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karynnbb

Member Since 04 Feb 2011
Offline Last Active Apr 15 2013 04:56 PM
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#3866808 What we can do to help PvP

Posted Thaya on 26 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

All my recent posts on general were about how unfriendly WoW PvP is to newer players, how brutal and boring the gear grind is, how stupid and archaic the PvP systems are, and so on and so forth. I'm even annoyed at myself for repeating the same things over and over in different threads. Besides, all of these are directed at Blizzard, and the chances of getting any feedback - especially on AJ - are close to zero.

But I want things to happen. So I thought, what can we - the players - do? What can the AJ community do?

First of all, content.

I think everybody agrees that WoW PvP is pretty hard to get into just due to the knowledge required to be successful. Generally speaking, you need to know a lot of things before you can even really enjoy the game and understand what's going on. 40-60 abilities per spec, subtle but important cooldowns, various lethal combinations of cooldowns/spells and their approximate potential, all the important defenses, various interface scripts/addons that could help you, et cetera. This game is only fun when you can actually anticipate things, know when to play safe or when to push (based on their cooldowns), know which things to interfere/stop to prevent your team from using major cooldowns, know when you can be stopped or not... and all this meta game is possible only if you know the game well enough.

It's pointless and nearly impossible to cover all of that in text or video guides. However, what can be covered are all the basic things that new people will ask, like: which talents and glyphs to use, how to gear, gameplay basics (which spells to use, which combos to try and pull off), what is my role in rbg/arena/xyz, which team mates/classes should I look for, which counters to my combos to look out for, where do I place my portal/gate (example of a spec-specific question), which things should I prioritize while I'm new, are there any addons or macros that will make my life easier... You can cover pretty much all the theory.

These basic guides are so valuable, it surprises me that people completely abandoned writing them. When I log on a new class and don't know even the very basics, like how to deal damage most efficiently, I really wish those guides still existed. I just want to get into the head of an experienced [with the spec] player to get answers for all my basic questions; even if I'm guessing what the right answer is, being certain about it would help the learning process a lot. You don't need to make it an in-depth guide where you write 10000 words for every viable comp, you just need to point in the right direction, explain your mindset a little bit, share set-in-stone knowledge (gear/talent/glyph setup), and give some general tips and thoughts. No more, no less.

Back when those guides existed, I would browse other classes guides just to get a better idea of how other classes work. It actually helped me a bit, because I could anticipate certain things better and/or stop them in advance. Sure, I would probably learn it myself even if the guide didn't exist, but that would probably take more time and more losses.

I'm not even mentioning the old matchup guides on AJ back in TBC. We literally had a whole section dedicated to those, i.e. guides about certain comps and how they're played vs other popular comps. It was brilliant.

What do we have today? I'll take the time to open every single sticky on every class forum:

Spoiler

TLDR: there's only two sticky threads that are up to date at all: Rets and Rogues. Shamans have no guides at all. There's tons of guides and stickies that weren't updated since Season 9 - that's more than 2 years ago! I even found a thread that was a sticky since May 2009, good old WotLK! Come on!

And the worst thing is that all of this outdated information is still getting views, because it's stickied. Because nobody cares, and because there's no new content. It makes me wonder what content editors are doing. No offense guys, but I see some content editors and moderators posting fairly frequently here, yet you can't at least unpin threads that are outdated for several years to not misinform people and to make this very forum look a bit more representative? What do new users think when they see Season 9 info stickied? Uh.

Look at PvE. It's the same game, it has the same problems, but there's so much information about PvE compared to PvP. Go to icy-veins.com and look at the class guides. Remember old Elitist Jerks guides. There's also noxxic.com (I love the concept of this one, but too much bad content). There's a bunch of very popular youtube channels dedicated to boss guides, and they're also available on icy-veins. It takes me a few seconds to find any info I need in PvE. Why don't we have this in PvP anymore?

If we actually help people improve, maybe they will be slightly more interested?

Secondly, forum structure.

Look at "Ask a Gladiator" section. Most threads have 0 replies, occasionally there's a reply, rarely a conversation (mostly trash). No wonder, there's no incentive for a Junkie to ever visit that section. I'm willing to bet that most of the replies in that section are because people randomly bump into those threads via the "fresh threads" stream on front page, "view new content", last post or similar, not by actually visiting the section. It's not that everybody is a douchebag and doesn't wanna help, it's the forum structure not helping that happen.

Class forums, I only visit the warlock and occasionally the DK one, but both are inactive. It wouldn't surprise me if all the other class forums are also inactive - people don't even bother to report sticky threads from Season 9... So I wonder, why are class forums still junkie-only? They could be the perfect place to answer questions and educate people. I used to post a ton on class forums on official forums just because I enjoyed answering questions and helping people, while at the same time refining and reviewing my own knowledge constantly.

Same thing goes for the 2v2/3v3/5v5 subsections of the general discussion section. I don't think they serve any purpose whatsoever anymore. You could drag them out and let non-junkies access them, so there are actual discussions about 2v2/3v3/5v5 matchups instead of being a collection of threads about end of season wintrading.

With some decent moderation, this could work wonders. I don't mean EJ-esque strict moderation. Just remove all the trash replies and warn/ban douchebags. It won't be that hard, really.

Leave general as it is, of course. I'm not suggesting to remove access limitations completely, but right now the non-junkie section is like a ghetto. All I'm suggesting is a bit more integration at the cost of inactive forum sections. Everybody wins.

Speaking of inactive forum sections, another thing that bugs me all the time is all those out of date, useless sections:
- "Blizzard 3v3 Tournament"? TR is down for ages now. And why not call it something like "TR Recruitment" because that's all that it's for? All the actual tournament stream discussions happen in the News threads.
- "Theorycrafting", what's the point of this one? Existed for years, a grand total of 54 topics.
- "NAO Invitational Tournament", when was the last NAO?
- "Content Feedback", I fail to understand what is this for. All the "content" on the site has comment sections for it, why does this section exist? People mistake the "macros" subsection as a forum to ask help with macros, too

I don't think it's healthy when some 20 sections are dead inactive. It sort of reminds you that the game is dead and there's nothing you can do, you know.

And lastly, be nicer to each other. When there's no textual references and all experience and knowledge is shared verbally, it matters more than ever.



#3867135 What we can do to help PvP

Posted Tist on 26 March 2013 - 07:30 PM

Few things, not really related to AJ but PvP as a whole:

The PvP community in general has been "dying" since probably WotLK.  There's a few reasons for that.  In TBC we were all new to arena and competitive PvP (for the most part) and so everyone was very willing to build the community and help each other out.  It was shiny and new and we all had a blast.  It was just a game back then.  

Since the inception of arena, it's evolved from a fun competitive portion of WoW to being monetized in several different ways, which has not only completely fucked ladders and actual competitiveness, but led to the situation we have now where it is not even a community so much as it is a glorified way to make money.  This has only gotten exponentially worse with Blizzard making it increasingly easy to transfer servers, characters, and everything else in between.  

Speaking from US perspective - BG9 was large and flourishing back in TBC too, and people pushed to make it "the" place to be even back then, but what's forgotten is nearly every other battlegroup had it's own communities too - even on the low pop or dead servers there were small PvP communities that played a part.  Having played on Shadowburn (BG8) since TBC, I can remember playing people from literally almost every server on the BG on a regular basis.  You KNEW the top teams on each server because you played them so much.

We've gone from that to everyone migrating to a few select realms to be where the top dogs and e-famous were, ironically to consolidate the PvP community, and all it's done is clogged up and funneled everyone into maybe 5-6 servers here and there, turning everything else into a complete wasteland, and really not doing a whole lot of favors for anyone as all it does is force people to these few servers in order to be remotely competitive at all.  

Another big thing I've noticed with this mass migration is that players have just gotten more and more elitist as time has gone by.  The top players went from idols to practically untouchable cult status, and this has had a trickle down effect by and large.  Everyone who thinks they're good migrate to the big servers, and its turned into one large shitfest of ratings hierarchy.  People will ONLY play if you've been this rating or that rating, or have T2, or all of the above.  This type of attitude is everywhere - I've played with legitimate 1800 rated RBG heroes who just talk shit constantly about anyone and everyone as if they're 2800 instead of 1800.  There's a lot of these types floating around the big servers who just think they're way WAY better than they are, and are ultimately content to just sit around "stomping scrubs" in lower brackets, or who might eventually just buy a title to keep their egos up.  I mean, I'm not exactly super high rated myself any more like I've been in past expansions, but I've at least been there on my own before and I'm not arrogant enough to assume that everyone ever who's been a lower rating than me is trash and not worth my time.

The competitiveness of the arena community is mostly dead because a huge portion of the few glad spots on ladder nowadays are either sells or boosts, leaving a huge gap.  There's a lot of players who WOULD be Rival or Duelist who will get boosts because it's easier than actually playing, and a lot of people who just simply buy Gladiator nowadays, something that just was not that this widespread in the early days.

Think about it - if you're even a semi-competent player, there's a nearly insurmountable mountain to climb here.  Gladiator is so far-fetched today that most either don't even bother trying, or end up buying it.  Say I'm a player who just legitimately reached 2k (itself a rarity today), what's my incentive to keep playing when I know that I'll have to queue into comparatively top tier players almost nonstop AND have a high win rate, just to get to DUELIST range.  We all make fun of stuff like season four, where the top 150-200 2v2 teams were Glad in many battlegroups, but the reality is that Glad and even Duelist were something that were much more reasonably attainable and something that perhaps the average player could eventually aspire to on his own as the season progressed.





And I know, wall of text.  Sorry.


#3866820 What we can do to help PvP

Posted Braindance on 26 March 2013 - 01:08 AM

Nothing will change here for the following reasons:

a)There is no sense of reward or punishment in those forums and in the game now. You can be a saint and get nothing or be a complete jackass and get the respect of this mob called junkies, just because you got "swag" (/puke)

b)The game atm can be played almost solo mode. You don't need a guild to do raids - you got lfr. You can get gear from dailies. In BC pve and pvp gear were interlinked - you could pvp in pve gear and vice versa and you had to work with a closely knit team to achieve your goals

c) The moderation is, as the word says, moderate. Moderators are too easy on everyone. Bans are rare. Infractions have too high of a cap. Any sociopath that had problems with his real life, can come here and open fire on everyone without any kind of punishment, UNLESS, someone, somewhere decides to push the report button which is scarcely used

d)"Good" players have no time now. They are "too busy" or afking. I remember in s2, the one that helped me transition from rogue to warrior was a guy named Dustman that was top 5 2s/3s most of s2 and 3. This guy was qing 24/7, but when I asked him for help (multiple times), he literally stopped qing to give me macros and playstyle advice. I am still continuing his legacy of helping others. People turn to me for help in messages and in game whispers while my title collection is the lowest of the low. Why? Because I care to help them

e)Bitches play this game. What do I mean? Instead of working around the imbalances and/or making helpful suggestions on how to improve the game, they just bitch. 24/7 they bitch about everything. "Why is my class weak?"."Why can't I have tattoos on my character?". "Why can't I can't see my character's genitalia to masturbate?".

f)You get the most +rep for posting moronic bullshit and childish insults. Good posts are rarely rewarded.

This AJ, is sending all the new players to either skill-capped or streamers. How many new players are willing to pay money to learn how to pvp? Quite a few. How many new players would pvp if they didn't have to pay to go through the rough learning curve? A lot.

tl;dr If moderation in this place doesn't become way more strict, if no incentives are given to junkies for making guides (even that pet giveaway that Curse does), this situation will keep recycling itself perpetually.


#3820994 Arena Post 15% Healing Nerf

Posted paiku on 14 December 2012 - 09:57 AM

and people didn't die before the 15% nerf ? :confused:


#3799337 There is gope

Posted Djandawg on 04 November 2012 - 01:33 PM

Assuming they bring mana regen and healing in line with other healers, no one will pick a disc priest over others simply because:
-Other healers have more and better defensive cooldowns.
-They have a second cc(some of them have a third)
-They have interrupts.
-They are less susceptible to getting trained. Disc has no mobility, no survivability.

Unless they nerf every other healer except monk and buff disc with stuff above, there will be no disc priest comps this expansion except some elitist 8x rank 1 people doing good with RMP.

PS: If you exclude the fact that all 3 healers have unbelievably good instant healing, why do shamans have aura mastery? Why do palas have denounce and 3 cc spells? Why do druids have displacer beast and ironbark on 30 sec cooldown and aoe disorient?


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