Shamans had lock spriest, hunters could drain mana and do priest/pala rogue hunter or druid hunter, mages had rmp and rogue mage, druids had everything, priests had rogue priest and rmp. The only class that was in a pretty bad spot was paladins, but even that could partially work with warrior mage pala or warrior enh pala and the warrior having sword spec and the shaman spamming purge. Also pala's where one of the best healers for 5s. Everything was viable (as a class not spec) in different brackets and comps.
The only comp you said without the 4 "needed" spec is lock/shaman/priest. And it became good when they changed haste in the middle/end of the xpac to make the stat affecting dots.
Every other comp was dependent on the holy quatuor to be viable. You cannot played any other comp without at least one of them.
So in essence, you can believe what you want, but I will not be convinced that a ferocious, fierce, hotshot gladiator whatever now is better than a furious or a vengeful gladiator from 2s and therefore, that their titles are more prestigious.
Prestige is just a matter of point of view. You don't think the new "r1" are better, and i don't think title matter at all. I got few of them during MoP and WoD, i got glad in the best pvp expansion ever created by playing a totally hard comp without pve gear (It's sarcasm btw.), i never put them longer, it's just... useless. Unless you're 19y old undead rogue and care about your e-reputation, it's meh.
The mounts however...
During Wotlk, people migrate on lower bg to get it easier (Talk about prestige), people shared it in 5v5 with 11 other team (I was in one of them.), and in 2v2 during tbc, well, it was rdruid/x.
Just a point of view.
But i agree on one point, i miss customization. As someone who played old school RPG, damn, i loved it.
I have transmog to fill the void, but yeah...
TBC to WoD : "Who cares about the spirit stat?!" Hmmm :3
I think this whole Vanilla thing is gonna be a disaster. Not because of the game, the game was fine itself. Classes were dumb to play (Despite what Dizzeeyo vomits every day just to complain, classes were dumb and clunky) levelling was slow and easy and you need a tremendous amount of time to progress in the game. (There was a sentence in french, maybe you had it too back then was "Moins tu dors plus t'es fort." The less you sleep the stronger you are.
Don't get me wrong, i loved it. Every second of it, even if my social experience was awful. The game could be played solo enough to progress. And yes i stayed minutes to inspect people with t3 gear too.
I really think the community will destroy it. Between the retail one who likes Legion (Which i am, but i think it's because i don't compare my dick to other players to see if it's bigger, so i can enjoy what wow is, a game.), the one who hates it but still plays it, the one who wants honestly to try vanilla, and the real community, the despicable elitists who speak louder than everyone else. Look at all the forums, the streams, twitter. It's gonna be a cold shower for a lot of people.
Maybe i'm wrong. We'll see.
The vocal vanilla community is the SJW of WoW. Pretending to fight racism and intolerance while being worse.
Maybe it's only my personnal experience but i got way more friends after Cataclysm. Vanilla from Wotlk was extremely elitists and arrogants when the "pleb" managed to reach the same spot. And for PvE... well, it's probably less personnal and more "solo games with people around" but at least i can do it at my level (HM at max) without being rejected because i had the luck of prefering the shadow spec and not being dwarf.
The community is maybe more dumb but way more open on its way.
Tip for Vanilla : play an ud sp with your friend and you will be able to duo all the level 60 dongeon without having to wait 2h for a tank (Warrior.)
I think it could be great addition to boost PvP. PvP has 2 parts in my opinion, one is having fun, the other is showing how big your bratwurst is. This is harsh, I know, but people wants their R1 to show their d***s to other peoples. PvP is like that.
However, as people in the videos and here said, it has to be well done. It has to be attractive enough (even for people who haven’t pvp at all, so they can try it.), and not too much either, so the 3v3 organized team bracket still prevails. Basically, the rewards must be there, but always less interesting compared to the regular bracket.
Basically the same title thingy (Maybe not the r1 title, only a gladiator like title, be imaginative), with a different title for solo queue, and a different mount too. The solo queue mount would be a “Insert new mount”, the team queue would be the same, with armor and other fancy stuff in it.. And of course, a unique mount model. Not some recolor one of a PvE one. If you played Wotlk, remember the outrage when we get some Frostwyrm in S5, while PvE didn’t get something like that. Please, let us have unique things...
Of course, the same mmr system as in 3v3, so it can’t be like TBC, where a gladiator SL/SL | Rdruid, bored, disband their team, and start over at 1500, stomping people who wanted to progress at their own rate. Maybe the solo queue mmr can’t be lesser than your 3v3 one, I don’t know how it could work.
And, indeed, incentives. That’s the biggest part. Otherwise, it will be an enhanced skirmishes system.
We need incentives to play. And not only the last rewards at the end of the season. All the time. And many rewards. Useless one, like pets, tabards, mounts, title, toys, transmogs, everything. Some of them could be quite simple, and accessible to anyone. Some others can be more challenging, like enchant transmog, and elite set. And there comes the challenge. You can add Achievement to do (Win X games in a row in solo queue, win X games in a row as a team…), or the old Wotlk/BC system of “You need X rating to buy it.”. “You need 2400 rating in regular 3v3 and this achievement to have this”.
The elite set could be something like that, you can buy part by part, if your rating increases, the highest one could have the visual part of the set, helm and shoulders. Example with the current season, and the paladin set. Currently, the purple looking one is from LFR, the yellow, from Normal raid, blue/red from PvP, the green from HM, and the “improved” yellow one from Mythic. The “elite” set is brown/blue.
Imagine those were not PvE related. You could have the yellow as regular PvP gear, the purple/green as the solo queue “rating require” one, and the improved yellow/brown as the regular 3v3 “rating require” one. And this is only transmog.
Everything could be bought by some PvP currencies your earn by winning/losing game (Like Timewalking DJ). Let’s have some hypothetical numbers, imagine you earn 3 points by losing a game in solo queue, 6 in 3v3, you win 12 in solo queue, 30 for 3v3. So you can “farm” currencies all the time, buy your stuff, and play. And regular gear can be cheap to buy, while elite stuff and toys etc… could cost more, so, like in a MMO, you can invest and work for it, to show to everyone else. Have higher rating would increase how much you earn, so progressing can be rewarded too.
(If some toys or glyphs allows me to have a shadowmourne type graphical aura while I use wings, or a graphical aura like Warcraft3 paladin or the Val’kyrs fight in TOC (Wotlk), be sure that I will farm the shit out of it, even if it costs 100.000 things.)
It could have some “non useless” rewards too, for people not really interested in the toys thing. If the same “you drop your gear system” stays (Which is… not really horrible to be honest, even if I miss reforging a lot, you’re not the slave of your bad gear now – artifact is another story -, but vendors should have stayed, so you can buy your stuff, and still drop it. It’s still nice to see a good drop.), they can add the gear to another NPC, so you can increase your ilvl in arena without hoping to drop the right part. And of course, add token like professions now “Increase the ilvl of one part of gear by 5, max 3 times”, with a tiny cost, so you can have your “warforged” gear by working for it. Not something which increase your outside stats too much (Because, hum, PvE), just for your ilvl.
And voilà. You can play solo, earn money, buy stuff, increase your gear, and the regular 3v3 would be still the main value of “skill” (Hrum.). And show how big your… rating is… yeeeeep.
1) The problem with your solo queue system is, in my opinion, about the spec, and as said by Ridtur, it's gonna be a nightmare mixing the mmr, the cr, the spec YOU choose, and all of that together. Especially for the spec, because WoW has always been fotm, people will never need a blood dk if it's trash, or any spec that are less good/interesting to use.
We have already our "solo queue" system, but it's not interesting to use it because of the complete absence of rewards or incentive (Rating, competitive, title... everything.). I think of skirmishes of course.
Why not extend this to a rated system? Different titles/mount of course, different and/or similar rewards (gear, elite gear), different ladder. Exactly like a Moba, you can queue team 3v3 (Like the current one), with a fix comp, or you can queue alone, and be mixed as a 2x dps (tank included) / heal.
Of course, it's random, you can create a complete weird comp, or win the jackpot with a rogue/mage, but it's like that in any Moba. With an mmr always equal to your current one in teamed 3v3, so you are always mixed with people on your "skills.", without being handicaped or without destroying people who only want to progress.
Add that a total system of achievement based on the rating + class you play with for multiples rewards, a different title/mount at the end, remove the name during the game so you are anonymous (outside of transmog) and voilà. It could increase the streaming population too.
2) I... don't really understand the damage/healing part.
3) Not agree at all. It would make differences between classes even more huge. And i'm glad you picked the hpal example. Because you forgot the PvE part. First, talents need to be equally good to be in the same row, otherwise one will be always picked. (And it has always been like that, in any xpac). Second, PvE numbers. Right now hpal have the lowest healing power of all, thanks to PvE. Why would i pick some weird talent while crippling my already low healing?
PvP talent row should be focused on a spell. One row = One spell. Without each talent giving a advantage (Range, magical/physical debuff, crit chance, cd reduction... use your imagination) while reducing another one. So you can adapt with your playstyle and comp.
4) As said before, a "Nagrand like" would be better. With different size too (Like Tol'viron). And even if i like the new graphical revamp for Blade's edge, it's the worst map :x
5) Totally agree, we need more customization. And it could be an easy way to nerf the "OP" stat for some spec by just increasing the cost of each points.
So is holy the was to go now? Is it overall better or just in some setups? Im already spending my ap for disc and shadow at the same time and dont want to waste it on holy when its not worth it
Outside of RMP where any healer spec works (Surprising no, i wonder if RMProtpally could work, probably.), holy is overall better. You don't care about mana, you are extremely resilient against 95% of people who doesn't know how Ray of Hope works. (The "counters" are warriors - keep your sharpen for the ray -, dh - imprison -, and cyclone.), and your healing power is really good if you can cast.
However, holy suffers from a lots of bugs or... unintended effects, some of them are good, some of them are not.
+ Ray of hope is still +100% heal. (Corrected today it seems.)
+ Ray of hope can be used while silenced (Corrected today it seems)
+ Greater fade can be used while silenced. (A good way to nerf it would be to put it on holy school.)
- Greater fade doesn't immune you to all type of cc. For some reason bursting shot goes through it, the displacement thing from enhancement too. At first, i thought "Ok, AoE cc are not counted, but ww monks and dh stun are missed)
- Guardian spirit doesn't work with warriors. Don't know why, but it doesn't proc. (Execute?)
- Holy ward doesn't work against Outlaw rogue stun. (But there are quite rare, so it's ok.)
I think the 2k elite gear, 2200 tabard, 2400 enchant have some sort of sense but the Prestige mounts should instead be awarded, maybe, for higher rating or something.
Prestige rewards are fine to be honest, mmo's should have some mindless and useless grind (Prestige rewards are like Vanilla ranking system, just a "Who plays more gain more.", but even a casual player can have the prestige rewards, compared to Vanilla.), as well as other rewards, which shouldn't be rewarded by time, but more by "skill" (Or whatever you want to call it.)
I do think the arena rewards are outdated, glad/titles being rewarded at the end are ok for a long term goal, but all in between are... quite lacking. When you reach the point to have the enchant/tabard, there is nothing more.
PvP need better rewards, better incentives to play it. Incentives that even a PvE guy can be attracted to.
Historically if you look at it, MoP was when the new wave of "Rank 1's" came into the game, while all the old guard besides a handful moved on. That is why most of the people who have R1's from MoP like that expansion, it was the first time they were getting titles due to the game already becoming drastically easier to play at that point.
Isn't rank one goes from "Only one team" to "0,1% of teams" during MoP? Because during Wotlk, i could have obtain 2 rank one. In 5v5, yes, and one of them was with 11 other teams (If you're an old school guy, it was quite a drama back then )
Especially when team start to migrate to lower populated realm to have it easier.
For me Wotlk is, in design, exactly like RMP is now, you have a lot of things to press indeed (binds/spells.), you can do beautiful plays indeed (Even i who hates rogue/mage with all my heart can admit that.).
But 98% of the time, it's not necessary. And it was the main criticism of Wotlk : that people can win by doing nothing special (LSD), by pressing abilities which can crit for 60% of your health (Destro warlock.), by having a stupid PvE gear which proc at the right time (DFO), and that the game was way too fast paced compared to TBC (Which was extremely slow).
The only thing which was better in Wotlk was the "class role", not the imaginary "depth" of classes (Even if i like having lots of interesting spells), hpal were extremely powerful defensively while lacking offensive tools, disc priest had bad healing but powerful offensive spells, rsham were disruptive and bring BL, rdruid had everything except magic dispel...
That why MoP was, in my opinion, better. And if you want to compare the beginning of MoP with the OS warrior, and BM hunters, sure, but let's be coherent. S5 dk was an abomination, followed by the tanks healing spec (Paladin), and the rise of pve geared wizardcleaves.
MoP was stupid as the end too. Frost mages casting were 0,3% of their spells, holy priest too, ele shaman rng proc, all those instant unavoidable cc..., symbiosis...
But the system itself was really good. There were no stupid PvE gear like Gurthalak or Shadowmourne, you can buy your gear (Even if i like the Legion system one, why not having both? You can drop the gear, and buy it too?), there were glyphs, there were reforging (My biggest pain.), they were gems, you can customize your stuff. It was not as slow as TBC, and not extremely fast as "Damn, my spell crit" Wotlk. And all your spells were useful all the time.
I don't really mind the talent system because i always thought that they were barely any customization in there, with either the "new one", or the old "tree" one. Everyone at the end used the same build, the only difference were when you had to put a point to reach the big talent. 1% haste or 1% crit? Basically.
But yep, if you want to increase participation, you have to make interesting rewards for everyone at every rating, and at every time, not only at the very end of a season. So there is a goal. And then unprune the classes.