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Offline Last Active Aug 28 2015 05:37 AM
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#4470710 Legion: How to Fix WW by Balance & Venruki

Posted BalanceRexxar on 08 August 2015 - 07:08 PM

Lingo
Spoiler


Let me start off this post by thanking Venruki, his dedication towards the monk class is very inspiring and this post wouldn't be here without him.

The main purpose of this post isn't to tell a dev what to do. It's here to tell you guys - the reader's - what to complain about because changes in WoW aren't made by single complaints, if they see an issue being brought up enough times they will be more likely to make that change.

source post: http://us.battle.net...pic/18300188992

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Now I know many of you have no intentions of reading all of this so I took the time to roughly explain this post in my stream and highlight it.

http://www.twitch.tv...xxar/v/10001120

Glyphs: 0-3:27

Touch of Karma: 3:27-7:05

Damage: 7:49-26:32

Mobility: 26:32-32:34

TLDW: Changes I want to see going into Legion - 32:50-37:52

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As for the textual post, since many of you are lazy like I am and don't want to watch, listen, or read - here are just a FEW of the many potential solutions that could be made to benefit our class so that it is designed properly.

Now, these changes will all make MUCH more sense if you actually read the post or watch the VoD explaining what is wrong so don't jump to any conclusions.

There are so many solutions to these problems you could go any direction and still accomplish the same goal. I'm not saying any of these solutions are the right ones, I'm simply giving a few of many possible solutions while explaining the major issue with these concepts.
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SOLUTIONS

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Mobility: Windwalkers lost our glove bonus, Spinning Fire Blossom, and an easy way to cast our Fists of Fury, all have contributed to Windwalker's poor OFFENSIVE mobility, we can run away fairly easily but if someone is running from you - good luck catching them. Not to mention disable; the worst slow any melee has.

Solutions: Make a Glyph of Disable that removes the root but takes it off the GCD. Another option would to simply make it off the GCD without a glyph. Making Glyph of Freedom Roll baseline, or making it so when we roll through somebody it slows them similar to Flying Serpent Kick, or combining Disable into Jab. The solutions are endless, any would do.
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Glyphs: Our old set bonus in MoP along with our glove set bonus were turned into glyphs when we already had 3 irreplaceable glyphs, this had a severe impact on WW monks mobility and ability to easily use FoF.

Solutions: Make Glyph of Touch of Karma baseline, possibly Touch of Death, possibly Freedom Roll, and depending on the change to Fists of Fury, possibly make that a 5 yard range baseline as well. There are so many solutions to this problem you could go any direction and still accomplish the same goal.

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Touch of Karma: It can be removed lickity split by any paladin in arena by using Hand of Protection, a minor cooldown that completely negates our most valuable one. I don't believe this is intended or balanced in any way and it has been ignored for two expansions now.

Solutions: Don't make it physical, thereby making it so you cannot BoP it, or if you do BoP it, transfer the remaining absorption into a shield for the monk. Another solution could be making some glyph baseline and adding a glyph that makes it so ToK no longer does damage but instead is purely an absorb effect. There are countless solutions that could work, one just needs to be implemented.

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Chi Explosion: Weak damage > Forced to take it because of our 4 set > Forced to use 4 set because of lack of passive defensives for Windwalkers > Forced to use it because of range because we are sacrificing mobility because of Chi Torpedo.

Solutions: Now there are many ways to approach fixing this, you can A. Increase it's damage (assuming you follow the other solutions for the other problems) B. Buff the other talents to increase their stack generation (for example: whenever you use hurricane strikes you gain X stacks of Tigereye Brew).

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Chi Torpedo: Does too much damage and makes us sacrifice defensive and offensive mobility and is poorly designed.

Solutions: Take the damage out of Chi Torpedo and put it into something else like Rising Sun Kick or Chi Explosion (or Blackout Kick)

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Fists of Fury: Is too hard to land and can easily be shut down resulting in massive damage loss.

Solutions: Give us a 5 yard CAST range, not the cone range that the glyph gives, allow us to be able to use it further away. Also reduce it's damage and increase damage in other abilities that won't get completely shut down because of a charge or a typhoon.

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Storm, Earth, and Fire: The problem is that it gives a false sense of damage and pressure. Monks who do respectable damage in PvE don't do respectable damage in PvP, just because monks may seem like they are in a good place in PvE doesn't come close to show how they are doing in PvP as we have seen from the start of the expansion (top of PvE, bottom of PvP)

Solutions: Reduce the damage the clones do and increase damage in spells like Chi Explosion, Blackout Kick, and Rising Sun Kick.

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Multistrike: It is poo poo garbage for PvP and monks have been designed around it. (Battle Trance and Tiger Strikes)

Solutions: Relocate these damage increasing passives and buffs into something that profits PvP as much as it does PvE. Or make it that multistrike works the same in PvP as PvE specifically for the WW class.
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PROBLEMS


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Now, if you are curious about any of these changes or need an explanation, I would highly recommend watching the stream highlight for a vocal and visual explanation, if not here is the text brought to you by Venruki with assistance from myself.


There's been many posts about WW Monks and some of the problems they face. I'd like to represent the class from a very unbiased standpoint and bring to your attention why they're so bad, and hopefully some relatively EASY ways to fix them. This is going to be a long post but I'd really appreciate your input and feedback.

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Glyphs


The problem: Two absolutely necessary glyphs needed to PvP - Glyph of Touch of Karma and Glyph of Touch of Death. Without these glyphs these abilities feel INCREDIBLY jenky to use in PvP combat. Without the Glyph of TOK we'd struggle to use our main defensive cooldown unless we were within melee range of our target. Without the Glyph of TOD it's near impossible to land a target to 10% and have 3 chi left over before they're quickly brought up in HP.

This has been a huge problem this expansion for WW Monks. WW monks had two key PvP set bonuses removed transitioning into this expansion. The first is "Freedom Roll", this was a crucial part of our mobility kit and we can no longer afford to take it. The second being Glyph of Flying Fists, increasing the range on Fists of Fury from melee range to 5 yards.

WW monks need glyph slots opened up and these glyphs need to be added into the abilities baseline. I feel a change like this would have almost no negative impact on PvE and could possibly save the class in PvP.

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Touch of Karma


The problem: Blessing of Protection removes my defensive ability, why? This was sort of a cool counter-play back in the day when holy paladins weren't running rampant. Unfortunately, now they are... and it's a little silly that a healer's minor defensive ability completely renders my main defensive 100% useless. Used to be a little scarier for a paladin to just BoP all of my Karmas because of 45 second forbearance, now it seems like it's worth it 9 times out of 10 and because of that my defensives on an already fragile class is at an all time low.

I'd like for mages and paladins to keep the ability to bubble/ice block ToK because the cost of using those abilities if high enough to justify removing my main defensive cooldown. However, BoP needs to not remove it anymore.

A Very common theme in arena is Holy Paladin/Mage, they can either bubble or iceblock it as well as being able to BoP it, so if I want the slightest chance of keeping my karma I can only use my defensive on one target with the minuscule chance my Karma won't be removed which it almost always does.

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Damage


Where to begin on this large list of problems... How about we start with our basic abilities?

In PvP we are almost exclusively using Chi Explosion because it provides us with ranged damage and the ability to increase stack generation through its 3+ bonus.

Why is it exclusive? What's wrong with Hurricane Strike or Serenity? Well you see, monks have been notoriously known for being "squishy", but with a change to our 4 set which allows a 6% damage reduction per stack consumed for 20 seconds helped with that issue, but it created another one in the process.

Without Chi Explosion, we are squishy, we are squishy because without Chi Explosion, our stack regeneration is drastically reduced, and without stacks, we do less healing, and take more damage. Simple as that.

So what's the issue? What's wrong with Chi Explosion? Well it does doodoo damage.

Our 4 stack Chi Explosion, get this - we spend 90 energy, almost a FULL energy bar to do a BIG Chi Explosion! It still does less than 1 Chi Torpedo.

This brings us to Chi Torpedo, our MOBILITY spell that we are FORCED to use as a damage spell.

Our hardest hitting ability is our roll. This seems unintended or if it was it is a major design flaw and significantly cripples Windwalkers in PvP for these reasons:

1. Sacrificing "rolls" aka Chi Torpedoes - requires us to jump and roll, so that we don't go flying off of our target, but what if our target isn't right next to us? Targets do not stand still in PvP, therefore by making us use Chi Torpedo for damage, we don't get to use it for it's intended purpose - mobility.

2. Mobility is key to PvP both defensively and offensively, being able to reach our target to do damage is crucial for obvious reasons, and defensively for being able to roll to safer positions or to kite.

Now that I've explained a little bit about our damage and how it relates to mobility, let's talk about Fists of Fury.

In MoP, FoF did not require a target to use, in combination with our 2 set (increased range by 5 yards) this gave us the ability to use fists of fury at a longer range.

For example, this is what Fists of Fury looked like in Mists of Pandaria. Let each underscore represent 1 yard.

Me _ _ Target _ _ _

(this allowed my target to be in any of the 5 yards available to my Fists)

In Warlords this is what it looks like:

Me Target _ _ _ _ _

(assuming you have the glyph on which you don't 90% of the time so in reality it looks like this)

Me Target _

Now (even with the glyph) you MUST be in melee range, even if you have the glyph, it is still difficult to land - a lot of the time I find myself pressing W for a second, pressing fists of fury to test if I'm in range only to find out that I'm not even though I can use all my other melee abilities. And every time I test if I can finally get it off, I lose a little bit of distance standing still.

Now that I've address the underlying problem with Fists of Fury, I'll address it's concept. It's a CHANNELED spell. Transitioning from MoP to WoD, the percentage of damage we do in small windows was drastically transferred into our FoF, instead of FoF being a minor damage boost, it is crucial to get as much damage out of it as you can in PvP.

So why is this a problem? It's hard to land and it's channeled.

Melee shouldn't have to cast or channel to do their burst - it's not the melee design.

Even with the amount of CC that was removed in WoD, there is still plenty to disrupt this damage, some favorites that seem to push my buttons are typhoon, explosive trap, the Warrior's charge talent (Warbringer), all of these cancel our fists of fury effectively shutting us down.

And we're not done yet, we still need to talk about our favorite crutch - Storm, Earth, and Fire.

This ability was made for PvE and has no place in PvP whatsoever. If you try to use this ability in PvP (which you are kind of forced to do sometimes) you will find that it is extremely clunky and obviously not meant to be used in a PvP environment. But why not? Here's why:

Mobility: They don't have any, they just walk, any class you put it on can easily kite it, don't even bother using it unless your specced chi explosion because chances are it will be out of range when you use your RSK or Blackout Kick and it won't even copy it.

Damage: In PvP unless you are specifically trying to kill multiple people, it is bad to split targets. This only really makes it good for a comp like Windwalker Affliction warlock, but if you look at comps like WLS, MLS, RLS, all these comps involve the affliction lock doing the spread pressure with the assistance of the other DPS's single target damage to focus pressure on to one target. With WWLS, you end up with minor pressure on multiple targets leaving you vulnerable from a confident and offensive team laughing at your futile attempts to kill them.

So the solution? Hopefully in the next expansion this ability will be removed, but for now I think a simple change of reducing the damage of the clone to make the total damage increase of using SEF so that single target and AoE aren't so widely separated in how much damage they are doing because if you compare windwalker single target to windwalker AoE, the difference is ridiculous.

And finally, the simplest problem of all. Multistrike.

What a lot of people forget is that multistrike is HALVED in PvP. When you make a class revolve around something that is halved you can't expect similar success in both situations which are PvE and PvP. Battle Trance and Tiger Strike's are bad for PvP because multistrike is bad for PvP. The only solution to fix this would be to reduce or eliminate how much multistrike we get from Battle Trance and Tiger Strikes and relocate this damage into something else.

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Mobility/Snares


WW monks disable is the worst snare of any melee.

WW disable: On global cooldown (severely affects your damage rotation), 15 energy cost.

Rogue Crip Poison: Automatically applies on auto attacks. (doesn't affect your damage rotation)

Warrior Hamstring: Off global cooldown (doesn't affect your damage rotation), 10 rage

Feral Infected Wounds: Applies off your attacks (doesn't affect your damage rotation)

Ret Seal of Justice: Automatically applies on auto attacks. (doesn't affect your damage rotation)

Enhance Frost Shock and Frostbrand: 25 yard range on shock and frost brand auto applies on auto attacks. (slightly affects your damage rotation)

DK Chillblains and Chains of Ice: Chains of Ice 30 yard range, costs a global and a rune. Chillblains is easy to keep up as it's a main part of your damage rotation to keep frost fever up. (slightly affects your damage rotation)

WW's are the only class that have to use an extra global to apply a snare to a target. I'm sure that doesn't seem like a big deal but in an ever evolving world of freedoms, power shifting, root breaks, snare breaks and much much more. Having to use the extra global to apply your snare makes us much easier to kite than other classes.

WW's also took a huge hit losing spinning fire blossom, one of our only ways to catch a target running in a straight line away from us. Essentially our ranged snared was removed and it made it that much easier to get away from us. Major issue with this is our uptime on many targets is limited to only stuns.

These issues in combination with freedom roll being taken away from creates a huge issue where WW's uptime is far lower than many other melee.

I just want to conclude this post by saying I love the WW class. The design of the class is amazing they just took an ENORMOUS hit in mobility, snares and damage which ultimately lead to one of, if not the worst class of the expansion. Please send help, SoS.

I had Balance (Steven) help me come up with and write this post.

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And that, is the work of Venruki and I. Please feel free to comment on anything you agree or disagree with but keep in mind - these are not all the solutions we want, these are just possibly solutions because almost all of them are related to each other so whatever solution there is for one thing will change the solution for another.


#4455119 state of deathknights

Posted Regent on 18 July 2015 - 03:30 AM

They should just rework the 4-piece so that whenever you cast Obliterate, you become a Frost Mage for the next 12 seconds.

Boom, DKs viable.


#4454666 state of deathknights

Posted sarma on 17 July 2015 - 08:46 AM

Posted Image


Thanks blizzard


#4438028 quick s16 success story

Posted BalanceRexxar on 19 June 2015 - 07:31 AM

luckily ive managed to capture some of my proudest moments this season, hope you enjoy them as much as i did.


https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be


#4437812 So this happened other night

Posted zzatbrah on 18 June 2015 - 10:47 PM

View PostGlink, on 18 June 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

Get my name out of your mouth and from in between those rose cheeks, faggot.

I dont think you've beaten me once this season. Money mike must've been working double shifts to carry your ass to blizzcon, too bad you choked harder than you do on kaska's cock and got 8th place though.

Also, I love how you tune into my streamer after I farm you're sorry game exploiting ass on your carries or real toons to hear my reaction. Thanks for watching, dont forget to hit that follow button so you can take some notes. And I love how you try taking all my partners every season. If my partners were a girl, I have fucked them
all first, and you're the sleezy fuck they get with after me.

Pce fgt.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across theUSA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.


#4431482 25 Min arenas in 6.2

Posted zzatbrah on 04 June 2015 - 02:40 PM

i cant hear any of you im already assembling my shadowcleave


#4429247 Honorbuddy won't work in arena anymore (y)

Posted Lolflay on 28 May 2015 - 01:05 PM

https://www.thebuddy...tlegrounds.html

Tldr is that it'll autoclose itself when you enter arena. Get fucked the few of you who didn't get banned, but used the bot in arena :]

Good stuff, maybe fakecasting will actually do shit versus all those turbos without their autopilot. Reading through that topic has been an absolute joy though - "amg, fuk u bossland, only noobs complained about botting arena", ROFL. Well, get fucked.


#4425781 BANNED

Posted Infernion on 18 May 2015 - 12:27 AM

rep me for no reason


#4422187 was it worth it?

Posted zzatbrah on 12 May 2015 - 05:10 AM

View PostDhorothy, on 10 May 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

I've lost a lot of braincells dealing with people like Dillypoo, not worth. Brain damage is permanent :'(
fortunately you have enough left to remember to bug your pet every time you managed to que ^_^


#4422139 What's the age of Venruki?

Posted Diasleramo on 12 May 2015 - 01:50 AM

Nobody truly knows how old a Mage is. They can grow to be centuries old, their age is irrelevant.


#4418862 Warlords Gladiator mounts

Posted Sykoh on 05 May 2015 - 10:08 PM

god fucking dammit, i knew it.
i am disappointed.  i was still hoping for a flying one.
it better run at 300% speed.


#4415814 if u hate the game click this

Posted BalanceRexxar on 27 April 2015 - 08:54 PM

so idk if you have noticed or not but for the last month or longer the front page of AJ has literally only been specific class questions or bitch threads about the game and for me that is not why i go on AJ.

Spoiler

i like the bigmoran posts, the xmog posts, the selfie posts, the WoW pvp video posts, the tourny posts, the glad mount posts, and other posts like that.




so i made this post, not a bitch post but something different for once.


please look at my beautiful graph and take note of which seasons have the big red arrow next to them.

they are all the first season of a new expansion, OP Dks, OP feral bleeds, OP warriors, and then what we currently have.

as the season for that expansion go on, the graph generally goes up, season 8 RMP i heard was good, BUT shadowmourne was bad, so it got a ok/fun rating. and season 11 was only OK because of PvE gear as well, a few exceptions.


so try to not focus on the bad but the good, funny moments in streams, tournys, transmogs, selfies, the important stuff because in a while im going to bet that this game will be good, but people wont admit it till the next expansion.

thx 4 ur time,
Posted Image


#4413846 Primal Glad Mount

Posted zzatbrah on 23 April 2015 - 06:17 PM

View PostOwnu, on 23 April 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

the WOTLK ones had no armory either
ur a pretty big chode bumping this thread


#4412586 6.2 DK changes & discussion thread.

Posted Ownu on 20 April 2015 - 07:19 PM

View PostJim_Jim, on 20 April 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:


Please


#4412457 6.2 DK changes & discussion thread.

Posted Jim_Jim on 20 April 2015 - 04:27 PM

http://www.wowwiki.com/Desecration

Please.




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