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Baht

Member Since 11 Apr 2012
Offline Last Active May 18 2015 11:33 PM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: The game is way too dumbed down these days

28 April 2015 - 02:42 PM

View Postzzatbrah, on 28 April 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

fighting games arent that balanced. theyre actually kinda retarded and stagnant for sometimes long ass times.
the skillcap is just fucking massive so tier lists won't matter until it's top 20-30 players in the world playing each other
and even then shit is still winnable. although even something like street fighter every character has horrible and really good match ups

While I agree with you, you can hardly deny his point about gameplay options and variation with a much more limited skillset.


I wrote this over like 3-4 breaks in work so might've lost track of what i was writing halfway through. Hopes it makes some sense.

Another thing I think most people overlook when hating on ability pruning is why they dont like it. When you get to the core of it, the issue isn't really that you have fewer abilities but that those abilities doesn't have enough impact individually. I realise most of the abilities players are missing are utility, but it's easier to explain with dmg abilities. If you have 10 different dmg abilities with different priorities, I think most people feel like each keypress is more significant than if you had 3 even if the overall dmg is the same. This is because 1) There's is more things to keep track of and occupy your mind, and 2) The added dmg from executing your dmg properly is more obvious. While this makes the game feel less passive it's a trap and creates it's own issues. I played ele blast all of mop despite unleash being better because while ele blast had its obvious flaws, being able to reliably have significant impact on the game every 15sec was more fun than mindlessly pressing the same button and hope something happened. So when everyone is complaining about ability pruning and the game being too dumped down, I think what they're really trying to say is that they dont feel like they have a large enough impact on the game. Designing the game to make each individual ability more meaningful is the way to go.
If every ability, and therefore gcd, have a larger effect on the game pvp would seem faster faced and reduce a lot of the rock/paper/scissor of arena, because reacting faster and correctly to the enemy becomes more important. Easy things to do to improve this is reducing the amount and power of cds, while increasing the power of frequently used abilities.

Amount of cds:
Imo the main problem with the amout of cds is with defensives. Almost no dps specs should have more than 1 significant defensive cd. Spriest is well designed in regards to that in my opinion. They have 1 significant defensive cd, disperse, and a short cd weaker defensive, guise or fade or whatever.
Disperse will almost always save them but without resetting the game because they wont be fine if they get cloned, or their healer sits cc, for the duration of it. They also cant pop it mindlessly while counter pressuring because, unlike cds a la die by the sword, because it has an offensive tradeoff. Besides disperse they have a weaker and shorter cd defensive, fade or guise. Ideally they should only have 1 small cd instead of 2, but because guiseing to avoid dmg makes it quite a lot harder to get fears, and the dmg reduction from fade being a glyph, it works out alright. You could argue that we shouldnt the shorter cd defensives, but imo having a small cd that wont really save you vs significant dmg but lets you react to minor rng streaks is one of the few cases where pressing a less impactful ability feels good and reassuring, even though im completely contradicting the rest of my post.
An example of a poorly designed defensive, imo, is survival instincts. because it has 2 charges and can be popped with no trade off in pressure or mobility or anything. One of the main issues with having multiple defensives, or defensives with charges, on a dps spec is being able to chain them, or use them within a short time of each other. Between that and trinket and your healers trinket and his cds and your other dps's peels you'll rarely run out of cds if you rotate them properly. This, and the fact that you're not sacrificing pressure or anything else, encourages mindlessly popping a cd without judging the situation, if you take any kind of significant dmg, and makes it harder to punish ppl for wasting their defensives.

Power of cds:
While the key issue with the amount of cds is mostly defensives, for power of cds it's mainly offensives. Reducing the amount of defensive cds without reducing the power of offensive cds would result in trading cds by default, which makes the offensive and defensive cd irrelevant since neither will have an impact on the match. Therefore reducing the power of offensive cds is needed so that they can be dealt with by other means by outplaying your opponents.
For example as ele shaman vs godcomp back when deep was used on kill target. Say the godcomp landed some cc on your healer and go for kill, the proper scenario should be something along the lines of: they land the deep on the shaman and probably some cross cc on shamans other teammate. The godcomp pops offensives and the shaman and his healer doesnt have a trinket and at least 1 significant cd, that should be kill. However if the shaman manages the ground the deep and maybe interrupt a sheep for his teammate he should be able to live for a reasonable amount of time with just his small cd and some peels. Sham rage is a bit in between significant and small cd imo because unlike disperse it should definitely be possible to kill through sham rage but it shouldnt be worth it to tunnel through without giving a fuck. The bad scenario without reducing power of offensive cds would be that the dmg from the cds is so high that healer and/or shaman instantly pops their significant cds/trinkets regardless of the grounded deep and stopped cc.

Increasing the power of frequently used abilities:
By frequently used abilities i dont mean lava burst or shred, but short cd reliable dmg/healing increases like unleash, ele blast or swiftmend. The main focus for this should allow almost everyone to deal a reliably increased amount of dmg frequently, but not repeatedly. Ideally it would be different abilities buffing each other to increase your options for how to deliver your healing/dmg and make it feel different than just pressing a harder hitting version of your filler ability. They should also have some kind of downside as well, forcing you to hardcast or losing a small amount of sustained dmg.
Lets do another ele shaman example: Ele blast is 12sec cd, unleash is 15sec cd and lava burst might as well have 0 because of the procs. Unleash gives a 40% dmg increase to the next fire spell, but its consumed at the end of the cast so if you use your unleash and then cast a spell while doing an instant just as the cast ends both get the 40% increase. Ele blast, while elemental dmg, is affected by unleash. So every 15sec you can do a eleblast+lava burst both dealing 40% extra dmg. This is enough of an increase to have a meaningful impact on the game without being super frustrating to play against because while it's quite a chunk of dmg you have no way to repeat it more often than 15sec cause you're limited by the unleash cd. Imo this is a good mechanic because you sacrifice a little sustained, mobility and leaves you vulnerable to interrupts, for the extra burst. You could argue that there's no reason for lava burst to be in that burst "rotation", then fix unleash to only affect first spell and leave it at unleash+ele blast. I think including lava burst has benefits though. First of all because lava burst is 100% crit it reduces the dmg range of the burst so it's easier to balance for being significant without 1 shotting, but it also forces you think slightly more about when you're using your lava bursts, adds another way to reduce the burst (purging the proc) and makes it slightly less trivial to set up(very little with the amount of procs you get, but more on that later).
Another good example of this kind would be back when mages were novaing someone to shatter them with frostbolt+lance. Again, sacrifice some mobility and leaves you open to interrupt, and in this case a root, for some extra dmg. With this combination again, you're limited by one of the abilities cd, nova, and thus cant just spam the extra dmg.

While i dont know how big of an issue that is for other classes, the frequency of procs is also way to high. i'd rather see lava burst hitting slightly harder and then reduce the proc chance to half of what it is currently. depending on how much the dmg is buffed, you might have to put a 2-3sec icd on the proc though to prevent stupid dmg on lucky streaks. Lava burst especially is an ability that has had its impact reduced greatly every expansion since it was introduced. Im not saying we should go back to it hitting as hard as it did in wotlk, but surely a middle ground could be found. Though i assume one of the biggest reasons it has ended where it is though, is pve with only 1 flame shock up isnt getting that many procs while in arena you'll often have 5 flame shock up.

Obviously there's a ton more things to do, but those are easy ones that would go a long way imo.
If done right each spec would probably the same or less abilities than now, but feel less passive. I also think it would shift the meta to a playstyle i personally find more fun.

[TL:DR]
The biggest reason people feel like the game is being dumped down and complain about ability pruning has less to do with ability pruning, but more to do with the fact that each individual ability doesnt have a big enough impact on a game.

In Topic: 6.2 patch notes

16 April 2015 - 12:20 PM

View PostRailander, on 16 April 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

depends on what your definition of 'consequences' are.
if by 'consequence' you mean possibly the only spec in the game that when interrupted on ANY cast can only MOVE and AUTOATTACK, i'd say there is enough.

not really sure if you're being serious about that...

Think paladins are in the same boat, but yea it's pretty rough.

In Topic: 10% dmg nerf reverted

19 March 2015 - 01:21 PM

View PostCall Me Teranaye, on 19 March 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

i'm talking from a SV perspective,BM should be completely removed from the game x).

Doesnt the crows scale with bm mastery though? which is why everyone is complaining

In Topic: AT Cata is back

19 March 2015 - 01:16 PM

View PostRedefined, on 18 March 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Because I quit 2 weeks into MoP because of how bad it was.

The first season of WoD is x10 better than the first season of MoP, imo.

You rated mop as the worst expansion based on playing it for 2 weeks in the first season? First season in an expansion is more or less extended beta and shouldn't be taken into consideration when judging the entire expansion, and in 2 weeks people barely have time to figure out how to play the game after the changes. S5, s9, s12, s16 have all been broken. I do agree that s12 was worse than s16 is though.

In Topic: Proc or on use trinket in 6.1?

19 March 2015 - 12:47 PM

[quote name='Bajawah' timestamp='1426278803' post='4400160']
I'm currently Night Elf(NE), but thinking of going human for the double trinkets.

Is it really that overpowered? Or is it overblown?
  • When human, can you use two of the same trinket? On wowhead they don't show as unique.

  • Do you still get the -15% damage reduction set bonus?

  • What are the thoughts on Strength vs Mastery trinkets?

  • Has anyone tried dual passive vs dual active? One is clearly RNG where there other is burst, but I'm curious on personal experiences using either.
Thank you for your time.
[/quote]

I don't know if they've changed trinket behavior since mop, I don't think they have, and this is it how it used to work:

1. The trinkets are not unique and you can equip two of the same ones.

2. I don't know whether you get the dmg reduction or not, but I don't see why you wouldn't since humans get the dmg reduction with double dps trinkets.

4. The reason you don't see ppl using double on use or double proc trinket, at least not double current season, is because they share either cd or proc. For the on use trinkets that means both going on cd when you use one of them. For the proc trinkets it means the procs wont stack, so if one of your trinkets proc and the other one procs 2 sec later the buff will just be refreshed. With the trinkets having so high proc chance and the same icd it'll result in the buffs overlapping every time. While it might give you a few seconds increased duration the benefit isn't nearly enough to justify getting the double proc instead of proc + on use.
Occasionally you will see someone using current season trinket + honor trinket of the same kind. That works because the procs and trinkets have different ID so they'll act like 2 different trinkets. I think using an on use trinket puts every other on use trinket on a 30sec cd though to prevent them stacking, but you can stack the proc trinkets.

I disagree with you on calling proc trinkets RNG and on use trinkets burst. The on use trinkets provides on demand burst sure, but the proc trinkets are very predictable with 25% proc chance from all sources(dot ticks, hot ticks, abilities, white hits, everything) and a fixed ICD. You'll almost always get a proc within a few seconds after ICD. The choice between on use and proc isn't between burst or sustained, it's between a dmg increase with longer cd that you can hold in case you don't want the dmg right away, and a dmg increase more frequently that'll proc whether you're ready or not.
For warriors this patch I'd personally recommend the proc trinket if you're not human, because the ICD now lines up perfectly with avatar giving you beyond stupid dmg every 1.5min.

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