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Online Last Active Today, 08:21 PM

#4462376 New expansion unveiling August 6th

Posted Lolflay on Today, 02:20 AM

Oh, and if they don't make a new class, they're scumshits. Idgaf what everyone is talking about DKs and Monks, this game would be ten times less enjoyable if those classes weren't in the game.

Variety is everything.

#4459853 Buff sustained, nerf bursts

Posted ProdeGaming on 25 July 2015 - 12:15 PM

It is usually the concern, to make dmg and healing less bursty, more constant. Sustained should be buffed and bursts nerfed.
On the left, there is bursty dmg, on the right, there is what it should be made into. Higher sustained and lower burst.

Posted Image

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImageAvailable methods:

individual changes

all-dmg change

There isn't anything outrageous about all-changes, they are more efficient, reasonable, easier, quicker. It's not a single-handed change to expect a miracle to happen from, for all the issues, it doesn't rule out individual adjustments, fine-tunings made as necessary, with it, before it, or after either.

They are made to change, correct the average dmg/healing, DPS/HPS, they do nothing else, but that.

#4459934 anyone mind explaining this?

Posted Wallirik on 25 July 2015 - 02:33 PM

explanation: devs are incompetent

that is all.

#4458449 There's only one fix needed to make Ashran good tbh

Posted Avengelyne on 23 July 2015 - 05:53 PM

View PostLolflay, on 23 July 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

Change "Event Victory" prerequisite to "Event Participation".
Allow the Champion's strongbox to be obtained through 15 weekly 3v3 arena wins.

Done, boom.


#4457207 7/20 Hotfixes (Affliction Warlock Damage Buffs)

Posted Wallirik on 21 July 2015 - 07:45 PM

Don't know why snapshotting was "too hard"

I think that's exactly what the spec should be about

RIP gameplay

#4319163 Frost DK Research and Stat Facts (Patch 6.2)

Posted Flakkar on 26 December 2014 - 10:05 PM

*** UPDATED FOR 6.2 ***

Hi everyone,

Here we go again folks! It's about time for the 6.2 version. Everything is different now and 2h is taking the back seat while DW appears to be the best early in the season with amazing sustained pressure and the ability to mow plate wearers into the ground!

TLDR: See my 6.2 frost stat priority and gear suggestion at the bottom.

Change History:
Jan 13, 2015 - Haste rating effect buffed by 11.1%, Icy Talons buffed to 20% haste, up from 5%. Note that tooltips in the game are not updated yet (possibly requires a client patch), but I can confirm the changes are live due to seeing them on my stat sheet. See edits in green throughout the post.
July 12, 2015 - Updated for 6.2. See edits in blue throughout the post!

Special Notes:
(*) means I assume it's correct if not bugged but I didn't test it. I'll put this next to things I take for granted.
(**) means I actually tested this to prove that it is indeed this way. For brevity, I didn't outline how, but I can if requested.
(?) means I'm not sure, but if someone could test this somehow, it would be great

Let's start with seconday stat ratings and how much damage they contribute.

Rating points required for 1% increase (** tested this myself):
Haste 90
Crit 110
Multistrike(MS) 66
Mastery(MA) 55
Versatility(Vers) 130

Let's take a realistic but nice looking number of how much of each stat you could stack, say 1000 rating points.

For 1000 rating points you would get:
11.1% Haste
9.09% Crit
15.15% MS
18.18% MA
7.69% Vers
In addition, most stats scale linearly with the exception of stats that add flat % bonus damage ( Versatility and Mastery), which become more and more powerful as you add other stats.

NOTE: Crit and MS are nerfed in PvP! This may be obvious to some, but a lot of people don't take this into account when calculating stat priorities! Each Crit does 150% damage instead of 200%, and there is only one chance at a 30% MS instead of two chances. This also applies to heals!

Taking the nerfs into account, let's do an average damage increase you would get from each stat if you stacked 1000 rating worth. I will not account for burstiness here, because getting a string of lucky crits of multistrikes can always happen, but it will even out in the end, and you don't want to rely on pure luck to win arena matches.

Haste (13.86% (given infinite uptime) DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
Haste is a good stat for frost and provides excellent boosts to sustained DPS. Here's why:
Icy Talons(10% and 20%) and Unholy Aura(5%) apply multiplicatively, all haste you equip is getting multiplied by 1.1*1.20*1.05 = 1.386.

Let's take an example:
I have 15.50% base haste with nothing equipped. Icy Talons gives 10% flat, plus an additional 10% modifier on every other haste effect except Unholy Aura for some reason. Unholy Aura gives 5% flat, plus an additional 5% modifier on every other haste effect. This gives 10 (icy talons) + 5 (unholy aura) + 10*0.05 (unholy aura bonus to icy talons base 10%) = 15.50. I am an NE so I get 1% Haste at night, but I did this test during the day where I did not have that 1% buff to Haste. I also did the test at night and the numbers I see are consistent.

Icy Talons (recently buffed) also adds 20% more of the equipped haste stat.

When you add Unholy presence on top, it adds yet another factor, multiplying (not adding to) every source of haste by another 10 or 20% (depending on spec), as well as adding its own 10 or 20% base amount.

1000 Haste rating / 90 pts per % rating * 1.386% extra for Frost DKs = 15.4% Haste, but let's use 15% for the sake of example since it's a nicer number.
  • 15% haste means 15% faster attack speed, which means 15% more auto-attack damage (**).
  • 15% haste also means 15% more Killing Machine (KM) procs (**) due to increased attack speed.
  • 15% haste also means 15% faster rune regeneration (**), meaning that (for ex) over 100 seconds, a rune would fully cycle 11.5 times instead of 10 if you depleted it instantly every time it came back.
  • Haste does NOT affect the GCD because it's already capped at 1 second (**).
  • Haste does NOT affect diseases (**).
  • Haste does NOT affect Conversion, or Breath of Sindragosa (BoS), or any skill that says it ticks "every X seconds".
It's tempting to think that haste offers a 15.4% DPS increase, but there's a couple things to note.
  • Haste does not fully kick in immediately once you start attacking. At first you will get faster auto-attacks, so about 2.6-3 seconds after you attack, you will get a second auto-attack that will be sooner with more haste. But after that, it will take around 7 seconds for runes to start coming back due to higher haste.
  • Haste does not affect diseases. From my tests, diseases seem to compose at most 10% of my DPS. I don't personally think it's worth noting spread damage from having it on multiple targets as Frost spec. The damage is so pitiful that it will not factor into you winning games. You are not a rot spec.
  • Haste does not affect the GCD.
  • Haste does not affect Breath of Sindragosa while it's up, so it will not make it burst faster. However, it will make your runes come back faster, which might allow BoS to stay up longer due to the extra runic power you will have. This only applies for 2h because BoS is bad as DW.
  • Haste can at most affect the recharge of 3 runes simultaneously. If you don't have one rune of each type depleted, then Haste's contribution is being reduced. If you have 2 runes recharging, then you're getting 66.7% of Haste's effect. One rune is 33.3% etc.
  • Haste is uptime dependent. (See below for uptime explanation) This means that if you can't keep one of each rune type constantly on cooldown, then you won't get all of its DPS increase.
  • Haste also adds some utility because you will be able to use Icy Touch more often for purges, plus more uses of Chains of Ice, and you will have more RP for interrupts, Conversion, and Dark Simulacrum.
  • I also see a lot of people saying that if you have a crappy connection, Haste is worse. This may be real if you lose some time after runes come off cooldown. Try switching to Unholy presence and feel the effects of 10% more haste. Imagine that effect in Frost presence where you don't lose the RP gen, and see if it would be better for you.
  • There is concern that there's such thing as too much haste. This is true to an extent. As you stack more and more haste, Versatility and Mastery (DW only) become more powerful, so you don't want to stack haste. You just want some of it.  
So to conclude: 1000 points of haste gives roughly 13.86% DPS increase (1.54% lost due to not affecting diseases) if you have infinite uptime. In reality, this isn't going to happen, but it's extremely unlikely that you will not have at least a few runes on cooldown, which is enough to get lots of benefit from Haste. In addition, since Versatility and Mastery (DW only) scale better with more gear they will outpace Haste eventually. They also contribute to burstiness whereas Haste only lets you burst more often.

Crit (3.64% DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
Yes, Crit is really bad, and probably the worst stat for Frost, including DW. Here's why.
1000 rating / 110 rating per % = 9.09 Crit chance for 1000 rating.
So we are adding a 9.09% chance to do 50% additional damage, meaning on every attack that can crit we are adding 4.545% damage.
  • Diseases can Crit! Actually all damage a DK does can Crit! (*)
  • But there's a catch: Killing Machine. KM guaranteed Crits means the your Crit is useless when KM procs! Based on my tests, about half of my Oblits and Frost Strikes are used when KM is up. If you are really good at managing your resources, it might be more than half, but let's assume half for now. On my tests, my Frost Strikes and Oblits (2h or DW) combined do between 40-50% of my overall damage no matter if I'm bursting, or just normally DPSing. So that means that if half my oblierates/frost strikes don't use KM, then my Crit is not being used half the time, so the real Crit contribution is more around 4.545% * 80% = 3.64%.
Multistrike (4.545% DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
As Blizzard themselves have said, Crit and MS are equal, even in PvP.
1000 rating / 66 rating per % = 15.15% MS chance for 1000 rating.
So we are adding an 15.15% chance to do 30% additional damage, so by simple math: 15.15% * 30% = 4.545% damage increase.
  • Every attack can MS, including diseases. I am not sure if Death Strike healing can MS (?), but I am pretty sure that Conversion cannot (?).
  • Multistrikes can crit! And KM procs (if they proc MS), will automatically Crit on the MS proc.
Mastery (~12.2% for DW, (~6% for 2h) DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
For 2h Mastery is kinda weird and hard to calculate, but it proved to be pretty crap in 6.1. Now in 6.2, DW is heavily favored due to the savage buffs to Frost Strike and Howling Blast. So much so, that Mastery is easily the best stat for DW.

1000 rating / 55 rating per % = 18.18% Mastery for 1000 rating.
  • This means 18% increased Frost and Shadowfrost damage (**). But how much of our damage is actually Frost or Shadowfrost?
  • For 2h: According to my tests, I get between 25-40% Frost damage (when doing regular dps), averaging around 33%. Strangely enough, this applies even when doing crazy burst with BoS, because you are not using Frost Strike.
  • For 2h: So therefore 18.18% * 33% = ~6% damage increase per 1000 Mastery. This beats Crit and MS assuming at least 25% of your damage is Frost or Shadowfrost, which is a pretty safe assumption.
  • For DW: According to my tests, I get between 67-70% Frost or Shadowfrost damage (when doing regular dps).
  • For DW: Therefore 18.18% * 67% = ~12.2% damage increase per 1000 Mastery.
Versatility (7.69% DPS increase per 1000 rating points):
This is the easiest one to calculate. This is a great stat because it offers healing and defense bonuses.
1000 rating / 130 rating per % = 7.69% Versatility for 1000 rating.
  • 7.69% Versatility means 7.69% more damage across the board on all damage DKs do (*).
  • 7.69% Versatility means 7.69% more healing on Deathstrike, and other heals that are not %life based. Versatility does not increase Conversion healing!(**)
  • 7.69% Versatility also means 3.85% less damage taken from all sources (*).
Some ugly facts I found while testing:
  • The PvP target dummy at the Glad Sanctum takes double damage from crits instead of 50% more - probably a bug. Multistrikes are also causing 2 strikes instead of 1.
I didn't test anything for Strength, but it almost never overlaps with secondary stats, so not much to discuss here. Even if it does, Str gets so many insane %-based bonuses from DK passives and procs that it easily outdoes the other stats (*).

Putting it all together:
  • All the numbers are for 1000 rating in isolation. Some may wonder if it changes when you throw all the stats together and in different amounts. It does make a difference for % damage increase stats like Mastery and Versatility, but you need thousands of rating points to see a difference. I once graphed it out and found the sweet spots and everything, but it's not worth showing here. I think the conclusion is: stack % damage stats and just get some of the rest while avoiding crappy stats like Crit.
  • Strengh is most likely the best stat in all cases, unless someone can prove otherwise.
  • For 2H: Haste and Versatility are both really good. Haste is better in terms of pure math, but Vers benefits your early burst more (i.e. the first 7-8 seconds of DPS after starting with full runes). We are looking at 13.86% more DPS (but not in the first few seconds of damage) vs 7.69% more DPS (active at all times). Haste's benefits will only fully start showing up after runes start coming off cooldown. During the initial burst, you will only gain the increased auto-attacks and KM procs. Versatility does have the healing and damage reduction benefits, though they are less important for DKs compared to the damage benefit, and Haste has some built-in survivability too due to the rune regen for Death Strike, and extra RP for Conversion. This could make a great discussion to see which is better, Haste or Vers. Looking at the DK gear though, it looks like you can usually get them both together. If your connection sucks, or you think that Haste feels worse when you play, go for Vers since it is by far the best other choice.
  • For DW: Mastery is hands down the best, followed by Versatility due to the % damage increase nature. Crit and MS remain crap, and Haste is somwhere in the middle. Haste is nice to have, but not nice to stack.
  • I have studied the uptime requirements of Haste and here's what I see: you are getting 100% of Haste's effect if you constantly have at least one rune of each type on cooldown. That is, you must have at least 1 death rune, 1 frost rune, and 1 unholy rune on cooldown. Haste also increases autoattack speed, but most of the benefit is in the runes, not the autoattack. It's probably common knowledge that only one rune of each type can be recharging at a time (if not, see Haste section above). Haste DPS is only worse than Versatility if you are sitting on two runes of the same type two rune pairs for a significant period of time. I have been checking my runes for a few weeks now, and I am almost never sitting on two rune pairs while in combat (except at the beginning when all runes are up, but it takes only 1 GCD to put enough runes on cooldown). Even if you're kited, you are still using icy touch for purges (thanks Scoot), chains of ice, howling blast, etc and using up those runes.
  • There is no doubt that for 2H, Vers is better for bursting. Haste doesn't help you much if you're blowing ERW and Plague Leech.
  • Crit is flat out the worst from the numbers.
Stat Priority:
So the stat prio for 6.2 DW Frost in my opinion is the following ('>>' means much better).
Str >> MA >> Vers > Haste > MS >> Crit

The stat prio for 6.2 2h Frost remains:
Str >> Vers > Haste > MS >= Mastery >> Crit

Gear Selection:

Go DW this season. The pressure it puts out is unreal! Hope they don't nerf it...
Here is my best attempt at putting together a gearset that satisfies the above. For 2H, you want no set pieces at all except maybe the pants. For DW you want the 4 pc bonus, and the 1 piece you don't want is the chestpiece. Some of the DK set pieces aren't BiS, but the 10% Frost damage bonus is worth it as DW. You should also prefer nonset epics over blues.

Helm: Set helm
Chest: MA/Vers
Shoulders: Set shoulders
Gloves: Set gloves
Legs: Set pants

Boots: MA/MS
Belt: Vers/MA
Bracer: MA/Haste
Neck: MA/Crit
Cloak: MA/Haste
Ring1: MS/Haste
Ring2: MA/Crit
Trinket1: Str with on use Vers
Trinket2: If human the alternate Str trinket or Vers+proc Str one. If any other race, the 800 Vers stun breaker trinket.
Enchants: Mastery

Weapon Enchants: Fallen Crusader mainhand, Razorice offhand

Final projected bonuses:
+7.7% MS
+36.1% MA
+13.5% Vers (with 800 Vers trinket), 10.7% without
+6.0% Crit
+21.6% Haste

#4449389 Why do PVP Trinkets even exist?

Posted Lolflay on 08 July 2015 - 09:30 AM

This was agreed upon on many times. SWTOR had that from day 1 - built in CC&snare&root breaker into spellbook of every class ( it even had class-specific names and GFX, like, Sith Sorcerers ( think of Emperor Palpatine ) would strike lightning from their bodies when they broke CC, Sith Warriors ( think Darth Vader ) would show red glow and rage/etc ).

Just give everyone a PvP break effect built inside their spell books, keep the racials as they are ( or disable them in arena ), and give hoomans something else.

There are literally no negative repercussions for doing so. In fact, they could even design PVE according to it, design encounters where players have to think when they have to break a certain effect or whether they should save it - it's an extra cooldown to design for, and a fun one at that.

#4449128 Why do PVP Trinkets even exist?

Posted Soraven on 08 July 2015 - 03:10 AM

I mean honest, this is the most simple 1st rule in PVP to begin with.

No one and I mean no one at high rating would ever PVP without a trinket, its the same as auto attack, should be baseline ability for all characters to begin with.

That solve the "HUMAN OP" Racial QQing and finally use some logic.

Not to mention the feel of forcing you to use PVP trinket to begin with if your not human, stupid and boring.

I really can't see any downside for doing it, to anyone, to any race and specially for balance.

#4448366 What are You playing, Frost or Unholy?

Posted Forumz on 06 July 2015 - 08:36 PM

View Postdarklift, on 06 July 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Only been doing 2s with a healer so far and as Unholy i find it hard to even pressure double hybrids unless I get them in the opener. Rets + Feral, Rogue + Healer are games I end up losing.

Facing Healer DPS goes well into dampening where you can finally land a kill.

I am an average player but still I don't ever remember it being this hard to land a kill as Unholy. Scourge strike hits for nothing.

And I don't think it's just me either, facing Unholy's in arena as a healer seems like a game where you don't have to stay on your toes much and feels much more relaxing to heal through than something like rogues, ferals or most classes.

Yeah, it feels like Unholy's ''threat'' is completely gone. In Cata and MoP you had to be careful and not let him stack necrotics too high or else you'd be in deep shit, now you just use some instant heals and you're fine.

#4445384 [Bug] Psychic horror does not break on damage

Posted Avengelyne on 30 June 2015 - 05:05 PM

Definitely should either break on damage or DR with stuns.

#4444130 Jahmilli: Living Bomb

Posted Jahmilli_ on 27 June 2015 - 10:08 PM


Thanks for read :)

#4436831 What do you prefer?

Posted Seu on 17 June 2015 - 03:03 AM

View Postdrzy, on 17 June 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

rmp wrath mirrors

nothing else matters

It wasn't just wotlk rmp, but thats a good example of a matchup that has all the attributes to make this game enjoyable.

What makes arena matchups good:

- kill opportunities nonstop from start to finish
- no downtime or slow points
- unpredictable, have to stay on your toes
- nearly every "play" matters, and contributes to the outcome of the game

What makes arena matchups bad:

- kill opportunities dictated by cooldown availability
- "downtime" during games where nothing is happening
- predictable
- tons of plays dont matter, and dont contribute to the outcome of the game. you spend a lot of time wasting time and waiting for meaningful "windows" to open up again

doesnt matter if the game is high damage or low damage, slow or fast, as long as everything im doing in the match is meaningful and there is a chance that my team can die or set up a kill at any point throughout the entire game then I'm happy

#4436777 What do you prefer?

Posted Arteqt on 17 June 2015 - 12:52 AM

I believe most of the community, including me, prefers neither. Kills should require catching people offpositioned/setting switches etc. Not just training 1 or 3 targets to death. This feels more like a PvE damagemeters race atm.

#4434428 Concepts every player should know

Posted justicecute on 11 June 2015 - 06:54 PM


Muffles is on fire

#4434104 When you're so bored of the season-

Posted BalanceRexxar on 11 June 2015 - 05:47 AM

if you're that bored of the season you should do the opposite of whats in this video, give yourself a challenge, help someone achieve their goals instead of getting whatever sick pleasure you get out of watching somebody be sad. this is the definition of a toxic and negative post.