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Shadowpower

Member Since 23 Oct 2010
Offline Last Active May 24 2014 06:50 PM
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#4111393 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted Saikx on 30 April 2014 - 06:20 PM

Fear as ability on its own OP? No. / Fear OP in the current state of arena and class balance? Yes.

Sheep as ability on its own OP? No. / Sheep OP in the current state of arena and class balance? No.



So lets see the difference here:

Warlocks, unkillable gods in arena, can outposition the whole game(without punishment), 50% haste = 1sec fear casts, shadowfury or coil to get 100% fears.

The problem here is NO ONE ever goes for Warlocks, except some underdog comps or some people trying desperate shit after losing to LSD for the 4895495th time :^) So all the Warlock has to do in arena is to dot everything up(takes like 3 seconds) and then spam fear the rest of the game cause it doesn't affect their damage output. So Warlocks can just spam cast(no one ever goes on them) whole arena while applying unhealable pressure to the whole enemy team, gimping dispels and on top of that they're Immortal and have 2 trinkets.

How to deal with Warlocks in Arena? You can't.

Mages, huge burst but die even faster than their opponents, canĀ“t spam Sheep cause getting tunneled every game.

How to deal with Mages in Arena? Just kill them, they flop faster than the fixed healing stream lmao


I feel like People are underestimating how incredible overpowered Warlocks are at the moment(the best class in the game by far), probably because they can't "oneshot" you like those "OP" Mages :^)

Meanwhile a Warlock rots your whole Team(while spamming cc lmao) and makes your healers life a hell cause evey dispel have to be carefully considered. Oh did I mention already that while doing this Warlocks are also Immortal and have 2 trinkets? I don't even wanna mention Gate, I think everyone knows that shit has to go.







Nerf Warlocks or Fear


#4111327 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted mirox on 30 April 2014 - 03:44 PM

View PostPouncedd, on 30 April 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

It's not really what ability is overpowered atm but really a group of things. And that would be non CD CC. Fear/Polymorph/Clone.

Ever since 8 second cooldown for dispel was introduced it has made 0 sense for why these 3 spells remained at a no cooldown original duration state. OFC you cannot dispel clone but just the shear amount of CC you can put into one target with resheeps and clones is absurd.

For example MLD you can Sheep into Sheep on the Dispel into fear which won't get dispelled until 4 seconds in into a DR fear into a clone DR Clone and then sheep off DR all over again.

YES classes have interrupts to stop these CCs and YES people have a trinket to get out of the CC but THEY DO NOT have a ZERO second cool down on it.

A shaman cannot Hex then hex the dispel and then 1/4th hex the trinket

NOR can a hunter Trap then trap the dispel and trap once more. That would be considered over powered so why is no CD Poly,fear, and clone anywhere near acceptable?

They should all have a 4-8 second CC at the least and tbh should be even longer.
Theres is no need to put CD on spammable CC that is casted. They just need to make it so that once you get full polymorphed and it breaks or is dispelled - you get a debuff that is the same duration as the CC would have been if it didnt get broken and that debuff prevents THAT cc from being re-applied to you. Pretty simple solution, they already have similar mechanic like this in WOD if you trinket solar beam, so I don't see the technical problem with implementing this. You could still fear the target that just got dispelled out of polymorph, the only difference being is that you will actually have to communicate about what target are you going to peel instead of how it is now.


#4111247 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted mirox on 30 April 2014 - 12:52 PM

View PostPersephones, on 30 April 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Because this would change what, exactly? I'm not surprised that this comes from a rogue tho. "YO LETS SWITCH AND KILL THIS GUY, I HAVE DISPELL READY SO HE CANT PEEL AT ALL"

OP@ Howl is being removed as a baseline ability come WOD.

Fear being a strong form of CC is probably a product of there being so many ways of countering/immuning it compared to any other.

Likewise I am not surprised at all that you are warlock, that probably plays with another caster, and felt instantly obligated to write that. You see, there is this thing called CROSS-CC, which means that if you team does not want for rogue to be dispelled out ot the fear you put him in - you prevent healer from being able to dispel him by CROSS CCING him. I know, I know, this might sound really strange to some wizards that are used to arena 123 poly and fear arena 123 whenever arena frames are not on DR, but it is how you actually play this game.Besides, its not like you cannot have the target feared > dispelled and then polymorphed or coiled, or any other CC that he will be forced to sit.
Change like this would actually require people to have some coordination with their CC instead of mindlessly spamming it, and anyone who cannot see this is , well , a mindlessly spamming CC wizard.


#4111202 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted Vanguards on 30 April 2014 - 10:13 AM

My personal opinion on why Warlock Fear is so problematic atm:

1.) The extremely low cast time with high haste. An extremely strong spammable CC should not be that easy to get off imo, this particularly holds true at the end of an expansion when Warlocks have tons of haste, with Dark Soul up it's almost impossible to interrupt it without pre-emptively kicking.

2.) Affliction dots are a joke to get off, they have nothing to do but fear while still doing their maximum damage. Back in Wrath a Warlock actually had to make smart decisions about when to Fear / do damage / dots. Now there is no choice. You instant dot everything with soul shards, even with 0 shards all you have to do is cast a near instant UA and soul swap it over.

3.) This is a problem for specifically right now, Warlocks has more survivability buttons than ever, thus allowing Warlocks to push in on your healer and fear your entire team anytime he wants, since his risk to be punished for pushing in is so low.

Edit, here's what I suggest:

1.) Blizzard needs to watch how off-stat scales for CCs, particularly at the end of an expansion. Haste shouldn't magically turn some CCs to be nearly instant for PvP.

2.) Make Aff Warlocks have a harder time doing their damage. This can be done in numerous ways.

3.) Gateway needs to be changed... While this ability is awesome for the team using it I find it a horrible ability as a whole for PvP. It is horribly imbalanced on some Maps (Tol Viron) and not as good on others (Dalaran.) This creates more of the RNG battle that most people hate. It is better to find a way for Warlock teams to survive without resorting to Gateway. Having a match decided by the map isn't fun.


#4111136 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted Nadagast on 30 April 2014 - 08:02 AM

People should be careful what they wish for.  Fear is very strong, yes--maybe too strong right now.  But lots of people seem to be asking for more watered down bland homogenization.  It's fine that classes have powerful strengths and weaknesses.

This is a tangent and not a reply to Mr Bigmoran:
The attitude that's going through the community of "I'm CCed?  WHAT THE FUCK THIS IS BULLSHIT" is not healthy for the game.  You're going to be CCed sometimes.  Is it 100% balanced and never at all frustrating right now?  No.  But complaining about it in an unproductive manner just spreads the shitty attitude to more people.  Especially if you're streaming to hundreds or thousands of people, this attitude and others (these people are so fucking bad, their classes are imba, etc) are a huge drag on our community.  You shouldn't try to win arena games by lobbying your stream viewers to nerf your opponents.  I am not innocent--I do this too sometimes, but the number of different negative attitudes, and their usage, seems to have gotten higher lately.  We should all be aware of it, and try to stop.


#4110652 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted Esiwdeer on 29 April 2014 - 06:23 PM

Are we having a real conversation about the fundamental flaws of this game?

You realize Death Knight was released as the first "hero class" and there were never any more.. right?

The community believes that representation is a bad argument for balance issues.

Two casted CCs would be fine if the game was put back to the way it was at 60. It was the development of the debuff system that made the game what it is.

This same community rallied against (Diziet specifically, if I remember correctly) Vanishing out of instant casts, and jumping the same time that Fear hits so you don't run anywhere. If Fear was still as it was at design, good players could avoid pathing issues altogether.

It isn't anyone's job to balance this game on the level people pretend to play at. There is no argument for this game being actually competitive. If you are better than your opponents, you can win no matter what. The mechanics inside of that don't matter because nobody with any insight has considered them in several years.

This same community said SL/SL was fine, said RLS was fine - said that Warlocks have been fine for several years despite having the highest representation of all classes ever. If you played in S2 you could come here to find 2400 rated idiots that said nobody would ever use Focus macros, nobody would ever make focus/target keybinds, etc. Looking at you, Filovirus.

--

The community is dumb as fuck. If you are better, you can still win. If you are not better, the mechanics are meaningful.


#4110327 The Most Overpowered Ability in Game

Posted Bigmoran on 29 April 2014 - 04:03 AM

I know there has been countless discussion over what abilities are overpowered, but the locus of the conversations has been about long cooldown abilities like Symbiosis and Ascendence. While these discussions do have merit, and are admittedly not in vain, I think a discussion needs to be had over one ability in particular:

Posted Image


I think Fear is the strongest CC in the game and even the strongest ability. Obviously there are a few things that set it apart from other forms of long duration crowd control. These unique properties have made it the center of a lot of complaints including, but not limited to:
  • Its positional displacement
  • Its high threshold to break on damage
  • Its strength in combination with Shadowfury
One change I would like to see in the upcoming expansion is a change to Fear. I think one of two things needs to happen:
  • Remove Howl of Terror from Warlocks and give Warlocks demonic breath baseline
  • Remove casted fear, leveling the playing field between Warlocks and Spriests



#4113515 Camouflage no longer breaks from dealing or taking damage.

Posted Dillypoo on 04 May 2014 - 05:17 AM

U pussy's call me a mop hunter now, wait till WoD.


#4112930 Camouflage no longer breaks from dealing or taking damage.

Posted Lapeane on 03 May 2014 - 12:03 PM

Dunno what's all discussion is about. 1. It's not even fucking live or anything, I guess It's going to be changed million times. 2. You can say It'd be overpowered right now. But wait, they remove - scatter,silencing shot, wyvern (not sure about this). In what hunter is good now? Ehh CC? Imagine playing hunter with 8 sec CC instead of 20 right now, you wouldn't kill any hybrids shit teams. Never. Not saying about not having SS for groundings etc which is worst.. :) So basically CC is done for hunters in WoD, not entirely but done. And you complain about new Camo defensive after they remove half of shit hunter is good at right now? Seriously? Better watch Elemental, warlocks because THIS is the problem of current MoP season. LSD not having counters, the only one is dampening etc. Maybe on US not many retards play it but on EU It's fucking terrible, that's why Pojke doing 100-5 or w/e and 3k rating, thats why baten 2 seasons ago (yes 2 seasons with overpowered ferals, BM hunters etc) did 100-0 and r1 on Misery, yes 0 - he didn't lose single game in LSD. I haven't seen any nerfs for those classes, maybe don't read carefully, only 6 sec fear instead of 8. But if it all stays? I'd rather watch this, because if it stays like it is now, this stupid camouflage change won't help you at all to kill fucking elementals, warlocks with druid on top of them :) And its normal for AJ community, all (no offence) 2-2.2k players, no matter what class they play (especially wizards), they hate hunters. But if you actually know how to play, you counter them most of the times, and if not counter it's not like they should win 100% of the games.. Peace


#4113521 Russian players using Honorbuddy combat routines in arena lol

Posted djp771133 on 04 May 2014 - 05:53 AM

For some reason I always run into the guys using these at like 1600 rating 2s games.  Anyone else find this too?


#4112771 Camouflage no longer breaks from dealing or taking damage.

Posted zenga on 02 May 2014 - 11:29 PM

View Postjaimex, on 02 May 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

I cant tell if you are actually being serious or trolling; complaining about psyfiend as a warrior? like, what.. i dont even..

How is it relevant what class he plays? It's not like one can't have an opinion about x because he/she plays class y. There is a big feature in the game called 'alts'.

Psyfiend is imo on the same 'stupid abilities' list just like gateway, symbiosis, displacer beast, priest feathers, echo of elements, blood horror, double death grip, heart of the wild healing, subterfuge, ring of peace, old nerve strike, paralytic poison, burst of speed, storm bolt, ... etc


#4112675 Camouflage no longer breaks from dealing or taking damage.

Posted shunke on 02 May 2014 - 08:40 PM

View PostNexxer, on 02 May 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Aspect of iron hawk makes them really tanky on top of disengage root, double deterrence, RoS, feign death. There are many times as a spriest I wish I had the option to CC whole team every 45sec and crit for 130k casually.

wait, you do that every 30sec? and while doing that you drop a pet who automatically cc's the whole team again? ;D!


#4112633 Camouflage no longer breaks from dealing or taking damage.

Posted Slavens on 02 May 2014 - 07:23 PM

dying to thug cleave in a 7 second window doesnt make a class squishy

that can happen to every class in the game

and i never once said i had trouble killing spriests as thug cleave, i just said priests aren't squishy, and they aren't.. they are just easily trainable when immobilized which makes them a good target for several comps. if you did the same thing to a mage with no blocks or ways to get away, or a hunter, or shaman, or almost any other class in the game it probably would have been an even faster kill.


#4112558 Camouflage no longer breaks from dealing or taking damage.

Posted Slavens on 02 May 2014 - 05:03 PM

View Postswagoverlord, on 02 May 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

So you waited all the way until s12 to get a glad title? just making sure.. spriests are tanky? what kind of paint have you been sniffing??

holy shit, you're calling him out for being biased and stupid while defending the only comp you ever play

you're a fucking idiot if you think spriests are squishy

this thread is retarded, all it is is ppl overreacting over a change that isnt even what you guys are saying it is

not saying i agree with the change just saying, learn the change even is before bitching about what it's not


#4112375 Camouflage no longer breaks from dealing or taking damage.

Posted Pouncedd on 02 May 2014 - 01:26 PM

You can still see hunter during camo though.

Good change though hunter's only have ROS and Deter as defensive cool downs we really needed something more compared to other classes.

Us losing some of our instant CC for more defensives is a good trade up.




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