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#4239856 6.0 Dancing in the Shadows

Posted HeyimJack on 22 October 2014 - 05:02 PM

Warlords of Draenor Subtlety Rogue Guide S17

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1.0 - Introduction
1.1 - Why Subtlety?
1.2 - Ability Prune / What's Changed
1.3 - Talents
1.4 - Glyphs
1.5 - Basic openers
1.6 - What's my job outside of burst
1.7 - How to maximize damage outside of Dance
1.8 - Stat priorities
1.9 - Enchants
2.0 - Macros
2.1 - Addons
2.2 - What off pieces should I buy? (To come in PVP season)
2.3 - Rogue Streams
2.4 - Pandemic Effect for Rogue buffs
2.5 - Missed anything / Stuff you want to see

Hey I'm Jack, I'm a 2.8+ Rogue who's been playing since the end of Wotlk. I only started PVP'ing last season mainly because of a poor computer which caused me to fps lag inside arena. I'm basically a MoP hero achieving my first Gladiator titles on 2 of my rogues both in 3s and 5s. I usually camp in Elwynn a lot and often get asked questions by other Rogues so now I'll have somewhere to direct them where they can hopefully clear up any queries they have.

My Rogue Armories
http://eu.battle.net...w/Jack/advanced (Main Rogue)
http://eu.battle.net...otjack/advanced (Alt Rogue)
http://eu.battle.net...Dweebx/advanced (Horde Rogue)

Why Subtlety?
Sub is the one spec for Rogues which has on demand damage which isn't gimmicky with a long cd, we're able to pump out big damage with every Dance/Vanish if we which can be extremely scary if lined with trinket/weapon procs properly.

Combat is probably the strongest rogue spec in the current meta game because of the overall damage output as well as 6-10 second kidney shots & low cd cooldowns.

Assassination's currently an extremely strong spec simply because of the damage output it may or may not be better than Sub at the moment so lets not go any further into that.

Ability Prune / What's Changed

Ability Prune
Shadow Blades
Shadow Walk
Disarm Trap

What's Changed
Burst of Speed now costs 30 Energy (up from 15 Energy)
Nerve Strike now reduces the targets damage dealt by 50% (up from 25%)
Tricks of the trade no longer gives a damage bonus to the target
Energetic Recovery has been built into our Slice and Dice
Find Weakness has been built into the abilities it benefited before
Combo Points are now on ourselves rather than the enemy
Rogues can now backstab people from the sides
Rogues can now ambush people from the front
Expose Armor has been removed
Honor Among Thieves can now trigger from the rogues auto attacks
Subterfuge no longer makes the rogue stealthed for the duration of the effect


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Nightstalker - Not worth using, the only reason Nightstalker is good is for the vanish evis but it's far too gimmicky as at times you can vanish and auto attack out of stealth before you can get your evis off and with vanish being one of our best offensive & defensive cooldowns it isn't worth the risk.

Subterfuge - Subterfuge is currently my talent of choice I feel it's still insanely good even with the stealth nerf. There are times a rogue needs to open with Garrote > Cheapshot and it's not always wise to waste your dance right off the bat when you can force cds without it.

Shadow Focus - After Subterfuge SF is probably your best bet enabling you to get off your opening cheap/garrote pretty much free of cost which then allows you to do a lot more damage with the energy you have left. I feel in WoD this will be the talent of choice to those who run without the Energy glyph.

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Deadly Throw - I feel Dleadly Throw has always been viable however it requires quite the skillcap and combo point planning, I personally wouldn't choose it over the other 2 choices in the tree because of how strong they are.

Nerve Strike - Nerve Strike is a really strong talent for rogues as it makes our stuns even more effective for peeling reducing other enemy players damage by 25% for 6 seconds this can also help towards stopping the enemy team from getting counter pressure. (6.0 The Nerve Strike tooltip is currently wrong it reduces enemy npc's damage by 50% but only 25% on enemy players)

Combat Readiness - Combat Readiness is an insanely good defensive if used correctly, When fully stacked with feint you can take up to 80% reduced damage which is huge. If you're able to predict swaps vs most teams e.g. a rogue team this can often stop the need of your trinket and even a healer cd if used at the appropriate time.

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Cheat Death - Currently in 6.0 Cheat Death is very viable because of how easy it is to get dropped in a stunlock in a matter of seconds but in terms of overall use it still comes in 2nd place to Elusiveness.

Leeching Poison - Not worth using.

Elusiveness - This has probably been the best choice of talent in the tree for entirety of MoP because its on demand damage reduction and it will probably be the best choice of talent in WoD too if it doesn't get changed. If used properly feint can become such a strong defensive tool for rogues if you're able to predict swaps or damage and pre feint it. (If you're not the best at using feint you can check out the feint glyph which adds 2 seconds onto the duration)

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Cloak and Dagger - This talent may as well not be in the game as it's only ever been too good or not good enough Blizzard have never been able to find a balanced compromise for it. Overall in the current state of the game this is probably the worst choice of talent in the this tier.

Shadowstep - Currently in 6.0 I feel Step is the best choice of talent as it brings so much utility to a rogue when used properly. Step's an ability that's able to be used defensivly & offensivly e.g. stepping  partners to get restealths or los damage. With the removal of a lot of slows, roots in 6.0 Step is a lot more viable than previously as it can be used as a chase tool rather than a gap closer.

Burst of Speed - BoS is good however it's not worth using in pretty much any situation over ShadowStep because of the high energy cost/cooldown, also with the ammount of spammable slows currently in the game ShadowStep is really important for connecting quickly.

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Prey on the Weak - Prey is currently the best choice of talent in 6,0 as most of rogues pressure comes from stunlocks having that extra 10% damage from you and your team is pretty huge.

Internal Bleeding - Combat/Assas talent

Dirty Tricks - Not worth using.

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Shuriken Toss - Not worth using.

Marked for Death - MFD is the strongest choice of talent in this tier and it has been for a few seasons, it gives rogues a lot of ondemand damage which is usually paired with Shadow Dance to bring out some big Eviscerates which is where majority of your burst comes from.

Anticipation - This talent comes 2nd place to MFD however it's still a good talent it just requires a slightly different playstyle and more awareness to your Anticipation stacks if used properly it can be similar to having MFD but instead of being instant it's something you need to stack up. (This can be easily tracked, see addon section below)

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Venom Rush - VR is a good choice of talent because it makes the spec feel smooth with the increased energy pool / regen you often find yourself spamming fok for combo points which also spreads your poisons allowing you to get the most out of this talent.

Shadow Reflection - Combat/Assass talent

Death from Above - Since s17 DFA is probably the strongest thoice of talent it even feels op because of how gear's progressing you can find yourself hitting ridiculous numbers if you line it up with trinket/wep procs etc it also makes a really good gap closer / tool to avoid cc.


These are just the main glyphs you should be using but you might find there are rare occasions where other glyphs that might be better good for what you're doing.

Primary Glyphs

Cheap Shot - A strong glyph to use vs melee cleaves and in general teams where you find you won't be using garrote much or where you feel you'll need longer stun locks to kill/put out pressure.

Garrote - You should find yourself using this whenever you feel cheap shot glyph isn't as valuable, e.g. vs wizard teams, rets, shamans.

Blind - This glyph is pretty much mandetory however if you play with Hemo glyph and you feel you're not ever going to be dotting a specific target i.e. the healer you can replace this with either Cheap/Garrote glyph you'll just need to watch out for dots on the target or anything that could break the blind.

Hemo Vein - This glyph makes your Sanguinary Veins trigger from your Hemorrhage dot which means you're able to keep it up much easier but this also changes your playstyle & opener as you don't need to focus on applying rupture or even putting it up.

Glyph of Energy - This is another glyph I feel is mandetory since losing our previous set bonus which gave us 30+ energy allowing us to open more efficiently than without it due to energy starving.

Basic Openers

Rogue openers are different depending on your glyphs aswell as what you're facing.

Basic opener (No hemo glyph)
Premeditation > Slice and Dice > Cheapshot > Rupture > Dance > Ambush > Ambush > Kidney Shot > Marked for Death > Eviscerate > Damage/Garrote/Cheapshot varies on the situation

Basic opener (hemo glyph)
Premeditation > Slice and Dice > Cheapshot > Hemo > Dance > Ambush > Eviscerate > Marked for Death > Kidney Shot > Spam damage > Damage/Garrote/Cheapshot varies on the situation

Why don't you 5cp Rupture in the opener?
I recieved an ingame mail with someone telling me they feel it would be better to 5cp rupture in the opener so something like this:

Premeditation > Slice and Dice > Cheapshot > Ambush > Rupture > Dance > Ambush > Ambush > Kidney Shot > Marked for Death > Eviscerate > Damage/Garrote/Cheapshot varies on the situation

There are a few problems with this, For starters the first ambush isn't going to be effected by SV so it'll be 35% weaker i.e. a wasted ambush for 60 energy unless you dance before which is a waste as you need to use globals to rupture inside of dance, also if you're to try this opener on a basic target dummy you'll find that you can't get the kidney off before youe cheapshot ends with the amount of globals you have, this causes a huuuge problem as you don't want your enemy to have any sort of time where they can peel or use defensives. This is tested on a dummy with full energy, chances are in an actual arena game you won't be starting with full energy because of applying slice or sapping a target.

Here are some videos which will further go into how to open on casters etc, they're from before 6.0 but they should still be valid.


What's my job outside of burst

What you need to be doing depends on the tide of the game you're playing.

If you're in a situation where you nor your partners are in trouble then your best bet is to either spam damage and get ready for your next burst oppertunity.
If you're in a position where one of your partners are being heavily trained and are in need of peels you need to step up with the removal of dismantle rogue have to be on their toes with peeling, we still have a lot of utility we can use to peel such as vanishing to throw out stuns (preferably not on the main target you need to keep him off dr for when you're ready to go) it's often a good idea to call your offstuns so people can follow up cc off them i.e.polymorph knowing he can't be kicked by a stunned target.
With the removal of Mind Numbing and dismantle rogues now heavily need to depend on shiv slows for peels vs melee cleaves, even using shiv on a feral can help forcing them to use a global on shifting instead of spamming damage into you or your partner.
Overall your job outside of burst windows is making sure you survive to see the next burst window, stopping damage & cc on your partners while pumping out your own consistant damage, if you're not doing any of these things you should be going for a restealth with a plan in mind.

How to maximize damage outside of Dance

This is a common question I get asked "How do I damage outside of cds/dance?" etc

Rogues have priorities and if you follow these priorities you'll be fine.

Disclaimer rogue damage outside of cds is bad by default (Well before prepatch at least)

#1 Slice and Dice  - S&D needs to be kept up at all times as it generates 8 energy every 2 seconds it also increases your auto attack damage which is where majority of our damage comes from.

#2 Sanguinary Veins - SV Increases our overall damage to the target affected by 20% after slice this is your biggest priority, however keeping SV up is different depending on if you play with Hemo glyph or not as Hemo veins glyph makes your hemo dot apply SV without the need of rupture/garrote.

#3 Backstab over Hemo - If you can't hit your targets back/sides and you're not energy capped it's often a good idea to just keep trying to get to his back/sides and then spam out all your energy with backstabs the only time you should hemo over backstab is if the target isn't letting you get where you need to be or if you need to apply your hemo dot for SV. But if you're going to energy cap (hit full energy) you should just spam out hemo so you don't waste energy.

#4 Pooling energy before stuns - In most situations it's a good idea to pool some energy before going for a full kidney or any other stun, e,g, if you're playing with Prey and you full kidney without any damage that 5-6 seconds of 10% extra damage is going to waste where as if you stun with 60+ energy you're going to be able to spam backstab for the entire duration of the kidney making your overall damage a lot better.

Should I rupture with Hemo glyph?

Rupture is an incredibly strong ability for rogues and its damage is increased by 10% by default because of Sanguinary Veins. Even when specced into Hemo veins glyph you should focus on keeping rupture up if you're training a target but only if you have the combo points to spare and you feel putting out that extra evis won't get you any sort of defensive/healing cd from the enemy team, also having that extra damage ticking when you burst can be fairly noticable and even the difference between someone living and dying.

Stat priorities

Mastery > Versatility > Crit > Haste > Multistrike


Cloak - Gift of Mastery / Breath of Mastery
Neck - Gift of Mastery / Breath of Mastery
Rings - Gift of Mastery / Breath of Mastery
Mainhand - Mark of Bleeding Hollow / Mark of the Shattered Hand
Offhand - Mark of Bleeding Hollow / Mark of the Shattered Hand


Not going to list all my macros here such as focus ones etc but these are just a few that might come in handy for some people.

/cast !Stealth

#showtooltip Preparation
/castsequence reset=10 !Sprint,null
/cast Preparation

/cast [target=Namehere] Shadowstep
/cast [target=Namehere] Shadowstep

#showtooltip Shadowstep
/cast [@focus] Shadowstep
/cast [@focus, nostealth] Kick

/cast sap

#showtooltip Vanish
/cancelaura Subterfuge
/Cast Vanish


Here are a few addons I use that might help other people.

Arena Plates - This is an extremely good addon which places a green border around an enemy players nameplate when they're out of combat which can help you get mid game & opener saps.

Omni Bar - Omni Bar is the new Interrupt Bar as IB no longer recieves updates, I'm currently trying this out.
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Anticipation - The default combo points have a 30ms animation time which doesn't seem like a lot but it feels like a lot to me so I use this addon to speed up the animation down to around 15ms making my combo point animations slicker and smoother so I no longer have to wait for Honor Among Thieves to catchup with all the animations for each combo point.

Rogue Streams
http://en-gb.twitch.tv/jacktv_ (My stream)

There are plenty other good rogues who stream but these are just a few who are more consistant with how often they stream.

Pandemic Effect for Rogue buffs
http://www.wowwiki.com/Pandemic Since WoD every class has been given the pandemic effect warlocks had which basically means we can refresh our abilities like Slice, Rupture etc and have most of the remaining duration added on to the duration that you would get from however many combo points you use.

Overall this means you can refresh SnD with less than 10 seconds & Rupture with less than 8 and have much longer durations making the rotation better.

Missed anything / Stuff you want to see

This has been my first guide and I thank you for reading this far, if you want to see anything else I've maybe not included or perhaps something you want me to elaborate on feel free to ask.
In terms of stuff you'd want to see I can maybe add stuff like how to team fight as a rogue in RBGs etc.
Also feel free to pm me or contact me in game.

Thanks for reading

#4251850 instant karma

Posted Tuzer on 03 November 2014 - 10:08 PM

hehe funny video i found :D

#4244764 Cheating, AJ & You

Posted Dizzeeyo on 27 October 2014 - 08:40 PM

View Postjaimex, on 27 October 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

actually nvm i forgot aj was full of random duelists who nobody would ever pay to pilot anybody so
when people like you pay people like me 200k per person to join a challenge mode group in the first month of wod, ill find this post even more hilarious then I do already :)

also lol at how your insults scale over a season

jaime reaches 2k rating playing lsd

"LOL everyone below 2k is a random duelist rat"

jaime reaches 2.5k playing lsd

"LOL everyone below 2.5k is a random duelist rat"

jaime reaches 3k playing lsd

"LOL everyone below 3k is a random duelist rat"

season ends, jaime can't gain anymore rating as lsd

"LOL everyone here is a random duelist rat who couldn't even sell boosts if they wanted to"

:) :) :)

#4244701 Cheating, AJ & You

Posted Lolflay on 27 October 2014 - 08:10 PM

View Postjaimex, on 27 October 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

most people with a problem with boosting are too shit / too unknown to get regular boosts. Hence why they don't like it, people want what they can't have. Most players dont give two shits about whether or not duelist jimmy gets his title cause some big bad r1 player beat him one game at 2400 mmr :(

Oh. My. Fucking. God.

The moment a person actually starts to tolerate you and maybe think that you'll turn out alright in the end, you write shit like this. You're a lost fucking cause, aren't you ? Take it from someone who did more boosting than you've had chance to during your little Ele Shaman escapade - if you're doing it, at least don't be a dick about it. You can't honestly believe boosting is good for this game ?

Here's a personality trait I had before. I used to be extremely hostile towards some players ( who I guess you could call "new kids on the block" ) who got Gladiator/R1 in the past, mostly because I didn't deem them worthy enough ( If I'm > them, why did they get reward >= mine ? )

But even though I was bitter towards them, I've ACCEPTED them. And do you know why ? BECAUSE those players are what keeps ARENA alive.

We have two players, Bob and Murray.

Bob is a guy with 3000 arena games in this season, Bob is a solid Duelist, but he might have a shot at Gladiator in 1000ish more games.

Murray likes chasing tail more than playing arena, but Murray wants Gladiator. Murray decides to buy Gladiator.

Bob gets at the exact rating the cutoff is at. Murray's boost knocks Bob out. Murray walks around with the title, while Bob, a legitimate player who probably would've continued playing arena if not for scumbags, is left in dirt.

Sure, Bob can try next season, and he probably will, but he's been fucked out of a title he worked really hard for, while on another hand, Murray just got his Glad achievement, title and mount, and will probably never participate in arena again at all.

TL;DR - anyone who supports boosting in any way is fucking retarded.  Timeline of events :

- R1/Gladiator means something, is a prestigious thing to acquire in this game.

- more people start playing arena

- Gladiator cutoffs lower themselves each season ( not proportional to skill )

- morons start sharing R1 titles ( while claiming they don't care about them, interestingly enough they care about them so much they're willing to scout 24/7 and play hard to land at share rating )

- at one point, old, better players start separating themselves from new players ( community divided )

- new players' entry into highrated PvP scene becomes very hard

- boosting starts being a regular thing

- cheating becomes a regular thing

- DDOSing becomes a regular thing

- PvP quality continously declines

- "who gives a shit about this game omfg, new players suck, boosting cheating etc"

You're all fucking hypocrites, and more importantly, morons. Saying you give a shit about a pixelated title doesn't make you less of a person, and taking MASSIVE shits on the thing you love playing for the sake of "reputation" is basically taking shits on yourself. "Yeah man, my hobby totally blows, I'd rather eat hot horse shit than do it, but I'm still doing it". Bunch of imbeciles.

#4245742 Suggestion on How to Stop Boosting

Posted Youthless on 28 October 2014 - 11:41 PM

Hey Glads of the world,
Its your humble peasant Youthless with a revelation/suggestion that I hope one of you champions of battle can bring to the forums where all the big boys post:

To get Gladiator/R1 title you can only have one IP address log into that specific character for the duration of the season.

Blizzard has the ability to check the IP address every time someone logs in so it would be easy to for them to track specifically who is getting boosted if they added this specification to the two titles. Lets get real for a second: The big boys don't really let anyone play their "serious" account. I highly doubt the Snutz's of the world let people stroll around on their mains anyways. This will affect no one except for the people who have been getting boosted.

If you play at multiple houses (IE you're a kid and your parents are divorced, you play at your GF's a lot, etc) there could be a system where you have to log in a certain percentage (not a certain amount of times, that would be easy to fake) of times. For example 33% of all time online on that character would have to be at the secondary IP or else it would be considered a boost.

I think if blizzard initiated a system like this boosts would go down 90% and although they would still occur, it would only be for close friends and it wouldn't depress the lower minions of the community who are just pushing for the next title. The boosts affect everyone all the way down to the challengers even if you don't realize it.

TL: DR -----------------


1. The most obvious reason that was highlighted in the "Cheating and WOW" thread is the "Duelist Jimmy" Scenario. Brief synopsis: Duelist Jimmy plays 3k Games and is a stones throw away from gladiator but Challenger Gus wants a cool dragon to impress all his raiding buddies so he buys a dragon, never PVP's again, and leaves Jimmy without a dragon.
       The biggest issue not highlighted in this thread is that Glads hardly take a chance on duelists and duelists never take a chance on rivals and rivals laugh at challengers. I (A true peasant, I'll admit) have been 30 points from duelist 4 seasons in a row, and because of this, duelists generally don't want to take a chance on me unless I "go hard in the paint" in the first game and solo someone. ENOUGH ON THAT.

2. I've seen numerous times where people openly talk about boosting and how they "only kill 15 idiots before the same old cookie cutter gladiators start showing up". Well I am one of those 15 idiots you slaughter with your MLG caliber buddies. In a game where 30% of the teams generally are a hard counter, 30% are free wins, 40% are close games (depending on comp, obviously),  10% boosts really, really, really hurts us peasants, dogging it out for scraps.

3. Integrity. Imagine a world where you look at the ladder when you wake up and think to yourself; these are the guys I have to beat instead of "I wonder who carried this idiot".

4. Can't tell who is an up and coming player. I might be a rival but I still actively enjoy and follow the E-sports like my dad watches football and I like to know who the new heavy hitters are. The ladders can offer a slight glimpse but it still has too many variables.

There are plenty more reasons but I've already rambled enough for one day. I've been reading AJ since S8 and honestly I was too afraid to ever make a thread as literally everyone on this whole site seemed like an asshole but I see a white ray of hope. It seems like people are over cheating.

Regardless of if you think it is a good idea or bad, I'd love to hear feedback.

Sex and Candy,

#4218568 EU WoW Arena Tournament Stream Discussion Thread

Posted Shadaka on 26 September 2014 - 11:12 PM

I wish Azael casted by himself.

#3761292 blizzard mistake[?]

Posted Smetig on 06 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostDakkrothy, on 06 September 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:


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#3758088 5.4 PVP Power and Resilience Guide

Posted Eldacar on 03 September 2012 - 01:00 AM

***With the release of Patch 6.0 leading up to Warlords, this guide is fully out-of-date, a full re-write is in progress***

Eldacar's Guide to PVP Power & Resilience

Hello PVP'ers! For those of you that don't know me I go by Eldacar and I am a long time PVP'er and PVP Theorycrafter, as well as a member of Blizzard's forum MVP program. I write PVP focused guides and do everything I can to help the PVP community grow and prosper, which is why I wrote this PVP Stats Guide. You can find me on twitter as @EldacarJS and on the US Official Forums as Eldacar@Boulderfist. This guide goes into a lot of detail and gets into some complex stuff in a few places, if you have questions leave them in the comments and I will answer them as best I can.

- The base damage reduction of Resilience was increased to 72%.
- The Resilience rating to damage reduction conversion formula was altered.

Summary & Key Points:
-Resilience has linear returns, +100 Resilience rating increases your effective health by 1.235% relative to displayed health.
-PVP Power has linear returns, +400 PVP Power gives you +1% damage or healing in PVP (before spec modifiers).
-The latest season's PVP gear is generally the best gear for instanced PVP, however in world PVP players with heroic raiding gear will have an advantage.
-PVP Power does not cancel out a target's Resilience but it will still help you hit them or heal them harder.
-It is generally ineffective to gem for PVP Power, gemming for primary stats is more effective in most cases.
-The PVP trinket set bonus offers roughly 8.25% effective damage reduction and will always increase your effective health by 32.11% of your displayed health.

Table of Contents:

Section 1 - Resilience
1A - The Exponential Returns of Damage Reduction
1B - The Diminishing Returns of Resilience Rating
1C - Baseline Damage Reduction
1D - Effective Health
1E - The Full Scale of Resilience
1F – Resilience on Items

Section 2 - PVP Power
2A - The Absolute vs Relative Returns of PVP Power
2B - PVP Power's Interaction with Resilience

Section 3 - Gemming for PVP

Section 4 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks

Section 5 - Appendix
Appendix A - Valuation and Frame of Reference
Appendix B - Formulas

Section 1 - Resilience

Everyone reading this likely already has at least a general understanding of how Resilience works; its fundamental purpose is to provide percentage based damage reduction against all damage done by players, the more Resilience you have the less damage you take. That is fairly straightforward and easy to understand; however understanding how the stat scales and all the factors at work is more complicated. There are three main factors that go into how Resilience scales, first is the exponential returns of percentage based damage reduction, second is the diminishing returns of Resilience rating, and third is the baseline 72% reduction that all players have in PVP.

Section 1A - The Exponential Returns of Damage Reduction

The effects of percentage based damage reduction scale exponentially, the more you have the more valuable additional damage reduction becomes. For example, let's say someone is hitting you for 100 damage, if you have 0% damage reduction and you add 1% that 100 damage is reduced to 99 damage, a 1% effective reduction. However if you already have 90% damage reduction and you add another 1% that 100 base damage which was already reduced to 10 is now further reduced to 9. That change in incoming damage from 10 to 9 is a 10% reduction in actual damage taken by adding just 1% of damage reduction.

Here is a graph that shows how the value of damage reduction increases as you gain more:

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As you can see at 50% damage reduction additional reduction is worth twice as much as normal, at 90% its worth ten times as much as normal. This kind of scaling isn't unique to Resilience, armor and any other percentage based damage reduction (even in other games) function the same way. Games control the overall scaling of these mechanics by manipulating how fast you are awarded the damage reduction.

One additional note on this, in World of Warcraft different damage reduction mechanics have multiplicative relationships NOT additive, what that means is that the value scaling for any one of these mechanics is only accurate within that one mechanic. At 50% damage reduction from Resilience an extra 1% from Resilience is effectively worth 2%, however none of this has any bearing on the value of additional damage reduction from say armor, that scales totally independently but in a similar fashion. Because these defensive stats scale independently from each other and have a multiplicative relationship they can each be examined and valued independently.

Section 1B - The Diminishing Returns of Resilience Rating

For Resilience the main factor that counters the exponential scaling of percentage based damage reduction is the diminishing returns on Resilience rating. The more Resilience rating you have the less damage reduction is awarded by each additional point of rating, as shown in the graph below. This is how Blizzard controls the overall scaling of Resilience as a whole, and it is what they change when they want to alter the way Resilience scales.

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As you can see in the graph, the amount of additional damage reduction provided by additional Resilience gradually declines as Resilience rating increases.

Section 1C - Baseline PVP Damage Reduction

Mists of Pandaria added a new factor to the way Resilience scales, the baseline PVP damage reduction that all players have which was increased from 65% to 72% in patch 5.4. What this has effectively done is significantly shrink the damage reduction gap between under geared players and fully geared players. This combined with the limited availability of Resilience on gear and through gems has significantly lessened the impact of resilience as a stat at level 90. The difference in damage reduction between a fresh level 90 and someone in the best possible pvp gear is now relatively small.

Section 1D - Effective Health

Effective Health (or EH) is perhaps the most critical metric for measuring survivability. Effective health is essentially how much pre-mitigated damage it takes to kill you. If you have 100k health and 0% damage reduction your effective health is just that same 100k. However if you have 100k health and 50% damage reduction your effective health is 200k, because someone would need to do the equivalent of 200k pre-mitigaged damage to kill you.

It is also important to note that more than just increasing the size of your effective health pool, damage reduction also increases the relative effectiveness of heals on you. With 50% damage reduction a 1k heal actually restores 2k of effective health. This is one of the reasons why increasing your effective health through damage reduction is better than increasing your effective health an equivalent amount through raw stamina.

Effective health is really the stat that best indicates the value you are getting from Resilience and it is the stat you need to be paying attention to when evaluating the survivability of your character. Effective health is displayed on the graphs below as a percentage relative to displayed health, an effective health (EH) value of 150% for a player with a 100k displayed health pool would mean that player has an effective health from just Resilience of 150k. When you factor in other effects like armor and damage reduction from talents your EH is higher but we are just looking at Resilience by itself here.

Looking at effective health over the full scale of resilience as shown below illustrates how the exponential returns of damage reduction and the diminishing returns of Resilience rating combine to cancel each other out and generate perfectly linear returns.

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As you can see the effective health returns of resilience are perfectly linear, adding 100 Resilience rating will always increase your effective health by 1.235% relative to your displayed health.

Section 1E - The Full Scale of Resilience

This next graph brings it all together displaying both the scaling of damage reduction and effective health based on Resilience rating at level 90 in patch 5.4.

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This graph should drive home once again that although the damage reduction you get from additional Resilience diminishes the more you get your effective health continues in a linear fashion anyway thanks to the increasing relative value of that damage reduction.

Section 1F - Resilience on Items

At this point you may be thinking "I want to get as much resilience as possible and become totally unkillable!" which sounds great, but unfortunately it is a bit impractical. Although there is no Resilience cap you are extremely limited in the amount of resilience you can get in game on current season items. Most fully geared players will have around 3375, which is what you get from the PVP trinket set bonus and the PVP meta gem. The lack of resilience on gear is not a big issue because currently a player with nothing but the baseline 72% reduction already has 357% effective health, which is more than most fully geared players had at the end of Cataclysm.

For those of you contemplating using a PVE trinket or two here are some facts to help you make your decision. The 2600 Resilience offered by the PVP trinket set bonus provides roughly 2.31% additional damage reduction from baseline, which is about 8.25% effective damage reduction after factoring in the value scaling. Furthermore the set bonus will always increase your effective health by 32.11% relative to displayed health, so if you are currently at baseline you would go from 357% EH to 389% EH.

Section 2 - PVP Power

PVP Power is a relatively new stat introduced to the game in Mists of Pandaria which acts as the offensive compliment to Resilience. The idea behind this new stat is to encourage players to use PVP gear in PVP by putting major PVP-only offensive gains onto PVP gear (or in the case of healers, healing gains). PVP Power increases all damage done to players (under all circumstances), and healing done (while outside PVE-instances), by a percentage that increases based on how much PVP Power rating you have. The amount of each bonus you get is also dependent on your class and spec.

-Healing specs receive 100% of the healing bonus but 0% of the damage bonus
-All other specs receive 100% of the damage bonus and a partial healing bonus depending on class.
-Damage specs for Druids, Monks, Paladins, Priests, and Shamans receive a 70% healing bonus.
-All other specializations and classes (including tanking) receive a 40% bonus to healing from PvP Power.

PVP Power is currently the primary differentiator between PVP gear and PVE gear. It is a "free" stat on PVP gear, meaning it is not factored into the item's stat budget. As a result when comparing PVP items to PVE items of the same item level all the general-purpose stats should be equivalent but the PVP gear will have PVP Power on it as well making it a better choice for PVP. This fact is particularly important due to the presence of item level limits in all instanced PVP. The item level limits change with each season, but their purpose is to limit the item level of PVE gear to be equal to or lower than the item level of the current season's PVP gear. These two factors together generally ensure that the current season's PVP gear is always the best gear for instanced PVP. However the item level limits do not function in the open world, so in world PVP a player in the latest heroic raiding gear will likely (and unfortunately) have a large gear advantage.

Section 2A - The Absolute vs Relative Returns of PVP Power

PVP Power's scaling is very straight forward; it has linear returns when looking at it in an absolute sense, adding 400 PVP Power will always give you another +1% damage or healing in PVP depending on your spec. So every additional point of PVP Power will increase your damage/healing by the same amount. However I have seen some players around the forums describing PVP Power as having diminishing returns, and they are correct to an extent.

If you evaluate the returns of PVP Power in a relative sense it does have diminishing returns, going from 0%-1% will give you the same absolute damage increase as going from 30-31%, but in the latter case that damage increase is smaller relative to the damage you are already doing. Virtually everything in the game operates the same way. Think about primary stats for example; +3000 strength would give a warrior a pretty nice bump in damage right now. However if Blizzard said "Hey we like you random warrior!" and bumped their strength up to 100,000 then that +3000 strength would suddenly be worth a lot less to them even though it would still increase their damage by the same amount. The reality is that in order for a stat to offer you consistent relative gains as you gear up the stat would need to have increasing absolute returns, in other words it would need to give you more and more damage or healing the more of it you got. (For more info on absolute vs relative valuation see Appendix A)

Now it is time to look at the actual scaling of PVP power, which is shown in the graph below.

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As shown in this graph PVP Power's returns are perfectly linear. You gain either +1% damage or healing for every 400 PVP Power you have, this is also the “baseline” upon which the reduced healing bonuses for non-healing spec are based. The red line shows the healing bonus for hybrids (70% of baseline), and the yellow line shows the healing bonus for everyone else (40% of baseline).

Section 2B - PVP Power's Interaction with Resilience

The most common misconception that most players seem to have about PVP Power is that it acts as a kind of "Resilience Penetration" which counteracts the target's damage reduction 1 for 1, that is simply not true. PVP Power increases your damage by the percentage shown in your stat panel, it always increases it by that same amount regardless of how much damage reduction the target has. Your outgoing damage is calculated first, then the target's damage reduction mitigates that damage according to their stats.

Take for example a warrior who's swing always does 100 damage in PVE. This warrior gets a +50% damage increase from PVP Power in PVP, so that 100 damage get's increased to 150 damage in PVP. This warrior has now decided to attack a paladin that looked at him the wrong way. Lets say the paladin has +50% damage reduction; so when the warrior's 150 damage hits him it is reduced to down to 75. That is how PVP Power and Resilience interact, the outgoing damage is boosted up by PVP Power, then the total incoming damage is mitigated down by Resilience.

Section 3 - Gemming for PVP

One of the most popular questions I get is "What should I gem for?" Unfortunately I cannot provide a clear cut answer to that question. The answer is dependent on your gear level, class, spec, play style and more. My recommendation is to check how the pros of your class/spec are gemming, and then experiment to see what works best for your personal play style. However I will say that it is typically ineffective to gem PVP Power at level 90, gemming primary stats is generally more effective for damage or healing.

Choosing the best gem for survivability is significantly more complicated. Stamina gems will almost always provide you with more effective health, but Resilience gems don't lag too far behind in the effective health they add. Additionally Resilience gems scale up in value proportional to the amount of healing you receive because they increase the amount of effective health restored by that healing. For now I recommend gemming for resilience if you are looking to increase your survivability, but I will look at this topic in more depth in a future guide.

Section 4 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks

I hope that this guide has been illuminating for everyone that has taken the time to read it, I have tried to provide as much accurate and detailed information as possible about the way these stats work. If you have questions about these stats or about anything written here feel free to ask and I will do my best to get you an answer.

I error checked this guide many times however I am still human, so if you believe you see an error please let know and I will look into it. I also want to make it clear that although I am a member of Blizzard's Forum MVP program I am NOT a Blizzard employee and nothing in this guide is based on any kind of inside information. All the data in this guide was all generated based on direct in-game observation and calculations based on that observed data.

General Notes
-This guide is written for level 90 players, the numbers are different at lower levels
-This guide just underwent a major update and revision, if you notice a typo please let me know!
-Some of the graph types from previous versions of the guide have been removed to reduce the complexity of the guide, but may return in the future.

Section 5 - Appendices

This is some additional information about some of the ideas, concepts, and data discussed in this guide. Additional appendices may be added over time as needed.

Appendix A - Valuation and Frame of Reference

Absolute valuation compares numbers based on addition and subtraction, IE going from 30% damage reduction to 60% damage reduction is an absolute gain of 30%. Relative valuation compares numbers using ratios, IE going from 30% damage reduction to 60% damage reduction is a relative gain of 100%. Why is this important? Because taking the example a step further, going from 60% to 90% is an absolute gain of 30%, exactly the same as before, but it is a relative gain of 50%, half as much as before. So if this trend were to continue, it would signify linear absolute returns but diminishing relative returns. This guide primarily uses absolute valuation because it is much easier to understand and work with when comparing a large number of data points to a common baseline.

Frame of reference is another critical concept for evaluating data, particularly when most of the data is in percentages. There are two basic methods that can be used to evaluate a string of data points; constant frame of reference, or progressive frame of reference. Constant frame of reference uses one common baseline value as a reference point, every data point is compared to that baseline. In contrast a progressive frame of reference compares each data point to the data point before it. Take for example this set of data points: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. On a graph using a constant frame of reference they would be displayed as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (all data points were compared to a baseline of 0). However on a graph using a progressive frame of reference they would be displayed as 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 (each data point was 1 larger than the number before it).

Using a constant frame of reference makes it much easier to evaluate the actual changes in the progression of a data set, where as using a relative frame of reference allows you to better evaluate changes in the rate of change over the progression of a data set. Since we are more interested in the actual changes than the rate of change when viewing the scaling of stats I chose to use a constant frame of reference for the graphs in this guide.

Appendix B - Formulas

The formula I use to calculate damage reduction from resilience in patch 5.4 is:
Reduction %  = ((28900*0.72)+x)/(28900+x)
x represents resilience rating.

The formula I use to calculate damage increase from PVP is:
Damage increase %  =  x/400
x represents PVP Power rating