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xpac is good from a pve standpoint, absolutely awful for pvp currently
wont be nearly the amount of positive feedback frm pvpers once the arena season is actually out and people see how awfully tuned everything is
yeah there are artifact power for weapons to level and pvp honor talents but after that is done then ??
gearing from pve has always had that semi rewarding, grindy (ish) process which a lot of players from AJ or who just focus on arena never really do so its going to be a new experience for them but i play pretty casually and im 845 ilvl with 26 pvp level currently
after the first month or two its going to be a case of going back to sitting in ur garrison (or class hall now) if your main focus is just pvp unless they release more content that gives you that incentive to do. right now the incentive is to stay ahead/keep up with everybody else(which ends up feeling more like a job than being fun if you aren't able to spend hours and hours on the game). after you get the full gear and full honor talents and full artifact there is nothing. it's a fairly easy process that doesn't take THAT long to do. compared to something like tbc where you had to get reps to revered to get into the hard as fuck heroics and when the arena season was out there were still things to work on (1800, 2k etc) for the gear pieces. (nevermind the fact that you still did pve for the trinkets and such for arena as well so pvpers had a lot more options on what they could do to affect their pvp experience) what we are doing in legion is still a very very very casual version of what it used to be.
and don't get me wrong it's nice that blizzard is getting back to it's mmo roots, but people seem to be looking through some pretty intense rose colored glasses with how this xpac really is.
idk if its just the newness of the xpac that is blinding people or what but in all honesty while it's good to have a bunch of stuff to do, it's really nothing all that crazy. if you actually think about it all youre doing is just doing more quests in the zones you leveled in which you could have done with every xpac and once youre finished with the AP and honor, there really is nothing else to do for a pvper.
I am noticing people are saying "if you only pvp then yeah youre going to get bored but if you do other things it's pretty fun" which makes no sense to me. literally EVERY expansion has given you the option to do both pvp and pve, like this isn't new to legion guys lol you just haven't ever had a reason to do things outside of bgs and arenas for so long until now again. (for now)
maybe i missed the meme but i dont understand why people keep bringing up nicholase's wife when 99% of u if not all of u that have brought up him having a wife have either never a) even had a gf before or b ) if u have had a gf before it was just edating
i dont understand how having a wife is supposed to be a flame at all or what it even has to do with anything on AJ
goin to see ton of ppl randomly dcing as usual sick
tbh not excusing ddosing at all but if you actually think you have a solid chance at competing then i feel like you should be intelligent enough and driven enough to find a way to change your ip or use a different internet if you know someone has your IP or you have shit internet
why is it that everyone is obsessed with trying to be so vocal about how much they hate the game and how they think it's shit
i don't remember nearly the amount of crying from when heroes was released
the arguments are just as stupid
"i hate the game so that means you should too"
"the game is by far more fun and better than wod"
if u dont like the game then dont play it, dont have to waste your life trying to convince everyone else that they shouldnt like it either
and comparing the game to a mmo is just as retarded
i dont think anyone with a decent amount of braincells saw overwatch and expected it to be the next best, quality FPS when it is coming from blizzard
the amount of crying that comes from people not liking overwatch is just as bad, if not more annoying than all the retards that randomly discovered what private servers were this last year babbling about how grand it is
thats my entire point, there is close to nothing to study for vanilla raiding, what exactly is there to study besides spamming shadowbolt? because that is the entirety of a rotation is spam pressing 1 button, there is almost nothing in terms of studying how boss fights go in vanilla because the boss mechanics are beyond basic. "rushing" for server first is literally just a situation of which guild is the most organized and have the 40 people to be able to do it on time. there is no warlock with half a brain that is going to try to say "I am the best warlock on the server, i push shadowbolt faster than anyone else"
and I hate to put this out there but the "average player" that you just described would have no idea what a nostalrius was or what a private server was until recently with nost shutting down. the "average" player who plays nostalrius and knows enough about private servers are going to do a simple google search of "pre raid bis" or "mage rotation" because it's a requirement for even pugs to see you in pre raid bis, the term is thrown out far too much for the "average player" to NOT at least google it.
being an "average player" is not another word for autistic or clueless which is basically what you're trying to imply with the examples you just used. there was a married couple in their 60s in my raiding guild on nost who were anything but hardcore and had a full grasp of the game and how it worked.
again, grossly over-exaggerating with the difficulty of the game, vanilla was time consuming, not difficult; there may be that initial shock of getting used to the game and how it worked compared to wod, but not nearly as difficult as you're putting it
Not an argument of if the game was difficult back during when vanilla was just released, it's simply pointing out that it is not remotely hard at all at this point in the game. Of course the game was "harder" when it was new because no one knew what they were doing, there wasn't a surplus of information that you could find for your classes or even leveling guides for awhile there is a reason why content was cleared 5000x faster on nost than it ever was during retail vanilla, what was considered major progress during retail vanilla times was pugged on nost and that is simply because the game isn't new anymore, keybinding isnt a new, edgy concept anymore.
the stuff you listed isn't even being "skillful" anymore, it's common knowledge and is expected of you vanilla/tbc knowing your class rotation and such should never be used as an example of having to master your class/spec, the only role from a pve/raiding point of view that had it hard were warriors with tanking groups of mobs, every other class/spec have a 1-2 button rotation in terms of pve the video didn't highlight anything that took much of any skill (in my eyes at least) just very basic gameplay. is the pvp fun in vanilla? yea. is the pve fun in vanilla? from a mechanics point of view when facing bosses, not in the slightest. but the game WOULD be much better off like how it was during vanilla/tbc where the monsters were a lot more difficult when starting out in those dungeons which is what made it fun.
I literally only played on private servers from the moment wrath ended until wod was released (still play them after wod release), i've played on numerous vanilla/tbc and wrath servers including nost and khronos. so this isn't me being bias and shitting on the idea of legacy servers, i would love them. but people are grossly over-exaggerating the amount of "skill" it takes playing on vanilla/tbc servers. youre mixing nostalgia memories with how it is now after years.
tldr; with the amount of information that is out now and the amount of people that have a lot more wow gaming experience under their belt now, vanilla is a joke in terms of skill related anything
but it was hard leveling up you actually had to manage stuff and cc now you can just go full autism mode and do shit
being hard = / being semi required to use the spells given to you
i enjoyed playing on nostalrius too, and i played during retail vanilla on release
people keep using this argument of how "hard" or skillful vanilla is when it isnt vanilla was known for how much of a GRIND it was. How you could log in at any time and there were so many different things you could do, rep grinding, pvp grinding for higher title etc. none of it was hard, it just was time consuming which is what made the game fun
pvp in vanilla in terms of balance is godawful, people complain about cc now when it was 100x worse in vanilla (lol what is a dr) but it was fun because world pvp was relevant BECAUSE of the fact that there was so much to do in terms of grinding etc and there were a multitude of toys you could use in pvp; not even going to touch on how much of a grind pvp was as well
even the raids in vanilla are very basic, the only reason naxx was considered hard is because of how much you had to GRIND for consumables and how much you had to GRIND to even have access to go into that raid, the mechanics for the raids were just as basic
so if you guys are going to argue for legacy servers, back up your argument with something that makes sense; has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that me or anyone else don't want legacy servers; it has to do with people having this deluded thinking that vanilla was so great because of the amount of skill it took when it had nothing to do with why vanilla was so fun