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djp771133

Member Since 03 Mar 2012
Offline Last Active Feb 18 2015 01:34 AM
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#4347395 Deep Freeze breaking only from Ice Lance damage 6.1

Posted jaimex on 10 January 2015 - 11:19 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 10 January 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

quotes like this are what makes people think all mages are retards. if you wana be a wod one shot god then reroll frost dk now or elemental shaman and wait for higher ilvl gear

hehehe!! ele one shot god xD!!! hehe i do nothing and win hahaha eeyyy i just rape mages all day hahah my class is so op!! haha :)


ayy lmao


#4347368 Deep Freeze breaking only from Ice Lance damage 6.1

Posted Kelarm on 10 January 2015 - 11:04 PM

View PostCharred, on 10 January 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

We aren't fine.

If you don't spec Ice Nova, which is a stupid spell to begin with, we have barely any damage. How can you possibly claim that's it's fine when an entire class' viability depends of a single talent?


As I said to some other guy, mages work in godcomp/RMD right now, because we're one of the hardest to kill classes. Pair the hardest to kill class with the best healer & it's inevitably going to work. You don't see any other magecombos at high rating for a reason.


Godcomp/RMD might be really strong right now, but that says more about the combo & restodruids. If these combos work with how mages are right now, imagine what they'll be like when mages are actually good again.


I'm pretty sure that guy was speaking from a balance standpoint when he said mages are fine.  Balance and design are 2 very different and almost entirely separate concepts.  Things can have horrible design and still be balanced, they can have great design and be weak, etc.  These changes are large buffs, which indicate that Blizzard has been convinced that mages are not strong enough.

Mages are NOT weak right now.  That's a fact.  RMD and god comp are easily 2 of the strongest comps in the game.  In fact, RMD very well may be the strongest comp in the game right now.  You can't just blame resto druids for how strong these comps are, you sound like that retarded hunter who said the vast number of overpowered hunter/x/x comps are overpowered because of the other dps class, never the hunter.  It's just shit logic, nonsense.  The comp is strong because mages are strong, druids are strong, and rogues are strong.  The rest comes from the great synergy between the classes, because I'm not going to sit here and pretend mages are on the level of hunters, dks, ferals, etc.  But you ABSOLUTELY do not need buffs, those classes just need nerfs.  Design changes, yes, but what is listed here is just big, straight buffs.  I don't expect to see a lot of agreement with this on the mage forum, but it needs to be said.

Some of you did a really great job pretending your class was weak though and got the community behind it, so gj on that I guess.  Can't say I didn't see this one coming.  It looks like god comp and mage/rogue/healer will be extremely dominant next season.


#4335255 Holinka came through. Combat fixed!

Posted joefernandes on 06 January 2015 - 01:36 PM

  • Combat
    • [Currently in testing] Combat Rogues now have 7% more Attack Power
Posted Image


#4335225 Holinka came through. Combat fixed!

Posted Clamnesia on 06 January 2015 - 01:17 PM

I mean, maybe im stupid... But cant they just make revealing strike or whatever where it DOESNT effect kidney shot? Wouldnt the class be "fixed" then?


#4335210 Holinka came through. Combat fixed!

Posted Hobbesqt on 06 January 2015 - 01:10 PM

View Postedladd, on 06 January 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Rogues needed buffs in PVE, so there is no way they were ever going to be nerfed for PVP.

Also, I don't get the impression that Combat is OP in high level PVP.  Rogues are underperforming in PVP generally now aren't they?  The reason people want it nerfed is because they prefer the playstlye of the other specs and are currently feeling forced to Combat in order to be even slightly relevent.

Combat needs a redesign, and they've already stated they are not going to redesign between major patches.  It's not impossible though, if they believe it's a problem.

If I'm missing the point here, don't hate me!  Just offering my take on this.

I'll bite.
  • Rogue representation is pretty high in arena (the only dps specs higher are rets, aff lock, and surv hunter), but that isn't the statistic to look at. What is important is the trend over time. Rogues are historically represented very low in arena, due to a variety of arguable reasons (high skillcap, playstyle, and so on). Currently, their representation has been rising steadily over time, and you can expect the trend to continue, or even rise due to these buffs (they were needed for pve, I know. Calm your tits). I would link the arenamate graphs, but they are buggy atm.
  • The skillcap of a combat rogue is very, very low, and therefore you can have any random person that has leveled a rogue reach some modicum of success with the class. They normally wouldn't be able to do this with another class, and definitely not rogues. Due to this, all of the general annoyances people have about rogues (stealth mechanic, control, mobility etc) are exasperated and annoy people even more.
These two reasons are why you see the hate on combat right now. Low skillcap combined with a naturally obnoxious class (don't roast me for calling the playstyle what it is, because I love the playstyle and will only ever play rogue/feral type classes in MMOs) lead to massive nerf request threads.


#4335195 Holinka came through. Combat fixed!

Posted Marshmellow on 06 January 2015 - 12:56 PM

View Postedladd, on 06 January 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Rogues needed buffs in PVE, so there is no way they were ever going to be nerfed for PVP.

Also, I don't get the impression that Combat is OP in high level PVP.  Rogues are underperforming in PVP generally now aren't they?  The reason people want it nerfed is because they prefer the playstlye of the other specs and are currently feeling forced to Combat in order to be even slightly relevent.

Combat needs a redesign, and they've already stated they are not going to redesign between major patches.  It's not impossible though, if they believe it's a problem.

If I'm missing the point here, don't hate me!  Just offering my take on this.

there should be an IQ test when you try to make an AJ account


#4334247 Combat rogues buffed

Posted Marshmellow on 06 January 2015 - 02:22 AM

"As a game designer I felt that combat rogues were under performing in Ashran"


#4334652 Holinka came through. Combat fixed!

Posted Braindance on 06 January 2015 - 06:39 AM

View PostVaneesh, on 06 January 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

The point is that this "absolute" 5% does not translate to anything impactful in most competitive PvP scenarios for reasons which might be tough to put on paper, but are present nonetheless.


You could still DPS, but you would not be able to Tank. The point is that you are comparing apples with oranges, since Glad warriors by default are able to fill 2 different kinds of raid spots.

A nerfed Kidney would annihilate Combat in any and all rated PvP scenarios. Glad Warriors actually still bring sufficient utility to be brought into larger PvP skirmishes, where they still fit into the current "train" meta more than any Rogue could hope to (if Blizz were to take the easy road and gut Kidney with no compensation).

You came into this thread, on the Rogue forums, for the wrong reasons. The problem is that then you fuel all the knee-jerking with lolinternet arguments when you clearly haven't touched a Rogue in a while. In this context, you are in the wrong and no amount of theory will turn your shitposts into valid arguments. What is the motivation behind your plea?

Wait and see how it pans out.
hahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha


#4299335 Your most hated ability ingame

Posted Miixzy on 15 December 2014 - 05:33 AM

Burst of Speed


#4324656 glad in 5s?

Posted Regent on 30 December 2014 - 11:20 AM

I'm pretty sure he meant that all brackets don't get titles anymore.

Titles can only be obtained by how long you spend in ashran per season.


#4319163 Frost DK Research and Stat Facts (Patch 6.2)

Posted Flakkar on 26 December 2014 - 10:05 PM

*** UPDATED FOR 6.2 ***

Hi everyone,

Here we go again folks! It's about time for the 6.2 version. Everything is different now and 2h is taking the back seat while DW appears to be the best early in the season with amazing sustained pressure and the ability to mow plate wearers into the ground!

TLDR: See my 6.2 frost stat priority and gear suggestion at the bottom.

Change History:
Jan 13, 2015 - Haste rating effect buffed by 11.1%, Icy Talons buffed to 20% haste, up from 5%. Note that tooltips in the game are not updated yet (possibly requires a client patch), but I can confirm the changes are live due to seeing them on my stat sheet. See edits in green throughout the post.
July 12, 2015 - Updated for 6.2. See edits in blue throughout the post!

Special Notes:
(*) means I assume it's correct if not bugged but I didn't test it. I'll put this next to things I take for granted.
(**) means I actually tested this to prove that it is indeed this way. For brevity, I didn't outline how, but I can if requested.
(?) means I'm not sure, but if someone could test this somehow, it would be great

Let's start with seconday stat ratings and how much damage they contribute.

Rating points required for 1% increase (** tested this myself):
Haste 90
Crit 110
Multistrike(MS) 66
Mastery(MA) 55
Versatility(Vers) 130

Let's take a realistic but nice looking number of how much of each stat you could stack, say 1000 rating points.

For 1000 rating points you would get:
11.1% Haste
9.09% Crit
15.15% MS
18.18% MA
7.69% Vers
In addition, most stats scale linearly with the exception of stats that add flat % bonus damage ( Versatility and Mastery), which become more and more powerful as you add other stats.

NOTE: Crit and MS are nerfed in PvP! This may be obvious to some, but a lot of people don't take this into account when calculating stat priorities! Each Crit does 150% damage instead of 200%, and there is only one chance at a 30% MS instead of two chances. This also applies to heals!

Taking the nerfs into account, let's do an average damage increase you would get from each stat if you stacked 1000 rating worth. I will not account for burstiness here, because getting a string of lucky crits of multistrikes can always happen, but it will even out in the end, and you don't want to rely on pure luck to win arena matches.

Haste (13.86% (given infinite uptime) DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
Haste is a good stat for frost and provides excellent boosts to sustained DPS. Here's why:
Icy Talons(10% and 20%) and Unholy Aura(5%) apply multiplicatively, all haste you equip is getting multiplied by 1.1*1.20*1.05 = 1.386.

Let's take an example:
I have 15.50% base haste with nothing equipped. Icy Talons gives 10% flat, plus an additional 10% modifier on every other haste effect except Unholy Aura for some reason. Unholy Aura gives 5% flat, plus an additional 5% modifier on every other haste effect. This gives 10 (icy talons) + 5 (unholy aura) + 10*0.05 (unholy aura bonus to icy talons base 10%) = 15.50. I am an NE so I get 1% Haste at night, but I did this test during the day where I did not have that 1% buff to Haste. I also did the test at night and the numbers I see are consistent.

Icy Talons (recently buffed) also adds 20% more of the equipped haste stat.

When you add Unholy presence on top, it adds yet another factor, multiplying (not adding to) every source of haste by another 10 or 20% (depending on spec), as well as adding its own 10 or 20% base amount.

1000 Haste rating / 90 pts per % rating * 1.386% extra for Frost DKs = 15.4% Haste, but let's use 15% for the sake of example since it's a nicer number.
  • 15% haste means 15% faster attack speed, which means 15% more auto-attack damage (**).
  • 15% haste also means 15% more Killing Machine (KM) procs (**) due to increased attack speed.
  • 15% haste also means 15% faster rune regeneration (**), meaning that (for ex) over 100 seconds, a rune would fully cycle 11.5 times instead of 10 if you depleted it instantly every time it came back.
  • Haste does NOT affect the GCD because it's already capped at 1 second (**).
  • Haste does NOT affect diseases (**).
  • Haste does NOT affect Conversion, or Breath of Sindragosa (BoS), or any skill that says it ticks "every X seconds".
It's tempting to think that haste offers a 15.4% DPS increase, but there's a couple things to note.
  • Haste does not fully kick in immediately once you start attacking. At first you will get faster auto-attacks, so about 2.6-3 seconds after you attack, you will get a second auto-attack that will be sooner with more haste. But after that, it will take around 7 seconds for runes to start coming back due to higher haste.
  • Haste does not affect diseases. From my tests, diseases seem to compose at most 10% of my DPS. I don't personally think it's worth noting spread damage from having it on multiple targets as Frost spec. The damage is so pitiful that it will not factor into you winning games. You are not a rot spec.
  • Haste does not affect the GCD.
  • Haste does not affect Breath of Sindragosa while it's up, so it will not make it burst faster. However, it will make your runes come back faster, which might allow BoS to stay up longer due to the extra runic power you will have. This only applies for 2h because BoS is bad as DW.
  • Haste can at most affect the recharge of 3 runes simultaneously. If you don't have one rune of each type depleted, then Haste's contribution is being reduced. If you have 2 runes recharging, then you're getting 66.7% of Haste's effect. One rune is 33.3% etc.
  • Haste is uptime dependent. (See below for uptime explanation) This means that if you can't keep one of each rune type constantly on cooldown, then you won't get all of its DPS increase.
  • Haste also adds some utility because you will be able to use Icy Touch more often for purges, plus more uses of Chains of Ice, and you will have more RP for interrupts, Conversion, and Dark Simulacrum.
  • I also see a lot of people saying that if you have a crappy connection, Haste is worse. This may be real if you lose some time after runes come off cooldown. Try switching to Unholy presence and feel the effects of 10% more haste. Imagine that effect in Frost presence where you don't lose the RP gen, and see if it would be better for you.
  • There is concern that there's such thing as too much haste. This is true to an extent. As you stack more and more haste, Versatility and Mastery (DW only) become more powerful, so you don't want to stack haste. You just want some of it.  
So to conclude: 1000 points of haste gives roughly 13.86% DPS increase (1.54% lost due to not affecting diseases) if you have infinite uptime. In reality, this isn't going to happen, but it's extremely unlikely that you will not have at least a few runes on cooldown, which is enough to get lots of benefit from Haste. In addition, since Versatility and Mastery (DW only) scale better with more gear they will outpace Haste eventually. They also contribute to burstiness whereas Haste only lets you burst more often.

Crit (3.64% DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
Yes, Crit is really bad, and probably the worst stat for Frost, including DW. Here's why.
1000 rating / 110 rating per % = 9.09 Crit chance for 1000 rating.
So we are adding a 9.09% chance to do 50% additional damage, meaning on every attack that can crit we are adding 4.545% damage.
  • Diseases can Crit! Actually all damage a DK does can Crit! (*)
  • But there's a catch: Killing Machine. KM guaranteed Crits means the your Crit is useless when KM procs! Based on my tests, about half of my Oblits and Frost Strikes are used when KM is up. If you are really good at managing your resources, it might be more than half, but let's assume half for now. On my tests, my Frost Strikes and Oblits (2h or DW) combined do between 40-50% of my overall damage no matter if I'm bursting, or just normally DPSing. So that means that if half my oblierates/frost strikes don't use KM, then my Crit is not being used half the time, so the real Crit contribution is more around 4.545% * 80% = 3.64%.
Multistrike (4.545% DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
As Blizzard themselves have said, Crit and MS are equal, even in PvP.
1000 rating / 66 rating per % = 15.15% MS chance for 1000 rating.
So we are adding an 15.15% chance to do 30% additional damage, so by simple math: 15.15% * 30% = 4.545% damage increase.
  • Every attack can MS, including diseases. I am not sure if Death Strike healing can MS (?), but I am pretty sure that Conversion cannot (?).
  • Multistrikes can crit! And KM procs (if they proc MS), will automatically Crit on the MS proc.
Mastery (~12.2% for DW, (~6% for 2h) DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
For 2h Mastery is kinda weird and hard to calculate, but it proved to be pretty crap in 6.1. Now in 6.2, DW is heavily favored due to the savage buffs to Frost Strike and Howling Blast. So much so, that Mastery is easily the best stat for DW.

1000 rating / 55 rating per % = 18.18% Mastery for 1000 rating.
  • This means 18% increased Frost and Shadowfrost damage (**). But how much of our damage is actually Frost or Shadowfrost?
  • For 2h: According to my tests, I get between 25-40% Frost damage (when doing regular dps), averaging around 33%. Strangely enough, this applies even when doing crazy burst with BoS, because you are not using Frost Strike.
  • For 2h: So therefore 18.18% * 33% = ~6% damage increase per 1000 Mastery. This beats Crit and MS assuming at least 25% of your damage is Frost or Shadowfrost, which is a pretty safe assumption.
  • For DW: According to my tests, I get between 67-70% Frost or Shadowfrost damage (when doing regular dps).
  • For DW: Therefore 18.18% * 67% = ~12.2% damage increase per 1000 Mastery.
Versatility (7.69% DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
This is the easiest one to calculate. This is a great stat because it offers healing and defense bonuses.
1000 rating / 130 rating per % = 7.69% Versatility for 1000 rating.
  • 7.69% Versatility means 7.69% more damage across the board on all damage DKs do (*).
  • 7.69% Versatility means 7.69% more healing on Deathstrike, and other heals that are not %life based. Versatility does not increase Conversion healing!(**)
  • 7.69% Versatility also means 3.85% less damage taken from all sources (*).
Some ugly facts I found while testing:
  • The PvP target dummy at the Glad Sanctum takes double damage from crits instead of 50% more - probably a bug. Multistrikes are also causing 2 strikes instead of 1.
Strength:
I didn't test anything for Strength, but it almost never overlaps with secondary stats, so not much to discuss here. Even if it does, Str gets so many insane %-based bonuses from DK passives and procs that it easily outdoes the other stats (*).

Putting it all together:
  • All the numbers are for 1000 rating in isolation. Some may wonder if it changes when you throw all the stats together and in different amounts. It does make a difference for % damage increase stats like Mastery and Versatility, but you need thousands of rating points to see a difference. I once graphed it out and found the sweet spots and everything, but it's not worth showing here. I think the conclusion is: stack % damage stats and just get some of the rest while avoiding crappy stats like Crit.
  • Strengh is most likely the best stat in all cases, unless someone can prove otherwise.
  • For 2H: Haste and Versatility are both really good. Haste is better in terms of pure math, but Vers benefits your early burst more (i.e. the first 7-8 seconds of DPS after starting with full runes). We are looking at 13.86% more DPS (but not in the first few seconds of damage) vs 7.69% more DPS (active at all times). Haste's benefits will only fully start showing up after runes start coming off cooldown. During the initial burst, you will only gain the increased auto-attacks and KM procs. Versatility does have the healing and damage reduction benefits, though they are less important for DKs compared to the damage benefit, and Haste has some built-in survivability too due to the rune regen for Death Strike, and extra RP for Conversion. This could make a great discussion to see which is better, Haste or Vers. Looking at the DK gear though, it looks like you can usually get them both together. If your connection sucks, or you think that Haste feels worse when you play, go for Vers since it is by far the best other choice.
  • For DW: Mastery is hands down the best, followed by Versatility due to the % damage increase nature. Crit and MS remain crap, and Haste is somwhere in the middle. Haste is nice to have, but not nice to stack.
  • I have studied the uptime requirements of Haste and here's what I see: you are getting 100% of Haste's effect if you constantly have at least one rune of each type on cooldown. That is, you must have at least 1 death rune, 1 frost rune, and 1 unholy rune on cooldown. Haste also increases autoattack speed, but most of the benefit is in the runes, not the autoattack. It's probably common knowledge that only one rune of each type can be recharging at a time (if not, see Haste section above). Haste DPS is only worse than Versatility if you are sitting on two runes of the same type two rune pairs for a significant period of time. I have been checking my runes for a few weeks now, and I am almost never sitting on two rune pairs while in combat (except at the beginning when all runes are up, but it takes only 1 GCD to put enough runes on cooldown). Even if you're kited, you are still using icy touch for purges (thanks Scoot), chains of ice, howling blast, etc and using up those runes.
  • There is no doubt that for 2H, Vers is better for bursting. Haste doesn't help you much if you're blowing ERW and Plague Leech.
  • Crit is flat out the worst from the numbers.
Stat Priority:
So the stat prio for 6.2 DW Frost in my opinion is the following ('>>' means much better).
Str >> MA >> Vers > Haste > MS >> Crit

The stat prio for 6.2 2h Frost remains:
Str >> Vers > Haste > MS >= Mastery >> Crit

Gear Selection:

Go DW this season. The pressure it puts out is unreal! Hope they don't nerf it...
Here is my best attempt at putting together a gearset that satisfies the above.


Note: For DW I'm recommending the 4 piece bonus, but I'm not 100% sure that it's the way to go. You gain 10% more frost damage, but you're trading around 5-6% DPS and 1% damage reduction for it. If it turns out that 4 piece bonus uptime isn't close to 100% during bursts (uptime seems pretty good from my experience), then we should ditch all the set pieces and stack mastery.

Armor option 1: 4 set pieces
Helm: Set helm
Chest: MA/Vers
Shoulders: Set shoulders
Gloves: Set gloves
Legs: Set pants


Armor option 2: 2 set pieces
Helm: MS/MA
Chest: MA/Vers
Shoulders: Set shoulders
Gloves: MA/Haste
Legs: Set pants (you can take the MA/Vers pants but haste is really low with this setup so I prefer the Haste/MA set pants)

Accessories:
Boots: MA/MS
Belt: Vers/MA
Bracer: MA/Haste
Neck: MA/Crit
Cloak: MA/Haste
Ring1: MS/Haste
Ring2: MA/Crit
Trinket1: Str with on use Vers
Trinket2: If human the alternate Str trinket or Vers+proc Str one. If any other race, the 800 Vers stun breaker trinket.
Enchants: Mastery

Weapon Enchants: Fallen Crusader mainhand, Razorice offhand

Final projected bonuses:
+8.4% MS option 1, +12.7% option 2
+43.3% MA option 1, +47.2% option 2
+11.5% Vers option 1, +13.5% Vers option 2 (with 800 Vers trinket)
+7.4% Crit option 1, +2.9% option 2
+15.5% Haste option 1, +11.1% option 2



#4318140 Delete Combat & BoS from the game

Posted Speedymart on 26 December 2014 - 01:58 AM

Just Cmashed while taunt was on CD and died in a 12 second kidney through enraged regen in 2s


idk who more to be mad at

the 12 second kidney or the fact half my abilities change my stance


#4317867 Delete Combat & BoS from the game

Posted HeyimJack on 25 December 2014 - 07:46 PM

View Postbt4, on 25 December 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

bos is  the only new ability since bc that is fun to play with in any game content. Rather delete arenas then bos, it's still shit anyway and probably never will get fully fixed. Arguably even worse now with forced ashran rep farm for bis gear and the increased RNG for conquest pieces.


Now if they just disable it in arena we can have an agreement but sacrificing it for arena which ain't balanced anyway is just a waste.
Hello can we get a junkies requirement for class forums ?


#4317762 Delete Combat & BoS from the game

Posted Kroyfel on 25 December 2014 - 06:13 PM

View Postprokillur, on 25 December 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

that just shows ur lack of understanding with respect to combat. you have to play around deep insight to kill any decent team and there is a big difference between someone that plays it good like generic or woundman and someone just running at a healer. if combat was that broken ppl would be complaining everywhere about it but its only on arenajunkies that i see this, in lower brackets combat is meh because people dont know how to play it...not saying should be balanced for lower bracket but simply when things are really broken it usually gets complaints everywhere like rets/ferals etc.

Posted Image


#4317747 Delete Combat & BoS from the game

Posted Slavens on 25 December 2014 - 05:58 PM

View Postprokillur, on 25 December 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

that just shows ur lack of understanding with respect to combat. you have to play around deep insight to kill any decent team and there is a big difference between someone that plays it good like generic or woundman and someone just running at a healer. if combat was that broken ppl would be complaining everywhere about it but its only on arenajunkies that i see this, in lower brackets combat is meh because people dont know how to play it...not saying should be balanced for lower bracket but simply when things are really broken it usually gets complaints everywhere like rets/ferals etc.

r u retard




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