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#3909940 Whats the point of melee anymore?

Posted Okayenhance on 08 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

Here's a question I've been asking myself for a while now. As a player of the most caster-oriented melee I still feel absolutely outclassed when playing against a hunter or any other caster in an arena battle. Why is this?

A few reasons I feel being a melee is simply not beneficial to the game anymore.

1. Casters rarely take more damage from us than they deal to us.

  Casters (and hunters) historically outside of soul-link warlocks were considered in deep shit if a melee was sitting on them. Why? Because armor actually meant something in previous expansions (WOTLK and below). So you actually had a sort of cat-n-mouse type thing going on, warrior charges mage, mage blinks, warrior intercepts mage, mage frostnovas, warrior gets dispelled etc etc. Now I feel that outside of cooldowns the warrior is the one that's consistently running away, what gives?

2. Mana means nothing.

   One of the allures of being a melee was a seemingly endless supply of damage which meant if you could pressure up a team long enough as a melee your lack of crowd control would eventually OOM the enemy healer AND dps and put you ahead leading to an eventual victory. Now there were some problems with this design (I'm looking at you viper sting/mana drain..ಠ_ಠ) but overall it was a solid reason to have a melee and a warlock for that matter. Nowadays I see games of my own and top streamers going on for 5+ minutes while the enemy teams healer is completely tapped and outside of sitting on a spriest who has spent way too much mana spamming flash heal all caster DPS specs don't give a flip about mana. It might as well not exist.

3. Dispel has a cooldown. "Welcome to CC-ville. Enjoy your stay! - Wizards"

   This isn't a new change, no doubt, but is one I find to be a large problem for melee oriented teams not just cleaves but melee/caster/healer. What is the point in dispelling a poly off me when the mage is already instinctively casting another or his teammate is casting fear? Why do these things not have cooldowns? While I understand having your dots spam dispelled by tard shamans in cata was annoying what is the point of bringing a melee over a caster when we are not only far easier to crowd control (as in, only enhancements have the actual tools to stop the spam CC) but have to actually reach our targets just to do less damage than the wizards are doing to our entire team?

4. Positioning

  Funnily enough most melees are defensively weaker than their caster counterparts, despite having to run into the enemy team who is pillaring if they want to score a kill or even get pressure (thanks gate!). How can this be? Well I feel it goes back to how gear was in WOTLK and TBC. Melee, especially plate wearers, had higher armor higher dodge and generally much higher health than their wizard hat wearing counterparts. What they didn't have is absorption shields and the ability to kite or cast self heals repeatedly. This is one of the several reasons why feral druids are so incredible right now compared to other melee, if they want to get out they can powershift slows and snares and run away while their bleeds still do pretty nice damage.

So the reason why I posted this isn't a pity party but rather my concern for the viability of melee in the upcoming patch. With melee effectively requiring a hunter to put them on their shoulders in most cases i'm sure to many the upcoming domination by wizards may not be too shocking. All in all here's hoping for the return of melee/caster/heals.

Am I entirely wrong? Tell me what you think.

#3890990 Possible fix for damage/tunneling

Posted Persephones on 23 May 2013 - 09:08 PM

Defensive cds are too strong. If you swap too much you end up burning through 3 cds on player X, then another 3 on player Y, another 3 on player Z, and you can repeat the cycle almost infinitely sometimes.

#3868267 Weekly viewer casted games by Conradical & Azael!

Posted Azaelz on 28 March 2013 - 11:44 PM

*** Next Broadcast - Saturday, April 13th will be on European servers, but may have to be postponed as I may be in the process of moving ***

Hey guys, been a while since posting here but I had an idea I think a lot of people will enjoy and after talking to Conradical and him agreeing to get in on it I decided to go ahead and give it a shot!

The basic idea is that you show up in stream chat with your 3v3 team ready, and when we're picking a game you post your rating and setup in chat and then we'll select two teams around the same rating and cast your games with the regular tournament UI.  It'll be done on US servers for the first week - maybe we'll try EU servers as well assuming we can get accounts and it's popular enough so as long as you're on US servers and willing to add us on battle tag you're eligible to play!  We'll be queuing up using 5v5 wargames so that Conrad and I can join the game and then you'll simply kill us off and the game will proceed like normal as it does in all the online tournaments.

It's going to be on twitch.tv/egazael this coming Saturday at 2 PM EST so please help spread the word and show up! We'll be able to make it better and better and take viewer ideas etc for this if it goes well - also hopefully going to be able to get some relatively high level games for the end of the night - and perhaps have the most popular team of the day fight against a famous team or something like that!

Thanks and let me know what you think!

#3861414 Nether Tempest and Warlocks

Posted Nadagast on 14 March 2013 - 03:12 AM

Apparently Mages are now better Warlocks than Warlocks are...

A single cleaving Nether Tempest hits for about 85% of the damage of a full stack of Warlock DoTs.


NT Avg Hit: 3469  http://i.imgur.com/C72nwAF.png
NT Avg Cleave Hit: 1819   http://i.imgur.com/u8TgZ0P.png

Corruption: 3431  http://i.imgur.com/85x1Tgd.png
Agony: 4119   http://i.imgur.com/r2dpHpS.png
UA: 5439   http://i.imgur.com/1PymEr7.png

Average total NT DPS: 3469+1819 = 5288
Average Warlock DoT DPS: (3431+4119+5439)/2 = 6494

Add in ~5% more crit for the Mage, and we're at 5552 Nether Tempest DPS vs 6494 Warlock DoT DPS.

That's 85% of a full DoT stack on a single spell which always only takes one global to apply, procs ~70k instant nukes, and is not even really a Mage's main form of attacking.  I would say the situation is pretty ridiculous right now...  Note that these numbers are from an RBG where I was able to spend more than my regular armount of shards under a spellpower increasing effect, which means in an arena the numbers would be even more favorable to Nether Tempest.

#3861504 wtf is this gear disparity

Posted Tosan on 14 March 2013 - 07:46 AM

View Postkannetixx, on 14 March 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

that is the entire point of this season they said it from the get go why are people honestly even surprised?

they rewarded players who stuck with the game despite it being worse and worse .. if you think that your honor gear should be better or even close to my 2/2 upgrades with the amount of conq / time i spent putting into it you should probably just go back to not playing anymore.

Cool you want to come back thats awesome - grind it like the rest of us until you get tyrannical.

Do you really have so little confidence in yourself that you desire an item/stat advantage?  I never understood this mentality; stating you don't think people should start a season on an even playing field is almost exactly the same as saying "I want every unfair advantage I can get to compete because I'm not confident in my ability to play better than others to win".

Maybe that's just me.......


  with the amount of conq / time i spent putting into it

My favorite part........as if it cost you something to get that.  Conq / time?  Conquest points are something you get from simply playing the game, which you are doing for fun in the first place; you'd do it without a reward as long as you can play arenas, right?  

And "time".......you'd be spending that regardless, it's not like you invested it specifically for an advantage, you spent the time playing arenas for fun anyway, the gear came along as a free additional prize.

You act like you bent over backwards to get 2/2 upgraded gear, when in reality you just got it for free for doing something you were already going to do.  

Always baffled when I read comments like this tbh.

#3861501 wtf is this gear disparity

Posted Conradical on 14 March 2013 - 07:33 AM

View Postkannetixx, on 14 March 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

if you think that your honor gear should be better or even close to my 2/2 upgrades with the amount of conq / time i spent putting into it you should probably just go back to not playing anymore.

I don't understand this argument. Why would you want to just dominate people that can't compete at near the same level? Do other competitive games force you to be stuck behind for months before you are finally able to do a fraction of the damage of the people that played in the previous season?


Cool you want to come back thats awesome - grind it like the rest of us until you get tyrannical.

Your Tyrannical grind is going to be MUCH easier than those that started again this season.

#3861385 wtf is this gear disparity

Posted Zaephyr on 14 March 2013 - 02:15 AM

View PostVeev, on 14 March 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

Already been said, but I'll bump/like every post relating to this until they address it. :P

I think there is some gear disparity, pls rep this post

#3861362 wtf is this gear disparity

Posted Smooviex on 14 March 2013 - 01:12 AM

it's actually impossible to even compete when you're in honor gear vs 2/2 malevolent gear/weap... you're not able to play if you're just coming back

#3860999 Season 13 First Impressions

Posted Coldizzle on 13 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

gear advantage from 2/2 malevolent gear/weap is just retard they need to fix it there is no way to play the game with honor gear atm.
an full honor mage  has 354kHP and 18k spell power(with arcane brillance) and an full 2/2 with t2 2/2 has 392kHP and 22k spell power(with arcane brillance) its retarded.
only after like 2 and half months the gear will be close to equal with 3.2kcap.

#3860981 Season 13 First Impressions

Posted Salutations on 13 March 2013 - 08:11 AM

Servers are up in 2 hours @ EU, can't wait to try my warlock in arena :) 2k dot per tick on 450k healthpool :)

Posted Image

#3804425 Blizzard about MMR exploit.

Posted Kettu on 13 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

View PostKewpa, on 13 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

the only logical fix would be reset arena mmr, bg mmr and arena ladder but blizzard won't do that because they are blizzard
There would be a more logical way for blizzard to sort the situation.

1. Fix the bug
2. Ban those who exploited and reset their teams / mmr
3. Reduce the rating and mmr of everyone above 2.2k to exactly 2.2k

Would fix everything without affecting 95% of the pvp'ers. If everyone's rating gets reset to 0 and mmr to 1500, I'm sure the offical forums will be filled with people whining for weeks.

#3750069 MoP Diminishing returns - updating the list

Posted WildeHilde on 25 August 2012 - 10:15 AM

This version should now be good enough for addon authors to use it. The spell IDs should be correct and although some spells are not categorized, yet, the rest is solid information.

If you cannot write in the general section, please send me a PM if you want to contribute.

[CR] = Controlled Root [CS] = Controlled Stun [DA] = Disarm [DO] = Disorient [F] = Fear [H] = Horror [RR] = Random Root
  • seems gone
[RS] = Random Stun [S] = Silence [N] = None: Abilities that do not share diminishing returns with any other ability but have self-diminishing returns. [NO] = None, not even self: Abilities that do not share diminishing returns with any ability including themselves Contributors

Thanks to all the responders and the people that messaged me for information updates. I will include further participants here, too.