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Posted Marshmellow on 25 January 2014 - 03:58 AM
rogues visible during subterfuge
Posted Frostwor on 05 October 2013 - 04:57 PM
Hello guys, lately I have noticed a lot of rogues have moved to assa or even combat, just because sub damage feels low, and people dont know actually what to do as a sub rogue to deal damage. So I decided to make this short guide that will explain some very basic things which I have the feeling a lot of the new rogues or " low skilled" kinda miss and cant enjoy sub because of that. Feel free to correct me if I have written something wrong and etc.
This guide is written for arenas, in rbgs and duels the playstyle and talent choice may differ.
Fast talent choice and why to pick them.
This is a mini dance and allows more damage, control, survivability and also allows you to land your opener much more easy vs teams that have high AoE or very good positioning at the start of the arena.
2) Nerve Strike or Combat Readiness
This is a personal choice to how you play. In general NS is against caster based teams, and CR vs physical based teams. However you can still go with NS vs physical based teams it's a matter of choice.
3) Cheat Death or Elusiveness
Personally Elusiveness is in every way better than CD atm for me. I have seen some rogues pick CD but ± 95% of the rogue elite goes with Elusiveness. CD however is sometimes good and can be changed vs teams that can 1 shot you, like the Elemental shaman teams which can gain 1 proc and global you.
4) Shadow Step
SS gives a lot of utility. It can be used both aggressively or defensively by stepping to your healer, even eating traps some times with it. Another great bonus is that you go behind the target. This means that after it you can use and ability and it will land 100%. E.G. Warrior uses Die by the Sword. SS>Disarm or Kidney will make sure you don't take damage while he uses it and your ability wont get parried. The other choices in this tree are also very good for certain situations but SS is the top one atm.
5) Pray on the Weak
This tallent is the way to go for a sub rogue, the 10% bonus is not only for you but also for your partners. I have seen some rogues using Para poison but just because it is much more efficient when you train a target (which is not what sub does), the root is also helpful but it DRs other roots so its not that good with most rogue comps since your partners already have roots too.
6) Marked for Death
It has 1minute cd which has amazing synergy with Shadow Dance, using 5 combo points for evi or kidney while dancing is insane.
Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins give you the bonus damage from Sanguinary Veins (25%). This glyph saves you time, combo points, and energy. It is very nice and helps out switching to other targets a lot. In other words keep Hemmo dot 24/7.
I will not discuss other glyphs as they don't give you any damage and I want to keep this guide simple. I will just list the useful in pvp.
Blind - (a must have one), Cheap Shot, Garrot, Feint, Cloak of Shadows, Recovery,
Recuperate, Smoke Bomb, Redirect.
There are 3 general ways in which you can open a target depending on how much pressure you want to make. The general formula and the type of CC or DMG ability depends on what CDS the enemy uses and what class he is:
Trick you partner > Premed > Slice n Dice > Opener type > Crowd Control > Damage > Crowd Control > Damage.
Shadow Blades with Subterfuge. This opener uses Subterfuge as a mini Shadow Dance and along with Blades makes insane damage at the start and it is followed later (after DR resets) by the real SD. The tactic is to force a lot of defensive CDs from your enemy and then utilise SD as a lockdown//damage imput and land a kill.
Pure SD opener. Pretty much applying pressure at start again forcing defensive cds, and waiting for the next dance or reset.
Blades and Dance. This is usually used vs targets that dont have safe net abilities like Iceblock and can be killed in the opener if they get too greedy in using defensive CDs or dont get help from their partners.
Slice n Dice.
This may look a stupid topic but a lot of the new rogues dont understand the way energy gain works since this expansion (Cata also ) is not what the game style with energy was before and it feels less punishing but it adds up a lot.
So the reason of keeping slice n dice is not only because it's amazing for the auto atack % we get but because of the energy gain, as a rogue you should try keep SnD as much as possible up but also monitor it closely. Try not spamming combo points in useless refresh of SnD (E.G. you have 20 seconds more and you refresh it to max) because in this way you lose a Evi, Recupe or a KS timing.
The Energy Pulse of SnD
Now here it gets really important and this is the reason I have put SnD as a section in this guide. Rogue's energy regen is base line and adds up a bit from haste but with the current state of the game it doesn't really matter if you have some haste more or less. However, SnD gives you 8 energy every 2 seconds due to Energetic Recovery. The trick is exactly in this. When you start open or try to burst down an enemy and you have 100% of your energy you have to aim in timing exactly the 1st ability you wand on your target with that energy regen tick.
For example: I'm playing 2s as a Rogue dPriest vs Death Knight rDruid. My mass stealth is about to expire and I decide to open on the Dk since i cant find the druid. I sap the dk so that my priest can get a good position and clean the dk from buffs. I do SnD wait for my energy to go max and time my cheap shot or garrot right before the energy tick comes so while my Global cool down is up I will get 8+ energy more, so I have actually reduced the cost of my 1st ability with 8 energy which is a lot.
There are few addOns which can help you in getting used to this energy tick regen but practice makes it the best and in time it will become like an inner heart beat to when the tick procs.
Setting up the kill.
It is incredible how many times I have seen people playing around 2k rating even higher blow cool downs into stupid things and when having a bad position. Most classes have very high stable damage and rely on it to land a kill, so its less punishing. However Sub rogue is not one of them. Sub has very low damage outside of cooldows and needs very good timing and coordination with your team so you can apply pressure and even land a kill. So this is how you do it. (This is the general situation as in arenas a lot of things can change and its not ideal.)
When you see your SD is coming back ask if your partner has any damage cds up, if he doesn't you can choose between waiting for him to get them or just using dance to apply pressure. You can also try set a kill with SD only and your partner helping you dps.
During the time of the burst you must 1st cc the other 2 people from the enemy team so they cant Peel or Heal. Try to do this CC when you see the enemy has no or little defensive abilities and has no shields or hots on him. You can use Evasion or Cloak aggressively so that the enemy cant Peel you but make sure you dont blow such important defensive cds if you have nothing else (vanish etc.) because if you dont land a kill you will be in big trouble.
Pool your energy up to 100% or around it have SnD up and a garrot or hemmo dot on your target to trigger the bonus from Sang Veins. Make sure you have 5cp and TotT your parter.
Land a full KS and Dance with Mark (and Blades if you have)*. What actually happens at the moment is that you'r giving 25% bonus damage to your partner because of TotT and Pray on the Weak this is = to him having a berserker buff in a BG the damage should sky rocket. This is one of the scenarios when the target has nothing to evade this stun. There is no certain formula and you just need to practice it sometimes you will need to CS first to force a CD like blink then kidney and garrot, sometimes you will have to garrot first and so on. Play arenas:)
*Sometimes you can use vanish if your dance is on cd to force a subterfuge mini dance if the timing is good.
The meta game here is that if unpeeled Dance on a naked target with no shields or hots should be able to get him to at least 30% only from your damage and if you are not lucky with your crits.
Dat Damage Outside of Dance.
So far we have seen that Sub dance is very good and the main tool for doing damage unfortunately it lasts only a few seconds, so how do you do damage outside of SD?!
Training a target is brainless because after 3-4 backstabs you drop around 20% of your energy and stick around it meaning you can land 1 stab every few seconds after...
The right way is to pool energy as much as possible while trying to sit on a target with auto attack (you do this mainly to prevent a caster from casting not due to the dmg input). Once you have pulled some energy and you have 5cp TotT your partner and kidney shot this is the best thing you can do (+25% more damage to your partner) if you cannot get a reset and ur getting trained or chasing a healer.
If the enemy is trying to CC you or simply dont focus you and go for your partners try get as many as resets you can. Every time you do so you get a mini dance due to subterfuge and you automatically pool energy while waiting to reset. Dont forget you also gain 5% more damage from master of subtlety every time you go in stealth and not just only that but also find weakness which is one of the main reasons why you reset.
In arena doing the right thing at the right time is the most important thing try pumping your energy into damage when you see the target has no defensive buffs. Trying to hit a warrior while he has a 100k shield from a disc priest with renew will just waste your energy. Try damaging when his shield is down or right after it expires.
Some targets may seem very nice to continue smashing on but that is just a mistake. Pumping damage into a warrior at 40% hp with shield wall up while his healer is free casting heals on him is useless, he wont die. Instead better pool energy while the shield wall is up so you can use it after and apply more pressure.
Another very important part of the game no matter what dps you are. Switching between targets is very important. Many times people run in bad positions and are a good target to atack, sometimes they simply have no shields or hots on them and so on. This is a part of the game that is way too complex to explain in a guide and it takes practice to see when you can make a good switch. But by doing so you will probably not only do some more damage but force a defensive cd which is yet another advantage.
I hope you have enjoyed this guide and will force new players to choose rogue and see the fun aspects in it. This is a very small % of what rogue does in arena since it covers only some very basic tricks and improving your damage. Yet the real thing about rogue is controling your opponent. It would be lovely if some of the top dogs from the rogue community reply in this thread and give some ideas to edit this content.
P.S. Still need to edit typos and add some comas etc. etc. will do it later on.
Posted halcyonx on 17 January 2014 - 11:59 PM
You post in every thread saying how you quit the game and its dead, get a life dude. no one cares.
Posted Bigmoran on 09 January 2014 - 08:40 PM
Posted Gekz on 25 December 2013 - 11:46 PM
why is ironbark, cen ward, and displace usuable while silenced?
why do resto druids have iceblock?
why do resto druids have typhoon?
why is NS a minute cd?
why does rejuv genesis exist?
Posted Braindance on 23 December 2013 - 12:41 AM
2011: Winners were Korean they deserved it
2012: Winners were Snutz Ven Kollektiv, but the team of Another, Cara, Zun had a significant handicap, since they all qualified on Cata and they played the tournament with MoP, forcing all 3 to change classes (since priests rets and dks were trash), while the US team was greatly favored by the patch (frost bomb demo)
2013: Again, they qualify playing a different patch, finals team has a shadow priest which went from good to trash leading to them getting greatly outcomped, on top of a wrong pick from Zun, picking a warrior which is by far the worst melee to pick vs lsd
Last true Blizzcon was on 2011 - you can't expect to have a real event when you invite teams and force them to play a completely different game every time (on top of US teams always getting heavily favored by those changes).
Posted Reedztv on 15 December 2013 - 03:01 AM
Posted ImSoAesthetic on 28 October 2013 - 09:34 AM
Do you think it's gonna be the same again ?
Posted Azaelz on 12 September 2013 - 02:29 AM
Hello again everyone,
I'm here with very good news today as we just found out that our disqualification has been reverted. I'm sure in no small part due to the efforts of everyone here who supported us.
I'm writing this now to thank everyone who helped us in any way, we truly appreciate it. I was overwhelmed by the responses I received in-game, over Skype and in this thread from all the people sending their regards and support, it means a great deal to me personally to have that many friends be there for me when the chips were down.
Hopefully everyone can see now that we were legitimate and that unfortunately Blizzard does sometimes make mistakes.
I'd like to give a shout to Xarkhorin, a Spanish EU game master who did more for us than any other person at blizzard with whom I spoke, he took the time to properly look into our case and it showed. Thank you.
As some of you may know by now the Rank-1 5v5 team on Tichondrius-US (Shindy, Iamzod, Thinkchair, Jyostar & myself (Kisz)) has been disqualified for allegedly participating in "fixed" arena matches.
I'm writing this post on my teammates behalf with the intention to give our side of the story and refute these claims, nothing more. I will not be crying, flaming, linking Skype logs/screenshots or inciting drama of any kind though it may be a long read. I know that the arena community is not what it once was nor do I expect to change the status quo towards online achievements because I would never be so naïve as to think that I could. For those of you who know me personally either in-game or through my stream I would like to think that you know I would never cheat to get ahead, not in real life nor online. I generally never compete in 5s, It's more often than not a corrupted mess of meaningless ddos, win trading, sniping, paid carries and other such nastiness. This time however it did mean something to me which is why I felt the need to bring this here because I can say with conviction that every single one of the games played on our 5v5 team “dont speak english” was 100% legitimate. I've spoken to the relevant people at blizzard and there is nothing that can be done to reverse the disqualification, that's not what this is about.
On the final night there were 3 other high teams queuing that we knew about from observing in-game.
Team 1; Novoz, Thugonomics, Veller, Snaregodx & Dannycarey
Team 2; Sodah, Talbadar, Venruki, Karvinen, Kollektiv & Nadagast
Team 3; Hansol, Dibz, Takenotez, Shapez & Dotatko (apologies if I misspelled any of your names, I feel like you probably don't all have “z” at the end haha)
Events as they happened from our point of view:
TLDR; We played against 2 games against 2 different teams on the final night (Hansol and Novoz) and beat them both legitimately, all parties involved know that there was no foul play and should be able to testify as such. We queued up that night not knowing who we would fight or what the outcome would be.
-We played consistently throughout the season with multiple different people, attaining and holding R1 for a significant portion of the season.
-Going into the last few weeks Team 1 overtook us and we proceeded to leap frog up in rating, eventually ending with our team at 2642 and theirs slightly lower.
-In the following days they queued up and also landed on 2642. We were tied, we accepted that with the knowledge that if any other teams were to approach that rating we would simply queue up again.
-Going into the final day of the season our teams were still equal and that night everybody was online. We knew that Team 2 was queuing and we were waiting to see how they did.
-Team 2 and Team 3 queue into each other 3(?) times and Team 2 is now approaching our rating, we decide to queue up.
-We play Team 3 and win.
-We queue up, we play Team 1 and win. Our rating is now 2673. This is where we ended at.
-Team 3 stops queuing and disbands their team. (found out about this later)
-Team 1 and Team 2 now queue against each other multiple times to try and catch up with our rating. We do not queue at this time because there is no need to until the winner of this series is decided, we had a significant lead.
Fast forward to the final hour and at that point we knew that Team 1 had beaten Team 2 and were close to our rating but we were unable to locate them in-game to check their arena rating. We decided to queue up with very little time left until the server downtime and face Team 1, we kill a member of their team but the server goes down before the game has ended, no points awarded or subtracted from either team. There was no way for us to know what their rating was, we didn't know who was higher until the next day when the armoury came up.
As my final thoughts I'd like to say that I met the Korean team through doing arena on Tich, I live in the UK, they live in Korea and we're both playing on US servers. Despite being across the world from each other, playing in three different time zones and not speaking the same language we were able to connect and enjoy WoW together, this is why I’ve always appreciated the internet and online gaming. The community is what both makes this game great and at the same time threatens it the most. I was very privileged to get to play with them, they are all great people and regardless of this disappointing outcome they earned their rank 1spot on Tichondrius playing arena how it was intended to be played by being friendly, enjoying their time playing and above all being fair and honest in the process.
I appreciate those of you who still make WoW enjoyable and thank you for taking the time to read this wall of text. Best of luck in Season 14.
P.S. It will always be harder to be kind and decent, especially online, but don't think for a second that it's not worth it. Better believe that.
Posted Hawtz on 12 September 2013 - 03:01 AM
Posted Owlrightyden on 12 September 2013 - 12:53 AM
I have never given any IPs from birdcall... I have, however made jokes about it in the past.
I'm assuming you are trying to say I gave your IP and you were on birdcall.. Now that isn't true at all, You were on it so long ago that even if I wanted to look for your IP from birdcall, I couldn't because the logs wouldn't be available. You my friend are victim of a good ole fashioned resolve because you don't know how the internet works.
PS. FYI, when you connect to the internet the gigabytes don't go up to space
Posted Bailamosx on 11 September 2013 - 06:44 AM
As a whole your post seems like a harmless way to self-medicate after an emotional season.And yet, the above quote seems rather peculiar, a vitriolic attack from one homosexual to another. Isn't that like black on black violence, but with like gays or something? Shouldn't you guys be supporting each other? Parading down the street in leopard print thongs and proudly waving your pretty rainbow banners. Seriously. What did he do wrong? Is Rosita not fashionable enough? I mean, look at his name. It's fabulous. Why can't we all just be friends and Skype some Manhole calls?
Posted KPul on 11 September 2013 - 12:38 AM
Posted Pradafiend on 10 September 2013 - 10:27 PM