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Posted Korzul on 27 January 2015 - 02:34 AM
Posted Azyos on 07 January 2015 - 03:16 PM
Posted Knaittiz on 02 January 2015 - 10:41 PM
Nothing personal - dont hate the player, hate the game. fuck holinka
älkää suuttuko kaverit
Posted ~Invictus on 27 October 2014 - 06:26 PM
- I'm a no namer (so Clamnesia could feel free to skip the whole reply);
- Although I'm a scrub (won't deny my highest in arena has been 1700 maybe, can't check it as of now) I tend to be as fair as possible;
- I played Arms since the end of s4 and skipped Cata almost completely;
- I kind of hate Prot PvP.
Not in the same place. And not because we aren't viable anymore, but due to the fact that it's not the same class, at all.
Or kind of, as you prefer.
Arms Warriors in their previous incarnation have been moved to Fury.
Fury plays almost as MoP Arms. Ironically, Arms plays akin to the previous version of Fury.
So how about Arms? I reckon that's the most "felt" spec out of all three we have at our disposal.
Q: How is Arms now? What is Arms now?
A: Awkwardly cleavy.
When patch launched I kept playing Arms as I did, as most of us did. And of course complained.
Arms has blatant issues that cannot be denied, because as far as a game goes its current incarnation is not fun per se.
However, adaptation was in order. And in this Pinka and Clamnesia have proved - to me - way precious than any guide.
I fiddled with the other two specs, most in dismay due to both the uneasiness to play something that I didn't really like (I rolled Warrior to play Arms and still enjoy Arms only) and the heavy pruning we faced.
So after a week or so of playing Fury (both TG and SMF) and Prot, I returned to Arms because I don't know best.
I started playing a game of pooling Rage and dumping it into the Colossus Window when I know I (or my team) can lead the target under 20%. Which, as I stated, was the playstyle of MoP Fury.
Q: Is this an interesting playstyle?
A: Yes, it is, but it has issues bound to the spec.
First of all, Arms is totally reliant on Rage.
Which, mind you, is a good thing per se since our resource is technically unlimited.
But problems start to arise when a snare or a root hardcounter all the pressure you can put through: if you get devoid of Rage and get back to your target, you may find yourself unable to do anything.
Charge + Bull Rush gives 30 Rage and something, which is a Mortal Strike + Hamstring. + maybe a Rend.
From there, you're dependant on a 3s white swing.
Our new defensive mechanic, which is horribly undertuned, burns copious amounts of Rage.
Given that Shield Barrier is hardly pressed regardless, it's clear that Arms is made to spend Rage but has no "on demand" generators.
Q: But aren't other specs dependant on Rage aswell?
A: Not entirely.
Fury has its main ability, Bloodthirst, that's only restricted by a cooldown and unlocks the other two, plus it offers survivability, has +30% increased crit strike chance, and its crits Enrage the Warrior, which is the main mechanic of the spec.
If a Fury Warrior is peeled off an engage, he can jump back into the fray and use Rage to get uptime since damage isn't tied to it.
Prot has no need for Rage other than Shield Barrier and Hamstring.
And by guts alone it has more mobility and uptime than both Fury and Arms.
I won't even name the fact that this spec is the only one that kept Heroic Strike, THE Rage dump.
Moreso, Arms has been moved away from any Enrage mechanic (aside from Berserker Rage), which was a trademark of the class.
This leads me to my next point: Arms has probably been hit the hardest by questionable pruning and design decisions.
Q: But haven't all classes and specs been hit by pruning?
A: Yes (not really tbh, but that's just me).
Still, although MoP Arms was undeniably bloated by buttons, we saw the removal of trademark moves and the comeback of stuff we didn't need or like, and that are not tied in any way to the theme of the spec.
What do I mean with this:
Fury has the whole Enrage theme: if you crit you are enraged, if you are enraged not only you hit harder, but you can move faster (with a glyph, that's pretty much mandatory when you PvP as Fury) and have access to some abilities.
All of this is tied to Bloodthirst, Bloodthirst allows the use of Wild Strike and Raging Blow.
Protection has the "Shield" theme: you hit stuff with your shield, and the shield is used for both offense and defense.
If you block stuff with your shield or manage to avoid an attack, you gain access to other attacks. Plus, you can increase your melee avoidance and hit harder with the very same shield you use to protect yourself.
All of this is tied to a neat weave of thematical moves, and has a way to reliably enrage itself so that the glyph of Enraged Speed can be used aswell.
Arms has damage.
If Arms was the master of the situational combat, now it's not.
Overpower, probably the most iconic of our moves (although its uniqueness has been made nil by MoP spamminess), has been removed in favor of Rend, that does literally nothing in terms of theme.
It's a dot subject to avoidance that needs to be clipped in order to be effective. To those that are not familiar with the term, clipping is the n.1 thing you had to avoid in the past if you were a dot class in order to not gimp your damage output.
It's a button that we got back randomly, it feels like it has no place in the current Arms' theme.
What's the current theme?
As I stated,
You have to put damage into a window and pray to god you window does not get screwed by avoidance.
As I said, that was what Fury PvErs loved. But still Fury had an off the global ability that helped dumping the Rage, something we don't have anymore.
Since I touched the "avoidance" topic, I'll take the chance and tackle the mobility issue aswell.
Arms' mobility is bad. Not bad in the sense that it sucks, it's arguably the best in combat mobility.
But as it was in Cata, uptime is severely lacking.
Q: HURR DURR WERRIER MEBELETEH OP U STOOPID?
This is the most common blueprinted answer I get when discussing the issue.
Still it's true: once we get to a target, the target walks away or prevents the closing altogether since Charge is now a root and not a stun, and we can be controlled while moving.
Is this an issue? It depends on the target you charge and the situation.
However being able to get a reliable ministun to get some damage going was important back when all we did was tied to whether the target would avoid the damage or not, and it is now that Freedoms and Burst of Speed-esque abilities are getting more and more common.
To boot, Arms has no way to properly use Enraged Speed (6s every 30s is not a good investment for a glyph), so an Arms Warrior kinda has to waddle.
Q: Can you stop whining and tell us what did you do to adapt?
A: Of course.
I defined the spec as "awkwardly cleavy", and I feel it is.
I got some suggestions from this forum, tried various setups and came to a conclusion.
Disclaimer 2: EVERYTHING THAT FOLLOWS STEMS FROM PERSONAL OPINIONS.
Arms has locked selections for glyphs.
Wind and Thunder* is mandatory. Losing Piercing Howl hits our mobility and the deadzone kite is back, so we need range on our now-slowing Thunder Clap.
For personal preferences, I feel Bull Rush is a must have, and Unending Rage is needed to manage your damage window.
In this, not having to use Enraged Speed is kind of a blessing, I wouldn't know where to put it.
Arms has locked selections for talents.
Taste for Blood is really the only thing you can take in the 45lv tier.
Slam doesn't compare to Whirlwind at all, and Sudden Death, while fun to have, is way too unreliable to have it: you can't gamble a 3+ sec swing timer for a 10% chance to proc an Execute.
Taste for Blood gives you Rage, and you need Rage.
In arena, you may want to consider Shockwave, and even then maybe only in 3s or against some 2s beast/ petspam cleaves.
In any other situation, Storm Bolt takes the candle. It solves the avoidance problem altogether and ensures you can use your damage window.
Nothing frustrates me more than having Colossus dodged or parried.
This little thingy * is here to remember me I mentioned Wind and Thunder, and thus we lead to my final point before the epilogue: Whirlwind.
An aoe filler is really bad, since its usage is situational to what ccs we have around and thus acts as a limiter to what comps we can play.
On the upper side, its damage is plain stupid.
Whirlwind + Wind and Thunder turns Arms into an insane cleave machine.
Coupled with Sweeping Strikes, I found myself doing more AoE damage that I can pull off with my Unholy Death Knight.
Q: So all in all is Arms still playable?
A: Yes, if you can cope with a lack of an enjoyable theme and general clunkiness.
As I said, the removal of 1s cd/gcd Overpower and Heroic Strike did nothing but hurt the fact that our actual theme of controlled dump is tied to avoidance and long-ass global cooldowns.
The spec is tied together by choices you have to make via mandatory options to make it work, whilst the othert two specs can make real choices to affect their gameplay.
I don't feel I have any choice as Arms, it's either that or other unneeded clunkiness or flat out inability to play the spec, and I know it's my limit.
I understand the point of Warrior detractors, but to be honest we didn't have any banners prior to september 2012, and no Rallying Cry before Cataclysm hit. We can manage.
We are not simply crying because we have no utility left, we cry because the only redeeming feature of a spec cannot be ridiculous numbers.
I refuse to be told to be silent, only to see my tools pruned to be able to unleash damage and damage alone, and seeing Hunters keeping
Utility leads to creative play, and creative play ultimately leads to skill. Since I still enjoy the game to an extent, I refuse to have my swan song à la Buddhist and surrender to see the game taken away from me.
We had utility, utility that has been mostly kept by Protection Warriors.
And as Gforce stated, kids all whined until Blizzard forced us all to turn into Gladstance.
Now we will gladly be retardedly overpowered in a spec we don't enjoy.
There's much to be said about defenses and how I feel we stack against other classes, but this textwall is as aggressive as it gets, and I don't feel like I want to bother you all.
Posted Kettu on 05 October 2014 - 04:53 PM
Posted Bestpriestjk on 05 October 2014 - 03:46 PM
Posted Senorsquid on 18 September 2014 - 05:09 AM
En primer lugar, quiero pedir disculpas sobre todo a Chanimala, también conocido como Adam. Adam ha sido mi mayor inspiración en WoW, lo amo como jugador, lo amo como persona. Siento que lo dejé más abajo; le envió un mensaje preguntándome por qué permití que lo que le pasó a suceder, y no había nada que pudiera decirle. Él es uno de los más cool, más bonito, tipos más graciosos que he conocido; IRL y en línea. Pido disculpas a usted Adam, espero que esto no cambia mucho.
En segundo lugar, me gustaría pedir disculpas a Jahmilli (Smoochador). Jahmilli fue acusado de jugar al mago en nuestro godcomp, y tomó tanta falta de respeto de la gente en su corriente. Las personas lo acusaron de forma automática por hacer algo que él tomó absolutamente cero pieza. ¿Qué sucedió causó una reacción y terminó con Jahmilli perder fans y el respeto de algunos de la comunidad de WoW. Junto con Jahmilli, quiero pedir disculpas a Tease. Tease sabía Jahmilli no tuvo parte en ella, y tuvo que ver Jahmilli siendo acusado de hacer algo que no hizo. Ella era, me imagino, directamente afectados por todo el torneo ESL así debido a las acciones ocurrieron con mi equipo. Pido disculpas a usted.
Siguiente Quiero pedir disculpas a todos los jugadores del torneo que se vieron afectados por lo sucedido con el equipo Jake'n'Bake. Pikaboo, (uno de los chicos más cool WoW, realmente divertido, prodigio rogue, siempre he querido impresionar / jugar, también soy discreta su mayor fan) Snutz, Venruki, CDEW, (todos los jugadores que me siempre han visto / admirado / se necesitan para impresionar / ser del agrado de cuando empecé a jugar) Dillypoo, (un amigo muy cercano mío que es un todo un gran ser humano. han disfrutado jugando / pasar mucho tiempo con él) Tosan (en realidad nunca llegó a conocerlo, siempre ha sido un fan de sus viejas películas de PVP, sentir que estamos en una mala nota en la actualidad) Glink (Glink es uno de los tipos más divertidos para jugar; siempre una actitud positiva, le encanta perder el tiempo, le ha conocido por un tiempo y hemos sido conocidos por ser grandes amigos, esperamos que podamos seguir siendo) el godcomp jugamos para el último lugar en los regionales (no conocía a ninguno de ellos, pero merecíamos una feria oportunidad de los regionales, que no consiguieron.) equipo de Novoz equipo / de Vanguard (ambos equipos con jugadores muy cualificados / conocidos y respetados, cuando se enteraron de lo que estaba pasando con nuestro equipo y nosotros lo que es para los regionales, fue muy injusto para ellos )
Lo siguiente es toda contracción / wow comunidad / mis fans / amigos que no fueron mencionados. Lo siento por haberte decepcionado, esto nunca vuelva a suceder. Sólo espero que cualquiera que no me conoce no juzgará mi personaje basa fuera de éste evento, espero que todo el mundo puede mirar más allá de esto y acepte mis disculpas.
Y la última vez que pedir disculpas a Blizzardo / ESL para decir que este es, de lejos, el torneo más desorganizado nunca. Muy poco profesional, mala cimentación, poco o nada de los administradores para ayudar con preguntas sin respuesta, reglas / toda manera el torneo fue ran era absurdo.
Lo sentimos a todos, espero que esto aclare todo y que la gente puede mirar más allá de lo que pasó, gracias por todo el que lea esto.
Posted ROKMODE on 23 August 2014 - 06:07 PM
Aside from all that, TBC/wotlk systems are just a lot more fun to play. It all feels a lot more simple, and there's way less stupid stuff always going on. (feels less like a clusterfuck that is) When you set something up right, you know when your opponents will die. There aren't 231321421550 different survival cooldowns and self heals and whatnot.
Posted Esiwdeer on 19 July 2014 - 03:39 PM
Posted Esiwdeer on 29 June 2014 - 08:36 PM
Posted ciel0224 on 07 October 2013 - 07:42 AM
Posted Caeser on 24 September 2013 - 06:22 PM
This write-up is not to analyze arena viability, because in the past warrior arena viability has been determined by whether or not warriors are putting out insane damage/one-shotting people. Having damage contribute the most to warrior arena viability is not healthy for warriors long-term, and also indicates a poor ability pool that is not worth taking to arenas if it doesn't bring monster damage as well. Sadly, warriors have notoriously had a feast or famine approach to arena viability, and it was always whether or not we did alot of damage. What is needed is a step back to take a broad look at the class as a whole, because the warrior kit is not in a healthy state, and the outlook looks grim.
The warriors of today are the resulting mess of many "band-aid" patches to "get warriors by" until the next patch or end of the expansion. Simple number buffs to Slam, Mortal Strike, or Deep Wounds, have been blizzard's efforts to help warriors mid-expansion, particularly in cata and mop. These number fixes only serve to get warriors viable again in PvP or Pve temporarily, and the fixes often take warriors into an uncomfortable situation of being too strong but having no other place to go as a class. The slow process of removing old pieces of the warrior kit, and replacing them with damage buffs, has gotten us the warrior of today.
The problematic relationship between warrior skill floor and ceiling:
The first thing I'll talk about is warrior skill floor and ceiling. This topic has been address at length in the past by people much higher rated than me, so I will only mention what I feel is new or relevant.
Right now, warriors are a class that is easily accessible to lesser experienced or new players. This is ok, just because a class is easy to pick up doesn't mean it isn't hard to master. So, having a low skill floor (the minimum effort required to enjoy success with the class) isn't necessarily bad. However, warriors have lost pieces of their kit over time, and as a result have now have a lower skill ceiling. The skill ceiling is the maximum potential for a classes performance, it gives a player room to distinguish himself from worse players. Good players now have less tools to use overall, and our current tools are much more simplified. Watching Johnny 2200 play his warrior is nearly the same as watching a 2800 warrior play.
Warriors need less abilities that have only one function, and more abilities that can be used multiple ways or interact with other abilities to produce a different result. There are not many decisions to be made as a warrior because the playstyle has been simplified significantly. Multi-tasking is nearly non-existant, and the different decisions to be made simultaneously aren't exactly difficult. I'm not saying that warriors need to be DK, Mage or Lock tier of multi-tasking, but bringing more depth would be nice. Bring in more ways for good players to distinguish themselves from lesser players.
Swifty one-shotting and its constant resurfacing for warriors:
The next topic I wanted to talk about is tied in with the warrior skill floor/ceiling discussion, and that is swifty one-shot scenarios and their recurring place in warrior playstyle. Before cata, warriors were not "one-shot" robots that turned on all cooldowns and killed the closest poor bastard they could find. The strongest case you could make would be Lich King bladestorm situations, but even that could be disarmed and the damage was dealt over 6 seconds anyway.
There are three abilities that allow for these retarded swifty burst situations to constantly return in a new patch or expac: Colossus Smash, Recklessness, and Skull Banner. As long as these abilities exist together with their current effects, warriors will be unable to get a new offensive cooldown or more utility without completely neutering one of the big three. This season, warrior damage is treading the razor's edge of balance and warriors aren't one-shotting people. However, the potential for one-shot situations will always return due to the nature of the big three.
The big three are troublesome because they're not simply static damage like a mortal strike or lava lash, they're multipliers. A damage multiplier like death wish or avatar is ok, because armor still exists as a foil to the physical damage. So, just because you have a flat +30% damage doesn't mean you're killing everything in sight, armor still exists to reduce your now higher damage by a percentage: the armor scales with the modifier. Now we add in colossus smash, which removes half of the targets armor. The damage is still manageable, and high burst can be healthy. However, add Reck and Banner into the mix and we have a problem. When an attack crits, it deals double damage. Crits add more burst, but Skull Banner increases that burst. So now, your burst is even more bursty, creating a nasty situation where abilities can deal 30% of a players health in one blow (this isnt even a sole warrior problem, other classes have it too).
These abilities are not necessarily broken when used alone, or even when using two at once. But each multiplies damage, and when you multiply a source of damage three times before it hits the health pool of the enemy you're in for trouble. In my humble opinion, Skull Banner is the problem ability. If you see a warrior CS someone and pop reck+avatar, it isn't necessarily the end of the world. because he can be CC'd or disarmed. However, banner affects the entire party, and destroying the banner in the heat of battle can be hard while Timmy Frostmage and Johnny Armswar are one-shotting your teammate with crits. Bottom line? Lessen the insane crit burst of warriors and increase consistent damage. There is a reason that warriors have consistently been middle of the pack or at the bottom of DPS in Pve the entire expansion and parts of Cata. Too much of our damage is focused in Colossus Smash burst windows, and the problem is made worse when adding avatar/reck/banner.
The simplistic state of the warrior kit:
My last topic is going to be one that is a bit more abstract: the health of the warrior kit. This problem goes hand-in-hand with the second topic, because the absurd burst damage is the result of having to be reimbursed for losing other portions of our kit. Since the kit is now simplified and focused mostly on damage, you arrive to the problem of my first topic. Its a vicious cycle, and as you can see these three problems are tied together closely.
Warrior kit. What does it mean? If you've read ghostcrawler's dev blogs or his forum posts, or even Xypherous's posts in the league forums, its the entire package of a class. Different abilities come together to form a coherent playstyle, and gives the class a solid identity. Warriors have had strong and unique portions of their playstyle changed or discarded entirely over time. When you take away more things a warrior can do, you give him less decisions to make. When there are less decisions to make, the playstyle devolves into mongoloid beast-cleave style training. You arrive to the warrior we have now, the Slam-spamming piece of shit thats been pushed on us since cata.
Shield play, at one time, was a defining aspect of warriors. No other classes weaved in the use of a shield so effectively or frequently in the midst of a fight. Combined with stance dancing, shield play made the arms warrior extremely unique and added a distinct flavor to the spec. In dire straits, you could defensive stance with shield block to mitigate incoming physical damage, but also deal good damage at the same time. However, these things weren't done with just pressing shield wall like today, the player had to think quickly and utilize multiple abilities. Shield play encouraged interesting decision making, on-the-fly judgments, and added depth to arms. A good warrior knew how to maximize both offensive and defensive potential at any time using a combination of abilities. Shield play was one of the ways a good player could show he was better than a lesser player.
This is a direct 180 in comparison to now. Warriors don't even keep a shield in their bags for pvp, they have no reason to. Shield play has been completely erased, and I feel arms warriors are worse off for it. Warriors now have simple derp abilities that create something I call "death knight syndrome." Abilities like 5.4 Shield Wall/Reflect, Die by the Sword, Divine Protection, Shamanistic Rage, etc. These kinds of abilities are dull, and they all support stupid mongoloid playstyles that let you ignore hard pressure being applied to you while you continue to burst someone. This is a problem across most classes, not just warriors.
What the fuck is death knight syndrome? Its when a class(in the case of mop, multiple classes) have many abilities that require little input from the player and dont allow much/any counterplay from the enemy. Why did I call it death knight syndrome? Death Knight's were the first class to utilize many of the kind of "derp" spells I mentioned earlier. Icebound Fortitude and Anti-Magic Shell are prime examples. They allow you to keep on training your target while being unpeelable. IBF keeps damage low on you and you cant be stunned. You completely ignore all crowd control while AMS is up. These kinds of abilities, with low user input and little room for counterplay, are allowing players to play like mongoloids and enjoy great success.
Ok, im going to clear up something or else you guys will think im just dumping on death knights. Death Knights, in the current form, utilize IBF and AMS just fine because they have many other decisions to make. The derp spells of death knights don't make their class unhealthy because the death knight has many other things to manage. Pet placement, focus gnaw, focus strang, focus grip, focus chains, multiple DPS cooldowns, proper rune management, etc. The Death Knight playstyle utilizes the derp cooldowns in a healthy way because death knights have so much else going on and many decisions to make, so its ok if one facet of their playstyle is simpler. In addition, unholy's damage is predominantly consistent over-time damage, they're not capable of the same burst as Arms or Ret.
So why the fuck did I just dedicate 2 paragraphs to DKs on a warrior forum? To show that having simple derp abilities isn't always bad, but adding derp abilities to a class that already has very few decisions to make is bad and unhealthy(in this case, to the warrior). As I mentioned before, warriors dont have much going on in the midst of a fight due to having less abilities to utilize. Warriors have an extremely simply dps rotation with only one random proc, and rage is very easy to manage. In addition, warrior utility and peels are simple in nature and aren't particularly complex. The class that already suffered from issues of being too simple and shallow is now even more simple and shallow.
Conclusion and hope (or dread) for the future:
So, why did I write this fucking novel? 5.4 has made be worried for where warriors are going. As I mentioned at the start of this, I have faith in blizzard to steer warriors back in a good direction. I hope in my heart of hearts that they increase the depth of the warrior's playstyle and make them interesting again.These things are not impossible to accomplish. However, the one thing that made me lose faith was seeing the shield requirement removed from SW and SR.
You're going to say "the change was good, shields were a pain in the ass and it was for quality of life." and you would be right. But, the removal of the shield requirement is an indication that blizzard has given up on the idea of ever bringing back shield play. Removing the shield requirement was the last remaining sliver of shield-use for arms. Yes, having SW and SR require a shield for the modern warrior is stupid, because the rest of the shield play abilities have been removed. Having one part remain from shield play isn't interesting and it was holding the class back. Now with no remnants of using a shield at all, I fear blizzard is going to fully give up on the idea of increasing warrior depth and simplifying the class even further. As we are now, Shield Wall is now just another fire-and-forget mongoloid spell, and warriors are more uninteresting for it.
But this write-up isn't just about bitching. If this entire thing came off as whiney, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way. The entire point of this was to bring attention to warrior problems that weren't just "wahhh my damage" or "wahhhh my viability." I wanted to bring attention back to old facets of warrior playstyle that were fun as well as interesting. I don't want blizzard to keep dumbing down warriors. We weren't always just slam-spamming pieces of shit, at one time we were unique, our playstyle was diverse, and good warriors were different from bad.
I bring all this up in hopes for the new expansion. Please, help bring blizzard's eyes to these issues. I'm so sick of hearing about people talking about being viable or broken because of too much damage. Damage is easily adjusted, people. They're just numbers. What isn't easily changed are playstyles and kits. You're not going to get a warlock-tier class revamp in the middle of an expansion. If we do not voice our concerns now then we will have another expansion of dull, boring horse shit, and we will have nobody to blame but ourselves. Blizzard has shown they will listen, they heard our feedback for 5.4. This is entirely possible.
Tl:dr: Enough bitching about numbers or "muh viability", the biggest issue is the unhealthy state of the warrior kit and playstyle. This is what we need to be asking of blizzard, not number changes.
also inb4 no skulls, criticizing my rating, or "tldr"
Posted Capstone on 24 September 2013 - 02:25 AM