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Member Since 08 Feb 2013
Offline Last Active Oct 05 2015 11:40 PM

#3846378 5.2 Warrior stance problems - long read but contains something to think about

Posted Russmo on 08 February 2013 - 05:11 PM


The reason they implemented the cooldown was to make changing stance a tactical choice and not just a reflex reaction. This is something I agree with, however, stances as they are at the moment (flat percentage increases/decreases) don't change gameplay significantly enough to achieve this. As a result people feel like they need to switch stances constantly in order to get maximum benefit from the buffs instead of making a choice.

Blizzard need to address the stances themselves. Not just reduce the cooldown.

I saw the above comment in a recent thread and it got me thinking;

The problem throughout MoP so far is that there hasn't been any room for decision making when choosing what stance to use. Defensive stance gave a flat out 25% damage reduction and there wasn't really any reason to switch to another stance because there weren't really any adequate punishments for doing so. Yes, rage generation was slightly poor, but not to the extent where it became a major issue and especially because our two main attacks cost no rage at all.

The problems with the changes approaching in 5.2 are that we don't really have any other option but to sit in Battle Stance. With the 10 rage cost added to Overpower, we won't have any where near enough rage generation to consistently use our abilities in Defensive Stance. 5.2 testing has showed that Warriors in Battle Stance feel they are taking very large amounts of damage and its obvious why - going from being used to 25% reduction to suddenly 0% reduction is sure to feel much squishier. Before I go on I want to say that I agree 25% reduction was too strong, and 15% is a fairer number.

This poses two possible scenarios;

1. A Warrior is caught in battle stance and is stunned, whilst his healer is caught in CC. Without a trinket, that Warrior is going to die. We'll become the new 'die-in-a-stun' like Rogues have been all expansion.

2. The Warrior manages to get in to Defensive Stance and is now taking 15% less damage and survives. However, the enemy team realise that this has squashed all pressure the Warrior was creating and continue to sit on him all game (we all know training in arena is still a frequent tactic for many comps/players).

To those who don't play Warrior, here's the numbers - In Defensive stance, you generate 10 rage from Mortal Strike and 1 rage per 3 seconds whilst in combat. You do not generate rage from damage taken. So whilst being trained, much like in the above scenario, a Warrior will Mortal Strike (generates 10 rage), then Overpower (uses 10 rage), then have to wait the remaining time left of Mortal Strike's 6 second cooldown before he can generate rage again. It's important to mention that this completely destroys the possibility of using other rage-cost abilities such as hamstring, slam/heroic strike, thunder clap.

Now you can see that there will be literally no other reason than to sit on Warriors all game because their damage output and utility will drop to almost non-existence. It's important classes are punished for going defensive, but not to a point where they're useless.

Going back to the quotation at the beginning, stances should be altered to give the Warrior intelligent thought opportunities. Stances affecting rage generation doesn't really seem to make sense, why restrict the resource of a class because they're playing defensively? Why restrict what abilties they can use whilst playing defensive?

Surely it's more reasonable to restrict other areas such as damage levels. For example Paladins don't have a lower Holy Power capacity when using defensives, DK's don't have lower runic power generation, Rogues don't have reduced energy capacity. The list goes on.

The rage generation whilst in Battle stance feels nice, not too much, but enough to be in a position where you can throw the odd heroic strike here and there (rage dump ability).

I think rage generation should be the same as it is in Battle Stance for all stances, and the benefits/negatives of Stances in general altered.


Battle Stance: +5% damage dealt, -5% damage taken

Defensive Stance: -15% damage taken, -15% damage dealt

Notice here that being in Defensive Stance means you deal less damage aswell. This is applying the points above that if you're playing defensively you can't be attacking at full capacity. With consitent rage generation across the board Warriors will still be able to actually use abilities, they just won't be as strong, and that's how it should be.

Berserker Stance: +15% damage dealt, +15% damage taken

Berserker Stance is virtually unused in PVP and PVE, lets give it some use. Staying true to it's name, being in Berserker Stance suggests the Warrior is in a reckless state, and being in this stance means that although you're doing more damage, it comes at a price. This allows for tactical choice of when to use this stance, as well as presents enemies with opportunities to identify that you entered Berserker Stance and can act accordingly (which would be to blow you up). The +15% damage dealt would likely be overpowered at this stage in the game and could be altered, but it's just an example of how the Stance could work

Personally I think the above changes would make Warriors more balanced in 5.2 as well as making the class much more engaging to play. The problems on the road ahead are that Warriors are going to become train targets, with no way to retaliate.

Other suggestions
If the rage generation wasn't made consistent between all stances then I'd suggest two other options;

Make stances changeable when not in control of your character - This allows for prevention of being gibbed in stuns when caught in Battle Stance.

Make Defensive Stance generate considerable rage when taking damage (and keep rage generation through attacks very low) - I'm actually surprised that Defensive Stance generated literally zero rage from taking damage. You're in Defensive Stance for a reason - you're taking damage! Nor does it make sense that Berserker Stance currently has this feature. This would allow warriors to actually use abilities when being trained in Defensive Stance. On top of that, the result Blizzard wished to make would have been reached - Warriors will be primarily in Battle Stance instead of sitting in Defensive Stance 100% of the time.


Original post on EU Warrior section, I can't link because of my post count.