A class should never be balanced around 1 or 2 maps being broken for melee instead they should fix the issues with locks not balance them by giving them a cheese strat.
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FistagonMember Since 03 May 2011
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Posted Cakesz on 28 March 2013 - 09:03 AM
You're right, I didn't read that, so I apologise for that part.
The obvious abuses that is being ignored is selling boosts, which a lot of people on this site are responsible for and for which is the biggest reason why people are turned off from PvP, it's hilarious that it is so often ignored.
Most people not hardcore involved in Arena these days just look at Glad/R1 teams/titles and believe that they are probably win-traded or title sales, I used to regularly post on the official forums for about a year and that's by-and-large how the rest of the community sees it.
And they are right, at least in Europe, I don't know the extent of the problem in the US but it's obviously a problem there too, and it's by a lot of the most "famous" players as well, players like Zunniyaki, Flubbah, Minpojke etc for example are amongst the worst offenders, so why are they not banned from this site?
They are purposely destroying the competitive side of the game and yet the site which supposes'd itself as the "competitive site for Arena" doesn't say anything. A big problem with this site is how everyone is so gutless and nobody says anything to anyone about this. Grow some balls people.
Another example is the hilarious fact that the Yaspresents retards are allowed to even be here, the Arabs who have been buying the R1 title for 6 seasons now, yet you guys even advertised their little tournament, sure it's good to have tournaments, but them running a tournament doesn't make up for the rest of the shit they have caused.
Naturally nobody gives a shit about this aspect, they are all 15 year old kids making money and all the mods are friends of theirs, so this part of the site/community won't change at all.
But if it doesn't, let's drop this charade of you and the mod/admin team actually giving a damn about moderation.
It shouldn't be hard for anyone to figure out. If 80% of every Glad title is wintraded or sold, those very few legitimate players left in the game, will not stay playing the game, this is why the community is dying.
Just a thing, people always talk here about how much better the SC2 community is compared to the WoW community, in the SC2 community, those few people that "boost" to Grand Masters, are not allowed to stay as members of TL and stuff like that.
Posted Thaya on 14 February 2013 - 04:33 PM
Ever since WotLK ended, I've had the opinion that the problem of WoW PvP is not balance, but the systems. In fact, the things I'm going to talk about have always been in place, I just didn't notice them because I enjoyed random battlegrounds, skirmishes and 2v2 up until Cataclysm. I don't want to make this a nostalgia thread or a rant on bringing back skirmishes, but a few words have to be said about skirmish: reintroducing skirmish arenas, with the way the game has evolved since they were last active, would be a stupid decision. Back in WotLK individual skill was a much bigger factor than it is today - this is both due to developer decisions and players getting much better in these 4 years - arena is all about team synergy now, individual skill doesn't even fascinate anybody anymore. A single player just won't be able to make enough of a difference on his own to make it fun in the slightest, perhaps with the exception of one or two specs, and I'm not even going to talk about the obvious problem of team compositions and how predictable it will be. If they are reintroduced in the original implementation, people will play them for a short while, and then it will just be another dead area of the game.
Let's forget about the other PvP modes for now and focus only on arenas - it is a little game of its own, there's nothing that feels or plays quite like it, and it has a community of its own.
A huge problem with the arena system is that there is only one, ranked, mode. I believe it applies to everybody, or at least the vast majority, that you're not always in the mood to play serious, to play to win. And I believe every arena player has been in a situation where you wanted to try playing with some other people or your friends - just for fun - but couldn't due to being locked to their "serious" team. The real reason people want skirmishes back is because arena players simply don't have anything to do when they're not in the mood to play serious, or when their team mates are offline, or whatever other reasons not to play ranked. Ever noticed how many people buy Arena Pass just to be able to mess around without putting their live ratings in danger? it's always a very short sparkle of interest, because AP isn't really that good of a solution, but it's a good example of what people want.
And so, why not do the obvious thing, the thing that exists in several other super popular games?
Give it a a matchmaking system to match equal teams, but no ladder and no statistic tracking at all. No need for teams too, just let any party of 3 queue for it, even cross realm parties. Characters will still have MMR attached to them, and the average of that MMR will be used for the party - imagine it as if a temporary arena team is created. It just won't matter, it won't give rewards, it won't be displayed on the UI, the matchmaking system will extend its search range a lot quicker (aim for 2-3 min queues tops, even at the cost of equal matchups), and there will be no competition based around it. An organized skirmish, that's exactly what it should feel like.
Firstly, this will be a less serious environment to play in for the veterans, a polygon to run new teams or just play for fun, something you can queue any time of the day carelessly, something you don't have to commit to. And secondly, this would be a wonderful thing for new PvP players. It's just like the real thing, but without the pain of losing; I know people who tried arena, sucked due to being new, and never touched it again because they just kept losing. WoW arena has a very steep learning curve at least due to the amount of information you need to memorize and get used to before you really feel like you understand what's going on, being put straight into a competitive environment makes it that much harder; on top of that, gear is a much bigger factor than it's ever been, but let's discuss this another time.
Now, since I've touched the subject of new players... Let's go back to the real world where PvP isn't just arenas. The general consensus on AJ is "who cares about random BGs", but it is so much more important for the game overall than people think. Random BGs is the first place people unfamiliar with PvP go to, not only because of gear, but because it's the only type of PvP you can queue solo for. This is where they get their opinions about the PvP side of the game, and do you honestly think it's a good one if every second active poster here is botting, and some of you even actively support it? If I continue this subject I'll have to repeat myself a lot from an earlier thread about honor and battlegrounds, but key points were: the honor grind must be shortened A LOT, it's totally wrong that getting starter PvP gear takes so long; winning/losing shouldn't be as important as it is (random is random); and botting should be at least risky and more complex to use than it is today.
Another problem with the systems is how weird the matchmaking system is. Why do you sometimes not get a high rated team from your realm that you KNOW is queueing, and instead get 10 min queues into a team 700 rating below you? Why do you sometimes experience the opposite and get the same team 3-5 times in a row when you KNOW there's other teams queueing, and you even have to sit and wait for them to finish their game when they bump into somebody else? Why do battlegroups still exist even though it's been many years since it's possible for cross battlegroup matchups? all battlegroups do now is slow down queues for everybody and give out free rank 1 titles from 5v5 shares. Why does it take years to fix an exploit in the RBG MMR system, an exploit that people made thousands of euro on, and even humiliated Blizzard by making 5000 rated level 1 characters for the purpose of advertising? Why do RBGs have a much, much better effort:reward ratio in a game that's based entirely around character/gear progression? RBG is easier for the individual player and gives everything that arena does plus more (higher cap), that's wrong on so many levels. Imagine how all of this mess looks like to new players.
It is the oldest and ugliest system in the game by far, it's had so many things built on top of it and patched that it's just an archaic abomination.
There's so many great ideas out there. It doesn't even have to be unranked mode - that's just my take on it and an idea I haven't seen discussed before. Think about weekly challenges/tournaments with rewards - regular 100k gold tournaments would be intense. Introduce observing, at least in ghost mode like on a certain private server, but preferably more like the 5.2 Brawl (can keep it tournament-only). Introduce a best-of-3 mode for it, and allow it to be used in wargames.
Think about getting rid of end of season rewards completely. End of season rewards only promote cheating and boosting by now, and their value as an achievement of skill diminished to the point they're almost irrelevant. You could replace them with the aforementioned tournaments, or do other things like temporary per-season achievements that turn into FoS (f.ex. a new Arena Master per season, Flawless Victor, 2.2/2.4/2.7 per season). You know how fun it is for new players to get a RBG achievement every 100 rating they advance? Imagine if Arena had something similar, and you got Gladiator at say 2.5k, Duelist at 2.2, etc. And the seasons are really short so it doesn't get stale - you don't NEED TO introduce a new title and set of gear every single season.
Think about reintroducing 2v2 in some shape or form (f.ex. with a healing debuff, because right now healer/dps vs healer/dps is impossible), with rewards or achievements to it, especially something for the newer and less experienced players - 2v2 is actually one of the greatest and easiest ways to learn other classes as well as a great way to pass time when bored, it solves nearly every problem I mentioned here.
The way PvP works right now doesn't allow new players to enjoy the game. This is my entire point with this post. The biggest and most important reason that arena activity is dying is that old players are quitting, but no new players are picking up WoW PvP because it sucks to play with randoms and tank down to 1k rating on your first session. There is no "entry level" in WoW PvP, you're thrown straight into ranked 3v3 where you get crushed by people fully geared and most likely with years of experience because WoW PvP hasn't really attracted players for years. THIS is what needs fixing, and it's much more important than balance.
I'm not saying that balance is irrelevant, but no matter how good and balanced the game will be, it will never attract new players if the systems stay the way it is. There's a couple of very good changes in the patch - they fixed gear progression, which was the reason S12 had half the active teams compared to S11 (despite being a fresh expansion), and they also listened to our complaints about rating decay - we haven't even fully acknowledged how huge that change will be. Ultimately I'm making this thread in hopes to motivate them to work the PvP systems more, I imagine it's an easier task than balancing and is more useful at the same time.
Most of these won't even require too much developer work hours, and they won't affect PvE or other parts of the game. You can stick with temporary title rewards or gold and it'll be just fine for us, don't waste your precious developer time on tabards/mounts/pets. We just need a bit of your programmers work hours. Please make PvP fun again.
Posted steeze1 on 12 February 2013 - 06:47 PM
Posted Djandawg on 12 February 2013 - 12:42 AM
Reducing hunter cc, so that the healer isn't %30 inactive in arena by instants.
NS removed from non healing specs and put to 3 mins cd. Pom not interacting with cc spells except for arcane.
Holy paladins losing repentance. Doesn't make sense to give a the most defensive healer triple non dr-ing cc.
Resto shaman healing reduction, removal of tremor from totemic restoration. Holy paladin instant healing nerf.
Shadowpriest losing life swap and/or moving health percentage for disc priest to %35 so that they aren't in execute range(especially after phantasm nerf)
Also I'd like to see targeting of pets/totems with macro etc removed.
Rogues losing paralytic poison(as mentioned in the post)
The problem with the post in general is, you request change of dynamics, like whole resil system etc, where in reality some classes have already %14 crit with full crit reforge and no abilities/cooldowns to increase crit chance. So if you give say %20 crit reduction, mages will crit say %60 of the time but a lock will do like %0. There's a better way to address this, which is nerfing broken burst modifier spells and so on.
I appreciate the time and effort put in the post, good luck.
Posted Braindance on 11 February 2013 - 06:55 PM
Thread can be found here:
It would be great if any multi rank 1 and any of the more "famous players" adds some more ideas in the thread itself.
Posted CrossBlesserx on 12 February 2013 - 02:13 PM
Posted Eltekk on 12 February 2013 - 01:54 PM
Posted Thugjitsu on 11 February 2013 - 04:43 PM
Your name is, "Thugjitsu." Your posts all have very mildly veiled elitism in them. (Fought in the best gyms; with the best teams; know the best guys; can't help but laugh) You took the time to upload a picture of someone, supposedly you, kicking a heavy bag? Are you serious? You're worthless. Stop trying.
Lots of, "top fighters" are completely arrogant douchebags, like you're trying to be. The only problem is you can't. You're too shitty at WoW to have any bearing in the conversation here, and you're what.. going to fight professionally? Please. Lots of people who have been the best at things since history has been recorded have been hugely insecure, paranoid and even downright tyrannical.
Could you beat Mike Tyson at anything? Didn't think so, the dude is a crazy elitist prick. That is what it takes to be the best for some people. This game isn't even a PvP game, and it's so easy to get highly rated over and over again and your only achievement is one Gladiator title as a Warrior in season 9.
Drop your act, pal. You're nobody. You don't know anybody famous. You don't fight them. You're not in good shape. You're some scumbag who took one kickboxing class running around here now like the movie First Blood was inspired by your real life. You want people to take a step back and realize that your fake real life achievements are better than their fake in-game achievements? I'm sorry, but they're not.
There are two types of people who compete:
1) Generally gifted people with real, inalienable talent - champions. Tiger Woods, Mike Tyson, Michael Jordan, Lance Armstrong, etc
2) Insecure people whose paranoia makes them so self-aware that they fix all of their deficits enough to be considered good or decent, never rising to champion status - Eli Manning, etc
Which category do most people who play this game fall into? The second, obviously. Now, why is that do you think? Well for starters, World of Warcraft simply isn't competitive at all, so the second category really thrives in a setting where the boundaries of victory and success are so easily muddied. And second, why would a champion play this game? You can't even be the best at it. You could literally log on right now and be the absolute best that there has ever been at one class only to find that a patch coming tomorrow, next week, next month makes you obsolete. Why would any truly talented person subject themselves to that?
They wouldn't, so you fall into that category. Gladiator one time as a Warrior in S9 - need I say more? No one cares about your mixed martial arts background. You're a fucking joke. You'd think you'd have a Medal of Honor with how much of your post was dedicated to something you do as a hobby. You're a nerd, dude.
So why don't you spare us your tips from the bottom, throw on a Tapout shirt and fuck off.
edit: A GREAT example of this is Khuna and Reckful. Khuna is a tryhard who barely speaks any language, cheats to get ahead, is in threads like this groveling with 12 time Duelists and acting like he's the best. Ever see Reckful do any shit like that? Nah, because Reckful is an American champion and Khuna is a 9 time Duelist, two time win-trader, one-time Gladiator who has to commit real life crimes for in-game achievements.
Reckful is from the only country to ever be back to back World War champs, Khuna is from the only country that has lost more wars than Germany. Look at what a pathetic moron he is, lol.
Hard to act like a badass when you have to try and steal someone's identity to get the achievements they have in a game because you know you could never, ever beat them. No such thing as halfway crooks, bro. You're shook.
^Insecurity at its finest, thanks for proving my point
Posted originn on 11 February 2013 - 02:51 AM
Posted Kungfucow on 11 February 2013 - 04:07 AM
-Got A low self esteem bro? you can rent my ego
You are a complete tool. Egos do not keep you from sucking. They are the reason so many players DO suck to play with. I'd rather play w/ someone who is a good person vs. a good player any day. Finding someone who is both is what's really rare/special. It's been a long time since I had the pleasure of playing with people who were great at the game and also great people outside of it, I'm confident I will find some players like that again somewhere down the road. So far this season it seems to be one or the other. In the meantime I'd rather play w/ "bads" who are actually enjoyable to be in skype w/ as opposed to douchebags like yourself who think they are sliced bread and sound like nails on a chalkboard.
Posted Synkz on 11 February 2013 - 03:53 AM
Feels bad, man.
Posted Snackumz on 11 February 2013 - 02:50 AM
tldr everyone is gonna call me a faggot
Posted Jontex on 10 February 2013 - 06:00 PM
Posted Zerlog on 09 February 2013 - 06:28 PM
What is this random cloak dance global our holy paladin in less then 3seconds
and thats just the rogue.. our paladin is 67.35% resi full t2 (obvs t13 gear + t2 s12 wep) on the ptr
and it seems that rogues just cloak dance or killing spree idk and they do more damage the n2 frost bombs on the same target pre bomb nerf
Anyone else experienced this?...
so you que arena get que enter, you see a unhly dk disc and a rogue.
i dot the dk and rogue fear priest he trinkets into full hoj, then the rogue and dk go for me (im a spriest) the nrandomly 2sec later the rogue steps our paladin dance bomb and the DK is on the other side of the map, and our paladin gets globald in full resi and he was stuck in a global cause who the fuck would even think of such shadow step swap global in less then 2½ seconds would even happen by 1 player on such a shitty swap.
and the funnies thing is that the dk has no idea whats happening, goes for our mage and turns around half way and runs to the bomb where the pala died and is like ??? me zug zug ??
And im standing there without any idea what just happened:
Just like this
and i thought blizzard wanted to remove or nerf spells that did 2/3 parts of your HP by single abilities and i thought rogues were weak, untill this fuckn godclass yo
780k in 5seconds seems like underpowered. and he was not geming pvp power.
i am aware the paladin did not bouble, but who would have known that was coming, video is somewere on the last pages, i cant link it (i dont know why)
edit: could not get prints because our paladin loged out cus he got so mad <.< pff