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MegorixMember Since 11 Oct 2007
Offline Last Active Mar 12 2014 02:55 PM
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- Birthday December 16, 1984
Prince Edward Island
Weed, Wow, and Women.
Posted Bigmoran on 06 March 2014 - 03:34 AM
only plays tree form
Posted Rhee on 05 March 2014 - 02:04 AM
Posted hekumzx on 04 March 2014 - 08:13 PM
Posted Rhee on 04 March 2014 - 06:17 PM
Hi there! I’m Rhee the shaman, and while I’m pretty new to the PvP scene of WoW, I believe I have found success in the shaman perspective of arena combat, allowing me to have ethos for a guide!
My first ever arena season was Malevolent season, where I played a hunter to around 2200 rating. Watching popular shaman streams like Flubbah, Kollektiv, and Cdew inspired me to play one!
My first season as a shaman was Tyrannical, where I found some success – achieving 2400+ rating as shatterplay – but I had to AFK mid-season, which resulted in an absence of any titles. First full season was Grievous, where I achieved 2600 rating and R1 playing numerous comps, and I was very privileged to play with many talented players to get to this level.
Enough talking, lets get to business!
This is pretty much the “Cookie Cutter” talent build to be an effective shaman. With the exception of the level 30 and 45 talent choices.
I’ll provide a rule of thumb, where you SHOULD swap out the “Cookie Cutter” talent for the circled ones above, and explain why.
Use Earthgrab Totem VS Rogues, or Warriors, or Monks, or DKs (Who are NOT paired with a Mage)
Ex) Monk / Spriest / ShamanEx) Rogue / Warlock / Shaman
When used effectively, Earthgrab totem can save your life when the enemy players attempt to make a swap on you.
It disrupts the melee from making contact with you, buying you precious time to react appropriately. And it also disrupts the enemy team’s offensive cool down coordination. While the caster can still hurt you with his cool downs, the melee will have to suffer delay on his cool downs.
Against rogue / warlock or shadow priest teams, you can drop this totem when the rogue attempts to make a swap to you with a vanish or a step + shadow dance combo. It pulses, so dropping it when you know that the rogue is running at you with vanish up will root him in stealth when he gets near you, hopefully wasting his dance or shadow blades uptime.
Against warrior or monks + caster teams, it’s a lot easier to make use of this totem as you can visually see the swaps. Simply drop it when the monk or warrior gets near you and ghost wolf away!
I NEVER swap out Windwalk Totem verse any mage compositions because the freedom aura is simply too good for defensive and offensive reasons. Even against Rogue + Mage, I suggest you use Windwalk even though Earthgrab is extremely potent against Rogues.
This level 45 talent is really up to you. I personally never spec into it because my logic stands that double healing stream, grounding, tremor, freedom, and earthbind are just too good to give up.
However, when used effectively it can help your team out tremendously as you have absolute control of your totems.
If your team can use more CC, “throwing” Capacitor Totems can help your team out in that aspect.
Most shamans do not go this route, but Burbery, who is an extremely successful shaman always specs this, and is really known for this play style, so don’t be scared to try it out and adopt it.
These are set as my “Default” glyphs, and I’ll briefly go over the reasoning beyond them and when I switch glyphs out for specific comps.
Glyph of Totemic Vigor: This glyph basically protects your totems from being easily destroyed, but keep in mind some melee like warriors can destroy it fairly easily. It complements Healing Stream Totem well since its your largest source of healing, and protects it from being one shot.
Glyph of Ghost Wolf: Basically allows you to kite well when enemies target you. Shamans get targeted a lot, and this glyph is a must have when it comes to kiting and surviving.
I will rarely switch these two out, as I believe they are needed for my own survival.
Situational Glyphs (That I swap Healing Stream Glyph for)
I will only swap out Healing Stream when there isn’t a mage, ele shaman, or death knight on the opposing team.
Glyph of Capacitor Totem: Great glyph to use against cleaves that will hit you mainly. Extremely potent against double melee teams as the stun is easy to land.
Tip: This glyph with Earthgrab Totem is a secret weapon of mine when it comes to dealing with melee + caster comps that will try constantly to make a deadly swap to you.
Ex) Against Rogue / Warlock, drop Earthgrab Totem first for the root when the rogue connects with you, step forward a bit, then drop Capacitor Totem so the rogue is not in range to kill it. Watch him get helplessly stunned and then smile since you lived!
Glyph of Cleansing Waters: Okay glyph to use against DoT cleaves such as Boomkin / Warlock / Healer, or Ele Shaman / Warlock / Healer. The small heal scales with vigor so try to keep riptides up on your whole team and this glyph can go a long way when you need to dispel Unstable Affliction.
Glyph of Hex: Okay glyph to use when the other team does not have a de-curse for your hex, or if your team is lacking CC. I don’t use this glyph that much because usually I will be occupied enough to have Hex back off cooldown when I really need it. But it can be extremely effective if your partner’s CC is roughly on the same cool down as Hex with this glyph.
People ask this all the time when I tune into fellow resto shaman streams. But the point is that it really does not matter, and you should test different stats out as I did to find your niche. I’ll go over some popular stat choices.
Pure Crit: Crit rating scales extremely well with shamans because our heals tend to be only potent when they crit. Also, a riptide provides us with a crit bonus for our next two healing surges, so crit rating scales well in that sense as well. We also get mana back when we crit heals!
Pure Intellect: The theory behind this stat choice is so that when you don’t crit, that your heals actually move your partner’s health bar. I rarely see shamans go this route anymore because the amount of crit rating you lose is not really worth it.
Mastery: Some shamans will pick up mastery as their main stat, not really common, but there are successful shamans who go this route. Our mastery basically makes us heal more when our partners are lower, which scales well in my opinion with your passive healing through totems.
My stats revolve around intellect, crit, and spirit. I found that as full crit I sometimes go OOM due to RNG. If I crit, I will top someone off, but if I don’t my healing surges won’t do anything, forcing me to spam surges that quickly burn my mana. So my theory in this build is to have some intellect and spirit to compensate when I don’t crit at all. I’m extremely comfortable with the amount of healing I do when I don’t crit, and I’m never OOM during my arena games, even when it goes to dampening. Also, I like intellect for passive healing via totems since they do not have a passive crit modifier like healing surge.
But… do what you want! Test everything out and see what you like. I think I’ve tested every possible stat combination out there, and this is what I found to be most effective to my play style.
-How to be an effective Resto Shaman-
Shamans are great when it comes to keeping their team-mates up with potent healing and support. Our toolkit, mainly Wind Shear, Grounding Totem, Windwalk Totem, and Tremor Totem allow our partners to stay out of CC and sustain offensive pressure by disrupting the enemy team.
However, Shamans are weak when it comes to survival and you will always be the weakest link of your comp. Shamans are pretty much susceptible to death in any given moment to any given comp. Therefore, you will need to build the skillset of surviving on top of having effective grounding totems, shears, and the like.
Rule #1: Always pretend you are in trouble.
- As I’ve stated before, we are susceptible to death at literally any given moment because we have no defensives while stunned or silenced.
- Learning to be defensively aware should be your top priority.
- Get in the habit of keeping a mental timer on enemy stuns and silences.
- Get in the habit of constantly checking enemy positioning vs yours. As you get more experience you will able to tell easily when the enemy wants to push up for a swap if you position yourself adequately.
Rule #2: Learn to be preemptive
- Our major defensive cool downs require us having to trinket, so learning not to trinket by being preemptive will substantially increase your chances of survival.
- Practice swapping Earth Shield + Riptide before you get swapped to. It can be hard at first, but trust me even the smallest things like this can go a long way for your survival.
- Practice dropping totems preemptively before the enemy team swaps on you. A fresh healing stream will do wonders before a swap lands, and a healing tide will be even better too.
Rule #3: Don’t panic
- Once you get the hang of managing your defensives and get used to the overall damage of arena, the panic will go away when scary swaps come, but I feel like this is often so easily overlooked when I watch other aspiring shamans.
- If you don’t panic, and look at exactly the offensive cool downs of the other team, you won’t waste unnecessary defensives, and therefore increase your time of survival.
- Using your trinket inefficiently and in panic will most likely lead to a loss.
Rule #4: Have a strong presence
- Opposed to other healers like Resto druids, Hpals, or even Monks, Resto Shamans lack CC as our Hex is on a fairly long cooldown.
- Effective healers (druids, hpals, monks) abuse their ability to CC and definitely pronounce their presence in the arena.
- Mediocre shamans have a defensive mindset because they think our class lack the tools to have a strong presence. Top tier shamans use everything to their advantage (shocks, shear, hex) to disrupt the enemy team and declare their presence.
- Don't waste your hex. Try to look for certain situations so that your hex actually does something meaningful and affect the outcome of the game. An example is to look for hexes on the off-target when the enemy player able to decurse is stuck in a minor CC, even something like a DR stun. Its great to hex an enemy mage's partner especially if he is being heavly pressured because it uses the mage's global. You can also hex to stop important casts when your wind shear is on CD. Hexing a enemy healer when he is low is EXTREMELY potent and not used often. The damage threshold to break a Hex is actually pretty high.
- Look for situations to land a capacitor stun. I always look for a situation to land a triple capacitor if the enemy team is stacking up defensively.
Our Defensives (Listed with importance)
Spirit Link Totem
Healing Tide Totem
Healing Stream Totem
Ascendance / Aura Mastery
NS or Ancestral Swiftness
The idea here is to generally use certain defensives first before using the others as each provides higher percentage of survival. With the exception of healing stream of course as you should be using it almost off-cooldown. Its up there due to its potency as a passive healing source.
So, you should look to use NS frequently when the enemy team has ways to interrupt your cast or when your teammate is hovering around 30~50% for a quick heal. Always look to Unleash Elements into a NS Greater Healing Wave, as NS without Unleash won't heal for anything.
Tip: Against teams that are not spread pressure, but rather single target killers, you can use Ascendance before you NS for the extra heal to guarantee that they will most likely be topped off.
Tip: Against teams with obvious patterned CC like Hunter / Melee / X, you can Ascendance before you get put into a scatter shot, and the healing bonus will be applied to HoTs you have active on your partners. Sometimes against hunters I'll just pop ascendance before I know I will get Scatter Shot and throw an unleash riptide on my partner, and they will have a huge HoT when I'm CCd.
Tip: It is FINE to Unleash Elements + Riptide! Its extremely effective when you need a quick heal before you know you will be CCd because it can crit for around 50k, and provide that big HoT. Its super effective verse spread pressure teams, and I believe its one of the most underrated spell combos shamans can do.
Always try to preserve your PvP trinket by coordinating partner cool downs first as the absence of your trinket just makes you a juicy target for 2 whole minutes. I generally like to hold my PvP trinket until I have to Spirit Link, but of course it all depends on the situation.
The general rule of thumb is that when you use your PvP trinket, use a defensive following right after it.
Some examples are:
Trinket -> Spirit Link Totem
Trinket -> Healing Tide
Trinket -> Aura Mastery w/ Ascendance
Grounding Totem is your best friend when it comes to survival. Spam grounding totem when you are stuck in a stun like deep freeze in an attempt to ground the silence effect that is always followed up.
!!: Grounding Totem will only ground magical effects like Counterspell, Spell Lock, and Silence. Won't work for a rogue garrote. You can also spam Aura Mastery during your stun so that when the effect expires you can immune the silence effect.
!!: In certain situations, you can use grounding totem as a cover from magical interrupts to get a cast off. Do this when in a do-or-die situation (when you obviously don't have aura-mastery). Just drop grounding and cast, and hopefully you can ground windshear or a CS.
If your PvP trinket is on cooldown, and the enemy is obviously trying to kill you soon, and your teammates are out of utility, it doesn’t hurt to be “clutch” as it will most likely pay off. Try to preemptively spirit link, healing tide, healing stream, tremor to increase your chance at survival because once that stun lands you are most likely dead anyway.
Earthgrab Totem is your best friend verse melee caster comps (without a mage) that are constantly looking for a swap to you. Abuse this totem to disrupt enemy melee cool downs. Extremely potent vs. rogues, DKs, and monks.
Abuse your shocks and I mean it. Earth Shock decreases physical damage done by 10%, Frost Shock slows enemy players, and Flame Shock can be used for reflects, and dark sims. This is probably the most distinguishing characteristic between a successful shaman and a decent one.
Purge will get rid of enemy shaman’s grounding totem or any other similar effects.
Wind shear will “eat” the reflect effect of warriors, but its better to flame shock so that your shear can be used for a cast instead.
If you shear a mage on a polymorph cast, just hex his ass (mage can’t use Counsterspell if you lock them out on poly) if your hex isn’t that crucial to your team’s CC. Often times, mages will just cast a ring of frost after the lockout and you can’t do anything about it. So hexing to stop a cast is extremely good.
Try to fake Counterspell from casters with a casted hex instead of heals. I found that in my experience casters tend to respond with CS for hex rather than a heal.
You can use Call of the Elements (“Totem Prep”) when you are silenced or kicked. Something you can do to save time during a lockout if you see that all your totems have been used.
Memorize the totem placement pattern.
Fire totems don’t matter, but be wary that your Earth Totems drop on your front-right, your Air Totems drop on your bottom-left, and that your Water Totems drop on your bottom-right.
Learn to hide your healing streams behind pillars as decent players will always look to kill them. So just position yourself so that the pillar is behind you to the right and drop a healing stream, which will hide it from enemy LoS. Healing streams work through walls and z-axis too.
- On a map like Blade's Edge with z-axis, you can drop your healing stream or healing tide underneath the bridge to protect it from being killed and it will heal your partners up top.
Since you know that your Tremor Totem (an Earth Totem), will drop on your front-right, make sure to position yourself to get your partners out of fears or wyvern stings since the range on Tremor is only 30 yards. I’ve seen many shamans “miss” their tremors because its not in range, and weren’t aware of the totem’s position.
Same with your healing stream, you can hide your Grounding Totem against hunter teams to protect yourself for 20 seconds from getting trapped. Same logic, hide it behind a pillar so that you are the only one getting protected from the grounding aura, while your partners are pushed up.
Last but not least. Now you know that your Spirit Link Totem will drop on your bottom left, you can “aim” Spirit Link to make sure your partners will get the health distribution.
Ex) Your partner is a bit far from you, and requires spirit link to survive. You run towards him, and you can jump, and rotate your camera around, and strafe in the air so that your left backside is facing your partner to guarantee the Spirit Link to “hit” your partner. This will allow you to link faster since you won’t have to run to him as much. I essentially call this “throwing your link”.
If you are like me and play with around 200 ms never try to shear fast clone or an Unstable Affliction cast unless it’s preemptive.
Against resto druids, study their movement and try to save your grounding. They usually jump or strafe around when hotting because lolinstant, and will usually stop in place when attempting to go for a soul of the forest cyclone or heal. I usually ground quite a few SotF clones vs druids.
If you need to prep your totems for another tremor, make sure to just use and drop all your active totems like earthbind, freedom, grounding, healing stream, and even capacitor. Wasting any of the above is a big no-no. Sometimes I land random Capacitors with this strategy.
Against a rogue, never trinket the first stun unless you want to spirit link, or if you are at the stage of the game where your defensives are limited or you are likely to die. The idea is to trinket the DR stun and then use your aura-mastery to immune the garrote. Be wary though, rogues will triple DR stun you for a kill.
A rogue will always try to gouge your aura-mastery heals. Just pop it, and run the direction the rogue is facing, also spin your camera around like a maniac if you think he is going to sprint or step gouge.
Drop your fire-elemental totem early vs. a rogue to keep you in combat, and thus protect you from saps.
Don't waste healing-stream by just dropping it off-cooldown. Its best to try to drop it before the next CC lands on you so your partners have the stream to heal them while you are CCd. Same logic goes for Healing Tide. I always try to healing stream or tide (based on enemy offensives used) before I get stuck in a long CC chain, so against a hunter I will try to drop these before he even lands the scatter shot, which will be followed up by another stun or a freezing trap, into a silence.
Learn to have a habit of constantly purging. It will improve you tremendously as a resto shaman. Keeping a mage “clean” of buffs will allow you to sometimes instantly purge Presence of Mind, or Alter Time. But learn to be mana-efficient with it as well, purging is high mana-cost.
Use Mana Tide early, and not when you are at 10% mana. 50% to even 70% is a good threshold to pop it when your healing stream is on cool down.
Look for early drinks constantly if your team has the upper-hand in terms of pressure and defensives. Once you leave combat, drop a healing stream, a mana tide, or even a healing tide before spamming your water button. The totem will drop and you will be allowed to drink.
Some macros that I believe are essential as a resto shaman.
Replace the 1 with 2 and 3 for arena 1~3 macros that will aid you.
#showtooltip wind shear
/cast [nomod, target=arena1] wind shear
/cast [mod:ctrl,target=arena1] hex
/cast [mod:alt,target=arena1] frost shock
- Doesn’t have to be this format exactly, but just have your wind shear, hex, and shock for arena 1~3 bound.
#showtooltip Cobo Cola
/click TotemFrameTotem2 RightButton
/use Cobo Cola
- Destroys your fire elemental totem to go for drinks
/cast [@arena1] Flame Shock
/cast [@arena1] Earth Shock
/cast Grounding Totem
/cast [@arena1] Flame Shock
/cast [nomod] riptide
/cast [mod:ctrl, @player] riptide
- I have self riptide bound so that I don’t have to waste time swapping targets to pre-hot myself before a potential swap.
#showtooltip Water Shield
/cast [nomod] Earth Shield
/cast [mod:shift] Water Shield
/cast [mod:ctrl, @player] Earth Shield
- Same concept as above for earth shield.
#showtooltip Ancestral Swiftness
/cast ancestral swiftness
/cast blood fury
/cast greater healing wave
/script function CompactUnitFrame_UtilShouldDisplayBuff(a,b,c)local _,_,_,_,_,d,_,e,_,f,_,g=UnitBuff(a,b,c)if UnitAffectingCombat("player") then return (e=="player" or e=="pet") and not f and d > 0 and g; else return g end end
- The above script shows your water shield on default raid party frames.
I feel like many beginners tend to clutter their user interface with a lot of information because they are not comfortable with their level of awareness yet. However I strongly recommend keeping it as simple as possible. Using addons is fine to start off, but don't go overboard with it and start with one at a time to get used to them.
Try to keep your field of vision clear so that you can start to be aware of enemy positioning as well as yours and your teammates'.
This is my UI, inspired from Kollektiv's that grants me good field of vision, focus buffs / debuffs, targets buffs / debuffs, my totem frames, and arena 1~3 cast bars.
I hope you have enjoyed the guide, and if you have any questions don’t hesitate to message me in-game Rhee-Tichondrius, I’m always willing to help out or message me on twitch at username Rhee1.
Resto shamans are a great class once you get used to its weak points, and is definitely one of the most constantly effective and potent healers in 3v3 arena.
I don’t stream unfortunately, but you should check out these streams for high level shaman content that you could learn a lot from. Practice and watching streams is how I progressed pretty fast too.
Cdew – twitch.tv/cdewx
Flubbah – twitch.tv/flubbah
Takenotezz – twitch.tv/jakenotezz
Eeluminati – twitch.tv/eeluminati
Kaska – twitch.tv/kaskatv
These guys seriously rock, and studying their globals, and trying to adopt them into your play style or imitating them will seriously improve your level of play in no time.
Posted Eviaax on 04 March 2014 - 04:48 PM
WARNING: WRITTEN ON PHONE***
HLD as Demonology (2450+ exp as this comp)
This is a very strong comp and one of my favorites to run as Demonology and possibly the best in my opinion. For this comp the hunter may play MM or Survival. I prefer survival for the constant pressure on enemy targets and is a good fill in when my burst is down. As for healer, the druid can be swapped for with a sham, monk, pally.
Powerful CC chains
Hard to keep constant pressure if CC’s are not executed
This comp has to be played aggressively which can put you in bad positioning and a venerable target to get swapped on.
Hunter gets pooped on
Glyph of Fear- I use this glyph so that Hunter can trap off my fears. Instead of stunning with axe toss into trap, I could use stun on kill target.
Imp Swarm- No explanation needed
Demon Training- For Grimoire of service/Burst
Unbound Will (to escape cc to get crucial cc on opposing team) / Blood Horror
Grimoire of Service- Imp (for maximum burst and reason why I use demon training as a glyph for the 3 round fire bolts)
Archimondes Darkness- Duh double dark soul
The main goal of this comp is to cc heals and go on a DPS target. We NEVER go heals. It’s crucial while running this comp that we get cc out on heals as soon as possible so that we can use our offensive cool downs immediately to get defensive cool downs from them off the bat. Also were going need those offensive cool downs back up ASAP if we don’t get a kill. So the quicker their back up the better shot we have at winning the game. Gate is obviously a must due to the aggressive play style of this comp. You have to know when to play defensively when you there are no kill opportunities.
The hunter or I will set up cc chain on healer depending on who has a better opportunity. I prefer that I start off cc with a howl into a fear so that the healer can get trapped off of my fear (Glyph of Fear). If we can do that, then most likely we won the game. The possibilities are endless for cc on healer now just because of that opener. On first cc is when I pop my entire cool downs. This includes imp swarm, trinket, dark soul, and Grim of Service (imp). I dot kill target with corruption, hand of gul x2 and doom. That gives me time so that I can keep very strong pressure on target while going back to cc healer if needed. If my cc is not needed I will go into Meta and use touch of chaos for optimal pressure. Like I said we have so many ways to control the healer that sometimes I can apply all my burst on target. We have:
Howl of terror
Carrion Swarm interrupts/ Knock off
This is more than enough cc to have control on the healer for the whole game. So even after burst is done you are able to still apply pressure to your target. Usually if I see the chance to kill the enemy target after my burst I will immediately pop my second dark soul and spam touch of chaos. This is assuming that the cc chain is still going on healer. If not then we wait to get another cc setup on healer so I could pop my second dark soul. If my cc is not needed I will use mortal coil on kill target to get a trinket from him at around 50% then immediately stun him which usually equals a kill. This is the main reason I don’t like to use my stun into a trap. However if I see that it is difficult to cc healer because of LOS I will use stun so I can get that fear off. Usually against shaman healers I won’t bother fearing him but I will let hunter get a sleep off so hopefully that forces a tremor so that we can get a full fear on him afterword.
The burst we have is unpredictable and can change a game completely. We can be completely losing the match and look as if 100% no chance at coming back, but as soon as that chain cc goes out n burst is up its game.
As for kill targets, really anything is a viable option except healers. Really any target you know you can kill immediately or get the most defensive cool downs out of in the shortest amount of time. Usually the healer will be sitting cc at this point and makes for an easy kill.
If the opposing team has a lock then the hunter has to do anything in its power to stop their gate. If that happens it creates an opportunity to go lock if it’s the best target. This would be usually against and LSD team. Even teams such as RMP which will be hard for us to get cc out on healer because of stealth is not bad. If priest opens with fear I immediately un bound will howl and pop cds on mage. This is to counter their opener so they have to play defensively on their cool downs. After we pop cool downs then we set up cc chain on priest. The hunter or I will first get off ward (possibly already off from initial howl) and then feared. I stun rogue and unending resolve silence so it’s a guarantee cc. The priest usually then trinkets that fear due to the pressure that we have and by then I’m already casting my next fear which then leads into our never ending cc. Even when mage blocks the priest will still be cc’d by the time he’s out.
Melee cleaves are pretty easy as they basically have to play very offensive which creates terrible positioning for whatever the target you choose may be. Also don’t be afraid to choose rogues as a main kill target. There’s not much they can do defensively and can literally get killed in one stun.
LSD and LSD2- These are very hard counters because of the peels and utilities they have. Against LSD with ele the best target to go is lock. For LSD2 the best target to go is boomy.
If there is a hunter on the opposing team that will ALWAYS be your main kill target and go to guy. Hunter s get dominitated by this comp.
WLS –Warrior is main target
I am literally writing this all on my phone so I will add more when back. Please feel free to ask any questions.
Posted Unseenz on 23 February 2014 - 02:03 PM
Posted Primius on 21 February 2014 - 11:49 PM
People complain about mages all the time. The thing is this is the rogue forums, and this thread is about Rogues on the PTR not Frost Mages.
Make a Frost Mage whine thread and I am sure you will get a bunch of people in there bitching.
Posted Clickerz on 20 February 2014 - 08:57 PM
Posted Clickerz on 20 February 2014 - 08:21 PM
IT WOULD FIX FERAL, itd make them a much stronger class its just a horrible fix, its like mages all specs having PoM its a bad idea
Posted Forumz on 20 February 2014 - 02:55 PM
If you trinket vs a rogue team that didn't use bomb yet, you are very likely to lose that game. The problem is that they don't even need any CDs to kill someone, so what happens is that you -have- to trinket, either to survive or to save your teammate, and then they still have all of their cooldowns, which they will 100% use on the next stun, while spamming instant CC on the other targets, while the rogue is invisible because subterfuge.
''oh, but that means the rogue got a re-stealth off!'', yeah, indeed. You can't stop all restealths even if that'd be the only thing you'd try to do during a game. And even if you did manage to keep him in combat, he doesn't give a fuck. He'll just vanish instead because he'll force all defensives with it or outright kill you because of it.
If you're defending the way Rogue comps, and mainly Rogue/Mage, work right now, you're just extremely biased.
Posted Korzul on 19 February 2014 - 09:44 PM
You don't make it out of stunlocks, full hots/20% damage reduction? Doesn't fucking matter, you're dropping whilst your healer sits whatever 3-5 sec long instant cc the rogue team can be arsed putting on them. Every opener/dance requires a trinket to survive, burst vastly outscaled the health/resil increases and yes people have problems sitting 7-11 sec stunlocks (+garrotes) when they're dying before cheap shot ends.
Posted Omglockzorx on 09 February 2014 - 06:24 PM
Posted Jahmilli_ on 03 January 2014 - 11:00 PM
The main issue with it is how difficult it is to control, and how little the classes have to do to avoid CC (compared to other comps). People just want simple answers as to why a comp is out of control, and usually those answers come out right as you die, that's when you're most annoyed. "I CANT EVEN FUCKING PLAY MY CHARACTER" or "90K ICE LANCE WHAT A FUCKING JOKE." A lot of people don't really think of what goes on during the entire game, just towards the end when they're dead or about to die. From my experience it seems that most people (mainly casters of course) can't even think of the actual reason why SGX is so miserable to play against, but all of them know that they hate fighting it.
The shaman and the goat PASSIVELY (this is the worst part) make up for some of the biggest weaknesses of EVERY class, (excluding casters). The comp alone is the sole reason a lot of comps are no longer viable, and also the sole reason a lot of classes (mainly physical and healers) are viable.
- RET goat shaman (Ret easily controlled by casters / lacks CC)
- DK goat shaman (squishy / lack CC and mobility)
- FERAL goat shaman (Feral easily feared / very squishy outside of CDs / lacks CC)
- HOLY (Priest/Paladin) goat shaman (Priest and Paladin both easily controlled by casters)
- MONK (WW and MW) goat shaman (MW Monk easily controlled by non warlock/spriest casters, assuming they're undead.)
(WW Monk unique playstyle / very squishy outside of CDs / lacks CC)
- HUNTER goat shaman (Hunter very squishy vs casters / easily feared)
Almost every spec above is NOT viable at a high level outside of SGX.
The hunter alone has enough CC to make up for any that his X lacks, and the shaman alone has enough ways to keep their DPS/Healer out of CC
Goat shaman (especially shaman) is also the bane of any wizard cleave, they are non-existent. The ONLY viable wizard cleaves are ones with shamans, and even those should get demolished by SGX.
The class simplifies and limits any comp its a part of, and any comp it plays against. There is only so much you can do... they lack depth.
Another one of the comps best qualities is how easy it is to maintain proper positioning in comparison to other comps. This mainly has to do with the shaman, and this is also my biggest issue with the class in general. Shamans are an extremely defensive class (If you ever play or watch any 3v3 game go to dampening, 99% of the time there will be at least 1 shaman in the arena), they don't really have any real CC, they are VERY disruptive, and they're the most difficult class to control. It's rare to catch a shaman out of position, because majority of the time there really is no reason to be. That's why I think it's much simpler to play any shaman comp than it is to play nearly ANY other comp in the game.
Being able to effectively use your healer CC offensively while maintaining proper positioning is a HUGE part of your teams success. Many healers and teams struggle with this.
You will not be competitive at a high level in arena without effective fears from your priest.
You will not be competitive at a high level in arena without effective clones from your druid.
You will not be competitive at a high level in arena without effective Hojs/fears/repents from your paladin.
You will not be competitive at a high level in arena without effective incaps/stuns/roots from your monk.
You WILL be competitive at a high level in arena without effective.... 45second CD hexes...... from your shaman.
Shamans do NOT CC, they PREVENT CC. They slow down the tempo of every arena they enter. That's also another reason you won't ever see a high rated shaman comp without some kind of cast reduction spell (Curse of enfeeblement / Goat / Mind numbing) on their team. They need to slow games down and simplify them as much as possible in order to win. That's also why they are so weak against melee cleaves, or just any melee in general. (there is no ability you can press to reverse bloodlust a melee class).
Not to mention they walk in arena with a PASSIVE damage and healing buff to everyone on their team. Grace of Air (3000 mastery)
I'm not sitting here saying it is unstoppable. I am saying that the amount of effort and coordination required to win games, in comparison to every other comp in the game, is much less as Shaman Goat, and I think every goat and shaman would agree that without each other, they wouldn't have nearly as much success in arenas.
Posted GrieverZ on 19 January 2014 - 08:27 AM
There's other factors though.
I've been playing around the duelist bracket for many seasons and i consistently face the same problems, a lot of people around 2k-2300 tends to develop massive egos wich means they just won't queue with anyone they don't consider "worthy" wich greatly limits their practice sessions, they also tend to sit their rating forever to either get rewards as they're scared to tank or simply out of pride to not drop below what they consider "good" rating (usually milestones such as 2k and 2200), on top of that, most of those players actually stop improving there because they start to think they're too good to lose, so comes into play the endless amount of excuses on how the game is shit, how whatever comp beat them is skilless, how XYZ class is OP etc and they start raging and disbanding teams/dropping partners if they ever lose to teams they don't consider "worthy" based on above criterias, then they start the process all over again with other people. All of this completly shuts down any possibilities for self analysis required to improve your play.