Jump to content

Bigmoran

Member Since 28 Apr 2012
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 07:07 PM
****-

Posts I've Made

In Topic: RBG Tournament: Battle of the Atlantic Worlds Reveal Show

Yesterday, 05:30 PM

It's actually quite disgusting to read a lot of these posts.

For one thing, RBGs are significantly more complex than arenas. Team fights involve the exact same mechanics that are used in 3v3. There is cross CC, swapping, peeling, pulling back, pushing in, etc. Meanwhile there are multiple smaller game decisions being made on spot--who to send to what base, who is going to float where, when are we going to push O, and so on. It is really a mentally engaging experience. When two top teams face each other, it is literally a battle of wits for 20 minutes straight.

I don't know why there is such a stigma in this community against them. DDOSing is as common in RBGs as it is in 3v3 arena. DDOSing and exploiting at the highest levels is almost nonexistant.

Stop being so toxic and help promote an event that the community en mass can actually enjoy.

In Topic: Compliment Thread

22 January 2015 - 02:36 AM

I used to think Gorecke was a scumbag no good hunter who got carried by his class. Even though I still think he is cautious of me, he is quite a swell dude and a pretty good multiclasser.

In Topic: On the topic of Rdruids being 'too strong'

20 January 2015 - 05:43 PM

I've found that the general consensus of players that play the following classes;

- Shaman (Ele or Resto)
- Priest ( All specs)
- A range of DPS specs

Is that Resto Druids HoTs are ' too strong'.

Bare with me while we do some number crunching.

Rejuvenation - Heals for 228% of Spell Power over 12 sec + 3 sec with Germination. Lets say we are using a base of 5,000 Spell Power. That gets us 11,400 * 2 over 15 seconds. End result; 22,800. Lets say, for some reason, you are running 30% Mastery. That gives us 14,820 * 2 = 29,640 Healing over 15 seconds.


Lifebloom - Heals 550% of Spell Power (27,500) over 15 sec. and instantly heals for 201% (10,050) of Spell power when bloomed or dispelled. A total of 37, 550 healing IF it lasts the entire duration. In most cases, it will not.


We'll stop here for a moment; if these HoTs have a full duration we reach a grand total of 67,190 Healing when the 15 sec mark has been hit. This equals out to be about 2 Colossal Smash + Mortal Strike combos (not including Auto Attacks), or 1-2 simple DK rotations.

Now let's take a look at Regrowth. At about 4,300-5,000 Spell Power you will see a maximum regular Regrowth hit for 20-26k, and a crit of 30-33k. Which again, is completely negated by 1-2 simple Warrior or Death Knight rotations (without procs or auto attacks being added in).


So, lets take a look at SotF proc + NS Regrowth with roughly 5,000 Spell Power. The highest possible with a crit is 100k, the lowest possible is roughly 50k healing on a 1 minute cooldown.


Adding these totals, assuming nothing is getting dispelled which is not realistic in a PvP scenario, Non crit total while using SotF + NS Regrowth + Full duration 2x Rejuv + Full duration Lifebloom = 117,190 healing with roughly 5,000 Spell Power. 67,190 of this number is over a 15 second period, 50,000 of this healing is on a 1 minute cooldown. Crit total while using SotF + NS Regrowth + Full duration 2x Rejuv & Lifebloom = 167,190 healing over 15 seconds + 1 min CD.

This means every one minute Resto Druids have a possibility of roughly 167,190 healing if nothing gets dispelled and they get a crit from both their Swiftmend & NS Regrowth. In their downtime they have a possibility of 67,190 healing over 15 seconds (if nothing is dispelled) + 20-26k 1.2-1.4 second cast time Regrowths.

Regrowth costs 5,962 mana, which means a Resto Druid can cast roughly 30-40 Regrowths in a row before going OOM, this is not including the mana spent on keeping Rejuv and Lifebloom on the friendly targets.

Now, lets say we're in a situation where the said Resto Druid is not allowed to cast (which is any where from 50-80% IF you're so bad that you can't fake interrupts). The Resto Druid will spend 13,472 mana on casting 2x Rejuv + Genesis every 3-4 seconds. The said Resto Druid can do this roughly 12-15 times before going completely OOM, this does not account for the small amount of mana re-casting Lifebloom costs. The said Resto Druid is spending roughly 13,472 mana to push out 29,640 Healing over a 6-8 second period. It would take the Resto Druid about 90-120 seconds of doing this to go completely OOM. (Not including Lifeblooms mana cost)

In situations where the Resto Druids healing cannot keep up with the damage output, let's say against TSG, Beastcleave, Thugcleave, etc, the Resto Druid would have to use a combination of both 2x Rejuv + Genesis spam and Regrowth in order to buy enough time for CC to be applied so that the said Resto Druid can keep up with the damage output. Again, we're not factoring in the fact that the comps above will clean their targets, which will decrease the numbers above by a significant amount as well as increase the amount of mana spent/time until OOM. The Resto Druid would have to inefficiently use mana in order to attempt to contest the damage being put out, whereas other healers can simply fake an interrupt and triple the amount of healing the Resto Druid can put out in a 1.1-2 second cast.

HoTs cannot be faked, like a HoC (Heal on Cast) can be. HoTs can be immediately cleaned from the target, by a multitude of classes, completely negating the healing from the Resto Druid. The Resto Druid can contest or nearly contest the amount of damage (or healing from a different class) being put out every 1 minute with the use of a 12 second & 1 minute cooldown with crits & mastery proc already applied. This means a Resto Druid can contest the amount of damage that most DPS classes can put out every 1 minute, instantly, but during the downtime of that CD they will be struggling to keep up. While different class(es), no fingers being pointed here, can fake an interrupt or two (easily if the player knows whether or not the interrupts are on/off CD) and completely topple the said Resto Druids healing over a 15 sec period of time + the use of a 1 minute CD in a 1.1-2 second cast.


We can take a look at a Resto Druids means of escape, or the ability to kite to make things fair as well. Resto Druids have 2 CD's (Displacer Beast 30 sec CD & Stampeding Roar 2 min CD) that can assist in escaping a melee classes grasp or 1 CD on a 30 second cooldown to out range a caster classes CC. There is currently only one other class with the ability to do this, MW Monks. Resto Shamans/Disc Priest/ Holy Palys do not have the ability to do so. But, we are looking at a pure healing numbers scenario here since the notation that Resto Druids 'do not have to cast' in order to keep up with damage has become to popular.


When we look at the damage output from every DPS spec in WoW currently, we will see that only 2-3 specs could possibly not out damage a Resto Druid that is refusing to cast.
- Elemental Shamans
- Frost Mage w/no procs or CDs
- Glad Stance Warrior & [WW Monk Maybe?]

Every other DPS spec can easily out damage a Resto Druid that is refusing to cast, forcing the said Resto Druid to heal inefficiently and go OOM with in a 120 sec window.


I've recently switched to a Resto Druid (about a month ago), after playing Disc Priest/Resto Shaman for several years and after doing the numbers + playing one myself I don't really see the hype around them outside of the fact that they can escape every 30 & 120 seconds. But, during the downtime of their CD's, which is a long window of time mind you, they cannot keep up with damage output from nearly every single DPS class. Overall, they're a decent class but I can't help to notice that a good (meaning they can actually fake interrupt & position themselves properly) MW Monk, Resto Shaman and even a Holy Pally can deal with more overall pressure than a Resto Druid can.


So after seeing the numbers, why exactly are people so hyped & angry over Resto Druids being so 'imba' even though a DPS that actually knows how to play their class can put out more damage than a Resto Druid can heal?

By looking at numbers it may seem like Resto Druid healing doesn't do that much, but I would say that it rather proves that it is not easy to create a realistic scenario by simply using theory. There are a lot of factors that are not taken into account when you are comparing healing to damage.

- While you are correct in that HoTs will not be able to outheal the damage when your opponents are sitting on a teammate 100% of the game, you have to take into account kiting abilities and peels. The moment your teammate (or you yourself) get away, your heals will heal them back up again. For instance, meeles will suffer from roots, slows and clones while trying to attack their target and during this time your hots will continute to heal your teammates back up again. They also continue to heal while you are put into CC which means that not only can you avoid CC fairly easy but even if you are put into them the effect is greatly reduced compared to other healers. Furthermore, hots counters spread pressure teams greatly as you can keep hots up on all 3 targets in an arena without losing too many globals to heal their main target.

- When it comes to NS you are forgetting the Living Seed passive which basically increases the healing of your crit heals by 50%. This means that, assuming you crit for 100k, the next time your teammate is hit he will be healed for an additional 50k.

- Of course a Resto druid will drop when being trained. The point is however that if your opponents are training you they are leaving your teammates free to do whatever they like. Sure, you will lose mana a lot faster than if they were on your teammates, but the other team is putting themselves on a timer as they will have to overextend to reach you and will have to burn through defensives fast. As a result, the increased mana consumption will not matter as healer training games are generally very short compared to dps training games.

- When it comes to your comparison to MW monks, their mobility is not better than druids. You are correct in that monks has 2 rolls, a port and a root removal that can be used about as often as a druid blink but you are ignoring the fact that druids can shapeshift out of roots which gives them a lot better mobility. Monks also has amongst the weakest instant heals in the game which means that they have to stop for a second every time they want to heal. A resto druid can continue to run while healing which is a huge deal.

- You also forget to mention Ironbark and Barkskin which are huge short cooldown abilities. If you are being trained you basically have a PS every minute, but with 5% more damage reduction and 25% less chance to be crit if you play with the glyph. Oh and they are both useable when silenced and Barkskin when stunned as well.

- As for offensive dispels, they are the only thing that keeps druids even remotely in check at the moment. The sad reality is that even if you ignore hots, Regrowth heals for about as much as any other 1,5 sec cast heal - more than Paladins and slightly less than shamans (if you don't count the Unleash heal ofc) - while at the same time having all those hots as well. And as for the mana part, Regrowth is actually the cheapest of all fast cast heals, with Flash of Light at 6400, Healing Surge and Flash Heal at 6624 and Surging Mist at 7520.

TL:DR- they have about the same healing from casted heals as other healers- but at a lower mana cost, better instant casts, better mobility, only healer with spammable CC that can't even be dispelled without MD, Bear form to protect them from meeles and strong, the ability to shapeshift to protect them from polymorph and hex (with no cd) as well as short cooldown defensives with Barkskin, Ironbark and NS (which is basically a LoH- quite interesting that LoH is still not useable in arenas when both shamans, druids and monks seems to have it these days).
So no, people are not overestimating Druids.

Again, from a Priest/Shaman mains perspective it seems like L2P issues. Resto Druids have had the exact same mobility (except for Blink/Roar) for 4-5 expansions. They were actually immune to Poly/Hex in WotLK, but we just adjusted our playstyle when we faced a druid, literally dispelling every HoT that gets applied and even running at them the entire game spamming Purge. This applies to the current expansion, MoP, and Cata.

In fact, in the current expansion if you are playing a viable comp a Resto Druid can literally do nothing against proper Resto Shaman play, except for maybe spamming Lifebloom + shifting every 5 sec with Shapemender glyph. Some could argue, 'oh well that leaves you open for the druids DPS to go HAM on you' but in reality they will or should be more worried about the DPS that are now able to eat their druid alive even through the oh so powerful bear form (lol)

The issue with Druids is that people haven't had to play like this either in their entire career (new players) or in a good amount of years. In fact it seemed like last night Cdew had never seen WotLK, and had just discovered proper Resto Shaman vs Resto Druid play. Only further supporting my L2P (or more nicely put, old meta playstyle) issues.



On the topic of their HoCs, Resto Druid has always and will always have the lowest on cast heals. When playing my Resto Shaman of equal (actually 3 pieces more) gear it takes me one 1.5 sec cast to bring my teammate from 40% to 100%, whereas on my Resto Druid I could literally spam Regrowth endlessly and never top my teammate off IF the DPS classes are viable, not in greens, and actually know how to play their class. My priest on the other hand... Yeah we won't even get into how bad that is right now. But from my personal experience I can tell you that you are very very wrong, a single cast from a Resto Shaman can reach upwards of 200k. While Resto Shamans don't have the mobility, defensive CD's or spammable CC, all this means is that the playstyle of the class is not the same. Attempting to play each class in the same manner will never bring the same results, if I attempt to play a Resto Druid like you're suppose to play a Resto Shaman, the enemy team will probably laugh their asses off because I have no purpose chasing their healer around with my DPS sitting on him. Or if I attempt to play a Resto Druid like a Holy Pally, literally PvE healing, I will not be able to keep up with the damage output. So on and so forth.


I really want to believe that Resto Druids are the OP gods that everyone wishes they were, but I literally have yet to lose to a Resto Druid team while playing my shaman. I find it amusing that people even give the class respect, they're so easily counterable. When I play my druid, I find that if the enemy team has a clue about how to counter play a Resto Druid there will be little to nothing myself or my teammates can do about it.


It really does feel like everyone has forgotten how to deal with druids and instead just cry their eyes out over not being able to fotm the shit out of druids. The day Resto Druids have no brainless counter play, I'll jump on the bandwagon and actually main my druid and delete my shaman. Until then, I'll keep wondering why everyone is so mad.

I'll take a stance of understanding, seeing as 90% of the Arena community are holier than thou no matter the case. Yourself obviously cannot read, you also don't even realize that nearly every viable comp currently is running at least one offensive dispel, nor do you even realize why other healing classes aren't being QQ'd about so often. You let your rage get to your head and follow the rest of the sheep.

The thing is that most, if not all, players refuse to take a step back and look through the eyes of the others (actually doing the numbers, watching top druids, and playing one themselves). If top druids flop, or cannot contest damage out put.... are they bad? Are they 1200 heroes that bought 2.7k+? Is it a L2P issue that they have? Or, is it an increase of damage but a decrease in healing? Is it an issue with DPS, or an issue with the player themselves? Unfortunately, judging by your holier than thou attitude, you probably have never even taken the time to watch a top 3 druid get killed through skin + full HoTs within the first 30 seconds of a game, nor do you have even remotely enough skill & knowledge of your class to do what even top 100 DPS players can do.


Before I even began to level my druid and put my shaman to the side, I took maybe an hour out of my day for roughly 1 week before I went to sleep or before I went to class to watch a top druid play. When I was able to see that the issue wasn't that Druids needed nerfed and rather other healing classes needed buffed, I began leveling my druid (a month ago) and decided to see what other classes needed to match what a Druid currently has.

In theory, yes a Shaman can spam dispels on the Druid and prevent him to heal. However, if you can spam dispels in the manner you are describing it sounds like the Druid team puts up no pressure at all. You cannot as a Resto Shaman run into the face of the other team and spam purge without being punished for it (at least not against any decent team). The way you say it, it sounds like you feel like a Resto Shaman team would win the healer train race vs a Druid, something which I frankly just can't see. Against any decent team you would be lucky to even get a single spare global to purge (assuming that we are talking about a healer train race), let alone that the druid is kind enough to stay in your LoS for you to do it.

As for having the same toolkit, this is part of the problem. Every other healer apart from druids has had their instant healing nerfed to the ground (cast times on key spells for priests/paladins, full rework of monk healing and greatly reduced effect of Healing Stream totem, especially as the glyph is useless so anything can oneshot it). Druids on the other hand lost close to nothing. Instead, they GAINED a new instant cast heal through Germination. When new expansions come out "the same toolkit" can suddenly turn from being mediocre or even bad to being insanely overpowered, simply because how other specs has been changed. Just look at combat, it had 8 second kidneys for 2 expacs, red buff for as long and single target KS for all of MoP, yet it isn't before now that combat has finally started to shine and is now considered one of the best dps specs in the game for PvP.

The "clearly l2p issue" argument about how people just don't know how to deal with classes is very old and has been used as a defense for so many stupid things, from warrior 5stack Taste for Blood in MoP to Ret Paladins at the start of WoD. In general, if the majority of the high end arena community agrees that a class is retarded, it is most likely NOT a l2p issue even though it may seem so from your point of view (obviously you shouldn't just blindly listen to what somebody say because they are a gladiator, but in general, if there is consensus amongst top PvPers it is a sign that something is not right with the class).

As for Shamans big heals, I explicitly said that I was NOT counting the Unleash Elements heal. Shaman healing outside of that one big heal is actually surprisingly low and I am forced to spam Healing Surges in order to top somebody when Unleash is on cooldown (same thing if you watch Cdews stream for instance).

When it comes to playstyle difference between classes, it is actually one of the things that makes Druids so strong right now. You can literally play the class at high rating more or less the same way as you would a Shaman or Paladin, max range and never cloning, just healing the entire time simply because their healing output is so high. I can't speak for others, but personally it makes me really annoyed to see people play resto druid without even learning their class properly and still do well.

And as for Bear Form, I honestly don't understand what you mean with your "lol". Check the armour difference between when you are in Bear Form and when you are in caster form. Bear Form is literally a 20% reduction to physical damage. That is an Ironbark with no cooldown that you can put up whenever you want, even when you are silenced or locked on school because you forgot that you were a Druid and tried to use a casted spell. It may have been a joke in the past, but it is a seriously powerful tool to deal with meeles in the current state of the game.

I hate rating bashing and I am a firm believer that low rated players can have a good understanding of the game, however there is no avoiding that some of the stuff you say, such as "I literally have yet to lose to a Resto Druid team" is hard to take as a sign of resto druids being bad when you (at least according to your AJ profile) are fighting people at 1400 rating. No offense, but that is not a rating that is representative for arenas as a whole which makes the argument lack in credibility.

In Topic: [Bigmoran Video] Kaska 2: Resolved

19 January 2015 - 12:09 AM

View PostBraindance, on 18 January 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

Greece deserves to burn

FTFY

In Topic: so fun getting ddosed

18 January 2015 - 07:17 PM

Proxy up.

<