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Member Since 15 Aug 2008
Offline Last Active May 20 2015 05:00 PM

#4418157 The State of the Game

Posted Capstone on 03 May 2015 - 04:00 PM

the illusion that the community can make this game better to the extent that it will resemble its former glory is taxing

i saw this post 7 years ago. i might have made it back then

eventually, after being drowned in the futility of optimism that constructive feedback will effect meaningful change, we all crash to the reality that you cannot do anything to make this game better. after your 902nd tweet to holinka or post on your class forums detailing the ways the class could be changed to be more rewarding to everyone playing it and interactive with others, you become desensitized to the obvious neglect of your positive ideas

communities better than ours have tried to improve their decaying interest when it was out of their control and watched it struggle due to neglect. ultimately, we all have the same revelation, which is that the fate of this game is not in our hands

this game was great when blizzard made it great, and lost steam when blizzard neglected it. we had a minimal effect on either. as a matter of fact, if you think the community is shit now, understand that most of the visible community is relatively mature. you should have seen it in vanilla when we were all 16 year old shitheads. it wasn't our attitude that made the game good

it's a great sentiment. i encourage everyone to go post your ideas in that thread. i don't think it'll have a significant long term positive impact, and if you have been playing this game as long as i have, neither do you

#4415841 if u hate the game click this

Posted Mattadoro on 27 April 2015 - 09:51 PM

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#4406726 People getting banned on twitch for streaming vanilla servers.

Posted Speedymart on 04 April 2015 - 04:12 AM

I can't believe you guys are argueing the legality of this.

Blizzard has the rights to shut down anyone streaming any type of IP they own, even vanilla.

However, the fact that they are actually shutting them down is emberassing as fuck and total scumbaggery

People hate WoD and the direction WoW is/has been going for so long, and finally a good MMORPG finally shows up. Only thing is it's the same damn game just ten years ago before all the bullshit they added.

Just make legit vanilla realms already and be done with it, if not then sit there and watch your sub count drop

#4406048 Season Ending Announced: 2 Weeks to go.

Posted Fizion on 01 April 2015 - 01:17 PM

Every time I queue arenas I feel like it's an April Fool's joke.

#4403224 Warriors broken? this game is dogshit

Posted Knaittiz on 21 March 2015 - 02:44 PM

View PostROKMODE, on 21 March 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

those random s8 killings as ele only worked vs bad players who got caught in the middle with little awareness
I mean I remember getting a lot of them as an ele shaman, but vs the great players, it basically never happened. Considering all s8 ele shaman damage was casted and I mean ALL (literally casted more than basically any caster), I would say it was fairly telegraphed with all randomness being attributed to lightning overload, which couldn't even proc lava burst in wrath. Wasn't that post cata ele bs where eles run around spamming instant lava bursts and win the lottery.
do u get an e-mail or something whenever s8 gets mentioned on aj :confused:

#4403214 Warriors broken? this game is dogshit

Posted Lolflay on 21 March 2015 - 02:13 PM

I've posted maybe 2 weeks ago that Fury execute has to be bugged, to which our resident warrior Flavours replied that it's not.

So either it's intended that they're hitting me for 100k+ whenever RNG decides it's time to, or it's bugged as fuck. And to the rest of your claiming "peel", just fuck off and stop being biased basement dwelling cunts.

You all claim Mages are aids as fuck to play against, guess what - their damage and control is at least scripted as fuck, you know WHEN EXACTLY the cooldown on their damage is up and can plan according to it, RNG damage ( f.ex. Ele Shaman s8/s15 ) that randomly ends games is not fine at all.

#4402392 Why the 10% damage changes make such a huge difference in gameplay.

Posted Vadren on 19 March 2015 - 04:25 PM

So after damage being nerfed by 10%, and then with it reverted, I feel like a lot of people are confused about why it makes such a huge difference in match duration and overall feel of arena... Maybe even Blizzard. Some people may expect that 10% less damage means it takes 10% longer to kill an opponent in arena, but this isn't the case.

TLDR: Blizzard doesn't always think enough about what they're doing and sometimes it shows. The 10% damage nerf can increase match duration by a lot, while still not fixing the burst issue of some classes.

Disclaimer: This is napkin math without any real data. It does nothing more than illustrate the kinds of problems umbrella changes in %damage can cause and doesn't prove that the hotfix did cause these sorts of issues (although anecdotal evidence would suggest that it did).

The following is a time to live (TTL) graph and it shows how long it takes a player to die given a specific amount of health, dps and healing. The basic formula is:

TTL = health/(damage per second - healing per second)

The following is a graph with Dps along the x axis and TTL on the y axis in seconds. I've chosen some arbitrary values for health (300k) and hps (10k).

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It's clear from the graph that below 10kdps TTL is infinity, which should be obvious because if you do less damage than healing then you aren't killing anything. The major take away from this is when dps is very close to hps, then very small changes in the dps cause a very large change in TTL.

The following graph shows the same TTL curve with the 10% damage nerf (in green):

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Lets compare some values from the two curves.


TTL(prenerf) = 60s
TTL(nerf) = 85.7s

% increase in TTL = 42.8%

That's a huge difference in the time it takes to kill someone in arena. Of course the values I've chosen are arbitrary and arena is more dynamic, so lets look at some more examples.

If we consider a simplified situation using the most popular ideal match duration (from a poll in another post) of 4min and calculate how the 10% damage nerf affected this ideal.

Here I'm calculating how much more dps than hps to get a 4minute match.

(dps - hps) = 300000/240
(dps - hps) = 1250

Since we don't arena in a vacuum where healers are afk and people die to auto attacks over 4min we need a value for hps before applying the nerf. I'm going to choose the same an arbitrary hps value as before of 10khps. The amount of healing does affect the result.

dps = 10k + 1250
dps = 11.25kdps

TTL(nerf) = 300k/(11.25k*0.9 - 10k)
TTL(nerf) = 2400s, or 40minutes(!)

% increase in TTL = 1000%

Again, this is a very simplified situation using values I've invented instead of real data, but I think it illustrates the point. When dps is close to the hps then very small increases, or decreases, in dps cause huge changes in the feel of the game. However dampening would also prevent this from happening, but dampening shouldn't be relied upon to make the game playable.

In real arena matches dps isn't constant; it fluctuates. The above shows how much the nerf affected a low constant dps (i.e. without cooldowns or procs). We know some comps are scoring kills in 6s or less (god comp, jungle, combat rogues, etc...) Lets see how much the nerf affected these situations.

TTL(prenerf) = 6s
(dps - hps) = 300000/6
(dps - hps) = 50k

And choosing an arbitrary hps value of 10khps...

TTL(nerf) = 300000/(60k*0.9 - 10k)
TTL(nerf) = 6.82s
% increase in TTL = 13.6%

In this specific invented situation the 10% damage nerf only gave a fraction of a second of extra time to try and survive, which is less than a global.

The takeaway from this is that the nerf greatly affected situations that were already fine (constant damage pressure), and barely affected the situations that were out of control (burst during cooldowns for specific classes).

The safest way to blanket nerf burst is to increase health. Lets look at a 15% health increase (tldr it's going to increase the time for both situations by 15%)

TTL(burst) = 6s
TTL(burst, with extra hp) = (300k * 1.15) / (50k)
TTL(burst, with extra hp) = 6.9s

% increase in TTL = 15%

TTL(constant dps) = 240s
TTL(constant, with extra hp) = (300k * 1.15) / (1250)
TTL(constant, with extra hp) = 276s

% increase in TTL = 15%

However this causes an issue where % based heals are improved.

So what's the solution? Now that the 10% nerf has been reverted the game isn't really better, but a different kind of bad.

I have some suggestions:

1) Reduce the amount of guaranteed healing (instant heals, dps self healing, and abhorrent talents like ysera's gift and spirit bond)

2) Remove or change % health healing (warlock heals, conversion, and aforementioend ysera's gift and spirit bond)

These changes lower the amount of guaranteed healing making adjustments to overall dps less chaotic; giving more room for error when making balance changes. In cases where a class needs self healing as a survival tool then it should be counterable (casts), dispellable, or have a major dps tradeoff.

3) Adjust the burst of problem classes individually by nerfing burst cooldowns instead of making umbrella changes that affect every class and spec. Increase damage elsewhere to make the adjusted classes stay viable in PvE (this actually assures that a class still puts out decent pressure in pvp)

4) Finally some consideration should be given to changing dampening to some other mechanic that prevents matches from lasting too long. Much in the way that %dmg nerfs affect classes and comps different, so do %healing reduction during dampening. Also long drawn out matches that go into deep dampening aren't exciting.

Ok then. I actually find thinking about this stuff fun...

#4402404 10% dmg nerf reverted

Posted irubuwrongtime on 19 March 2015 - 04:45 PM

Played some games as TSChi last night after hotfix around 2500mmr and I find hunter comps doing too much damage.  There is def something wrong if my DK is dying in blood presense w/ conversion up without any chain cc on our healer except just rdm 4~6 sec stun from hunter's melee partner.  (Reflect every single trap, intervene wyvern, hunter mislanding trap, etc)

DK tried other talents as well and dk/healer did not overlap defensive cd (death pact/cocoon) and still DK could not play aggressive enuf to land the kill on the hunter.  This was against KFC and PHDK w/ rsham.  Our only chance seemed like going healer as we try to counter their chain cc attempt.

Maybe it's the comp because we didn't have hard time beating hunter comps as treesg before the hotfix and even before 6.1.  We usually won by training the hunter and swapping to healer if he pushed in for cc.

Edit: Oh and godcomp...  Horror -> Bash(HoJ) on kill target, Deep -> Poly on healer, Root/Poly/Clone on offtarget is SO HARD to setup.  Uh huh...

#4402288 10% dmg nerf reverted

Posted Nogahn on 19 March 2015 - 11:36 AM

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edit: that's what playing bm looks like :duckers:

#4402262 10% dmg nerf reverted

Posted Feetylocker on 19 March 2015 - 09:58 AM

View PostRexyyoxxx, on 19 March 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

so this explains why a god comp 100-0 me in a hoj without horrify.. skillz

Atleast its hard for them to set up the cc *cough*

#4402174 10% dmg nerf reverted

Posted Call Me Teranaye on 19 March 2015 - 01:01 AM

View Postzzatbrah, on 18 March 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

ahaha yeah leave crows as is what else would do the remaining 10% of someones hp for them after they barraged
i'm talking from a SV perspective,BM should be completely removed from the game x).

#4402156 10% dmg nerf reverted

Posted mimmick on 19 March 2015 - 12:32 AM

View PostIsumi, on 18 March 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

and now fix bmhunters/combat rogue dmg pls otherwise there's still no reason to enter the arena
And ferals

#4402124 10% dmg nerf reverted

Posted Itsnel on 18 March 2015 - 11:30 PM

game is still shit u idiots lmao

#4402122 10% dmg nerf reverted

Posted zzatbrah on 18 March 2015 - 11:27 PM

View PostCall Me Teranaye, on 18 March 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

ahahaha you're actually complaining about crows (facepalm)

ahaha yeah leave crows as is what else would do the remaining 10% of someones hp for them after they barraged

#4402102 10% dmg nerf reverted

Posted Jim_Jim on 18 March 2015 - 10:52 PM

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