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Member Since 15 Feb 2012
Offline Last Active Jun 23 2015 05:44 AM

#4438601 Primetime on EU - 06.00 confirmed

Posted Hexur on 20 June 2015 - 10:50 AM

Drewzy just 1 question: what the actual fuck are you still doing on a wow pvp forum?

#4438526 Primetime on EU - 06.00 confirmed

Posted Xonika on 20 June 2015 - 04:24 AM

View Postdrzy, on 20 June 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

hey look another thread nobody besides 12 people who still take this trash game serious care about
you play on US, its the exact same as wintrading... 99% of teams are free win

#4438649 Primetime on EU - 06.00 confirmed

Posted Backonja on 20 June 2015 - 01:16 PM

everyone que up tomorrow 6am for some real games Kappa

#4438535 Primetime on EU - 06.00 confirmed

Posted Odrareg on 20 June 2015 - 04:28 AM

But haxa m8 why are you awake? were you planning to do the same? <3

#4435208 CC/burst with WoD

Posted ProdeGaming on 13 June 2015 - 08:55 AM

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#4434104 When you're so bored of the season-

Posted BalanceRexxar on 11 June 2015 - 05:47 AM

if you're that bored of the season you should do the opposite of whats in this video, give yourself a challenge, help someone achieve their goals instead of getting whatever sick pleasure you get out of watching somebody be sad. this is the definition of a toxic and negative post.

#4433984 Why game is not fun to play anymore

Posted Nyeshyo on 10 June 2015 - 10:25 PM

Thread on EU forums:

Decided to post on AJ aswell to get thoughts from players that don't read the official forums, and americanos (since I don't have a US account)


The highest amount of skill you can get with the current tools in the game, harder to reach the higher amount of buttons you have. People like Reckful season 8-9, Pikaboo season 13, Snutz season 11 were playing close to the Skill-cap, and people loved to watch their videos & streams because of their individual skill being so much above average.

General skill of the community

The general skill of the community is how good the players are actually playing the game. It's something  that keeps increasing every season due to the fact that people learn new stuff all the time, especially now when you can watch high-rated streams on Twitch or watch good guides on sites like Skill-Capped.

What does this mean? Can you put it into context?

Sure, imagine season 4. The last season of TBC, you didn't have nearly as many tools to work with as in season 15, the last season of MoP. Even though this, people had a tough time getting titles, just because the general skill was alot lower than it was in the end of MoP. The average 2k player didn't know how to death polys, meld blinds, pre-sac traps, fake tremors etc. So even though the skill-cap was low back then, people had fun because people weren't very good at the game.

But let's imagine this, WoW gets a rollback to season 4 - everyone being forced to play in TBC, with the knowledge we have today, people would master the classes extremely easy and it would be hard to tell if a player is 1800 rated or 2800 rated.

This hasn't been a problem, because Blizzard has tuned the skill-cap and general skill every expansion, by adding new buttons to classes to press to keep making the meta more fun and interesting.

If you made a graph of this, it'd probably look something along those lines:

(Not very accurate, I know, this is only to give you and idea of this philophy).

On Blizzcon 2013 Blizzard announces this new expansion, Warlords of Draenor!
Where they also announce that they'll make an "Ability prune" - removing ability bloat from your bars.
Awesome I thought - they'll get rid of abilities like underwater breathing, weird holy spells you never use as shadow etc. Just abilities you don't even have bound on your bar that just takes up space in your spellbook.

Once I logged in on the beta however, I quickly realized that on my furywarrior, Colossus Smash (an ability that the whole rotation was based off) was gone, along with Heroic Strike - a neat ragedump, and several other abilities. I just thought that since it was the beta they had magically forgotten to add those abilities. Looks like I was wrong.

Removing buttons on all classes significantly lowered the skill-cap of the game, not only did they remove buttons but they also removed smart, cool stuff, like dot&hotsnapshotting! which also lowered the skill cap. The graph would now look like this:


Graph in context:


So what does this really mean?

1. WoW is not fun to watch anymore.

Did you notice that WoW is no longer near as popular as it used to be on Twitch.tv?
Why would anyone watch a multi-rank1 warrior stream over Billy who's doing the exact same thing at 2300 rating? With only minimal differences, like positioning & interrupting.

2. WoW is not fun to play

Lower amount of buttons leaves lower room to outplay someone, if you join a game and you in the startroom as a shatterplay see that you're facing a turbocleave you most likely go "Oh, it's a loss..." but on the same time if you see a Ret/Hunter/Disc you go "Ah, it's a skip-game again, easy points". If you can't outplay people with your tools, you'll be able to predict what's going to happen in every game and the meta becomes stale and "scripted"

Ok, I got it! So how do we make the game fun to watch and play again?

The only way I can possibly see to make this game fun to watch in a competitive manner is to give players the opportunity to outplay their opponents. The red has to stay above the blue in the graph and I just pray that next Blizzcon, the major announcement will be


In the next expansion, we're giving back all the abilities we removed in the prune (except for the garbage ones people didn't have bound), we're also adding extra abilities to make up for all the lost ones you had to use in WoD

This is the ideal in the graph:

and having that same curve while moving forward.

Ty 4 this time - love from 136
shoutout to Planny and all the boys

Relevant thread:

#4431275 What 6.2 doesn't address from 6.1

Posted inhume on 03 June 2015 - 10:32 PM

Resto Druids in Bear form all day

Does it bother anyone else that resto druids will spend more time in bear form just getting hit ,rather than healing like any other normal healer? I mean, maybe it's just me but it does seem a bit strange that resto druids are able to sit in a form and not cast regular healing spells, i'm not talking the stupid frenzy regen spam, for 10 or so seconds and be perfectly fine. Bear form is interesting in providing uniqueness but it just feels off gameplay wise. Maybe raise armor in regular form and nerf bear form armor for resto somehow. Maybe make barkskin look like bear form or something.

God Comp eventual CC chain (let's be honest, it's mainly druid/mage/x)
If you play against god comp at all, you know at some point in the game, you are never playing your character again for 20+ seconds. Granted, there's a lot of things you can do to frustrate the opposing mage but at some point, it's going to happen. Who knows , maybe the flameglow nerf will make it so this can't happen but if the nerf wasn't enough, we're still going to sit cc forever. I'm not even sure how you can fix this but something needs to be done.

Holy Pally Denounce
Again, another cool unique spell but insanely strong in a pvp setting. The ability to take away opponents crit is insane. If you get the denounce off, you're reducing a ton of incoming damage. IE, you're better off casting a denounce and then start casting heals if it's not a high pressure situation. Is it really intended that during low damage pressure to make it so you can make the damage even lower? Make it reduce crit damage, give the paladin higher damage against the target, higher chance to crit that target. Just stop letting it destroy pressure.

Off healing/support from Hybrids
I'm all for diversity of classes but when all hybrid spend the majority of their actions in a support capacity, I am not a fan and i'm certain those classes don't enjoy it. I mean as an enhance, who enjoys pressing purge all day? Who enjoys spamming heals every global? No one. Make it so they do more than just support all day.

NS abilities from healers
Priests don't survive in the current meta because they cannot provide to their teammates the instant burst heal on top of their regular cooldowns. Either give them an NS for their teammates or somehow bring these burst healing for the healing classes down because they will never compete if they can't save their allies the way the rest can.

Note: I'm not going to address anything about damage for classes because there's not enough evidence to say certain classes will be dumb. No one knows how the new meta will play out or how the gear progression will affect. These are all gameplay mechanic issues.

What other gameplay mechanics seem off to you in an arena match that doesn't appear to be addressed.?

#4428035 What can Shattering Throw shatter?

Posted seeiz on 23 May 2015 - 11:15 PM

It shatters Azaels commentating.

#4428080 What can Shattering Throw shatter?

Posted jaimex on 24 May 2015 - 02:10 AM

imegine how sik it wud b to shatter ur own traps guise :))

#4428029 What can Shattering Throw shatter?

Posted Pinka on 23 May 2015 - 10:51 PM

It can shatter a glyph slot.

#4425670 PvP concerns, Dmg/CC/Healing

Posted ProdeGaming on 17 May 2015 - 06:45 PM

Could healing or dmg or CC be overpowered in general? Let's assume that this is clear for most players that they can be.
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Let's pick just one, healing and check a few cases/concerns.
What makes healing overpowered?

Easily recognizable op healing could be, similar to the recently buffed Execution Sentence with Avenging Wrath. It's usually not the gameplay what players would like to see, the target getting healed from 10% back up to nearly full HP instantly.

Basically, talking about a heal that heals for a huge % of HP, often deemed op.

So possible question, does a heal need to heal for high % of HP to become op?
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This heal heals the warrior for only 2% HP, however, if the mage is doing this kind of dmg, this healing is very overpowered.

So a heal needs to heal for high % of HP to become op. No, it does not. It's enough if it's op relative to dmg.

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What else do players not like? Frequent concern is that classes are only good when CDs are up and then feel meh without. Let's stay with holy paladin, during Avenging Wrath, it's amazing but without it's meh.

The healing could look similar as in this example.
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Suggestion is often to reduce effectiveness of Avenging Wrath, so it's not so outstanding compared to the healing without it and compensate this nerf by buffing the regular heals.

So basically, what players are asking for is to not make that peak on the graph so high and to bring those no cd 'meh' heals up to make it a constant decent healing.

Essentially to bring the outstanding lines closer to the overall HPS.
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This is usually the case also when it comes to dmg classes, warriors would like to do good dmg without Avatar Recklessness too and with regular abilities, not just wait for Execute proc. Ferals usually would like bleed dmg get buffed and stuff like Ferocious Bite and Incarnation burst get nerfed etc.
Practically it's the same example graph, only that it's for dmg and not healing.

So the suggestion is that dmg and healing should get closer to the overall HPS and DPS.

What this means is that it could be said about the suggested classes that
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By this, the HPS and DPS of classes give a much better estimate of the classes actual strength.

Is that good? Surely it is, HPS and DPS is most likely relatively easy to balance. For example Hybrids can be much more balanced, because the HPS they gain from abilities can much more easily be evaluated and weighed as a performance gain. Basically when it comes to putting a class together, it can be evaluated much better how much the worth of a Shield Wall or a Gouge is. In fact when it comes to PvP, as soon as CC comes into play, the strength of CC is way easier calculated, as the loss your class' performance suffers is much more constant. While with very spiky dmg and healing, the effect of CC is much less certain and very varying.
So not only does it make the game more enjoyable, but also makes balancing way more convenient and easier, ultimately making the balance better. Because essentially, the closer dmg and healing gets to HPS and DPS, the more precisely they help decode any ability to see its worth, for example to solve the issue of 'this dmg class has this much healing, how much CC or defensive cd should I give the other dmg class to compete with that healing?'.

So now it's just a matter of for example healer HPS within their class roles being balanced, same for DPS.
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Once done, since it's at the beginning of the thread that healing can be op compared to just dmg alone, now HPS and DPS should get compared to each other.

What comparison even? Well it should be balanced for 3v3, so HPS should be about 2x as high as DPS.
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The lower ratio HPS has, the less CC healing needs, since DPS needs less aid to overcome healing.

Jump back to the live game, what is this ratio there? From an around 6.1 calculation, this ratio is about 3:1. That's 150% of the desired HPS. Since it should be around 2:1 to have just a decent amount of CC, 3:1 ratio requires much more CC to exist than originally wanted, especially against healers.

So it needs a fix before the player gameplay desires could happen.
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Assuming healers' HPS within their class roles are close equal 1:1 ratio, they shouldn't be individually changed to achieve the above. Instead, all of them should get the same reduction, so they keep their equal HPS.

A reduction that reduces all their healing by the same amount is Battle Fatigue, which however is a ruled out change by the players. So since the required change is ruled out, what players are asking for, more constant and less spiky dmg, less CC cannot be achieved, essentially impossibility.

Since the wishes cannot be achieved, but a fix to this ratio is desired and also since CC is already often bordering eternity, the only possible change to fix the issue is to not bring HPS down but bring DPS up. It is what's happening 6.2, for it's the only feasible change left to overcome the excess of healing as long as an equal effect as Battle Fatigue is off the table.

Should it be? No.

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Saladfork said:

Battle fatigue got so much hate because it is a lazy way to "fix" things. It treats healers as if they are all equal and furthers the homogenization even more. Sure it is easier for Blizzard to balance and easier for the player base to absorb, but it leads to discrepancies (usually shamans end up on top since their utility is so great, and their burst healing has always been strong).

I understand what you're saying, though. But I don't think battle fatigue is the *best* solution (it is a "solution"). I would rather have them provide nerfs to healing individually (on a class-by-class basis). And in a perfect world, I'd have them address mana (since mana really isn't an issue until late late dampening), and finally fine tune burst damage to match with the healing nerfs. Obviously these changes would have to be PvP specific (since the current state of healing is entirely due to PvE), and that may be a big road block in going forward since that is against Holinka's philosophy.
In a sense, Battle Fatigue or an equal effect is not -a- solution, it's -the only- way, looking at it as it cannot be skipped, is a required change, a tool to achieve something.

To make it maybe a bit more spectacular, could use a similar example to the current issue.

So the suggested issues are:
    • Too high burst
    • Too much CC
    • Healers die easily
    • However HPS being higher than DPS
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    Being unable to skip the use of Battle Fatigue or an equal effect is because healers' HPS is already balanced. So if you try to skip it and decrease each healers healing spells 1 by 1, in this case by monstrous percentages, there is gonna be a minimum % you've decreased every spell by. So since all their spells have been decreased by that %, it's the equal effect as Battle Fatigue, even tho the intent was to avoid it, essentially used it regardless.

    Other issue could be that there are some spells that are already weak and need no reduction.
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    So basically Battle Fatigue or an equal effect could potentially be more efficient change to fix the majority of, in this case healing issue.
    At the same time, the majority of the issue can get huge enough so that it's simply no longer feasible to be, cannot be replaced by a series of single spell changes.

    It may as well look very lazy to change so many spells all at at the same time, but in case changing 800 spells 1 by 1 is not feasible, then not using an overall reduction is going to prevent doing anything at all. Because can't go 1 by 1 but can't reduce all either, so cannot do anything.
    But if all spells do get reduced, then it's potentially going to be feasible to fix those that were already balanced, essentially be able to do more than if all spells didn't get reduced.

    These could be issues because Battle Fatigue or an equal effect may very well sound like a universal fix that makes PvP suddenly amazing. But it isn't, it's just a piece of a series of different changes to achieve something, but it cannot be skipped.

    Such series of different changes, following all healing reduction could be
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    #4425565 Forbearance

    Posted Tsx on 17 May 2015 - 11:55 AM

    Why is it 30 secs?why??????????

    #4420354 pvp trinket cd being reverted back to 1 min in 6.2

    Posted Pinka on 07 May 2015 - 10:15 PM

    There is truth in it. Rather have lower burst but more often then over the top burst every first global of an arena match that might rng global someone.
    Human racial needs to go overall tho. But this is a good fix to minimize the damage.
    Even if classes benefit from it's 1 min cd. It is still going to be less burst overall.

    #4419634 May 6th PTR Notes

    Posted Redoxz on 07 May 2015 - 12:29 AM

    annoying but much needed, cloak shouldn't be 60s cd honestly.

    you shouldn't have a defensive whenever someone has an offensive.

    i'm glad this got nerfed along with flameglow