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Posted Caeser on 24 September 2013 - 06:22 PM
This write-up is not to analyze arena viability, because in the past warrior arena viability has been determined by whether or not warriors are putting out insane damage/one-shotting people. Having damage contribute the most to warrior arena viability is not healthy for warriors long-term, and also indicates a poor ability pool that is not worth taking to arenas if it doesn't bring monster damage as well. Sadly, warriors have notoriously had a feast or famine approach to arena viability, and it was always whether or not we did alot of damage. What is needed is a step back to take a broad look at the class as a whole, because the warrior kit is not in a healthy state, and the outlook looks grim.
The warriors of today are the resulting mess of many "band-aid" patches to "get warriors by" until the next patch or end of the expansion. Simple number buffs to Slam, Mortal Strike, or Deep Wounds, have been blizzard's efforts to help warriors mid-expansion, particularly in cata and mop. These number fixes only serve to get warriors viable again in PvP or Pve temporarily, and the fixes often take warriors into an uncomfortable situation of being too strong but having no other place to go as a class. The slow process of removing old pieces of the warrior kit, and replacing them with damage buffs, has gotten us the warrior of today.
The problematic relationship between warrior skill floor and ceiling:
The first thing I'll talk about is warrior skill floor and ceiling. This topic has been address at length in the past by people much higher rated than me, so I will only mention what I feel is new or relevant.
Right now, warriors are a class that is easily accessible to lesser experienced or new players. This is ok, just because a class is easy to pick up doesn't mean it isn't hard to master. So, having a low skill floor (the minimum effort required to enjoy success with the class) isn't necessarily bad. However, warriors have lost pieces of their kit over time, and as a result have now have a lower skill ceiling. The skill ceiling is the maximum potential for a classes performance, it gives a player room to distinguish himself from worse players. Good players now have less tools to use overall, and our current tools are much more simplified. Watching Johnny 2200 play his warrior is nearly the same as watching a 2800 warrior play.
Warriors need less abilities that have only one function, and more abilities that can be used multiple ways or interact with other abilities to produce a different result. There are not many decisions to be made as a warrior because the playstyle has been simplified significantly. Multi-tasking is nearly non-existant, and the different decisions to be made simultaneously aren't exactly difficult. I'm not saying that warriors need to be DK, Mage or Lock tier of multi-tasking, but bringing more depth would be nice. Bring in more ways for good players to distinguish themselves from lesser players.
Swifty one-shotting and its constant resurfacing for warriors:
The next topic I wanted to talk about is tied in with the warrior skill floor/ceiling discussion, and that is swifty one-shot scenarios and their recurring place in warrior playstyle. Before cata, warriors were not "one-shot" robots that turned on all cooldowns and killed the closest poor bastard they could find. The strongest case you could make would be Lich King bladestorm situations, but even that could be disarmed and the damage was dealt over 6 seconds anyway.
There are three abilities that allow for these retarded swifty burst situations to constantly return in a new patch or expac: Colossus Smash, Recklessness, and Skull Banner. As long as these abilities exist together with their current effects, warriors will be unable to get a new offensive cooldown or more utility without completely neutering one of the big three. This season, warrior damage is treading the razor's edge of balance and warriors aren't one-shotting people. However, the potential for one-shot situations will always return due to the nature of the big three.
The big three are troublesome because they're not simply static damage like a mortal strike or lava lash, they're multipliers. A damage multiplier like death wish or avatar is ok, because armor still exists as a foil to the physical damage. So, just because you have a flat +30% damage doesn't mean you're killing everything in sight, armor still exists to reduce your now higher damage by a percentage: the armor scales with the modifier. Now we add in colossus smash, which removes half of the targets armor. The damage is still manageable, and high burst can be healthy. However, add Reck and Banner into the mix and we have a problem. When an attack crits, it deals double damage. Crits add more burst, but Skull Banner increases that burst. So now, your burst is even more bursty, creating a nasty situation where abilities can deal 30% of a players health in one blow (this isnt even a sole warrior problem, other classes have it too).
These abilities are not necessarily broken when used alone, or even when using two at once. But each multiplies damage, and when you multiply a source of damage three times before it hits the health pool of the enemy you're in for trouble. In my humble opinion, Skull Banner is the problem ability. If you see a warrior CS someone and pop reck+avatar, it isn't necessarily the end of the world. because he can be CC'd or disarmed. However, banner affects the entire party, and destroying the banner in the heat of battle can be hard while Timmy Frostmage and Johnny Armswar are one-shotting your teammate with crits. Bottom line? Lessen the insane crit burst of warriors and increase consistent damage. There is a reason that warriors have consistently been middle of the pack or at the bottom of DPS in Pve the entire expansion and parts of Cata. Too much of our damage is focused in Colossus Smash burst windows, and the problem is made worse when adding avatar/reck/banner.
The simplistic state of the warrior kit:
My last topic is going to be one that is a bit more abstract: the health of the warrior kit. This problem goes hand-in-hand with the second topic, because the absurd burst damage is the result of having to be reimbursed for losing other portions of our kit. Since the kit is now simplified and focused mostly on damage, you arrive to the problem of my first topic. Its a vicious cycle, and as you can see these three problems are tied together closely.
Warrior kit. What does it mean? If you've read ghostcrawler's dev blogs or his forum posts, or even Xypherous's posts in the league forums, its the entire package of a class. Different abilities come together to form a coherent playstyle, and gives the class a solid identity. Warriors have had strong and unique portions of their playstyle changed or discarded entirely over time. When you take away more things a warrior can do, you give him less decisions to make. When there are less decisions to make, the playstyle devolves into mongoloid beast-cleave style training. You arrive to the warrior we have now, the Slam-spamming piece of shit thats been pushed on us since cata.
Shield play, at one time, was a defining aspect of warriors. No other classes weaved in the use of a shield so effectively or frequently in the midst of a fight. Combined with stance dancing, shield play made the arms warrior extremely unique and added a distinct flavor to the spec. In dire straits, you could defensive stance with shield block to mitigate incoming physical damage, but also deal good damage at the same time. However, these things weren't done with just pressing shield wall like today, the player had to think quickly and utilize multiple abilities. Shield play encouraged interesting decision making, on-the-fly judgments, and added depth to arms. A good warrior knew how to maximize both offensive and defensive potential at any time using a combination of abilities. Shield play was one of the ways a good player could show he was better than a lesser player.
This is a direct 180 in comparison to now. Warriors don't even keep a shield in their bags for pvp, they have no reason to. Shield play has been completely erased, and I feel arms warriors are worse off for it. Warriors now have simple derp abilities that create something I call "death knight syndrome." Abilities like 5.4 Shield Wall/Reflect, Die by the Sword, Divine Protection, Shamanistic Rage, etc. These kinds of abilities are dull, and they all support stupid mongoloid playstyles that let you ignore hard pressure being applied to you while you continue to burst someone. This is a problem across most classes, not just warriors.
What the fuck is death knight syndrome? Its when a class(in the case of mop, multiple classes) have many abilities that require little input from the player and dont allow much/any counterplay from the enemy. Why did I call it death knight syndrome? Death Knight's were the first class to utilize many of the kind of "derp" spells I mentioned earlier. Icebound Fortitude and Anti-Magic Shell are prime examples. They allow you to keep on training your target while being unpeelable. IBF keeps damage low on you and you cant be stunned. You completely ignore all crowd control while AMS is up. These kinds of abilities, with low user input and little room for counterplay, are allowing players to play like mongoloids and enjoy great success.
Ok, im going to clear up something or else you guys will think im just dumping on death knights. Death Knights, in the current form, utilize IBF and AMS just fine because they have many other decisions to make. The derp spells of death knights don't make their class unhealthy because the death knight has many other things to manage. Pet placement, focus gnaw, focus strang, focus grip, focus chains, multiple DPS cooldowns, proper rune management, etc. The Death Knight playstyle utilizes the derp cooldowns in a healthy way because death knights have so much else going on and many decisions to make, so its ok if one facet of their playstyle is simpler. In addition, unholy's damage is predominantly consistent over-time damage, they're not capable of the same burst as Arms or Ret.
So why the fuck did I just dedicate 2 paragraphs to DKs on a warrior forum? To show that having simple derp abilities isn't always bad, but adding derp abilities to a class that already has very few decisions to make is bad and unhealthy(in this case, to the warrior). As I mentioned before, warriors dont have much going on in the midst of a fight due to having less abilities to utilize. Warriors have an extremely simply dps rotation with only one random proc, and rage is very easy to manage. In addition, warrior utility and peels are simple in nature and aren't particularly complex. The class that already suffered from issues of being too simple and shallow is now even more simple and shallow.
Conclusion and hope (or dread) for the future:
So, why did I write this fucking novel? 5.4 has made be worried for where warriors are going. As I mentioned at the start of this, I have faith in blizzard to steer warriors back in a good direction. I hope in my heart of hearts that they increase the depth of the warrior's playstyle and make them interesting again.These things are not impossible to accomplish. However, the one thing that made me lose faith was seeing the shield requirement removed from SW and SR.
You're going to say "the change was good, shields were a pain in the ass and it was for quality of life." and you would be right. But, the removal of the shield requirement is an indication that blizzard has given up on the idea of ever bringing back shield play. Removing the shield requirement was the last remaining sliver of shield-use for arms. Yes, having SW and SR require a shield for the modern warrior is stupid, because the rest of the shield play abilities have been removed. Having one part remain from shield play isn't interesting and it was holding the class back. Now with no remnants of using a shield at all, I fear blizzard is going to fully give up on the idea of increasing warrior depth and simplifying the class even further. As we are now, Shield Wall is now just another fire-and-forget mongoloid spell, and warriors are more uninteresting for it.
But this write-up isn't just about bitching. If this entire thing came off as whiney, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way. The entire point of this was to bring attention to warrior problems that weren't just "wahhh my damage" or "wahhhh my viability." I wanted to bring attention back to old facets of warrior playstyle that were fun as well as interesting. I don't want blizzard to keep dumbing down warriors. We weren't always just slam-spamming pieces of shit, at one time we were unique, our playstyle was diverse, and good warriors were different from bad.
I bring all this up in hopes for the new expansion. Please, help bring blizzard's eyes to these issues. I'm so sick of hearing about people talking about being viable or broken because of too much damage. Damage is easily adjusted, people. They're just numbers. What isn't easily changed are playstyles and kits. You're not going to get a warlock-tier class revamp in the middle of an expansion. If we do not voice our concerns now then we will have another expansion of dull, boring horse shit, and we will have nobody to blame but ourselves. Blizzard has shown they will listen, they heard our feedback for 5.4. This is entirely possible.
Tl:dr: Enough bitching about numbers or "muh viability", the biggest issue is the unhealthy state of the warrior kit and playstyle. This is what we need to be asking of blizzard, not number changes.
also inb4 no skulls, criticizing my rating, or "tldr"
Posted Capstone on 24 September 2013 - 02:25 AM
Posted Veev on 13 September 2013 - 03:25 PM
I played some wargames yesterday and was downright amazed at how different (and better) the game felt. Damage and healing values feel much closer to TBC values than ever before. You typically see kills coming far in advance, you actually have time to react and use cooldowns appropriately, etc. Oh, and healer mana seems to be a thing again.
The game feels very different in general though and will take some getting used to for healers I suspect. Seems like people hover at low health for the vast majority of the game, which used to create a general state of panic, but will just be the norm now. Class balance seems like it'll be pretty decent this patch, but it's probably a little too early to tell. All of this, combined with the merged battlegroups, is making this patch look like one of the most promising (and drastically game changing) ones yet. Props to Blizzard, think they finally did something right this patch!
Posted Woundman on 30 June 2013 - 03:06 AM
Posted Braindance on 11 April 2013 - 05:29 AM
The golden age
It pains me to say that, but no one can refuse that WotLK was by far the best era for warriors. 10 second spell reflect, charge and intercept, amazing damage, bladestorm, strong sword and board play. In retrospect it was a paradise - you had every tool you needed in your disposal. There were lots and lots of things separating a good from a bad warrior, mainly because of our skill set variety.
The current age
Through cata and MoP, we have been stripped of everything:
- Our defensive play relies on a passive skill and a ridiculous stance, without much action required from our part
- Niche abilities have been removed from our arsenal - intercept, shield block, baseline bladestorm
- The new rage system, while ideal for pve, is a total failure in pvp
- Many of our abilities are frozen in time since WotLK or even BC
Long story short, even though we are still viable, the playstyle plainly Sucks (with a capital s). All you do is damage. Getting trained? Go defensive stance and still do damage. Partner dying? Use a shockwave, throw a charge, do damage and hope for the best.
We are heavily dependent on long cooldowns.Sure, throwing heavy crits every 3 mins is fun, but it becomes quite boring after a while.
Shield wall is by far the most outdated, pathetic cooldown in the game. 40% damage reduction every 5 minutes - requires a shield. Let's take a look at the more fancy melee cooldowns of 2013:
- Icebound fortitude: 20% damage reduction, stun immunity for 12 seconds, 3 minute cooldown
- Combat readiness: 10% mitigation that stacks up to 5 every time you are hit by a melee or ranged attack, 20 second duration, 2 minute cooldown
- Cloak of shadows: no comment
- Anti-magic shell: no comment
- Shamanistic rage: 30% damage reduction, usable while stunned, 1 minute cooldown
- Survival instincts: 50% damage reduction, 3 minute cooldown
- Divine protection: 40% magic damage reduction, 1 minute cooldown
- Barkskin: 20% damage reduction, 1 minute cooldown
- They all have relatively small cooldowns
- They provides bonuses with minimal trade offs, allowing the user to stay offensive
Of course I am not implying that some of the classes with the above cds are better than warriors right now - they are not, but their weaknesses lie in various sectors and not in their defensive cds department.
A more involved playstyle
Changes have to happen, to make our playstyle more interesting, involved and, at the same time, less frustrating to our opponents:
- It is an affront to any intelligent player, having to play with second wind and a moronic, bloated, passive -% damage reduction. it is reminiscent of s5 dk playstyle in a weaker form. Make defensive stance a mere 10% damage reduction - bring back sword and board. 10 second reflect back - being "op" in rbgs was a joke in the first place
- The rage system has to change. Whilst the active component of rage gains is OK, the passive one blows. We used to be angry all the time with a glowing red bad underneath our healthbars when trained - now I can have a mage and an sp blowing their loads all over my screen and my character is calm like a lamb
- Introduce training protection - warriors ALWAYS had training protection either in the form of rage or enrage. I am not asking for a 25% enrage to come back, but rage MUST come back
- To keep pressure up outside of cds we have to use almost every global to do damage. We don't have the luxury of casting sheeps, or blinking all over the map to gain momentum. Therefore it is unfair to have hamstring fill 20% of our globals. Almost every melee has its slow integrated in a main attack - why is this not the case for us? Either that, or force all other melees to manually apply their slow every 6 seconds like we do. And 7 rage for a hamstring when your auto attack every ~3 seconds generates 12 rage IF in battle stance is a no-no
- Why are some of our most interesting abilities in the same talent tier? Why is safeguard in the same tier as mass spell reflect? Why is piercing howl not baseline?
- Berserk stance in pvp is almost entirely worthless. It is good for pve but it has 0 pvp usage - I've tried it countless times and it's so situational it's not worth wasting the 3 sec cds on stances
- Why do stances have 3 sec cooldown...?
Tell me what you think.
Posted Snackumz on 07 March 2013 - 11:28 PM
Posted Snackumz on 11 February 2013 - 02:50 AM
tldr everyone is gonna call me a faggot
Posted Braindeadly on 13 September 2012 - 03:17 AM
Cataclysmic title has gotta be the worst one yet, wouldn't be surprised if lewisyo even got it - there used to be a lot of drama in WoW which was fun but everyone has kinda turned to being politically correct and 'nice' to each other in order to make a few bucks and get some boosts/carrys.. but xandyn definitly crossed the line with the fake ID shizzle, no morals etc lol to get a title XD
you should try minecraft its fun killing pigs, more action than s11 arena anyways
Posted Thricton on 31 August 2012 - 08:17 PM
Posted inkorperated on 27 August 2012 - 09:02 PM
What's this? The team Blackrat played his character on was for feeding his own team? Who knew.
Feed team: http://us.battle.net...20dos%20victim/
Fed team: http://us.battle.net...ris%20Pacqueno/
Oh, and that shaman on the feed team is Shiftyx, so if that gives you enough of a reason to report this team, go for it.
Edit: Already being ddos'd while pushing 5s by poppychulo, n friends
Posted Venoma on 25 August 2012 - 05:45 PM