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Member Since 09 Dec 2011
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 10:21 PM

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In Topic: ded gaem

19 November 2014 - 05:25 PM

View Postysnakewoo, on 19 November 2014 - 04:11 AM, said:

Even though I'm reading the thread, I think I'd only be repeating what teamliquid forums have already gone through to a massive extent.

Regardless, Heroes of the Storm are actually awesome. They force teamwork, as they should, and the variety of maps is awesome. The meta is not focused on laning so much, just follow the leader kind-of-thing. So that the entire team (other 4 players) don't have to suffer if a teammate is doing bad. There are some issues (Nova is broken currently) and the stealth mechanic is puzzling to the new players - basically, you see a premade going Tassadar/Nova combo and 1shotting almost any other hero. This is coming from a Diamond LoL player btw.

Ya, HotS is pretty fun.  I'm really hoping the community jumps on map design like they did in BW/SC2 to the point to where community made maps were dominant.  I think the community could come up with some insane maps to play on.

In Topic: ded gaem

18 November 2014 - 04:29 PM

View PostFlexes92, on 18 November 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

i think sc2 "failing" at attracting a larger playerbase and the bad design that went into some sc2 mechanics (protoss as a whole, economy) are two seperate issues and fixing one won't fix the other. one issue affects mostly the hardcore fans and other the casuals.
as someone who loves the game i'd like to have both fixed. if i had to decide though, i'd definitly decide in favour of fixing the bad designs.

Yes and this is what I have been saying.  You can fix this game for the hardcore but it's not going to magically bring in the playerbase and viewers.  My whole point was to address the original post which basically claimed that this game is dead because of its mechanics/design.

In Topic: ded gaem

17 November 2014 - 11:20 PM

View PostFlexes92, on 17 November 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

i don't think a game can't be both accessible AND offer a high skillcap. let bad players be bad players. if they don't want to understand how the game works and play against other bad people that's fine, but don't fuck over my part of the game because of it.
street fighter is accessible, yet 80% of the players proably don't know what a frame-trap is. super smash bros is accessible yet 80% of the players probably don't know how to wavedash. cs:go is accessible yet 80% of the players don't know the smokespots or what a spraypattern is. not everone has to understand the game 100% to have fun with it. i think it's bullshit to make a game more accessible by making it easier. i really hate blizzard for focussing on casual play so much lately, atleast i think it hasn't infected sc so far (except if they really don't make that eco change just because of transperancy reasons). fucking hearthstone could have been like mtg, but no that's too hard to they make it fucking random and design cards based on like 3 different effects. heroes of the storm the fucking worst casual moba every created. wow getting that fucking raidfinder ultraeasymode. overgrowth looking easy as fuck. makes me so angry because i know blizzard actually makes good games. good engines, good mechanics... atleast if they don't fucking cater to the casual audience like they always do these days. valve is really gaining bonus points in my book for still making good games like dota and cs:go.

Well, I guess we will just have to see with LotV because it's basically Blizzard's last shot at appealing to a wider audience.  The change in economy seems casual friendly with the intent of making pro play more interesting.  The other changes range from awesome to questionable but the game hasn't even entered beta yet so we will just have to wait and see.

Honestly, I think it's just a trait of these sorts of RTS games.  They just aren't massively appealing and never have been (with Korean BW being the exception).  All of the games you named as casual with a great competitive scene are all fairly straight forward in how you approach them.  You are in control of one hero/fighter/etc with a fairly simple skill layout and the competitive depth of the game comes from breaking the mechanics, teamwork, whatever.  In an RTS like SC you are presented with one building and some workers and to get to that fun point in the game with all of the explosions you have to put in some work and reading, that's not instantly enjoyable to most people.  Smash Bros you instantly beat the shit out of your buddy by mashing the controller, MOBAs have high knowledge to function properly but you can still jump into the action pretty quick because you start out as a hero some ability to fight others with (not to mention the team play aspect).

Seriously, the whole argument that SC2 is failing because of it's mechanics and horrible race design is pretty silly.  Obviously things could be better but you still aren't going to convince little Jimmy that the game gets fun after you read descriptions for 20 minutes.  Maybe what SC2 needs is some sort of official fastest money ladder where you start with a base prebuilt that way you can F2 + a move.  Come to think of it that might not be a bad idea a majority of games on BW Blizzard servers were just BGH/fastest money.  I think I'm on to something...

In Topic: ded gaem

17 November 2014 - 04:21 AM

View PostFlexes92, on 17 November 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

i thnk it's a combination of things. first off you play alone and it's a lonely experience. i love sc, i haven't had that much fun with any other game ever, but even i think it's way more fun to play with friends in wow arenas or dota or cs:go. word of mouth makes them spread like crazy. how many people play a moba because their friends do and asked them to join in. it's also coop which is especially fun to play with friends. the archon mode they'll add in sc is cool though. i have a friend who is quite a bite worse then me, diamond so we can never play 1v1's, but we are fucking hyped to be able to play archon mode and there even is a ranked ladder so you can set a goal you want to achiev (the other teamgames in sc just suck. game is not designed for that). secoundly the chat system came too late and the restriction that only x number of players can get into 1 room sucks. lastly, game is too demanding and there's no one to blame your losses on. if you wanna get good it rips your heart out because losses feel so fucking bad and it's so demanding just psychologically AND physically. i don't think the entrance barrier is high though, i mean matchmaking will always find you someone as bas as you, right?

i feel like what sc needs to get a larger playerbase are features to play with friends, free to play and a way of monetization like skins or something.

does anyone know battleforge? i though that game was really good and had good ways to keep people engaged, just the way theyy marketed it was really bad. what they did well has create pve content in a strategy game that kept you engaged.
in that game you had a set of units/structures you could switch inbetwene games and create your own race so to speak and strategies. you could upgrade your units and get new ones by playing coop missions with different difficulty settings(each mission rewarded different upgrades so you couldn't just farm one). the highest setting which rewarded the best upgrades was decently hard so you had to cooperate with your team very well and build the right set of units. since there were lots of units and structures there also were lots of upgrades that took a long time to get which ment there really was a long time goal in pve, and it was fun, too. then there obv. was 1v1 ladder, which was good. a bit unbalanced obv. if you didn't do pve and got the upgrades. a similar system for sc2 would be perfect to have people keep playing the game, beeing able to play with friends and drawing friends in. maybe you could do a matchmaking mode even for the "non-competitive" gamemode where you kept all the upgrades and then a normal 1v1 ranked ladder for competitive ply without them.

Maybe it's just me but I actually like teams in SC2 but I'm usually not taking it seriously.  It's normally just me and a few buddies in raid call trying to see what stupid shit we can get away with but I suppose that's not really a selling point.

I agree on the teams thing though and Blizzard did kind of fuck up with the lack of chat and less than stellar UMS system at launch.  A really hyped up LotV with some solid team offerings could help maintain the playerbase substantially.  But now you see the problem is that we are debating that no matter how amazing the 1v1 game of SC2 is it will never maintain the playerbase.  The game needs to be accessible for people to just jump in and have fun like a MOBA or even something like Smash Bros.

I certainly am not claiming to have any answers to this but I do get sick of seeing these topics claiming SC2 needs to become some sort of ascended version of BW to 'save it' when it is quite obvious the issue is much more than that.

I've never heard of/played Battleforge.

In Topic: ded gaem

17 November 2014 - 03:54 AM

View PostFlexes92, on 17 November 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

i dont agree with you that bw eco is more complicated than sc2. if they don't know about gradual scaling then what? they put their 30 workers on one base, so what? how do they know right now that you only put 16 workers on one base right now? chances are these people don't. it's the same with bw eco though. just put it in as a tip on the loading screen so they eventually pick up on it and that's it.
if they don't know these things they will just get matches against other baddies and they play the game their way. no harm done. competitive play improved by 100% though.

Well, there is a pretty big difference between the 16 (24 currently) workers in SC2 and the 30 or whatever it was in BW in terms of cost, efficiency, ROI, etc but at that point we might as well and open up the discussion to how each economy interacts with everything else which isn't really the point.  The point I'm debating is the transparency in which the SC2 economy operates which I think most people will pick up on pretty quick but the issue with it is the amount you can get away with on 2-3 bases and the lack of incentive to go beyond that point until one is being mined out.  I think LotV might do a solid job of addressing this while maintaining a fairly transparent economy.