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Member Since 26 Nov 2012
Offline Last Active Feb 26 2015 05:51 PM

#4392856 6.1 state of arena?

Posted Dills on 25 February 2015 - 09:20 PM

#4306935 Versatility? How is this even worth the stat slot?

Posted Arancor on 19 December 2014 - 09:16 AM

In general for most classes Versatility is not that far behind the other stats in terms of DPS per item budget. Just look at all the theorycraft sites. In most cases Versatility is around 10-20% below the other stats AT MAX.

If you now consider that crit and multistrike get heavily nerfed in PvP, Versatility is already better than those two for basically all classes in PvP, only considering its offensive effect on damage. This leaves Mastery and Haste as the only stats that can even compare to Versatility as an offensive stat in PvP. Their effect heavily depends on class. While both stats are pretty okay for overall ret damage, they are only slightly ahead of Versatility in terms of DPS and don't offer the defensive bonus.

And yes, 1% damage + 0.5% reduction is not much. But if you compare 1% damage + 0.5% reduction (Versatility) to 1.2% damage and no reduction (Mastery) you get the idea. As a hybrid you even get 1% healing on top of that.

I think Blizzard indeed planned Versatility as being a PvP stat and a minor replacement for resilience. In the end, almost all Versatility items are off-set pieces and require that damn Ashran reputation, so access to them is harder.

#4285216 Bow down to the ret paladin gods

Posted Avengelyne on 04 December 2014 - 04:38 PM

There are approximately 5-6 Rets (that i'm aware of) that have a mastery of their class. Hopefully they end up in a state where those players can still compete and be viable for R1/Tournaments but have it where we don't see goober/FotM Rets that aren't playing at their potential flood the top ladder spots (like the debauchery that was S15 Locks, Ele etc.). If this happens I will cry for nerfs myself and probably not want to Q because pretty much anything accomplished would just be thrown aside as LOL S16 RET. Nobody wants that. The only people who want that are the turkeys that re-roll each season trying to get ez-glad.

I remember having a good experience @ Beta. Not much has changed since, when we are geared the pace of the game slows down because the HP gain scales way more than the damage gain. Remember when they almost added battle fatigue again when the game was so slow and nobody died?

Rets have historically always been way better vs noobs than vs good players. Good players figured out how to completely nullify their utility and CDs while bads just get donked on by it. It has also always typically been easy for a Ret to hit 2.2k by running in and popping all their CDs and destroying people that can't handle them.

It's important to also realize that Ret has always been a spec that beats cleaves. Even in their worst state, S15 we typically beat every cleave. Now that Wizards are toned down, we find cleaves dominating which Ret teams are having an advantage against.

The set bonus was actually a great idea had it been implemented in S15 where players had infinity CC for you as soon as they saw wings. Even if you wait until you're completely fear DR'd, they have no Gateway, you trap the Druid, pop your Wings.. you would get get they NS Hex'd. Then, you get knocked back, they port and your wings is over without them even blowing a single defensive CD (and at this point they still have 0.3 sec clones, instant unavoidable fears (howl/shadowfury -> fear), etc).

The logic is instead of spamming CC on the target most susceptible to it and also the most dependent on their cooldowns is that you would instead pop defensive's during the burst (resulting in offensive trade for defensive's instead of simply spamming CC). It was honestly an idea that made a lot of sense to give Retribution a fair play ground vs top players.

We have a situation where Retribution has an advantage vs the current meta (cleaves), can't mindlessly be CC'd during their CD's (intention was to help them vs top players) but unfortunately also results in blowing up retards harder than ever resulting in a tsunami of Q_Q and goobers getting top ranks (which hasn't really happened yet, season is only 2 days old but will probably happen).

In addition, while we are all in blues the games are incredibly short and bursty. Games nearly always end before Rets run out of BoPs/Sacs. Short games are a tremendous advantage for Ret as they have a large arsenal of CDs they can blow through (Ret has always been CD dependent and weren't top tier because of it!).

I guess in conclusion, I am hoping we end up in a state where we still have tools to compete vs the top players of other classes, but please don't make us so good that retards playing it can end up doing just as well which I believe is what everyone is whining about (losing to bad players just because they are Ret) and is what I would be whining about if I wasn't a Ret right now. Regardless of what each individual thinks makes them OP, Rets and Arena in general should be in a state where more skilled team/players win, which is what balance really is. The current state of Arena heavily favors Rets in every way possible. The situation should be evaluated once everyone is fully geared and real teams are actually able to log in and Q against each-other.

If we see e-sloots and FotM rerollers up there with the top players of other classes when the season matures a little more, please nerf us enough to get rid of them.


#4285178 Bow down to the ret paladin gods

Posted Avengelyne on 04 December 2014 - 03:39 PM

View PostAlidia, on 04 December 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Just qouting a friend playing ret myself :^)

I guess you are really biased as you are ret yourself.

Edit: let me rephrase and say, i think other classes have higher sustain but ret is still up there, satisfied?

You're right, that was mean. I am sorry, my mind was blown for a second there.

Ret has one of the highest burst sequences and as result their maximum DPS (and what our damage is balanced around) is extremely dependent on aligning cooldowns and procs. When these things aren't up. Rets "downtime", aka sustained, aka outside of CD's damage is significantly lower.

We still have some of the worst sustained damage, same as MoP, same as ever.

#4272907 Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide (6.1)

Posted Purecandy on 22 November 2014 - 10:43 PM

View PostMessman, on 22 November 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

Question, when are you guys getting nerfed?

Right after Ferals, Rogues and Glad warriors.

#4274020 Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide (6.1)

Posted Chitorger on 24 November 2014 - 09:31 AM

View PostShadx, on 23 November 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

does anyone have news for the stats weight in pvp ?

Posted Image

Posted Image

These are the PvE statweights (taken from http://www.mmo-champ...-amp-Discussion) in different gear levels, with different talents. The upper one is in 660 PvE Gear(closer to Honor gear) and the lower one Is for 695 (closer to Conquest gear, it has T17 bonuses factored in, though).

Multistrike and Crit behave differently in PvP (50% reduced effectiveness), so you probably shouldn't stack those.

Haste is okish until 15%, but does pretty much nothing for us after that, at least until we can get greater levels of haste.
Also haste loses value in PvP, since there's pretty much no scenario where we can sustain 100% uptime.

I'm currently stacking mastery and I'm talented into SW/FV, probably haste until 15% and after that versatility are the next best stats, versatility only because it does so many different things for us. We will probably get trained as much as in MoP and Cata, so Versatility gets it's full effect (It reduces damage taken. As human you get 100 versatility + the procc trinket as only ressource of versatility, leaves me at 341, resulting in 2.81% reduced damage taken and 5.62% damage increase.)

Conclusion: Mastery > Haste until 15% > Versatility > Haste > Crit > Multistrike, but I'm no theorycrafter and I'm really bad at math, so you should probably not trust me at all.

PS: Multistrike seems like it's REALLY shitty. You need more points for 1% than for crit and you only get a 30% dmg multiplier compared to the 50% of crit. Maybe I'm missing something, but currently it seems like it would never ever be worth it at any point for us.

#4267558 It's just me or WoD is completely unfinished in PvP ?

Posted Kelarm on 17 November 2014 - 10:10 PM

View PostDerpiousMaximus, on 17 November 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

It's actually pretty easy to explain, they most likely don't have time to read all the feedback they get. And with the small amount of pvp players giving feedback (tbh in general feedback from the pvp community is pretty lacking), the actual feedback is overshadowed by the feedback from the PVE community.

Imagine shitton upon shitton of feedback threads, messages etc. etc. from shitty pve'ers. Now there is this one good pvp'er that actually cares and gives feedback like DroonX, but his comment is a needle in a haystack (read pile of pve shit). Even if the entire pvp community would give the same feedback. They would still recieve over 20x as much feedback from the pve community on stuff..

You may have a point, which is why I've just come to accept it after all these years.  

However, that doesn't cover how something like this WoD launch can make it all the way to live.

Take season 5 shadowfrost for example (if you've been around that long).  That's the type of thing I can kind of see could get through beta testing (still somewhat retarded though if tons of people are laming the same thing, it's like they're not even paying attention).  It was an unanticipated combination of things that allowed that to work, especially considering the stupid shit like using that blue level 30 something mace that had a mace stun on it.  

Some issues, however, are another animal entirely.  Early WotLK burst was a good example of this, and current self healing is also a good example.  These are things that ANYONE who has absolutely any knowledge and experience with the game could identify literally immediately, by themselves, no feedback needed.  That stuff like this goes live every expansion merely speaks to the mind-blowing incompetence of the devs in charge of making this game.

#4197397 You realise EMFH = Blood Fury?

Posted Nekrofil on 26 August 2014 - 07:50 PM

ye i failed there its str vs ap in favor of human... ;D my bad and yea humans are stronger,but that shit dosen't matter that much if you know how to play you will compensate dmg loss somehow,all in all just play what ever you enjoy more :)

#4164673 Ret on Beta

Posted Animefreak3K on 08 July 2014 - 02:45 PM


Add Crøno ;D

I'm Horde :D
But i added you on an alliance char^^.


And if you look at the numbers I gave you, you'll see that our melee damage (auto attack, CS) is higher and our ranged damage (Exo, judge) is lower.

I think it's because of the scalings the changed (14AP = 1 damage, etc.)
Everythink scales with our mainstat, which it strength. And the missing 30% holydamage.

Exo and Judgment's damage is ok, crusader strike was buffed from 50% weapondamage to 120%. CS is again useful.
I would appreciate, if our seals would be useful (in damage). Nevermind, seals arent that useful, as they were before Cata.
They used to be something.
Seal of Justice, Seal of Righousness really needs to do much more damage. Seal of Truth just needs to do a bit more damage.

Ret is ok, others thinkgs needed to be tuned down.

#4163821 Ret on Beta

Posted Thazable on 07 July 2014 - 02:08 PM

Since damage is already being tested by you, I'm pretty interested in how much we actually heal, there was some stuff done to ret heals, which looked like they simply got buffed by a noticable percentage. I saw some beta streams and it looked like hybrid heal is pretty strong, so simple questions:

In comparison to ret paladins current capability of healing, do we heal more or less?
Do you think it is possible to outheal some dps as long as they don't have CD's up?
Do eternal flame or sacred shield look any good?

Also for a question which isn't about heal, if you freedom yourself two times in a row while sitting any CC, will the duration be reduced by both freedoms or just by the first?

Thanks in advance. :)

#4163809 Ret on Beta

Posted Forumz on 07 July 2014 - 01:36 PM

View PostCrono_Smash, on 07 July 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

I've got it on a giveaway on MMORPG site. I'm making myself avaliable for you guys. Not enough?
People will complain about everything.

I have a Ret friend who is sure to have some questions he'd like answered at some point. I'll post here when I got something for you.

#4112402 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted dionim on 02 May 2014 - 01:59 PM

Warlocks are doing good, ok lets nerf the only thing that they have and didnt changed at all in all the expasion even when they were one of the worst classes in 3s. This may fix the issue

On topic, i can get the point of symbiosis and gateway being cool spells and all that shit

But with those 2 spells blizzard just make the game 50% harder to balance lol, this spells can either be uselees and at the same time gamebreaking.

Imagine you at blizz HQ thinking about how to make every 3s comp have a chance against each other, then you realize that theres 2 spells that can do 1000000000000000000000000000 stuff and change everything you thought before.

#4111701 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted Pouncedd on 01 May 2014 - 07:56 AM

View PostNadagast, on 01 May 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

The problem is that you're making an argument without any regard for the larger context.  If WoW was a game where a Warlock's only spell was Fear and Hunters only had Scatter Trap, balance would be wildly off.  But WoW is not that game.

You're comparing a small part of one class' kit to a small part of another class' kit, and drawing bad, overly general conclusions from that comparison.  You have to compare the full Hunter kit to the full Warlock kit, and frankly, that's really fucking hard to do with just words on a forum.  That comparison needs to happen in game, with ladder rankings and player experience as the two main factors.  I would argue that Warlocks are not wildly stronger than Hunters right now.  Warlocks are probably better, but not by a massive amount.  Both classes have comps they can do very well in.

Even if Warlocks were massively stronger than Hunters, the best course of action is not to just take one area where they are different than Hunters and simply make them the same.  There are much better fixes that you could do to balance the game, while still keeping different classes feeling different.  I don't want every caster spec to be a tmorphed Hunter, and you shouldn't want that either.

Until they fix fear / polymorph / clone those classes CC chains are truly wild. All of those classes are extremely strong in every area of the game I don't have to go over every single part of the class. Anyone who plays high rated knows this and if you disagree then you simply don't want these balance changes made to the benefit of yourself.

Do I want every CC chain to be like a hunters? NO I never said such a thing. Do I want them to be balanced yes. They can still retain their mechanical characteristics but they need to have cool downs put onto them to resemble dispel being an 8 second cool down. All CC chains revolve around a healer being able to break these effects that was changed in mop so every single thing linked to that needs to be examined and changed. Poly/Fear/Clone was not looked at and not changed.

#4111568 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted Pouncedd on 30 April 2014 - 10:20 PM

View PostPersephones, on 30 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

Putting a CD on castable CC would result in more of the, considered, "retard hunter gameplay", in other words: Every game would be about throwing a sequence of CC at the healer while tunneling one guy from start till end.

Being able to "freely" CC someone (due to no CD) creates for interesting gameplay. You can react to other people's actions, i.e if a rogue used cloak offensively or someone trinketed. If there was a longer CD on CC, you wouldn't see it being used on non healers just like you don't really see people use traps or similar on nonhealers unless shit truly hits the fan.

And PS, why the fuck don't you guys go visit mmo-champion.com more often and read about changes for other classes than your own. I swear 99% of the complains in this thread are solved come WoD. Of course they can't make major changes this late in MoP, so you'll have to wait just a little longer.

See that's the thing your wrong about. As a hunter you have to make the choice of peeling for a teammate or CCing a healing. You can't have it both ways so why should a mage,warlock,druid have it like this? I'm not saying hunter's are the only ones with this dilemma I'm just using it as an example. Yes my class can do straight forward, high consistent damage compared to something like a mage who has to setup every 20 seconds or so with fingers and what not but that doesn't mean it's a retarded class does it?

If I'm in trouble as a hunter and need to use my CC to peel I have ONE chance to not fuck it up ......... ONE. Every other caster I've listed has an infinite number of chances to get their full duration 8 second CC off.

There is no way around it after all said and done, interrupts used and trinkets burned casters still have five times the chance to land a full CC than a hunter ever will and honestly it is not balanced.

If an LSD even smells a wiff of their partner dying for example the lock immediately just casting fear not even waiting for trinkets or anything just fear fear fear fear fear fear. And if it's the lock who is getting trained he just ports away/gates away and fears all day along with his druid spamming clone with no break in between.

Mages also love doing this. they see some big mongo cool down then they poly poly poly poly until their target is immune. There goes dispel there goes trinket but wait one more poly for 2 seconds along with something from your teammates off of it or even something else from you? Maybe a deep freeze.

I really can't believe people still argue how it is balanced when if you lay it out on paper the amount of CC and control named wizards have over an enemy team is far far superior.

#4114364 Some tweets about WoD ret

Posted zenton on 05 May 2014 - 07:25 PM

View Postshackalackin, on 04 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

Like I said, I don't imagine it happens much at all (if at all), but it's an OPTION. By all means, if you're all so unhappy you're more than welcome to ditch the dispel and go back to just having the dmg reduction/transfer. This is why this game is so busted, people just keep asking for more and more stuff to add to their arsenal as opposed to fixing the problem (reduction of instant, magical cc like in wod) so it becomes an arms race. You guys used to just have sac as is, now it's a magic dispel, now you want more (the two abilities separated, but keeping both). It's silly

Dont take this as offense but..

You still don't get the whole point of it. Noone wants iwin buttons or another filler spell. We want our class to do A) more FLOW on the gameplay and more CONTROL over fights or B ) restoring the old "riposter supporter" idea of the spec meaning being tanky/effective selfhealer, supportive, having unique, evening-the-scales buffs and reasonable offheal. No matter of your arguments (wich may be realistic in a feral or in an affliction tread) rets can perform neither of the above mentioned unless you got a hunter and a restosham to literally carry you. The spec is simply not viable. Neither in RBGs. Neither in Arenas. Period.

None of us asks for an overpowered Hand of Sacrifice, or 1 min cd bubble or spammable instant flash. We only want rets to be viable. Nothing less, nothing more.