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Posted Bigmoran on 25 February 2014 - 04:19 PM
I really hope I can earn the respect of all whiteknights. Apologies to Dibzz, Irub, and Benjiown.
Posted Vanguards on 19 January 2011 - 02:14 PM
This guide is written mainly for players new to playing retribution in arena / PvP.
What changed about Rets in 5.4.7 from 5.4 for PvP?
1.) There are no changes.
2.) The biggest changes are to the game. Base resilience is going up, Battle Fatigue is increased, and Gear ilvl is higher once again.
Many people ask me if Rets are viable this patch. Viable is more or less an opinion, I'll let you decide after trying it!
In the talent picture I selected talents that I use as default in arena. Talents and Glyphs should be changed every arena match depending on what composition you're playing, what you're up against, and what strategy you and your opponent might execute.
Usual recommendation: Long Arm of the Law.
Why Long Arm of the Law? Well Judgement cooldown is incredibly short, so this sprint is almost on demand.
For most compositions I recommend Fist of Justice.
For compositions where your team has no Fear DR and you can actually cast it off I recommend Evil is a Point of View.
Any 3 of these talents are viable. What is best will depend on many factors such as your play-style, the composition you're running, and what you're fighting against. Fist of Justice is an easy to use instant CC that allows your teammates to easily chain off of as well. Fist of Justice also increases your HOJ range which is very useful for a melee. The fear talent is quite powerful when you can get it off, but most compositions will have enough utility to stop a melee from consistently casting it. If you are not in this situation, it is very powerful. Repentance is similar to Evil is a Point of View, just a different CC on a different DR.
Selfless Healer is recommended for most cases.
Having Selfless Healer is useful to get those fast and lower mana costing heals on yourself or your teammates. Other talents aren't bad either, but Selfless Healer performs the best.
Recommended: Clemency - A previous patch made Hand of Sacrifice dispel magic effects. Clemency was already really strong for most scenarios since you can use freedom, sacrifice, and protection twice.
Hand of Purity is awesome for counter comping into DOT cleaves. Hand of Purity is to be used when you fight a DOT Cleave such as affliction warlock teams.
Unbreakable Spirit is particularly good when you know you're getting trained, especially against Caster Cleaves. The buff in 5.4 made this talent very strong, and I usually use this over the other 2 specs when fighting against double Caster compositions.
Recommended: Holy Avenger
All 3 talents here are quite strong, but Holy Avenger usually performs best for burst which fits the current meta game with long CC chains to get kills. Holy Avenger also lines up with Avenging Wrath perfectly to use together for stacking CDs.
Recommended: Execution Sentence
This is an extremely common question. Why Execution Sentence? Before 5.4 Holy Prism was a lot better. Due to gear scaling, and the Execution Sentence dispel change it has made this talent superior in general. When you dispel Execution Sentence now it will immediately activate the last tick which is the big burst that you want. Gear scaling has also made this talent deal far more damage.
Holy Prism is good because of how PvP is, situational and burst oriented. Holy Prism lets you heal when it's needed, or otherwise burst.
Most major glyphs are purely preference. Prime glyphs there are several choices with Templar's Verdict in my opinion almost always being mandatory since Ret is always a viable kill option. The only way you'd ever take this off is if you're 100% positive you will not get targeted.
Templar's Verdict (Necessary) - Now works on exorcism as well!
Burden of Guilt (It allows you to slow on your judgement now in 5.4! Highly recommended especially when you have no slow on your team.)
Double Jeopardy (The extra 20% burst is really insane at the moment, purposely judgeing a focus target then swapping back right before you Avenging Wrath is really useful)
Word of Glory (Extra damage for all those WOGs you do!)
Really doesn't matter, Hearthstone glyph is cool though!
Gems / Enchants / Stats
General Priorities for Stats (Resil is more of a situational Stat that you may want more or less of):
3% Hit>3% Expertise>Strength>Haste>Crit=Mastery>Resil>PvP Power>More Expertise>Other
Resilience gemming has been nerfed in PvP in 5.4 even further. It's still nice to have a resilience set when you find yourself unable to survive, but in most cases it is now better to gem for damage and other useful stats.
Here's an old note for a quick understanding of what Resilience is:
"There's a common misconception that PvP Power negates Resilience. This actually isn't true because Resilience is factored in after PvP Power in a sense. Lets say a Frostbomb hits for 100,000. With 50% PvP Power it hits for 150,000. However, if a person has 50% Resilience, it would hit for 75,000 in the end.
Now lets pretend the Mage gemmed more PvP Power and the target gemmed more resilience. The PvP Power became roughly 60%. The Resilience became 55%.
Frost Bomb not hits for 160,000, but with 55% Resilience it hits for 72,000. This is not the exact PvP Power to Resilience scale; but that should give you the picture that Resilience = generally more damage reduction than PvP Power's increased damage point to point with full PvP Gear.
edit: In the end you can't just go one way or the other for everyone. If you play a class like Enhance Shamans, gemming Resilience is probably smart since they get trained over half the time. If you play a class like Warriors, it's probably good to use PvP Power against non-Casters and Rogues."
Strength and Haste is the biggest damage stat for PvE. PvP Power is really similar to Strength for Rets, increasing Damage and Heals. However, in a previous patch PvP power was nerfed in stat weigh.The best way to go now is to gem for Strength and Haste. Strength is considered better in my opinion because it also helps with your burst heals and burst damage rather than just DPS.
You should always reforge for Hit and Expertise cap rather than gemming for it. This is to increase your other important stats as much as possible.
The biggest argument and most questions I get as a ret now is "What Off Stat?" There is no definite answer here. In my stat priority I listed haste as the best, with Crit and Mastery being similar. I'm going to give you a few things to read and let you decide on your own. In PvE, Haste is the best followed by Mastery and then Crit. However, PvP is different. Critting affects everything we do in PvP including heals, and our ranged damage such as judgement which mastery doesn't help. Mastery is probably our best stat for actual burst in single globals. I choose Haste as the most valuable cause it affects most of the things we do, including cast time, DOT damage, lower judgement cooldown for faster sprinting and such, it's also one of the best stats for pure consistent damage. I choose crit vs mastery as nearly equal, because I feel if you can melee a lot, mastery is better. If you end the game in Wings, mastery is better for Hammer of Wraths. If the game prolongs and you have to kite or line of sight a lot, Crit is better. Take these factors into consideration, and make your own choice!
Meta - 216 Strength / +3% Crit Damage or Tyrannical Meta Gem (Have both Helms ready, Strength meta still does more damage / burst while Tyrannical Meta Gem is better for surviving)
Red - 160 Strength
Yellow - 80 Strength / 160 Haste
Blue - 80 Strength / 160 PvP Power
Get 3% Hit Cap
Get 3% Expertise
Get the off-stat off your choice. I recommend Haste>Mastery=Crit.
Head - None
Shoulders - 200Strength / 100 Crit
Back - 180Hit or 180Crit
Chest - 200 Resilience or 80 to all Stats
Wrist - 180 Strength
Hands - 170 Strength
Legs - 285Strength / 165 Crit
Feet - 140Mastery / Run Speed
Weapon - Tyrannical Weapon Enchant, 400PvP Power / 200 Resilience / Disarm Reduction, have Dancing Steel weapon ready for teams without disarm.
A previous patch buffed Seal of Justice due to the Sword of Light change, but I find censure to still be the best.
For a simple answer: Censure
Here is a more complicated answer:
Generally for any target you are staying on for 10+ Seconds, Truth is the highest damage dealing seal.
For a game where you don't have burden of guilt, and you're swapping a lot, Seal of Justice could be better. A composition such as Ret / Shadow Priest / Resto Shaman for example has no slow.
Seal of the Righteous is good for AOE, this is very rare in PvP. I've probably swapped it once in the entire expansion.
Healing Seal is good for when you're getting trained, or desperately need mana. Another rare seal to use.
Viable Ret Comps
Viability's definition is different for each person. Just about anything can be ran to gladiator range (I've ran triple pally, 2 hunters + ret, 2 priests + ret to gladiator and higher range in 3s)
Doesn't really matter. Use any professions that give strength or attack power gains. Blacksmithing is really good since it can give you Resilience if you choose to do so. Jewelcrafting also can give you Resilience, these professions give you choices on what you want to do. Engineering is very strong for burst since most people will now use the "Proc" trinket rather than "On-use" unless you're human. The engineering gloves does share CD with On-Use trinkets.
What rotation do you use in PvP?
There is no "specific" rotation in PvP.
The best I can give you is this in terms of a PvE Damage Rotation:
Less Than 5HP up:
Keep Inquisition up with 3HP>Exorcism>Hammer of Wrath>Judgement>Crusader Strike>Templar's Verdict
Everything is situational. Keep note that our hardest hitting ability will be Templar's Verdict, which also clashes with Word of Glory as both takes holy power.
What macros does Ret have for PvP?
Most of Ret PvP Macros look like this:
/cast [target=party1] Word of Glory.
You can basically fit in 1-4 for 1, and Word of Glory with Sacrifice / Freedom / Hand of Protection and you'll have most of the Macros I have. I only have 1-2 for most of them, and 1-4 for WOG for 5s. 1-4 for everything was a bit too overwhelming for me. (Not Enough Buttons + Too Crazy lol)
There are people who simplifies this by using mouseover macros and such, all personal preference. Add #showtooltip to the start of these macros if you want to see it.
Some other general macros:
1.) Start Attack + Crusader Strike
/cast Crusader Strike
2.) Start Attack + Templar's Verdict
/cast Templar's Verdict
3.) Focus HOJ
/cast [target=focus] Hammer of Justice
4.) Focus Repent
/cast [target=focus] Repentance
5.) Switching Between 2H and Shield
/equip [equipped:Shields] Your2HWeaponName
/equip [noequipped:Shields] your1HWeaponName
/equip [noequipped:Shields] YourShieldName
6.) Camera Distance *This is the Camera I used to use, I'm going default max zoomed out now though*
/console cameraDistanceMaxFactor 4
7.) Focus REBUKE
/cast [target=focus] Rebuke
8.) Focus Judgement
/cast [target=focus] Judgement
9.) Cancel Bubble
/cancelaura Divine Shield
10.) Cancel Wings
/cancelaura Avenging Wrath
The Support Macros I Personally Use:
(switch x with number or partyx with Toon Name)
13.) Hand of Protection
/cast [target=partyX] Hand of Protection
14.) Hand of Sacrifice
/cast [target=partyX] Hand of Sacrifice
15.) Hand of Freedom
/cast [target=partyX] Hand of Freedom
16.) Word of Glory
/cast [target=partyX] Word of Glory
17.) Flash of Light
/cast [target=partyX] Flash of Light
As said with almost everything, Macros have a lot to do with personal preference. You can also use modifiers for different skills in your macros such as Repent. Use these only as a general guideline and form your own macros!
Gearing Ret for PvP
You can basically use all the PvP Gear and you'll do great!
Unless you're human obviously you would use the trinket that removes all impairing effects.
For your second trinket, I recommend a Strength proc trinket. If you're human I recommend using an On-Use PvP trinket to replace the medallion. You want to use double PvP trinket now due to it giving bonus resilience which is HUGE. Rets are an extremely common train target.
General Arena Tips
Ret is a very strange spec, it's place in arena is rather vague. We have good burst damage during wings, but outside of that we're a bit gimped. We have INSANE off heals and good support, but we're also incredibly easy to CC as a melee class which throws everything off.
As a ret pally, you always have to remember you ARE NOT a warrior. You need to watch your partners the entire game. Do not waste your extremely insane off heals, freedom, BOP, Sac. You are a support class that can burst once every 2 minutes! In an arena match my eyes are on my party screen the most.
If you are playing with a DK or Warrior or Rogue, be considerate about your freedom. In 3s, I almost NEVER freedom myself. You can cleanse most of your roots, and my death knight can kill people around 2 times faster than me, why would I freedom myself?
Ret PvP Stream
http://twitch.tv/VanguardsTV - My (Vanguards) Twitch.TV Stream! Be sure to follow!
Ret PvP Page / Question Page
Ret PvP Videos
Check out these channels:
Thanks for reading, I hope this helped you out. Post any other questions you have! If you have specific questions for me, try posting them on my facebook page.
By Vanguards / Sam
http://twitch.tv/VanguardsTV - Stream (Follow to know when I'm live!)
http://twitter.com/VanguardsTV - Twitter
http://facebook.com/Samk920 - Facebook
http://youtube.com/SamK920 - YouTube Videos
Posted Artofmage on 19 February 2014 - 06:53 AM
Posted Nadagast on 21 February 2014 - 12:09 AM
Trolling and assholery puts AJ on a downward spiral. People troll/asshole-it-up, which leads to less people using this as a forum for serious/reasonable discussion, which leads to more trolling, etc. AJ always was and continues to be the most popular place for new players to get into the PvP scene. Any community relies on new members to sustain itself--by making this place a wasteland we are doing nothing but ensuring our own demise.
Before you post a reply or topic, ask yourself: am I being an asshole? If you are, change your post to take a more educational tone. If you're feeling heated about something, take some time to cool off before replying. Don't immediately assume someone is trolling you, some people are just not very knowledgeable. Worst case, if you reply in a calm educational manner, you've posted something informative for the hundreds or thousands of lurkers who will view your reply. These are generally newer PvPers, and anything you do to help sustain them as arena players helps all of us.
On any set of forums, it's easy to forget that almost all of the people reading it are lurkers, who will never make any posts. Lurkers cannot be trolls, they can't be assholes, they are just here to learn or read interesting things. Post interesting, informative content. Post drama if you want, but don't be an asshole. Fuck the trolls, post for the lurkers.
Posted Feliclandelo on 18 February 2014 - 10:38 PM
10-12 yard pummel? Why not just give Warriors fucking counterspell while you're at it LOL. Boohoo you can't AoE interrupt half of Asia with 1 button anymore, guess you just have to keep doing unhealable and unpeelable damage.
Posted Marshmellow on 12 February 2014 - 07:00 AM
Posted Bigmoran on 18 February 2014 - 04:26 PM
Anyway, just like last season here is the list of the TRYHARDS of SEASON 14.
Winning the title for two years in a row is HEUHEUEHUEHUE Brasil DK Vigaboy. Previously known as Vigarista and Vigaboyswag, this DK (who honestly plays like an Honorbuddy profile) farmed 1-2 point wins from 2470~ to safe Rank 1 rating.
Once again, this clever little bastard has backpeddled his way to another rank one title.
If this were the Olympics, Brasil would have a huge lead over everyone at this point. I say this because the tryhard druid of s14 is also a HEUHEUEHUEHEUHE BRBRRBRBRBRasil. If it wasn't obvious enough at this point, I am of course talking about Rynd. This emotional train wreck of a human being has five druids, most of which are getting rank 1. You trying to compensate for something there buddy? I hope it's your inability to grow a mustache.
Claiming the title of tryhard hunter is bucktooth Shaman Goat cleaver Tonystyle. At the beginning of the season he would queue Ret/Hunter/Shaman for literally hours every day. This guy had nearly 1500 games played at the START of the season running only ONE comp.
When he's not making donuts at Tim Hortons or yelling "DUDE DISPELL ME WHAT THE FUCK" to his teammates, Snaregodx is actually a pretty swell dude. This high calibur frost mage made it big this season, climbing his way to rank 1 of the ladder. I hear from some of my colleagues that his success in arena is due to him gemming full dodge and speccing into blazing speed when some other mage ques arena. Well praise Jahllah, because Snaregodx won his race against to Kwok to achieve rank 1 on multiple mages.
I couldn't really think of anyone relevant to put in this category. So instead I am opting to give this award to Ssjwindgodx aka Ssjwindvipx. If you don't hate him already because of his name, this black guy runs double monk (MW/WW) in 2s for multiple hours at a time. Cmon man, it's black history month. Live the dream and queue some 3v3.
It's been a while since he graduated from Bongwater University with a degree in Wind Raiding, but Eliteqt has certainly made a splash on the ladders this season. I'm sure it had nothing to do with playing with Jahmilli, but Elite climbed high on the ladders on three paladins (not to mention some obvious carries, but hustle over bitches amirite?)
I'm not sure if he is even capable of reading, but winning the tryhard award for priest is Dibbz. When he's not taking vodka shots off his bros' bellybuttons, he is spam queuing fire mage godcomp with Hansol, lord of fire. If you need some insight into the life of a sexually confused rich kid who pops his collar, drop by his stream every once in a while. Ignore the subpar shadow priest play and focus on the two shirtless dudes in the background playing ping pong.
Jax. Not much to say here.
It's a bit ironic that the tryhard shaman comes from a server commonly abbreviated ED, because this guy certainly has a big dick with the moves he pulls against streamers. Playing four shamans, each with a unique kickbot profile is Kallis, some idiot that got high ratings running Honorbuddy cleave.
Winning the title once again is Dota. It seems he has gated in and out of ~3 online relationships during this season, causing him to name change every time. His names this season went from Juliaxo to Cleanupxo to Marilynxo to Marixo. Either he is just copying the lyrics of Mambo #5 or he genuinley has been the victim of some serious /cast seduction. (jesus christ i feel like Perez hilton at this point - hold me, dan)
The tryhard warrior of this season goes to 40 year old Korean father Irub. He played multiple warriors this season, each time running KFC with some of his other squinty eye friends. The main reason he is a tryhard tho is because of his ability to create a Great Wall of Texts on AJ, none of which people give a single fuck about.
Subsribe to my YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/bobrosslol
Posted Regent on 18 February 2014 - 09:08 AM
Anyone else been playing the PTR? Should be an...interesting... season if it goes live the way it is.
Mages don't seem to be as strong on the PTR, which I definitely like. Still have really good CC but damage didn't scale proportionately (seems more inline now).
WW monks are the most frustrating class, with increased parry rate/dodge rate and increased healing they have insane survivability vs melee, even 1v2'ing double melee. Their damage is pretty high too, for the mobility and survival they have.
Enh is what everyone thought, retardedly broken burst but still pretty much the same as live.
Ele is really good, insane survivability and healing almost as much as healers. Lava burst might be bugged on the PTR though as it was hitting for 120k with no CDs up which seems absurdly high?
Warriors damage didn't seem to scale as much as other classes, still okay.
DKs damage is pretty good but the insane damage of their counter classes makes them a non-factor, probably not viable at all outside of ele/dk? Maybe not even then.
Rets still awful, healing still feels weak, increased burst makes them bubble almost instantly and then die right after.
Boomkins seem really strong, the damage scaled really well and they can indefinitely heal through second target damage with only instants. Might be one of the new FOTM.
Feral damage is decent, same problems as on live but strong heals.
Rogues do insane damage, especially combat. Still die really fast but it didn't seem to matter much since everything I hit melted instantly. I see a lot of Warrior/Dk/Rets rerolling combat if it goes live.
Warlocks seem really tanky, but thats probably just due to how strong the hybrids healing is. Warlocks can probably backpack off of Eles and Boomkins and be really good.
Healing Priests seem really good again, but probably just because of how burst the game is and how their cooldowns react to that. Return of Disc maybe? Games end in a few seconds either way and Disc has really good CDs for that.
Resto Shamans have the highest heals I have ever seen, but not sure if it matters much since they tend to get cc'ed and their partners one shot.
HPals seem decent, all the things they are good against are really weak now though.
Didn't really face any MW as most were probably having fun as WW rolling over everyone.
I'm pretty interested in s15, because I think its going to be pretty imbalanced, but in a way it has never been before. Rise of triple hybrid 3s inc?
Posted KPul on 17 February 2014 - 02:30 AM
Posted Snuggli on 15 February 2014 - 08:50 PM
Posted Bigmoran on 05 February 2014 - 10:02 PM
go away irub
Posted mirox on 03 February 2014 - 01:20 AM
When there are no pillars and specific talents to use vs mage, strategy is:
Posted TaKnemdwn on 26 January 2014 - 07:00 PM
Next in line, maximize your crit in whatever way possible, plausible, reasonable. This is going to be the game changer for you.
Now the fun stuff. You're going to be facing a Warrior... 9/10 games. Actually, lets put it 9.5/10. If you're not running with a druid to clone him all game - you're going to die. He will go through all your CDs and laugh, and keep going until you're dead. That's why I picked up the MB glyph. With my current crit value, this shit procs more often than not. It really throws them for a loop, thye have no idea what the fuck I jus used. I always use my first orb to disarm them, then I place a fiend next to em, because you know they're going to blow their Berserker as soon as that first fear hits them. Which is good news for us because their storm will be weaker, more easily absorbed... This is about the time I guise because I need to do some clever placement to get my first VT off. You already know that charge is coming, so might as well fade for the extra -10% dmg mitigation. He's gonna be hitting you hard and you already used 2 CDs. From here on, its more feathers and hoping for procs, eventually... you will have enough orbs to DP and double Spike, this is when I use my silence, because I like them to think I'm a noob and have no idea what's going on. It leaves people more open to mistakes. Mongoloids are used to the same tired gameplay, the only way to beat these kids is with clever use of spells at times they dont expect. Don't run ever run in guise in no man's land to land a Psychic Scream. Always use it defensively. That's why you have the fiend - that's your offensive fear.
Mages are going to be hard to find, good ones even harder, but when you do. Treat them like you would a girl. They will be the only ones to compliment you in today's WoW. Shadowfiend is going to be your sickest dps burst, which is why I save it for my second silence... they won't have enough CDs left to counter it, thats when the magic happens. Double orb disarm here for extended horror play - you want that little shadow critter to get as many hits as you can. He hits hard and loves giving mana back like its his job. But he's easily CCd and very kitable.
There are more things you will learn with time, but I'm not getting paid for this so enjoy and best of luck.