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KionneMember Since 09 Aug 2011
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Posted Klyftigt on 19 October 2013 - 09:58 PM
keep pretending you have to cast to do retarded burst.
Stop trying so hard to be a smartass. He clearly means the burst is HIGHER if he gets to cast a few frostbolts, than if he would just spam lance, not that its not much damage, but its not optimal compared to getting the frostbolts off before. Got it bro? And by bro, I never mean my bro, faggot.
Posted zenga on 10 October 2013 - 10:46 AM
''What feels better'' is a highly subjective thing. Not related to warriors, but I've seen top players on live stream make gem/reforge changes, play 3 games where they get a bunch of crits and then immediately make stat claims as if they were fact.
Simcraft is not a pve-only tool, it can simulate everything. Making up numbers for the sake of the example, but say as a melee that you find yourself having 25s uptime on your target per minute, and that you have 2 targets where you keep a dot up for 80% of the time, then you can mimic that situation fairly accurately in simcraft and get stat weights based on that situation.
Seen a lot of people who run with recount to analyse their damage component, using simcraft (and actually modifying the default profiles) is just taking it 1 step further. But regardless how far you go, analysis based on actual data beats 'how it feels imo'.
Posted Neitey on 28 September 2013 - 11:49 PM
Posted ROKMODE on 24 September 2013 - 01:53 AM
Posted Capstone on 18 September 2013 - 06:28 PM
Posted Vadren on 05 September 2013 - 10:27 PM
I'd be very cautious of trusting anyone's opinion who is 'sure' of the best stat for PvP. PvP is hard/impossible to simulate or predict which makes it just as hard/impossible to calculate what stat will give the best results and so anyone 'sure' probably doesn't really know what they're talking about.
Most people choose the best stat for PvE because that is generally considered a known, but in pvp you have to balance survival, damage, utility and consider how they lead to kills. In PvE only damage is important. And even then pve sims are based on a different ability priority so a simulation with a more PvP friendly rotation (more coi, icy touch, necrotics and possibly slower rune recharge due to blood presence) may give different results.
Anyway - what is clear is that each stat has advantages. It's up to you to decide what you'd rather go for and what feels better for you.
Haste - Faster rune recharge means do more (better utility, more necrotics, faster auto attack and faster gargoyle casts). Allegedly higher dps when actually connecting with your target (proven through pve sims).
Mastery - Better spread damage, dot damage, bigger death coils and bigger soul reapers. Bigger number on the score board.
Crit - Higher chance of a crit soul reaper winning the game. Slightly more dot damage. Higher chance of chain crits that scare opponents into using defensive cooldowns.
Personally I prefer being able to do more when I'm actually connecting with a target rather than when I'm sitting in CC. Also high haste just seems more fun to me and since there isn't actually a clearly better stat I prioritize that over everything.
Posted Fizion on 15 September 2013 - 12:30 AM
but untill then, you guys need to relax the fuck up!
You need to grow up and stop being a sack of shit faggot. NO ONE likes you. If you died the person who posted it would get 100+ rep. Do you really like being "that guy"? The one that absolutely no one likes and wishes bad things to happen to you and you're family.
Posted substance on 14 September 2013 - 03:06 AM
but untill then, you guys need to relax the fuck up!
In ten years if you are still thinking about the AJ community, We will be laughing my friend.
Posted Takkitwang on 13 September 2013 - 08:39 PM
Posted Rofrot on 13 September 2013 - 07:53 PM
Posted Veev on 13 September 2013 - 12:41 PM
In 2v2, this would start at 5 minutes, last for 10 minutes (causing most games to probably end about halfway through the debuff), and allow 5 minutes after before declaring a tie (though a tie should never happen in legitimate play).
In 3v3 and 5v5, it would start at 10 minutes, last for 10 minutes, and cause most games to end no later than the 15 minute mark.
This is better than a damage increase, in my opinion, because it still allows for kills to slowly happen, rather than increasing the chance one of the teams instagibs someone. From a spectator POV, it still allows kills to be gradual and exciting. "The Crowd Chose You" is just the most anticlimactic finish imaginable for an arena game, and encourages really awkward play if you manage to get someone to block or use cooldowns at low HP (which should be rewarded on their part, not punished).
(Consider tweeting a dev this post ID if you like this idea.)
Posted Nightmonkey on 02 April 2013 - 12:41 AM
The guides that are currently stickied to the top of this Forum are more of a history lesson than anything else. I thought it would be a good idea to post an up to date one. If this guide looks familiar, it's because I used the same format that Vanguards used for his Ret guide. I found Vanguards' guide very helpful and well laid out, so hopefully he doesn't mind.
What changed about Holy in 5.4 for PvP?
Holy got a few buffs in 5.4. Overall none of it is drastically game changing.
Divine Plea no longer reduces your healing by 50%. Bout time.
Illuminated Healing (mastery) no longer procs from hots. Minor nerf to Eternal Flame.
Guardian of Ancient Kings has a lower cooldown and copies your healing onto your target.
Holy Insight now increases Eternal Flame and Word of Glory by 50% (up from 25%)
Holy Shock's mana cost reduced by 50%
Judgment mana cost up to 12% from 5% of base mana
The highlighted talents are the most commonly used talents for Holy Paladins. This is not a definitive selection of talents as they all have their different uses.
Speed of Light: the best choice in my opinion. This talent provides a burst of speed that is not on the GCD and can be used while silenced. This means that you can always use it exactly when you need it.
As Holy you won't always have the GCDs to spare to get a sprint through Long Arm of the Law when you really need it. Pursuit of Justice is nice as well but in my experience it won't save your life or help you get into range to land HoJ like Speed of Light will.
Fist of Justice, Repentance, Evil is a Point of View
I've lumped all of these into one category because they are all viable. The biggest thing you need to consider when you choose one of these is what CC's your team currently has, and which of them share a DR with your talent choice.
Ideally you want to choose a talent that does not share a DR with your team's main sources of CC. For example, if you are playing with a Warlock you probably shouldn't use EPV. Repentance is questionable too because it breaks on damage, and Warlocks like to dot things up. In this case Fist of Justice would probably be best.
This is the train of thought that you should go through each time you play a different comp.
Eternal Flame: This is the one to get.
Sacred Shield: Even with the changes to Sacred Shield in 5.4, I typically do not use it. This is a complete flip flop from what I used to have in this guide. I used to think it was great until I started using Eternal Flame more often, now I never want to use anything but Eternal Flame. I can't really think of a situation where Sacred Shield would be preferable to Eternal Flame.
I do not recommend Selfless Healer to Holy Paladins. This is because of all of the spread damage going around, the increase to Judgment's mana cost, and the fact that you need to spend 3 GCD's before this talent really kicks in. Any good Warrior will use Thunderclap to spread Deep Wounds, and that damage alone will eventually put you behind in healing without Eternal Flame.
Clemency: the preferred choice most all of the time for me. This talent allows you to give freedom to your team mates, yet still have 1 charge available to you in case you get switched to. It also allows you two get out of jail free cards against CC that breaks on damage through Hand of Sacrifice. Also with 2 charges on Hand of Protection you should almost never find yourself coming up short on immunities for yourself or your team mates.
Unbreakable Spirit: The change to this ability puts it on par with Clemency. This is the talent to use if you are having trouble with wizards, or you are simply getting trained a lot. This is something you will benefit from changing on a game by game basis depending on what will help the most.
Hand of Purity: also a viable choice, though not one I typically recommend. It is a highly specialized talent that is only really useful against teams with more than one DoT class. The 10% damage reduction that they added to it in 5.2 doesn't even begin to make up for all the utility you lose from not using Clemency. This is a talent you will only use against certain teams, but in those specific situations it can really shine.
Divine Purpose: a really strong and random talent. Sometimes it will proc exactly when you need it, sometimes it won't. It can completely turn games around if it procs back to back when somebody is low, which seems to happen frequently because of its high proc chance.
Holy Avenger: also a very strong talent, but it is not random. This talent is for somebody who does not like RNG and would prefer on demand burst healing with a cooldown. I typically choose this talent for RBG's and sometimes for 5v5. This talent gives you another button to press when things really start getting wild.
I have experimented with Sanctified Wrath in the past, but I do not feel like it is as strong as the other two. I think Holy Avenger provides better controlled burst healing, and Divine Purpose will probably do more for you over the course of a match.
Holy Prism: the only real choice for PvP. The cooldown on the other two talents is far too long for them to really be viable. Be careful not to use it on a friendly target if they are standing near an enemy player that is CC'd by something that breaks on damage (Freezing Trap, Polymorph, etc) because the Prism will break them out of it. Try and make an effort to use this on an enemy player whenever you can because it actually does a ton of spread healing. This is especially important/useful in RBG's.
Light's Hammer might be useful since 5.2 added a snare to it, so it works like a 14 second AOE snare. If you feel like you don't need the superior healing from Holy Prism you might find this useful as a kiting tool. Execution Sentence used to be a cool talent until they changed PvP Power to not benefit healer damage. The new dispel protection on it makes it more attractive, but I still would not recommend it.
Beacon of Light (highly recommended) - I always use this glyph. It is amazing.
Flash of Light (highly recommended) - Gives a nice little boost to your next heal after flash.
Divine Protection - Use this as your third against any double physical damage team.
Glyph of Devotion Aura - If you are not playing with wizards, this is a strong choice
Gems / Enchants / Stats
Priorities for Stats:
This is an area of a lot of discussion and debate for Holy Paladins. I would actually like some input here, but I will try to present several options as best I can.
Intellect and Spirit are your two main stats. You want both of these stats on most of your gear. Paladins don't really have mana troubles these days. They do have troubles with getting chain CC'd though, so you want whatever few heals you can get out in between CC's to be strong.
Mastery and Crit are the two secondary stats that tend to attract the most controversy. After experimenting with a Mastery setup and a Crit setup, I think Crit is probably superior. The sheer number of procs you get from Holy Shock really starts to feel mandatory in today's arena environment.
I feel like Haste deserves a mention as well because Paladins have a fair amount of abilities that benefit from it. Sacred Shield, Repentance, Blinding Light, and every casted heal all benefit from Haste.
At the end of the day, whatever feels best to you is what you should do. After personally trying full mastery, full haste, and full crit, my personal opinion is that crit seems to be the best.
PvP Power and Resilience:
Blizzard turned PvP Power and Resil on it's head. The gems have been severely nerfed and your base PvP Power and Resil will mostly come from your PvP gear. Your weapon and trinkets are your most important pieces for these stats, use the PvP pieces in these slots.
Meta - 432 Spirit / +3% Critical Effect or your personal preference
Red - 160 Intellect
Yellow - 80 Intellect / 160 Crit (or Mastery)
Blue - 80 Intellect / 160 Spirit
Shoulders - 200 Intellect / 100 Crit
Back - 180 Intellect
Chest - 200 Resilience
Wrist - 180 Intellect
Hands - 170 Mastery
Legs - 285 Intellect / 165 Spirit
Feet - 140 Mastery / Run Speed
Weapon - Jade Spirit
Off Hand - 165 Intellect
This is where the personal preference and a lot of debate comes in. I used to prefer to reforge out of Haste/Crit into Mastery. Now I do the opposite and reforge into crit. I reforge into Spirit wherever I can, though I think it's just one ring and your weapon where this is possible. It's hard to go wrong really.
Viable Holy Comps
Once again I think Holy Paladins are kind of in a rough spot this season. I don't think they're the worst but they're definitely not the best either.
To be honest I haven't played very much this patch, but it looks like your best option will be to make friends with a good Warrior if you haven't by now. Once you have that taken care of, add in just about anything else and you have something that has potential to get to high ratings.
Some of the most notable Paladin comps in no particular order:
General Arena Tips for Holy Paladins
Make sure to keep rebuffing Might/Kings as long as your team is above 85%. In 5.3 the mana cost came down on these buffs significantly, so this is even easier to do now.
Prioritize dispels on your most supportive classes. When your team is going offensive make sure to dispel CC that is "full" to maximize uptime for your mongoloid team mate.
Also just be really vocal with team mates when you don't have trinket or bubble, letting them know the other team is about to swap onto you before they do could really change the outcome of their swap.
I don't use a ton of macros, but I find the ones I use to be absolutely essential. I'll put a couple here, maybe someone will find them useful.
Mouseover Cleanse & Self Cleanse
/cast [target=mouseover, exists] [help] [target=player] Cleanse
/cast [target=Player] Cleanse
My personal Preference is to use a Mouseover macro for cleansing. You hover over somebody's raid frame, name plate, or character and then use this macro. I didn't like how it behaved when I tried to self cast it, so I made another macro and bound it to ALT + my cleanse binding. You can replace Cleanse with any other ability in this macro if you like how it works.
Psyfiend Turn Evil
#showtooltip Turn Evil
/targetexact [noharm] Psyfiend
/use [harm]Turn Evil
If you're too lazy to manually target the Psyfiend. I don't actually use this one, but some may find it useful.
#showtooltip Devotion Aura
/cast Devotion Aura
#showtooltip Hand of Sacrifice
/cast Hand of Sacrifice
The purpose of these macros is to stop whatever your character is currently doing and cast a more important spell. This is usually only used for very important spells that are time sensitive such as Bubble, Devotion Aura, Hand of Sacrifice, etc. It makes sure that the important spell goes off when you press the button, no matter what else your character may be doing.
Adding Party1,2,3 targeting support to your macros
Personally I do not usually use this style of macro, but they are very useful and considered by most to be the proper way to use macros. The idea is that for some (or all) of your abilities there are 2 to 3 different binds that cast the same spell, but on a different person.
Here is an example:
Let's say that R is bound to Cleanse. Pressing R will cleanse your target if you have one, or will cleanse yourself if you have no target. Now let's say you want to change things up and use a Party1,2,3 macro for cleanse, so you bind R to this macro:
/cast [target=Party1] Cleanse
When you activate this macro you will always cleanse the first person in your party, no matter who you are targeting. So at the minimum for 3v3 also need a macro/binding to cleanse your other partner and yourself.
Now that you know how the Party1,2,3 macros actually work, here is how you apply them. Arena1,2,3 macros work exactly the same way to target your opponents, so just replace "Party" with "Arena."
/cast [target=Party1] Any Spell Here
I felt like Holy Paladins deserved an up to date thread covering some of the basics. The purpose of this guide is to help new and returning players that may not know what a lot of the new stuff does.
I welcome any constructive criticism or additions. This is not intended to be a flawless and complete guide, just the basics. I'm not claiming that my word is gospel or that I am the best Paladin, this is only intended to be a basic helpful guide - so please don't flame.
If you liked what I had to say, you can follow me on Twitch, but I don't stream that often:
Posted Thaya on 05 September 2013 - 09:34 PM
However, 2v2 discussion is something I'd like to promote.
There's A LOT of people who simply don't have the motivation/will/time/partners/whatever to commit to 3s. It is a very, very complex bracket, and I'm not talking about skill ceiling or learning curve (<- these things: infinite discussions, please don't follow up). I'm talking about just the sheer amount of knowledge, mechanics, techniques and setup required even for moderate success, thrown on top of a very fast and unforgiving dynamic (relative to everything else in WoW), along with communication and synergy with two other people, which means more responsibility for the individual. Of course, those two other people need to have a similar sleep/raid schedule as yours, and the specs you play will have a huge impact on effort/success, which will change every patch.
Success in 3s takes commitment even from veteran players. Remember people used to complain about "arena elitism" and high rated player circlejerk (probably still do)? A negative phenomenon on its own, but it has very specific reasons to exist (apart from the obvious social reasons): too many things have to "click" for a successful 3s team to exist. I intentionally don't define "success" because it's relative, but the concept is the same: people are lazy, which is natural, they want to jump straight to fun, not go through sorting out stuff they've already sorted before. It makes sense.
As a result, we have tons of nerds and cool kids who idle in duel zones without ever dueling, teamless, ignoring all whispers, quietly plotting how to get max rating with min effort.
And then we have 2s, where all of this is simplified or gone completely. Here, you can actually just pew pew for fun, not just because of the logistics but also because of the pace and less responsibility (just you and your bro). 3s are serious business in comparison to 2s. I mean, if we ignore balance issues, it's completely fair to say that it's much easier to have fun in 2s than it is in 3s, AND it's easier to learn the game in 2s as a bonus.
But maybe titles isn't the right solution. 3v3 should remain the serious business bracket, putting the same rewards elsewhere will devalue 3v3. Titles aren't even a good reward for 2v2, I think the reward should be something much more instant. Gold, for example. 2v2 gameplay should be looked at as well, it doesn't need solid balancing, it just needs a few small adjustments to make dps/heal vs dps/heal bearable, and some specs toolbox to shrink slightly (disable/tax abilities in zones? can't be hard).
Posted Voidbringer on 02 September 2013 - 07:17 AM
In terms of general game design I think that FoJ should be baseline, because now it's just mandatory and it's not doing anything "creative" or "fun" with our arsenal. Literally nobody takes anything else (for arenas). It's also instant, so it doesn't require too much set up (other than getting in range, watching for groundings etc).
TE on the other hand is quite interesting, because it increases the skill cap and forces a player to make a choice: "should I stick to my target and keep on pumping damage or should I play more strategically and try to cc?". If it was instant then it would be too much - sure, but think about it for a second: you need to disengage from your main target (if you imagined a ret flying through the arena like a hunter it's not my fault - blame your brain;)). You also, potentially, waste an important part of your cds to position yourself correctly, cast, juke an interrupt or risk being locked on holy school (i.e. no bubble for you buddy).
In my opinion it would be both fun and interesting, while not being over the top. Seeing as you can't do damage while casting TE and it's not only about the cast time, but you using/wasting time to position, slow the focus target (as originalret mentioned) before it etc etc. Maybe some numbers would then need tweaking, CDs changed etc, but my general point is this: Rets, as well as other classes, should have more choices to make, because it's rewarding and shows skill of a player.
Posted Richie311 on 24 August 2013 - 08:38 AM