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Member Since 13 Feb 2009
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#3853965 Expected class representation on Gladiator titles

Posted Dakkrothy on 27 February 2013 - 02:48 AM

Representation can mean a lot but it can also mean jack shit

Lets put it this way.

Priests in season 5 could almost only play RMP to be competitive, and when I say competitive I mean it could beat anything and get rank 1 anywhere. Why was that?

1. Did priests get absolutely carried by rogue & mage?
2. If well played, was synergy enough to make the comp viable?

It was obviously 2, if it wasnt, you'd take any of the other healers that were stronger in general.

Personally I think it's more important that you focus on a classes strength in comps which they're usually viable in rather than the class itself; WE DON'T WANT DUELS TO BE BALANCED. If you look at the wrong things you could very easily end up overbuffing them or overnerfing them (depending on how powerful/weak they are).

Another thing to look at would probably be what x class is struggling against if its a weak class. Lets take an example from the current season.

Rogues, very weak because of warrior strengths. Does it mean you have to nerf warriors, buff rogues or both? It depends how big the leap is. Once you've nerfed warriors in this case you have to think what rogues would be like WITH the warriors nerfs before you buff rogues. If they remain weak you should start buffing them slightly til you find a decent balance point.

It's extremely hard balancing wow with the amount of abilities, classes & constant changes there is in the game. It's impossible to say the least. I just wish blizzard actually hired really high rated, unbiased, PvPers. Mainly because it HAS to be balanced around the very top ratings if you want a game as balanced as it could be. This would probably end up pissing a lot of casual players, but then again it's just a l2p issue in this case, which would be way more acceptable in the general scene of WoW I think.

I recommend you to read the last article posted in http://www.veevsvaul...ll-cap-dilemma/ to know what I am talking about. but if you CBA I'll just do a TL;DR - A class extreamly strong around 1900 ratings doesnt mean it's nearly as strong at 2.5k ratings


#3853848 Expected class representation on Gladiator titles

Posted Braindance on 26 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

Somewhat outdated but general guidelines still apply
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#3853813 Expected class representation on Gladiator titles

Posted Braindance on 26 February 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostJinngofagswag, on 26 February 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

trying to defend warriors??
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#3853873 dk video

Posted flannelsoff on 26 February 2013 - 11:16 PM

A lot of people ask me if I stream and stuff so I recorded some games versus some pretty good teams on ptr.  Mainly shadowcleave games but some other cool comps too. Give feedback if you want, not really meant to have good editing
songs in youtube descrip

#3853797 5.2 comps - dk

Posted Jinngofagswag on 26 February 2013 - 06:22 PM

View PostDamaskinos, on 26 February 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Anybody with a hot wire to the Developers? They reduced Icy Talons from 30% to 15% instead 25% -.-

Posted on the PTR forums, but I dont trust those guys!
who cares about frost anyway ?

#3852494 The worst team

Posted Koshimo on 22 February 2013 - 11:10 PM

spriest/x/x > kfc

#3852579 Recklessness cooldown lowered to 3 min

Posted hoodrych on 23 February 2013 - 04:23 AM

if you don't slam you ain't goin..... ah fuck it

#3850863 PTR 5.2 last needed changes (major issues)

Posted Tist on 18 February 2013 - 08:58 PM

mind numbing needs to be fixed


#3850833 PTR 5.2 last needed changes (major issues)

Posted Braindance on 18 February 2013 - 08:02 PM

View Postvenruki, on 18 February 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

yeah mages are pretty crazy right now, I do agree. I do find it strange that nobody every complains about shadow priests, they've got nothing but straight damage buffs this patch.
Of course you are more qualified than me to critique but those are my thoughts on every class on the PTR:

Death knights: Very strong damage and insanely good versus priests - they need a slight damage nerf

Druid: Druids are somewhat balanced (feral/resto). On the other hand boomkins are disgusting - they take way too much damage but with procs they can gib you in a millisecond. 150k starsurges on 67% resilience is the norm

Hunters: They do too much damage - BM is an abomination of a spec, and while super strong, any decent team that will swap and gib the pets removes most of their strengths

Mages: Most op class on the ptr - now frostbolt does tons of damage too. Fire is disgusting (Affx will still defend it). Way, way too many instants

Monks: Imo the most well designed class out there - mistweaver needs a nerf in dematerialize and windwalker could use a 5% damage nerf and a slight buff in survivability. Ring of peace could stay as is BUT with a reduced radii (about 30%)

Paladins: Rets are quite nice with the new buffs and certainly in better shape than on live - holy is still a very strong healing spec, on par with resto shamans and druids

Priest: Shadow could use a slight damage nerf and it would be perfectly fine - disc shield buff was uncalled for and it dragged them from being on par with the other healers to being the strongest one (although heavily countered by dks)

Rogues: Too much utility and strong damage and defense vs casters, but they flop over and die vs any melee from dks to warriors. Some passive melee damage reduction coupled with a slight nerf to feint (~5%) could put them in a decent place.

Shamans: Resto is cool and on par with the other healers - enh is definitely viable - ele is a paradigm for all caster classes right now since they are the only dps caster to actually cast (and does gr8 damage while casting)

Warlocks: The affliction playstyle is simply an aberration - soul burn swap and dot the whole team is unbelievable cheese-y and has no place in arena. Other than this gimmicky ability they are average and they could use a hefty dot damage buff under the condition that they have to cast to get dots up - while at it remove soul shard requirement from haunt which is ridonculous

Warriors: Way way way too high damage - if you manage to master the new rotation (which is not easy) the damage output is almost unhealable. Utility is somewhat limited now with the shockwave nerf. It feels like the start of s6 (with 12 sec charge and intercept) with even more damage. Only problem is that we die almost as fast as rogues which is could because now you have to watch out for your positioning.

#3848813 Preparing for PvP in 5.2

Posted fant0m8 on 14 February 2013 - 04:26 AM

Gear grinds/tiers in PVP are a bad idea anyway, it's a good thing that they are removing rating requirements.

You should be higher rated because you have more skill, not because you have better gear.

#3850104 Another team bites the dust

Posted Bigmoran on 16 February 2013 - 10:12 PM

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#3849037 Any top warriors streaming?

Posted ardnut on 14 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

Tankz gave me a lot of help and advice back then.  Also wrote an excellent warrior/pala guide.  Probably still find it somewhere on these forums.

When you've watched the boss play, reckful just doesn't cut it... I'm sorry.

#3849040 Balance is not the biggest problem, systems are

Posted Thaya on 14 February 2013 - 04:33 PM

Foreword: please read the entire post before commenting. I was a little bit too quick to post it, and as a result of adding ideas and thoughts to it, it's now a little hard to follow: I start with an example before explaining the main problem (inductive reasoning). All the important stuff is at the end.

Ever since WotLK ended, I've had the opinion that the problem of WoW PvP is not balance, but the systems. In fact, the things I'm going to talk about have always been in place, I just didn't notice them because I enjoyed random battlegrounds, skirmishes and 2v2 up until Cataclysm. I don't want to make this a nostalgia thread or a rant on bringing back skirmishes, but a few words have to be said about skirmish: reintroducing skirmish arenas, with the way the game has evolved since they were last active, would be a stupid decision. Back in WotLK individual skill was a much bigger factor than it is today - this is both due to developer decisions and players getting much better in these 4 years - arena is all about team synergy now, individual skill doesn't even fascinate anybody anymore. A single player just won't be able to make enough of a difference on his own to make it fun in the slightest, perhaps with the exception of one or two specs, and I'm not even going to talk about the obvious problem of team compositions and how predictable it will be. If they are reintroduced in the original implementation, people will play them for a short while, and then it will just be another dead area of the game.

Let's forget about the other PvP modes for now and focus only on arenas - it is a little game of its own, there's nothing that feels or plays quite like it, and it has a community of its own.

A huge problem with the arena system is that there is only one, ranked, mode. I believe it applies to everybody, or at least the vast majority, that you're not always in the mood to play serious, to play to win. And I believe every arena player has been in a situation where you wanted to try playing with some other people or your friends - just for fun - but couldn't due to being locked to their "serious" team. The real reason people want skirmishes back is because arena players simply don't have anything to do when they're not in the mood to play serious, or when their team mates are offline, or whatever other reasons not to play ranked. Ever noticed how many people buy Arena Pass just to be able to mess around without putting their live ratings in danger? it's always a very short sparkle of interest, because AP isn't really that good of a solution, but it's a good example of what people want.

And so, why not do the obvious thing, the thing that exists in several other super popular games?

Unranked mode.

Give it a a matchmaking system to match equal teams, but no ladder and no statistic tracking at all. No need for teams too, just let any party of 3 queue for it, even cross realm parties. Characters will still have MMR attached to them, and the average of that MMR will be used for the party - imagine it as if a temporary arena team is created. It just won't matter, it won't give rewards, it won't be displayed on the UI, the matchmaking system will extend its search range a lot quicker (aim for 2-3 min queues tops, even at the cost of equal matchups), and there will be no competition based around it. An organized skirmish, that's exactly what it should feel like.

Firstly, this will be a less serious environment to play in for the veterans, a polygon to run new teams or just play for fun, something you can queue any time of the day carelessly, something you don't have to commit to. And secondly, this would be a wonderful thing for new PvP players. It's just like the real thing, but without the pain of losing; I know people who tried arena, sucked due to being new, and never touched it again because they just kept losing. WoW arena has a very steep learning curve at least due to the amount of information you need to memorize and get used to before you really feel like you understand what's going on, being put straight into a competitive environment makes it that much harder; on top of that, gear is a much bigger factor than it's ever been, but let's discuss this another time.

Now, since I've touched the subject of new players... Let's go back to the real world where PvP isn't just arenas. The general consensus on AJ is "who cares about random BGs", but it is so much more important for the game overall than people think. Random BGs is the first place people unfamiliar with PvP go to, not only because of gear, but because it's the only type of PvP you can queue solo for. This is where they get their opinions about the PvP side of the game, and do you honestly think it's a good one if every second active poster here is botting, and some of you even actively support it? If I continue this subject I'll have to repeat myself a lot from an earlier thread about honor and battlegrounds, but key points were: the honor grind must be shortened A LOT, it's totally wrong that getting starter PvP gear takes so long; winning/losing shouldn't be as important as it is (random is random); and botting should be at least risky and more complex to use than it is today.

Another problem with the systems is how weird the matchmaking system is. Why do you sometimes not get a high rated team from your realm that you KNOW is queueing, and instead get 10 min queues into a team 700 rating below you? Why do you sometimes experience the opposite and get the same team 3-5 times in a row when you KNOW there's other teams queueing, and you even have to sit and wait for them to finish their game when they bump into somebody else? Why do battlegroups still exist even though it's been many years since it's possible for cross battlegroup matchups? all battlegroups do now is slow down queues for everybody and give out free rank 1 titles from 5v5 shares. Why does it take years to fix an exploit in the RBG MMR system, an exploit that people made thousands of euro on, and even humiliated Blizzard by making 5000 rated level 1 characters for the purpose of advertising? Why do RBGs have a much, much better effort:reward ratio in a game that's based entirely around character/gear progression? RBG is easier for the individual player and gives everything that arena does plus more (higher cap), that's wrong on so many levels. Imagine how all of this mess looks like to new players.

It is the oldest and ugliest system in the game by far, it's had so many things built on top of it and patched that it's just an archaic abomination.

There's so many great ideas out there. It doesn't even have to be unranked mode - that's just my take on it and an idea I haven't seen discussed before. Think about weekly challenges/tournaments with rewards - regular 100k gold tournaments would be intense. Introduce observing, at least in ghost mode like on a certain private server, but preferably more like the 5.2 Brawl (can keep it tournament-only). Introduce a best-of-3 mode for it, and allow it to be used in wargames.

Think about getting rid of end of season rewards completely. End of season rewards only promote cheating and boosting by now, and their value as an achievement of skill diminished to the point they're almost irrelevant. You could replace them with the aforementioned tournaments, or do other things like temporary per-season achievements that turn into FoS (f.ex. a new Arena Master per season, Flawless Victor, 2.2/2.4/2.7 per season). You know how fun it is for new players to get a RBG achievement every 100 rating they advance? Imagine if Arena had something similar, and you got Gladiator at say 2.5k, Duelist at 2.2, etc. And the seasons are really short so it doesn't get stale - you don't NEED TO introduce a new title and set of gear every single season.

Think about reintroducing 2v2 in some shape or form (f.ex. with a healing debuff, because right now healer/dps vs healer/dps is impossible), with rewards or achievements to it, especially something for the newer and less experienced players - 2v2 is actually one of the greatest and easiest ways to learn other classes as well as a great way to pass time when bored, it solves nearly every problem I mentioned here.

The way PvP works right now doesn't allow new players to enjoy the game. This is my entire point with this post. The biggest and most important reason that arena activity is dying is that old players are quitting, but no new players are picking up WoW PvP because it sucks to play with randoms and tank down to 1k rating on your first session. There is no "entry level" in WoW PvP, you're thrown straight into ranked 3v3 where you get crushed by people fully geared and most likely with years of experience because WoW PvP hasn't really attracted players for years. THIS is what needs fixing, and it's much more important than balance.

I'm not saying that balance is irrelevant, but no matter how good and balanced the game will be, it will never attract new players if the systems stay the way it is. There's a couple of very good changes in the patch - they fixed gear progression, which was the reason S12 had half the active teams compared to S11 (despite being a fresh expansion), and they also listened to our complaints about rating decay - we haven't even fully acknowledged how huge that change will be. Ultimately I'm making this thread in hopes to motivate them to work the PvP systems more, I imagine it's an easier task than balancing and is more useful at the same time.

Most of these won't even require too much developer work hours, and they won't affect PvE or other parts of the game. You can stick with temporary title rewards or gold and it'll be just fine for us, don't waste your precious developer time on tabards/mounts/pets. We just need a bit of your programmers work hours. Please make PvP fun again.

#3847832 PvP in 5.2 with official forums thread

Posted Djandawg on 12 February 2013 - 12:42 AM

I'd like to see every melee lose a stun.Removal of additional interrupts: fae silence, disruptive shout etc. People need a casting window, especially when trained by 2 melees.

Reducing hunter cc, so that the healer isn't %30 inactive in arena by instants.
NS removed from non healing specs and put to 3 mins cd. Pom not interacting with cc spells except for arcane.

Holy paladins losing repentance. Doesn't make sense to give a the most defensive healer triple non dr-ing cc.

Resto shaman healing reduction, removal of tremor from totemic restoration. Holy paladin instant healing nerf.

Shadowpriest losing life swap and/or moving health percentage for disc priest to %35 so that they aren't in execute range(especially after phantasm nerf)
Also I'd like to see targeting of pets/totems with macro etc removed.

Rogues losing paralytic poison(as mentioned in the post)

The problem with the post in general is, you request change of dynamics, like whole resil system etc, where in reality some classes have already %14 crit with full crit reforge and no abilities/cooldowns to increase crit chance. So if you give say %20 crit reduction, mages will crit say %60 of the time but a lock will do like %0. There's a better way to address this, which is nerfing broken burst modifier spells and so on.
I appreciate the time and effort put in the post, good luck.

#3847806 PvP in 5.2 with official forums thread

Posted AthenĂ¡ on 12 February 2013 - 12:04 AM


There ya go, good night.