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Feliclandelo

Member Since 08 Jan 2013
Offline Last Active Today, 11:18 AM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: Ret on Beta

Today, 11:17 AM

View PostGigana, on 22 October 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

I agree with felic. I can see the benefit of EmpSeals in PvE for some single-target fights, or for random BGs and duels against certain classes, but in arena or RBG it just seems so subpar it's unbelievable.

Even in 3s, most ret cleave comps seem to me to be built around using FV. Even ret/rogue relies mostly on stuns and slows to do its cc.

The way I see it, unless you insist on playing with a hunter or a mage (unlikely in the first WoD season, as melee prolly gonna dominate), FV+divine purpose for massive aoe spam is going to be both most fun and most effective, unless ofc you're Avangelyne or Vanguards and can actually get maximum benefit from other talents.



I don't see any reason for using DS in arena.

View PostAnimefreak3K, on 22 October 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:



And a good defense is still a good offensive.
We also have a saying here: "Attack is the best defense".



That was my point earlier. You're using a phrase that means you should be more aggressive instead of defensive. So how does that support your cause? I don't understand. You want to play very defensively with EmpSeals, so how does this expressions work in your favour? It directly contradicts you. I'm not sure you understand it.

Anyway I'm planning on playing Ret again in PvP, haven't done it seriously ever since WotLK because I felt the playstyle was garbage efter after. Being forced to play gimmick comps such as Ret/Hunter where you were completly reliant on your partners and their classes just felt too boring for me.

Our damage is pretty average on beta, so I hope it will be enough for PvP to actually be competitive on a high level.

In Topic: Ret on Beta

Today, 12:05 AM

I don't want to sound condescending, but what's your PvP experience? No harm intended.

I'm talking from a 3v3 perspective here by the way. If you want to sit and turtle go ahead, you'll just end up dying in a stun anyway or your partner will.

Also the phrase "The best defense is a good offense" illustrates my point even more? But you're not agreeing with me, so why did you say that :confused: :confused: :confused: . You want to play very defensively (where EmpSeals is still inferior with compared to Sera, if you want to go into details) where I prefer to have easier access to burst or knowing that you have a window where you actually do a substantial amount of more damage compared to 15% haste + 15% ap (as I mentioned, the haste is really weak in terms of DPS). The benefit just seems sub par for PvP.

I mean, just having 7,77% more versatility (not including the armor bonus) means your effective health goes from 310k to 336k. That's an increase of 26k health from using Sera defensively when you see you will take a lot of damage. The Seal of Insight buff heals you for around 31k over 20 seconds. So even defensively speaking it is not very good. Maybe it's fun in duels when you also swap around the seals to get 2-3 buffs and you selfheal with Sacred Shield or Selfless healer, and everyone is having a picknick, but it's not very good on paper at least.

Maybe live will prove me wrong at 100.

Edit: Sorry, 7,77% versatility only adds half the amount of damage reduction, so the effective health jump is not nearly that much. So it is possible the HoT will do the same amount of healing in half the duration as the damage you reduce. You do still gain +7,77% healing to WoG/Selfless Healer which you can use to compensate. So my point is perhaps a bit less valid healing/defensively wise, but remember you also gain the armor as well. My point regarding offense is still the same though.

In Topic: Ret on Beta

Yesterday, 10:47 PM

View PostAnimefreak3K, on 21 October 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

that's not true.


I did many 2on2 and 3on3 on Beta, with my (new) Style is discriped.
Some games went very long, but most of the games were a quick win, or loss.



It's only bad, because it ticks only every 4 seconds.


Trust me, you don't have to only play on Burst, to do pressure.

But I don't understand. You don't build a lot of pressure by using the seal defensively. I was refering to the AW glyph pre 6.0 It healed for 1% per 2 seconds. It's equal to the Seal of Insight, and it was litterally the worst glyph imagineable. Even in PvE. The ticks were so tiny once battle fatique was applied, and you have to spend 3 globals to it. It's like putting a Warlock symbiosis rejuvenation on yourself by using 3 globals. Absolutly terrible defensively, especially because its not burst healing, which you need when your healer is CC'ed. Like, really, they NERFED  glyph of avenging wrath and put it as a spell, it's so bad you can't believe it man.

By bursting you also generate pressure. It's not like your damage goes down, plus side is you just get more opportunities to finish someone off. 1000 versatility / armor is a lot more defense that such a measly HoT that will be completly useless when you're in a stun. You get 7,7% versatility and armor from Seraph alone, that is A LOT more effective health than what the hot provides you defensively for the seconds where you're being nuked.

And my point is, 15% haste is not only super bad (more globals is always nice, but damage wise its not very effective - our worst stat in PvE for DPS) but it provides you can sustain damage on your target in order to benefit from increased HP generation.

In Topic: Ret on Beta

Yesterday, 09:40 PM

View PostAnimefreak3K, on 21 October 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Not if you have much Strength and Versatility. Don't forget, we can sit in SoI, which can gives you a huge amount of Heal.

Bursting your Enemy down isn't always "the" solution.
Other Setups can burst too.  But what comes then?

You must not have all Buffs up. One or two are still ok. the Talent isn't about having every buff up, it's about fitting your Playstyle and/or handle the situation better.

Bursting is the only solution, that is also how you get pressure. As soon as they get fully hotted, pops defensives, you swap. FV and Sera can both do that... EmpSeals too. But I prefer the extra burst for killing people too, Im not planning on playing 10 minute games as Ret. It's about single target pressure while CC'ing or killing a healer.

But that is my point. You can't keep them all up, you already have sprint/slow on your team. And the one that actually adds damage is adding haste and AP. The AP is nice but 15% ap is not worth it vs. Sera/FV. The heal is subpar, SUPER slow (when did you die over a period of 20 seconds with no heals?? - just try to play with AW glyph and you see how bad the healing is) and haste is only good if you can keep on your target.

In Topic: Ret on Beta

Yesterday, 08:37 PM

View PostAnimefreak3K, on 21 October 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

As far as i know had the Alliance SoC and the Horde SoB. Not both.

Emp. Seals will give you a way better survivability, than Seraphim can do.
Don't forget - you can have 1-4 Buffs and stuck in one Seal.
Acutally i prefer sitting in SoInsight and Judging it.
For Speed i use Persuit of Justice in combination with Emp. Seal (Justice).
Pretty nice to stick on a Priest who uses the feather.

As i said Months ago, Surviving is more imporant in WoD, than in MoP.

SoC was a talent, SoB was Horde only. We had both since Paladins could be Horde. As the poster above mentioned, Alliance had a tanking seal which was honestly useless anyway. It was a mongoloid large DPS increase if you managed to do it correctly. Pulling 2k+ DPS on Brutallus being on par with Warglaive Rogues. Back then when you judged you also had to recast it as well and it will be super annoying if you plan on trying to keep up 4 buffs. You will litterally do 0 damage and the survivability you get is honestly not that strong. You can still swap to seal of insight if needed with Seraph, and you gain a lof of armor and damage reduction from versatility. 1% healing every 2 seconds is like a shitty Ysera's gift.

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Also regarding FV, you don't take it because you want to AoE in arena. You take it because you want to have an easy way of bursting and since it ignores armor it will probably be very effective against certain classes. If you like EmpSeals go for it, I just think its way too clunky, takes too many globals and I'd much rather be more free. But maybe it turns out that it's just too good to not take? We'll see. Keeping up the 15% haste should be no problem though, but as I mentioned, there's no DPS gain from it unless you can sit on a target reliably and gain more Holy Power from faster globals/cds, it won't happen often. Rather just go for large unload with Seraph or FV->CS-FV.

@Crono Also it's called Arthascleave if you want to name Ret/Dk/healer anything. Arthas started out as a Paladin, ended up a DK. Vanguards wasn't the first one to play it. It was played as soon as DK's were released in WotLK in season 5.

Edit: Can anyone tell me how much 1000 rating is equal to in % at level 100? I can do some quick calculations on how much 1000 versatility equals to in effective health. I need the health pool of a PvP geared character too (like 300k'ish right?, long time since I was on beta)

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