CDs, positioning, and coordination with their team.

That is the key point where Hunters step into a realm of God status. A Hunters arsenal is such that other players are entirely subject to the will of the Hunter. If a Hunter wants, he gets. If I beat a hunter team, it’s because he failed to beat me because of his mistakes. I didn’t beat him; he beat himself. I am being 100% serious here. With all that a Hunter can do, a loss on his part is his fault. Moreover, he could have done something different and there would be no way in which I could have beaten him. That is unacceptable. This is precisely why arena currently can’t be played seriously, and more importantly it can’t be enjoyed.

I won’t list all Hunter abilities. Rather, ill list the abilities or reasons why a Hunter is so governing.

1. The damage a Hunter does is far beyond high. This is the biggest problem with Hunters. The damage output they are capable of doing is not acceptable. It’s not healable in any way. You can’t stop it, and you can’t LOS it. Hilariously, the Hunter isn’t even the one doing most of the damage. His pets are the ones doing a majority of the damage, and those pets move like superman so you aren’t getting away. I am not sure why Hunter damage went up in 5.3, but it’s out of control right now in a big way.

2. Their control is instant, there is a lot of it, it’s ranged and it’s unavoidable. You can’t stop /cast [@focus] scatter trap, or /cast [@focus] pet stun thing, or /cast [@focus] silencing shot, and they can full trap off scatter or the pet stun OR the disengage 8 sec AOE physical root. Any hunter can land a full trap if he uses his disengage root, pet stuns a healer’s partner so they can’t eat the trap, or simply coordinates with his team. However he doesn’t even need a full trap for kills BECAUSE his damage is so damn high/instant/unavoidable. To make matters worse, they can Readiness and have access to scatter, trap and silencing shot yet again lol. In past expansions, if you ate traps, you could survive hunter cleaves. It’s truly sad but this is no longer the case. This just might be from a warlock perspective, but if I try to stand on my healer for the 3 secs scatter is on him, I’ll die before the trap even activates. Literally I have to gateway the instant they connect on me or I am dead. I can’t tell you how many times I have used my pet sac, unending resolve, fel regen and healthstone all right away, only to die through all of it as if I pulled a raid boss who one shot me.

3. The hunter isn’t controllable in any reliable way for the first few mins of a game. BM provides a trinket effect, they obviously have the regular pvp trinket, and they can readiness BM too. These are 3 ways in which the Hunter is able to free himself of any CC which enables him to assert his control and damage as he sees fit. If he wanted, he has other ways to avoid additional control attempts too, but I’ll just leave those out for now. Back to the point, you can’t stun a Hunters opener, or fear or blind it. He is going to be free period. This is a massive problem because he also has the other 2 arrows in his quiver as I mentioned above (his unreal damage and his puppet master like control). If the hunter wasn’t able to do insane damage to people, then he being free would be far less of a concern. If a hunter wasn’t able to control a healer so easily, reliably, and in a way that can’t be avoided, then him being free would also not be such an issue. However he does have all this damage and all this control, so giving him the ability to remain free to assert these things makes matters infinitely direr.

These 3 main issues combined are what make Hunters the problem they are now. 5.3 brought some changes that enable me to play my warlock in a way that is somewhat enjoyable now (I can actually do some meaningful damage). I would love to que 3v3 again, but every time I do there is an onslaught of Hunter teams who basically win by default. About 80% of all 3v3 teams have a hunter, so there is no escaping them. Additionally, it’s not just warlocks who get absolutely destroyed by these Hunter teams. When you are a God among mortals, you take everyone to pound town. NO class can really enjoy arena as long as Hunters stay like they are. I sincerely hope even Hunters themselves realize it can’t be fun like this. Lebron James wouldn’t go play basketball at the local gym because it’s not fun to play versus those who stand no chance at winning.

I challenge anyone to go watch some streams of 3v3. You will see how prevalent and utterly dominant Hunters are. Even vs. top players, they impose their will with little to no effort. I know blizzard isn’t a fan of pvp only fixes but I don’t see any other way in this situation.

Their damage needs to go way down, the BM trinket effect removed altogether, and their control must be reduced (maybe make a target immune to scatter if he has been silencing shot and vice versa). No class should have it all. If nothing is done about Hunters, this season is completely lost. There is no debating that fact.

Thanks for your support and consideration.
Brodizzlex


#3895607 Rerolling Fox.

Posted Bigmoran on 06 June 2013 - 12:34 AM

paying 50g per fox tail

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#3895588 Rerolling Fox.

Posted Rzn on 05 June 2013 - 11:21 PM

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