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ThastaMember Since 07 Jul 2010
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Posted Nyeshyo on 11 July 2016 - 10:03 AM
In MoP you could do 100000 things to outperform an opponent individually, minor things like curse of exhaustion into fear, or save cds until opponent wasted disarm to get full value and uptime during them.
This also meant that you could punish greedy/worse players and the gap between someone who was actually good and bad was significantly higher.
Just doing damage was a whole chapter of its own, a warrior had to actively choose between slam/heroic strike/overpower, and as any dotclass you had to take dotsnappshotting into consideration to get max value
Now? Press MS off cd and tabrend people, as a warlock you just press buttons all the time, and since your dots scale dynamically you might aswell go brain afk and press ur cds whenever you feel like it
Also, your arguments are a bit counterproductive since ability pruning actually strengthen specific comps versus other comps, creating more of a "rock paper scissor" environment, if you had more options to outplay opponents, you'd be able to play less good comps but still do really well because of better players outplaying worse opponents.
I'd rather have a good game than a boring eSport
Your retarded Swedish friend
Posted xndr on 28 June 2016 - 06:55 PM
Posted Maleficent on 28 January 2016 - 10:26 PM
I'll never truly get over pruning fel flame. Those fucking cocksuckers can fuck off.
Posted Zaephyr on 10 December 2015 - 01:43 AM
Posted Randomguy on 21 November 2015 - 02:17 PM
Posted Shouri on 17 November 2015 - 07:09 PM
Personally I think the biggest problem is lack of pressure, especially outside of cooldowns. This game has mainly turned into trading cooldown for cooldown and I think that's really stale game design. In wrath, and also somewhat in MoP, you could force cooldowns with just good swaps and decision making. Another important point is that pressure causes mistakes. People tend to panic under pressure being unable to think clearly and I find it hard to believe that many players nowadays would be able to go through their flowchart pvp while hovering at dangerously low health pools while knowing they have to do something about it. The main thing stopping pressure is just how tanky and self-sufficient too many classes are with dps class healing/damage reduction being way too high and the numerous amount of defensive cooldowns. It's at the point where swapping is usually bad as they'll have all their cooldowns up and the time wasted on trying to kill them will give your main target time to get all their cooldowns back. There's too much of a commitment in hitting a target.
Another problem is also the lack of casting, way too many classes run around spamming instants. Specifically for healers, things like genesis and riptide/unleash having two charges is pretty bad for the game. Deep freeze into polymorph is acceptable but I think it's over the top when they have frost jaw/ring of frost.
Overall, and probably most importantly, the game is just not really that fun anymore for a lot of people. In terms of class balance this expansion has been pretty decent but other than that I can't say I like this expansion more than the others. The three top comps(in my opinion) RMD, turbo, and god comp are all extremely unfun to play against for many of the reasons stated above.
Posted Bigmoran on 17 November 2015 - 02:20 AM
I've mentioned countless times in threads and on social media that WoD PvP feels scripted. My attitude is not uncommon. Plenty of other players have also expressed feelings of redundancy in gameplay. Overall, enjoyment of PvP seems to be at an all time low. While quantification of player satisfaction is often difficult to guage, the drop in sub numbers--down to a point in which Blizzard will no longer report them--suggests that less and less people are enjoying World of Warcraft. The goal of this article is to show how the scripted feeling of PvP and the lack of rewarding gameplay has contributed to the growing sentiment that PvP is not nearly as fun as it used to be.
What IS the Script?
I should first explain what I mean by 'scripted.' In order to do this, consider how a script works. A script is a series of relationships between conditional statements. A conditional statement is a simple if, then relationship. Here is an example of how this 'scripted' PvP paradigm might play out in an arena match:
-If the enemy Mage uses Polymorph, then I will use Counterspell
-If the enemy Mage is Counterspelled on Polymorph, then I will use Polymorph.
While this may not seem damaging at first, consider the fact that nearly all of the important decisions we make during an arena game revolve around this algorithmic way of thinking. For every enemy action, there is an optimal player reaction that is determined by the 'script' of PvP. For every matchup, there is one optimal strategy. This makes winning feel significantly less rewarding and meaningful. The script makes arena wins feel less like an experience full of ingenuity and creativity and more like persistent, monotonous labor. If you know exactly how a game will play out, your experience will ultimately suffer.
As an aside, there is one thing that we often shake our fists at in PvP. Although we tend to hate RNG, it is the only thing that interferes with the normal operations of the script. Consider an arena game where two teams perfectly matched. They have exactly the same gear, play on the same latency, and have the exact same strategy. Assume that either team will try its absolute best to score a kill while preventing deaths of its own teammates. Under these conditions, what would determine the outcome of the match? It would have to be RNG! If one team gets a series of critical strikes or multistrikes at the right time, it will allow the match to deviate from its harmonious scripted balance. I should add that RNG (and specifically critical strikes) actually contribute to our enjoyment of the game. Oftentimes players will suggest removing crits from the game. Doing so would be damaging to our enjoyment of gameplay. While it may seem meaningless, scoring critical strikes is one of the most intrinsically satisfying elements of gameplay. We love seeing the big numbers. We are enamored by our own ability to deal damage that lights up as slightly bigger font on our screen. I am not kidding. Big numbers feel better, and in a game we are wanting to feel good.
Holinka's Pacing Argument
Recently, PvP developer Brian Holinka posted on Twitter that the average length of games during the World Championships was five and a half minutes. Loosely veiled behind this metric is the idea that PvP is improving because the duration of tournament games is getting shorter. It is true that spectators want shorter games. During Cataclysm and especially during Mists of Pandaria, many players argued that tournament matches were exhausting to watch. It was quite common in MoP to see two wizard cleaves battle it out for 10-15 minutes in a series that could potentially last five games. All in all this provided for a very boring viewer experience.
The problem with this argument is that the pacing does not matter if the match itself is painfully predictable. If you carefully watch the final series between SK-Gaming and Skill-Capped, you can see just how repetitive the game is during its 5.5 minute average duration. Every 30 seconds, Skill-Capped's RMD does the following things:
-Uses either Bash or Cheapshot on SK's Warrior
-Cyclones SK's Warrior
-Kidney Shots SK's Shaman (the kill target)
-Deep Freezes SK's Druid
-Polymorphs SK's Druid
While there is some degree of variance to how this setup is executed, the fact remains that every 30 seconds the RMD is doing exactly the same thing. So in a five minute game, you can expect the same exact thing to happen over and over and over until SK-Gaming makes a mistake or Skill-Capped falls to the attrition of dampening. And by all means, I'm not blaming either team for playing the way they do. For the most part there is no flexibility with either team's strat. I had the opportunity to talk to Healingstat (Skill-Capped's Druid) and I asked him why they never tried to kill SK's Warrior despite him sitting in Battle Stance for the majority of the game, sometimes without a PvP trinket. His reply was that they had played thousands of games against each other and that the 30-second setup strat on the Shaman is the only strat the consistently works. In other words, deviating from the script of going Shaman is utterly futile. There is no point in playing creatively because it does not win games. (I should add that I also heard that Boetar raged at Joefernandes for intervening a Blind because he "didn't know what to trinket." If there is anything that grossly reinforces the script, this is certainly it.)
Bring Back Reward
Of all the things that threaten WoW's ability to remain the most successful MMO of all time, its the fact that the game itself feels unrewarding. While I feel like the script has definitely contributed to this, there are numerous other examples in which gameplay itself does not feel like a rewarding experience. One instance of this is the conversion of many abilities into passive perks and set bonuses. Nature's Grasp was removed from the game and instead turned into a set bonus connected with use of Barkskin and Ironbark. Cold Blood was also pruned and converted into the four piece set bonus for Assassination Rogues. The real damage of pruning is that it left many of its removed abilities into mechanics attached to other spells. Two abilities became one. Two globals became one. Passives are not fun in virtue of being passive. You do not actually perform them--they just happen. Mages don't look at their Flameglow reducing damage and say, "Man, this is awesome!"
Another gross example of unrewarding gameplay is the conversion of many hardcasted damaging spells into instant cast burst abilities. Ice Nova is an ability that not only removes 50% of your root control, but also tunnel visions gameplay into managing two charges of a boring spell. Casted spells always feel better than instant casts. Hard casting involves risk and should result in high payoff. While I do think the class has some deep seeded balance and design problems, Destruction Warlocks are a perfect example of well-balanced risk/reward. Chaos Bolt is a long cast time that deals large damage. When it successfully lands, the Warlock feels like they have done something that required diligent effort. Compare this with the feeling of using two Ice Novas. There is little to no risk (outside of breaking CC). The ability is pressed and the damage is dealt. End of story.
The Hybrid Problem
While this has been an important point of discussion for ages, something needs to be done to address the strength and role of hybrid DPS in matchups. Hybrid healing was gutted for Balance Druids, Shadow Priests, and Elemental Shamans but still remains a problem for Feral Druids, Enhancement Shamans, and Retribution Paladins (perhaps WW Monks to an extend as well). These physical DPS classes are able to provide instant cast heals to themselves and their partners and are able to maintain high damage AND healing throughput over the course of a 3v3 match. There is no good reason that an Enhancement Shaman should be able to do 20k DPS in a game while also doing 10k HPS.
Although he is one of the most controversial posters on this site, Bilian's PvP video continues to be one of my favorite PvP videos of all time. The RMP clips remind me of a time where gameplay was creative and each player made unique contributions to scoring kills.
Posted Chanimal on 11 November 2015 - 02:49 AM
Looks like they're shifting all the damage back into dots, which is good. I also like that Drain Life is once again the filler spell. But, there's no real mention of curses or fear changes, as well as no mention of SB: Haunt. It is an early preview though.
Also hoping that fear gets buffed/reverted in some way. It was extremely broken in MoP because of the ease of applying dots (SB:SS and SS no shard / cd). It didn't impact your damage as much then as it does now to cast fear. And when you do cast fear in WoD, it just breaks to a whiff of air. With lower DoT durations in Legion it's probably going to be even worse than it is now.
Posted amirdaheat on 06 November 2015 - 09:53 PM
I was more "O.O" when i see that :
Blizzard always does SICK cinematics, tbh they should just drop every game and go full-time 2 hour long movies using their CGI
Posted ContortedTV on 22 October 2015 - 09:11 AM
Maybe I'm the only one with this opinion, but here goes:
I think the rating system currently in place is outdated and does not provide a feeling of "fulfillment" to the player. I think looking at a number does not give players the satisfaction they desire when they achieve something.
Obviously someone who gets 3k would not feel this way, but for the vast majority I believe this is the case.
For some reason people always ask me this, and I'm terrible at answering it: but what is the difference between an 1800 player and a 2k player? Is there really any difference? If there is one, what is it?
I think the removal of the current rating system in place will:
1.) Give players more satisfaction upon reaching a goal.
2.) Allow for a greater variety of rewards for reaching your goal (I believe this is a huge issue with PvP in the game at the moment).
Let us say we change the rating system to something similar to CS:GO/League/Starcraft (I'm going to be using Starcraft rankings for this). The following might be an appropriate approximation of what we could see:
100-75%: Bronze - Reward: Nothing
75%-50%: Silver - Reward: Arbitrary Title (Wild Combatant?) + 500g At Season End
50-25%: Gold - Silver Reward + Elite Transmog Armor + 1,000g At Season End
25-10%: Platinum - Gold Reward + Weapon Transmog + Title (Wild Competitor?) + 1,500g At Season End
10%-5%: Diamond - Platinum Reward + Mount + 2,000g At Season End
5%-1%: Master - Diamond Reward + Mini Pet + Title (Wild Gladiator) + 5,000g At Season End
Top 100?: Grand Master - Master Reward + Exclusive Title + Exclusive Mount + 10,000g At Season End
These rewards are all hypothetical of course (as are the percentiles), but I genuinely think that this system would work better. Instead of saying "Mehh I got 2k this season, good enough", people will now have a clear goal to work towards this season.
Some arbitrary examples:
A.) Man, I got 2k last season... I want to try for 2400 this season.
Doable, but unlikely in most circumstances from past experience. This person could realize at 2200 people are significantly better than he was being a 2k player, and it makes 2400 seem unreachable. 400 rating as opposed to a tier is much more confusing.
B.) Hmm... I couldn't quite get platinum last season, but maybe this season I can and even go for diamond.
Once again, unlikely given the above percentiles, but it gives a clear goal as opposed to an almost arbitrary number.
This system also makes it much easier and less confusing for reward returns. You get to a certain tier, and you obtain your rewards based on which tier you got.
Obviously, this also causes another issue which is even bigger: sitting your tier. Well... obviously rating decay should take place (*COUGH COUGH COUGH*).
Instead of losing -50 rating every two weeks of inactivity like it should be, you now decay relative to your ladder position in your tier with this system. Maybe 10 spots for every two weeks of inactivity? This makes the punishment less harsh on lower tier'd players, and much more harsh on those who are in the upper tiers (if there are only 50 people in Diamond and you decay 10 spots... enjoy Platinum).
I also think the decay should require you to play a minimum of 10 games/week. So if you're inactive for 13 days, you need to play 20 games that last day.
I personally think this would give more people an incentive to play Arenas and create a healthier ladder environment. I know this is not the biggest thing on Blizzard's minds (or most likely on their minds at all), but giving players a sense of fulfillment will not only increase activity in player's efforts to fulfill their goals; but it will create a bigger voice for the PvP community.
Why should Blizzard fix mages in PvP when only 200,000 people care? Why should that be their biggest concern? If more people play arenas, more people will care, and more things will actually get fixed instead of these small bandages Blizzard keeps putting on classes to "balance" them.
I know this is not the biggest issue with PvP at the moment, I don't disagree. I also understand this one might take the most effort of any PvP issue (if anyone else besides me even thinks it's an issue). I think it's important to give the people who don't regularly arena an incentive to try it.
My girlfriend plays this game. I've had more fun playing with her friends (doing achievements/old raids/mount farming, etc) than doing arenas in this game over the past few months. Most people like her and her friends actually look at us like we're elitist assholes. I mean... we are, but that's not the point. Those people don't want to arena because of how daunting the task seems. I think that "2400 rating before you're relevant" idea is kind of silly. I think this could get more people doing arenas and creating a bigger, better community overall.
EDIT: Oh by the way, this only works if the seasons are much shorter... BLIZZARD YOU DO NOT NEED TO EXTEND SEASONS TO BE A FULL PATCH'S LENGTH! We could've had six seasons already and no one would've given a fuck. Actually, people would be happier!
EDIT2: Seems to be some misunderstanding in the comments. I would gladly fix the game mechanics/balance issues over this; if given the choice. I think making the PvP community grow will lead to more mechanical fixes/etc than just screaming "BLIZZARD WTF ARE YOU DOING?!". It gives Blizzard a reason to care if 2 million people, as opposed to 200,000, are telling them: OH MY GOD NERF RMD/SHATTER/WALKING DEAD/TURBO.
Also, the tier'd system is almost irrelevant. It's the exact same thing as the system currently in place: but with a set of "stepping stones" that allows new players to correctly identify what their next goal should be (1550->1750->2000->2200->2400->2700 achievements are not the right stepping stones and you guys know it...), and allow rewards to go out in an easy way. It doesn't matter if they implement this system or not, I think it's more appealing to new players: but ultimately the rewards matter.
TL;DR: The PvP community is too small, and I think the rewards/current rating system is a big part of it and am ultimately trying to propose an idea (that most likely will never be glanced at by a Blizzard employee, let alone given any thought) that would give more players an incentive to play arenas more frequently.
Posted Nahj on 16 October 2015 - 07:28 PM
Posted Jim_Jim on 18 October 2015 - 02:08 PM
Duel situation :
I don't know how much crit a druid have in PvP. (Maybe 15% i guess with the mage buff?)