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Posted Slappajack on 24 April 2016 - 08:58 AM
Posted Lloix on 29 June 2015 - 02:52 PM
Basic Spec Rundown:
Good spread pressure through rupture+venomous wounds. Good burst opportunities every minute with a stun ->MfD+DfA+Vanish/Envenom (this is not 100% the burst rotation, varies by talents and situation obviously).
Good burst/utility. Worst sustained damage out of all three specs. Your time spent outside of shadow dance is maintaining buffs/debuffs, disrupting the enemy healer, and peeling for your partners.
Good sustained damage with Killing Spree still being one of it not the best rogue CD at the moment. Received damage buffs with last patch. With 6.2 you can be peeled while KS is up (some talents like fear are not interrupting KS, will update later once it's decided if KS is bugged or not). Arguably the top spec for rogues still in 6.2. There is a higher 'skill cap' involved now as cross-cc will be necessary to land kills with KS, or you'll have to use a defensive CD such as Cloak of Shadows to not be stopped.
Nightstalker - This talent went from bad in 6.1 to situational with the buffs to Assassination. The increased damage is very noticeable, however you give up a LOT in order to see higher numbers. I can see this as an ideal talent choice for certain 'all-in' comps such as DK/Rogue/Healer, however I am not confident in saying that the damage is worth giving up that much utility/defensives for.
Subterfuge - I feel as though subterfuge is the ideal talent choice in almost all cases. With it you allow yourself easy cross-cc on your opener (cheapshot on multiple targets to allow easy follow up cc on a DPS/healer) and vanishes. Also allows for better openers against certain classes like frost mages, where if you take Nightstalker you'll be pet nova'd on your opener every time. There is a lot of counterplay available in that you're able to do things like sap a trinket off of blind while still being able to cheap/garrote your main target. Without subterfuge you really lack options to peel, which I feel is one thing that rogue can excel at, and is one thing that differentiates a good rogue from a bad one.
Shadow Focus - I don't think there is too much to say about this talent, the free-cost opener could be nice, but this talent is lacking compared to the other two in this tier.
Deadly Throw - Deadly throw went from broken in 6.1 to pretty useless in 6.2. One situation where it might be more useful would be against melee cleaves, but even then I wouldn't say it's better than having nerve strike for peels, or CR for a strong defensive ability.
Nerve Strike - Nerve strike is a very strong talent that synergizes well with subterfuge as you're able to peel entire teams and debuff their damage for nearly 10 seconds (stun+NS debuff). This is the go-to for an caster cleaves, and should be taken against any teams where you know, for a fact, that you would not get swapped to. However in most situations, and with the way classes have scaled in 6.2, I would argue that anything melee on the other team would warrant a pass on this talent. Not having CR and getting swapped to by a warrior will usually mean death, and good players will be able to pick up on that and know to focus you.
Combat Readiness - Combat Readiness is another great talent and one of the things that make rogues so difficult to kill. In most situations getting off CR right before you are swapped to can mean the difference between life and death. This applies for feral/rogue/warrior etc. burst. If you're caught in a smokebomb without trinket, the only thing that may keep you alive will be whether or not you were able to feint+CR before you're stunned. You should not be using this unless the enemy is using offensive CD's to kill you and your healer has no options to keep you up.
Cheat Death - Could be considered a decent talent in that it allows for a few extra seconds to live, but falls short compared to elusiveness.
Leeching Poison - Not worth using.
Elusiveness - This has been the number one talent for a long time now, and it's proper usage is important in staying alive. 30% damage reduction is nothing to pass over. With subtlety, your 4 piece set bonus will also give you a good amount of versatility, meaning your feint will double as a short offensive and defensive buff. Being able to feint before you take damage in a stun makes a huge impact in how vulnerable your healer needs to make himself in order to keep you alive. A good habit will be to keep feint up at all times when you are being targeted, and know to use it preemptively when you are being swapped to (if a warrior charges, or you see someone target you, use feint).
Cloak and Dagger - Not a very good talent choice at the moment, having to rely on stealth for gap-closers doesn't fit well.
Shadowstep - I feel step is the best choice as it was last season as well. Instant swaps, and the ability to step to teammates (such as a healer right as a godcomp bursts you) is a huge difference maker. You're also given a more reliable means of kicking healers with this than you would with Burst of speed. Good players will see you BoS to them and know you are either going to kick/swap and can react accordingly. Having the ability to do that instantly is a huge plus.
Burst of Speed - BoS is still a very viable talent and can outperform ShS in some comps where you're going want to have closer to 100% uptime on a target. Any classes with spammable slows will punish this talent, however, as it gets countered hard by any on-demand slow. Although slow effects are removed when you active BoS, it does not make you immune for the duration. For example, if you're playing against a rogue using this talent, simply shiving him when he uses BoS will cause him to waste a global and 30 energy for nothing. It still remains the talent of choice for RBG's.
Prey on the Weak - Prey is currently the best choice of talent for Assassination and Subtlety. The damage bonus applies not only for you but your teammates as well. With the way damage has scaled in patch 6.2, this talent seems even further ahead for these specs than it was before.
Internal Bleeding -This is a really strong talent and I still think the go-to choice for combat rogues as it's damage scales with your Deep Insight buff.
Dirty Tricks - Not worth using.
Shuriken Toss - Not worth using. Helps in duels against mages/hunters.
Marked for Death - MFD is the strongest choice of talent in this tier again, both because of the fact that none of these talents underwent any changes and the fact that the on demand damage is so important. For Assassination rogues this talent lines up perfectly with your 1 minute vanish so that you're able to get two finisher off in a short period of time. The same concept applies with Sub and Combat, as having an extra evis can mean the difference when trying to land a kill.
Anticipation - This talent falls behind MfD but in theory could allow for more sustained damage. You're able to pool combo points more and have extra finishers after you stun, but the fact that this isn't on demand and promotes a more passive playstyle (in that you need to wait for 10 cp's before you can stun as opposed to five) gives it a pass in my book.
Venom Rush - Despite looking plain on paper, this talent is actually very good. The additional energy and regen help out more than one might think for things like swaps etc. It gives you a bit more freedom in using things like feint, and isn't that difficult to maintain. For sub rogues I feel this talent is the go-to choice as the spec relies on quick swaps so heavily, so making sure you have the energy to do so is important. Your entire Shadow Dance can be ruined because you had to garrote or gouge someone else right before a swap and left you with too little energy to execute your dance properly. I also feel this is an great choice for Assassination as 155 energy is a LOT to dump into someone during a stun.
Shadow Reflection - This is another strong talent, however I feel it works out best for combat and falls behind for the other two specs. The reflection does not receive any buffs you have up (such as deep insight, trinkets, and Vendetta) and only copies special abilities that you use, not auto attacks. It is a good damage increase when used properly with a full energy bar to dump, and possibly including an extra evis/envenom with MfD, but the biggest bonus you get with this is the additional stun. Be mindful that there would be a delay, so if your intent is to chain kidney one target that you wait ~3 seconds so that the stuns do not have a gap between them.
Death from Above - DFA is a very strong talent, and arguably the top choice for Assassination rogues in 6.2. With all CD's up, this talent hits VERY hard and is something that most team will have to react to in order to live. Note that there is a long animation associated with this, which does allow teams some time to react, which could potentially negate all of the damage. This includes things like spectral guise, Cloak of Shadows, Smokebomb, etc. Also note that the initial 'hit' is an AoE, so be mindful when using this ability when you're close to someone who's in CC that could be broken.
I'd expect to see a majority of assassination rogues to be running this ability, at least for the start of 6.2. The fact is that dealing 170k+ damage to someone with one ability is no joke, however there are downsides to using it. There is a decent energy cost, and the long cast time gives your opponent some time to try and react to it in some way. I also don't find this ability ideal for any other spec, as with sub you lose a lot of time during your dance with this, and it's hard to fit in between stuns.
Assassination- Subterfuge (NS with a DK pairing), CR, Elusiveness, ShS, Prey on the Weak, Marked for Death, Venom Rush/DFA
Combat- Subterfuge, CR, Elusiveness, ShS, Internal Bleeding, Marked for Death, Shadow Reflection
Sub- Subterfuge, CR, Elusiveness, ShS, Prey on the Weak, Marked for Death, Venom Rush
These are just the main glyphs you should be using but you might find there are rare occasions where other glyphs that might be better good for what you're doing.
Cheap Shot - Strong vs. melee teams and situations where you won't be using garrote much. For sub in helps to have for Shadow Dance feel more smooth.
Garrote - Should be used vs. most caster teams, next to mandatory against teams with mages.
Blind - This glyph is pretty much mandatory however you could see yourself passing on it in certain comps where you don't see yourself making swaps and AoE dots would not be an issue. These would be very specific situations however, and as a rule of thumb I'd generally take it.
Hemo Vein - This glyph has been seen much less use since MoP as it doesn't fit in well with the specs current rotations. That being said the other glyphs pretty much outshine this small bonus (hemo does next to no damage at this point and should only be used to generate combo points in a pinch) in most situations.
Glyph of Energy - This is another glyph I feel is mandatory since losing our previous set bonus which gave us 30+ energy allowing us to open more efficiently than without it due to energy starving. -Jack
Glyph of Disappearance - This glyph is very strong with Assassination and Combat. It lines up perfectly with MfD and on-use trinket enabling your Kidney>MfD+DfA>Vanish>Envenom combo that will allow you to burst further into the game. With Combat it allows you to have a garrote/CS window for the off dps+healer, and awards you the 5 combo points+Guaranteed crit on your next Eviscerate.
The only other notable glyph could be the Glyph of Recovery. The additional 20% healing is nice for games where you would be trained, but from my perspective I feel like the benefits you'd gain from the other glyphs is superior.
Glyph of Energy flows is also situational, but I can't see too many situations where even having the additional energy during evasion is going to help noticeably more than the other glyphs.
Assassination- Blind, Energy, Disappearance (all 3 pretty mandatory in most comps)
Combat- Blind, Energy, Cheapshot, Garrote (All situational) Disappearance (mostly mandatory)
Sub- Energy (Mandatory) Cheapshot, Garrote, Blind, Feint (Situational)
Gearing is still pretty straightforward as it was last season. Mastery is the top stat for all 3 specs. Versatility is also very nice and should be picked up on the helm/boot off-pieces (I think the boots from last season are still better than the blue boots available now which lack the versatility/mastery combo). Vers. only has those two options for slots, so get it there, I'm not considering it in my stat weights. Crit and multistrike remain nerfed in PvP, but for the general idea that burst damage>sustained I place crit higher than haste, though you could argue it might be better in some situations as Assassination or Combat.
Yes, they're pretty much the same across each spec. Mastery scales further for Assassination than any of the other specs, and with weapon procs can get very high. For trinkets you want to have the agility+on-use versatility, and the agility proc trinket. Enchant everything with Mastery including both weapons.
Pretty straightforward, you'll want to hard-open with your DfA+Vanish envenom combo, with the use of trinket/Vendetta if you're opening on something that has no reliable out (rogues/ferals/warriors). After that you will ideally keep rupture up on as many targets as feasible (this includes pets) and pool energy to full when you can kidney your target. Always try to save DfA, MfD, vanish, and your on-use trinket for the same usage. Against certain comps, namely godcomp, you will have to consider 'wasting' a defensive in vanish in order to put out pressure fast.
Opener with Nighstalker: Garrote>Mutilate>Kidney>Vendetta+On-Use Trinket>MfD>DfA>Vanish>Envenom
Subterfuge opener is largely the same, except you can garrote+garrote/CS the other dps/healer. You also have the option to cheapshot/garrote the kill target after your vanish+envenom, or cheapshot/garrote the other dps/healer if they are close enough to step to.
Sub remains the one rogue spec that can be played differently and very effectively. I still find that the sustained damage outside of dance is pretty poor, so just training one target, in most cases, will not be the ideal way to play. As I said before, outside of your damage CD's, you should be maintaining 5cp SnD, Rupture (I keep this up on the main target as well as the target you would possibly swap to), and recup. If you have the energy to do so, always feint prior to your shadow dance/smaller burst windows.
Standard Opener: Premed+SnD>CS (garrote into cs if mage, stand in front of him so you aren't rooted just out of melee range)>Rupture>Shadow Dance>2x Ambush>Kidney Shot>MfD+Evis>Ambush>CS>Evis>CS>Ambush
Provided you've put enough CC on the healer, this rotation will keep the kill target locked down and force some of their CD's putting you at an advantage right out of the gate. To maintain your lead you have to be doing one of two things: Locking down the DPS so they cannot put damage out, or locking down the healer so that they cannot easily top the target you opened on.
Your play outside of dance depends on what comp you're playing, what you're up against, and what the other team is doing. As a general rule, you need to be peeling if the other team is using offensive CD's. Gouge>Kidney is very good CC. In general, using kidney is a great CC tool as it is reliable, won't risk your healer overextending to land their cc, and is a good setup. Just be mindful of DR's if you're planning to swap.
On a healer, even if you're not on the kill target (remember your damage isn't that great, and you should be partnered with someone who can do good consistent pressure such as a hunter, lock, etc.) gouge>kidney>vanish+garrote>ShS cheap+premed evis kill target is a very good amount of pressure going out.
I don't think you're making the most use out of your vanishes as a sub rogue if you're ONLY saving it for a defensive. In fact, the only times I'd use it as a defensive is as a last resort, which in most cases means using prep early for a second vanish.
Mid-late game, once your Dance comes off of CD, my ideal play for landing a kill is to kidney the healer for further CC setup, then go onto the kill target (who needs to have a rupture up on them prior to this)
Shadow Dance>Premed>CS>Evis>MfD>Evis>CS>Ambush>Evis>CS>Ambush. If the target's trinket is down, now would be a good time to use a smokebomb. Also note that in most cases it will be more worthwhile to use a sap on the healer/dps during dance when you can get it off, as your partner should still have damage to land a kill. Don't forget that Blind drops the targets combat, so if you're quick enough you can Sap them right after they trinket.
Combat is a pretty straightforward spec to play. Essentially, your whole game revolves around doing constant damage to whatever target you can sit on reliably to try and force CD's, and wait out chances to ShS>Kideny and use Killing Spree during red Deep Insight proc. You want to maintain SnD, recup, and revealing strike at all times. Try to time out your killing spree during some form of CC, as you should be forcing defensive CD's out of the enemy team every time you use it. Also keep in mind that you can generate combo points with Revealing Strike, and should use this method when trying to delay your red buff from activating. Communicate with your team once you get yellow and let them know when you'll have your full damage up.
You do not have to always hold off on using killing spree during red. Using it during yellow is still great, and in late-game situations being able to force CD's during your yellow Killing spree and still have things like shadow reflection and Adrenaline rush during your red buff is a great form of sustained pressure.
I am not as well versed in combat as the other specs, but I feel a solid opener would go like this:
MfD>Kidney>AR>Revealing Strike>SS until you reach 5 combo points>SnD>SS until 5 cp>Recup>SS/Revealing strike so that your redbuff will proc just AFTER the stun DR fades>Kidney>Killing Spree.
Of course if you force a trinket from the healer on the initial kidney, you can look to swap to them on your second kidney shot with red buff up. I've seen players also use Killing Spree in their opener as well and use AR immediately afterwards, the playstyle I feel depends on your comp and what you're up against.
Quick Tips: (WIP will add as others contribute)
Envenom is not considered physical damage. Meaning things like CloS or DK spell immunity will cancel it's damage. It still goes through BoP.
You can open on hunter by knocking them out of their stealth with fan of knives BEFORE you are unstealthed from the actual flare, as long as your FoK damages them first you will activate subterfuge.
Mentioned before but for emphasis: Blind drops combat on the target, so if they trinket you have the chance to sap immediately, or also use distract if they trinket to run into a smokebomb and you cannot sap (if you're with a mage)
There is a ~1-2s window of immunity when you land from DfA. Be aware of this when trying to peel a rogue immediately after DfA lands.
When opening on mages, always start by being positioned in front of them, not behind. When you garrote, their initial reaction will be to pet nova you and move away. You cannot Garrote>Cheapshot them (with subterfuge) if you get nova'd out of melee range.
Please feel free to add/correct anything as you see fit. I'm sure I missed a couple points here and there.
Posted Miixzy on 11 April 2016 - 09:07 PM
Posted Montyx on 11 April 2016 - 04:18 PM
Part of the challenge of league is how it throws you in the deep end (if you have never played a moba before) and it takes ages to even begin to understand what the fuck is going on in lane or team fights. Its frustrating at first, but it makes you want to get better at the game and gives you things to aim for at least.
I'm not super interested in compromising LoL design in the name of accessibility. Yes, League is obnoxiously hard to learn if you don't have a friend showing you the ropes. That sucks, but it's not worth stripping away the depth or potential for mastery for our core audience -- you guys -- in order to attract new players. That's not an approach every game can or should take, but it's the right call for League.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Posted Worstpriestjk on 04 April 2016 - 10:39 AM
Posted Infernion on 07 April 2016 - 07:56 AM
Credit to Luddex for co-creating!
Posted LifeforceUS on 03 April 2016 - 05:01 PM
Posted Hexur on 02 April 2016 - 09:05 PM
Posted Ashleyirl on 31 March 2016 - 04:32 PM
It doesn't even remotely seem like wow anymore - very few spells, all these new animations feels OTT and clunky, nameplates are gross and the game just feels horrible in almost every respect.
Realistically, how do you go about fixing this? The '#stoptheprune' thing has good intentions but let's not pretend they're going to bring back all abilities lost - we may see the return of a couple here and there but there's not going to be a full-scale return of pruned abilities.
Just the core game feels lost, it doesn't feel like wow anymore - it feels like a wannabe moba from 2009 - if i wanted to play a moba, i'd play an established esport like league etc.
I can acknowledge the argument "its still alpha, they'll be a lot of changes" but in reality will there be? blizzard seem reluctant at best to heed advice about pruning and i've seen very little pro-active work from their side on addressing issues that stick out. Also, its not even (on the great scheme of things) THAT long till release ~ they said it'll be released before 1st of September.
From what i've seen though, its not little small niches and changes to abilities here and there that fixing, its literally the fundamental core of the game that seriously needs addressing.
I know this is pretty criminal to say, but it feels like there is actually so much wrong with Legion that i dont really know how you go about addressing the problems it has in a way that will realistically get a response from devs.
not going to bother sugar-coating it just cos i simply don't see the reason to, however, you need to sugar-coat in order to get a useful reply from blizzard.
Posted polesmoker72 on 28 March 2016 - 01:21 AM