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Posted andysc on 29 December 2012 - 03:46 AM
This post is dedicated to the true greats of World of Warcraft - real legends who crushed their enemies with reckless abandon and extreme prejudice. Good friends, great teammates - competent human beings who have since moved on. People who innovated, had fun and enjoyed victory against all odds. This post is aimed at dismantling someone who means to take up the mantle of greatness in their absence, without reverence or homage - he who would wear the mantle of victory as though it were always his. He who would wear it while all the while knowing it is only granted to him through attrition.
My name is Reed. You may know me better as Reedful, or Reedwise. This post is not about how great I am, merely how terrible someone else is. Please try to understand this not from my perspective, but from the perspective of everyone who has ever truly been the best at this game, found that it offered them nothing once they were at the top, and quit like a man.
Anyways, if you're still reading, you know who I am. Bailamos was a rival RBG team captain during the end of season 9/beginning of season 10, when me and my ragtag band of gangsters were at our prime in the World of Warcraft. To preface, when I say rival, it's important to note that I mean that more literally than figuratively. To be concise, I mean that we didn't view them as competition, and that I'm pretty sure his actual most prestigious arena title earned is, "Rival." - despite his shady helmets on this website.
A little back-story here, before we begin: Bailamos(hereafter occasionally referred to as Jordan) was a Human Rogue on Kel'thuzad. Ironically the guild master of <Girls Should Be Healers> at the time, he had nearly a thousand RBGs played in those seasons alone. Bailamos has been Gladiator one time by purchasing it in season 9(I know this because he and his girlfriend had a fight about the expenditure, which she told me about.) Jordan resided in Kent, Washington with his girlfriend, Katie - I was stationed at Fort Lewis, at the time.
To begin: my team's personal record was 114-7. We trounced every other major team out there. That isn't to say we've never lost to them, but we mostly won. Anyway, we had been playing for almost all of season 9 and season 10 was fast approaching. Real life intervened and some of my less reliable members began to flake out, or announce their upcoming unavailability. My first priority was recruiting a Rogue. We'd never actually played against Bailamos at this point but word had gotten around that they wanted a piece of us, and a piece is certainly what almost all of them would end up getting(unfortunately for Bailamos, his girlfriend would be receiving a very specific piece, over and over again)
Now for the dramatic parts: I made an alt on Kel'thuzad and, as always, my reputation preceded me. He/she invited me to the guild, and began chatting me up in the traditional way a legend is received. Trumpets were sounded, feasts were readied. Normally I'd post chat logs to add authenticity to my tale of sexual duplicity but this was ages ago, so nude pictures will suffice. Anyways, Bailamos starts in with all this flattery and I deployed my usual, never-fail pick up line: "you a lady?"
He said yes, he was a lady. Then we got down to business; I asked if he wanted to come play for me and my guild in RBGs. He said he would transfer if my team was capable of beating his. I accepted with a general sense of chivalry and sexual competition, all the while thinking I was courting a lady whose RBG team was only a few tiers under mine.
Having never backed down from any challenge ever, I accepted. We finally were able to coordinate queuing into each other, and the rest is legend. When we met them in Gilneas post-nerf, they had a few R1s, a pretty strong line up and I was talking with Kathryn ******* on RealID. The game started out, and I ordered my trademarked, "Hannibal ante portas" Gilneas strategy. We had 3 capped them before the fourth minute, and tales of my and Spacejelly'z legendary damage were heralded by the scoreboard.
This next part is really the crux of my story. I was instantly removed from Real ID by Kathryn *******, no one followed up with me about how badly they lost this supposed grudge match, and nothing was mentioned about our gentleman's wager. Then, I took a ten minute break and came back to find that I had a new Skype contact request. I accepted it, and.. the person on the other side of the screen said their name was Katie and asked if I had some time to talk. I ordered my men to stand down, and take a break - I think they all went to get some beef jerky, and maybe bench 225 a few times to get warmed up. She explained that she was Jordan's girlfriend, that she had been watching the entire fiasco between me and him and that she was so disgusted that he had actually pretended to be a girl.
More importantly, though, she said that she had been reading all of it, the entire time, and that she was really intrigued by my writing style and the tales of my glory in ground combat in Fallujah that I had been using to pursue the person I thought I was talking to. "Where do you live?" I inquired.
"Seattle." she said. Less than thirty minutes away.
At the time of this miscellaneous romantic encounter, I was stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington - a magical location that she estimated to be 45 minutes away from where she and Jordan lived. Her actual address came out to be closer to 25 minutes. I am getting ahead of myself, however. I wasn't gonna meet up with just any broad, so naturally I inquired as to the status and measurements of her various womanly assets, and the pictures are as follows:
A solid 7, in my opinion. Anyways, we talked some more and it turned out that she was just fed up with Jordan aka Bailamos. She said he never left their apartment, he spent all of their savings on buying Gladiator that season and that the sex was terrible and constant. I offered to alleviate almost all of her relationship problems with a meeting for coffee and a potential remedy.
The remedy was my legendary wizard dick.
She regaled me with tales on how hanging out with me was like hanging out with someone from The Rolling Stones. She told her mother about me and, at quite a few intervals, she asked if she could watch me PvP from the laptop she brought with her in the hotel room I had to get, because I didn't want to ruin my sheets(threadcount, nah mean.) She blurted out some business about how Bailamos and her had talked about me briefly in between bouts of rabbit-like lovemaking, about how tremendously he was effected by my way with words, and how angry it made him. She was attracted to my numerous Red Helmets, my prowess with a keyboard and my dimples - not to mention my pecs, Bronze Star with Valor, and Land Rover.
She had 8 days before she was going back to live with her parents - Jordan didn't know yet, but she was committed to breaking up with him. I was still on active duty in the infantry at the time, so I was pretty busy. But once I knew she was leaving, she went from friend with benefits to rental car status. I rode her into the ground on several occasions. In my car, standing outside my car, in a hotel room, in my apartment, in a bathroom in a Subway. I mean that seriously Jordan. I want you to know that I banged your girlfriend a lot. Sometimes, I didn't even want to do it again. I'd be tired, and she'd be less than fresh. But I did do it again. Because you though you were better than me, talked shit, and lost like a woman.
Don't get me wrong, however: Kathryn ******* is an absolutely fantastic lay, with the libido of a 13 year old boy(not that I would know anything about 13 year old boys, despite what my fanbase on Korgath had to say.) We had less than a week left until she left you to move back in with her parents, and I literally did things to her that I would never do to a person I thought I'd ever have to see again. I really want you to know that. You were leading RBGs with less talent and skill than I, while I had enough free time to ruin your girlfriend for other men sexually for the next three months and still be better than you at something you devoted your life to.
<<< Of course, things started getting crazy towards the end. She got more emotional, which I wouldn't tolerate, and she got really self-conscious about moving back home with her parents. This part is for you, Bailamos. Because you told people you were better than us: she told me, the night she left, that I could have anything I wanted. I won't tell you what I did, but I will tell you where I did it. I opened the rear door on my Land Rover on an abandoned mortar range on Fort Lewis, and railed your girlfriend for fifteen minutes. I didn't measure, but I'd estimate my thrusting moved my 6000 pound car approximately 15 feet during the ordeal.
And I swear to god, when she said, "I'm going to be sore for the entire plane ride."
"I live my life a quarter mile at a time."
This is when the story gets back to WoW again. So, she left. I don't know what Jordan knew, or didn't know. I got what I came for, and I don't care about that nerd. Anyway, me and my boys kept queuing and one fateful night, in the hallowed Arathi Basin we fought them again. Their leader whose life was ripe with emotional pain from his recent breakup was absolutely waylaid by my team's synergy, strategy and skill. Our Priest, Henry, never even joined the game.
We crushed them by 500 points, 9v10. With two healers.
Of course, they still talked trash that one of their members was bad, or something. It wasn't their A team, yadda yadda. They were actually streaming during the event and were planning out these big strategies revolving around the 9v10s.
I have more pictures if anyone wants them - a lot more. I don't know what more I can do to prove this story is true, but you'll know it's true. Anyone who knows Bailamos will know this story is completely true. If you're reading this, and you sympathize with me and anyone else who has ever witnessed the throne of this game being taken over by not the best, but just who is left: please, copy and paste this, spread this story, save this in the annals of World of Warcraft history. Tell all who will listen how quickly fake champions can lose their titles, prestige and status.
Perhaps you might have noticed throughout my career that I, like Led Zeppelin, have been inspired by Lord of the Rings. You might have even noticed that my avatar is now Gandalf the White. Because I, like all the legends of yesteryear, am moving on. I just wanted the satisfaction of dismounting false king before I, like Gandalf, move on now to the Gray havens - the undying lands reserved for legends.
And to you, Bailamos: you're merely a placeholder; wasting away, playing a game whose expiration has long since come and gone. Authority is not given to you to deny the return of the king, steward. Just remember every time you say you're the best, someone crushed you under their weight with ease, while you had superior numbers and odds.
That's all I want: for you to remember that.
Get crushed, weakling.
That is all.
Posted Eldacar on 03 September 2012 - 01:00 AM
Eldacar's Guide to PVP Power & Resilience
Hello PVP'ers! For those of you that don't know me I go by Eldacar and I am a long time PVP'er and PVP Theorycrafter, as well as a member of Blizzard's forum MVP program. I write PVP focused guides and do everything I can to help the PVP community grow and prosper, which is why I wrote this PVP Stats Guide. You can find me on twitter as @EldacarJS and on the US Official Forums as Eldacar@Boulderfist. This guide goes into a lot of detail and gets into some complex stuff in a few places, if you have questions leave them in the comments and I will answer them as best I can.
** PATCH 5.4 CHANGES**
- The base damage reduction of Resilience was increased to 72%.
- The Resilience rating to damage reduction conversion formula was altered.
Summary & Key Points:
-Resilience has linear returns, +100 Resilience rating increases your effective health by 1.235% relative to displayed health.
-PVP Power has linear returns, +400 PVP Power gives you +1% damage or healing in PVP (before spec modifiers).
-The latest season's PVP gear is generally the best gear for instanced PVP, however in world PVP players with heroic raiding gear will have an advantage.
-PVP Power does not cancel out a target's Resilience but it will still help you hit them or heal them harder.
-It is generally ineffective to gem for PVP Power, gemming for primary stats is more effective in most cases.
-The PVP trinket set bonus offers roughly 8.25% effective damage reduction and will always increase your effective health by 32.11% of your displayed health.
Table of Contents:
Section 1 - Resilience
1A - The Exponential Returns of Damage Reduction
1B - The Diminishing Returns of Resilience Rating
1C - Baseline Damage Reduction
1D - Effective Health
1E - The Full Scale of Resilience
1F – Resilience on Items
Section 2 - PVP Power
2A - The Absolute vs Relative Returns of PVP Power
2B - PVP Power's Interaction with Resilience
Section 3 - Gemming for PVP
Section 4 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks
Section 5 - Appendix
Appendix A - Valuation and Frame of Reference
Appendix B - Formulas
Section 1 - Resilience
Everyone reading this likely already has at least a general understanding of how Resilience works; its fundamental purpose is to provide percentage based damage reduction against all damage done by players, the more Resilience you have the less damage you take. That is fairly straightforward and easy to understand; however understanding how the stat scales and all the factors at work is more complicated. There are three main factors that go into how Resilience scales, first is the exponential returns of percentage based damage reduction, second is the diminishing returns of Resilience rating, and third is the baseline 72% reduction that all players have in PVP.
Section 1A - The Exponential Returns of Damage Reduction
The effects of percentage based damage reduction scale exponentially, the more you have the more valuable additional damage reduction becomes. For example, let's say someone is hitting you for 100 damage, if you have 0% damage reduction and you add 1% that 100 damage is reduced to 99 damage, a 1% effective reduction. However if you already have 90% damage reduction and you add another 1% that 100 base damage which was already reduced to 10 is now further reduced to 9. That change in incoming damage from 10 to 9 is a 10% reduction in actual damage taken by adding just 1% of damage reduction.
Here is a graph that shows how the value of damage reduction increases as you gain more:
As you can see at 50% damage reduction additional reduction is worth twice as much as normal, at 90% its worth ten times as much as normal. This kind of scaling isn't unique to Resilience, armor and any other percentage based damage reduction (even in other games) function the same way. Games control the overall scaling of these mechanics by manipulating how fast you are awarded the damage reduction.
One additional note on this, in World of Warcraft different damage reduction mechanics have multiplicative relationships NOT additive, what that means is that the value scaling for any one of these mechanics is only accurate within that one mechanic. At 50% damage reduction from Resilience an extra 1% from Resilience is effectively worth 2%, however none of this has any bearing on the value of additional damage reduction from say armor, that scales totally independently but in a similar fashion. Because these defensive stats scale independently from each other and have a multiplicative relationship they can each be examined and valued independently.
Section 1B - The Diminishing Returns of Resilience Rating
For Resilience the main factor that counters the exponential scaling of percentage based damage reduction is the diminishing returns on Resilience rating. The more Resilience rating you have the less damage reduction is awarded by each additional point of rating, as shown in the graph below. This is how Blizzard controls the overall scaling of Resilience as a whole, and it is what they change when they want to alter the way Resilience scales.
As you can see in the graph, the amount of additional damage reduction provided by additional Resilience gradually declines as Resilience rating increases.
Section 1C - Baseline PVP Damage Reduction
Mists of Pandaria added a new factor to the way Resilience scales, the baseline PVP damage reduction that all players have which was increased from 65% to 72% in patch 5.4. What this has effectively done is significantly shrink the damage reduction gap between under geared players and fully geared players. This combined with the limited availability of Resilience on gear and through gems has significantly lessened the impact of resilience as a stat at level 90. The difference in damage reduction between a fresh level 90 and someone in the best possible pvp gear is now relatively small.
Section 1D - Effective Health
Effective Health (or EH) is perhaps the most critical metric for measuring survivability. Effective health is essentially how much pre-mitigated damage it takes to kill you. If you have 100k health and 0% damage reduction your effective health is just that same 100k. However if you have 100k health and 50% damage reduction your effective health is 200k, because someone would need to do the equivalent of 200k pre-mitigaged damage to kill you.
It is also important to note that more than just increasing the size of your effective health pool, damage reduction also increases the relative effectiveness of heals on you. With 50% damage reduction a 1k heal actually restores 2k of effective health. This is one of the reasons why increasing your effective health through damage reduction is better than increasing your effective health an equivalent amount through raw stamina.
Effective health is really the stat that best indicates the value you are getting from Resilience and it is the stat you need to be paying attention to when evaluating the survivability of your character. Effective health is displayed on the graphs below as a percentage relative to displayed health, an effective health (EH) value of 150% for a player with a 100k displayed health pool would mean that player has an effective health from just Resilience of 150k. When you factor in other effects like armor and damage reduction from talents your EH is higher but we are just looking at Resilience by itself here.
Looking at effective health over the full scale of resilience as shown below illustrates how the exponential returns of damage reduction and the diminishing returns of Resilience rating combine to cancel each other out and generate perfectly linear returns.
As you can see the effective health returns of resilience are perfectly linear, adding 100 Resilience rating will always increase your effective health by 1.235% relative to your displayed health.
Section 1E - The Full Scale of Resilience
This next graph brings it all together displaying both the scaling of damage reduction and effective health based on Resilience rating at level 90 in patch 5.4.
This graph should drive home once again that although the damage reduction you get from additional Resilience diminishes the more you get your effective health continues in a linear fashion anyway thanks to the increasing relative value of that damage reduction.
Section 1F - Resilience on Items
At this point you may be thinking "I want to get as much resilience as possible and become totally unkillable!" which sounds great, but unfortunately it is a bit impractical. Although there is no Resilience cap you are extremely limited in the amount of resilience you can get in game on current season items. Most fully geared players will have around 3375, which is what you get from the PVP trinket set bonus and the PVP meta gem. The lack of resilience on gear is not a big issue because currently a player with nothing but the baseline 72% reduction already has 357% effective health, which is more than most fully geared players had at the end of Cataclysm.
For those of you contemplating using a PVE trinket or two here are some facts to help you make your decision. The 2600 Resilience offered by the PVP trinket set bonus provides roughly 2.31% additional damage reduction from baseline, which is about 8.25% effective damage reduction after factoring in the value scaling. Furthermore the set bonus will always increase your effective health by 32.11% relative to displayed health, so if you are currently at baseline you would go from 357% EH to 389% EH.
Section 2 - PVP Power
PVP Power is a relatively new stat introduced to the game in Mists of Pandaria which acts as the offensive compliment to Resilience. The idea behind this new stat is to encourage players to use PVP gear in PVP by putting major PVP-only offensive gains onto PVP gear (or in the case of healers, healing gains). PVP Power increases all damage done to players (under all circumstances), and healing done (while outside PVE-instances), by a percentage that increases based on how much PVP Power rating you have. The amount of each bonus you get is also dependent on your class and spec.
-Healing specs receive 100% of the healing bonus but 0% of the damage bonus
-All other specs receive 100% of the damage bonus and a partial healing bonus depending on class.
-Damage specs for Druids, Monks, Paladins, Priests, and Shamans receive a 70% healing bonus.
-All other specializations and classes (including tanking) receive a 40% bonus to healing from PvP Power.
PVP Power is currently the primary differentiator between PVP gear and PVE gear. It is a "free" stat on PVP gear, meaning it is not factored into the item's stat budget. As a result when comparing PVP items to PVE items of the same item level all the general-purpose stats should be equivalent but the PVP gear will have PVP Power on it as well making it a better choice for PVP. This fact is particularly important due to the presence of item level limits in all instanced PVP. The item level limits change with each season, but their purpose is to limit the item level of PVE gear to be equal to or lower than the item level of the current season's PVP gear. These two factors together generally ensure that the current season's PVP gear is always the best gear for instanced PVP. However the item level limits do not function in the open world, so in world PVP a player in the latest heroic raiding gear will likely (and unfortunately) have a large gear advantage.
Section 2A - The Absolute vs Relative Returns of PVP Power
PVP Power's scaling is very straight forward; it has linear returns when looking at it in an absolute sense, adding 400 PVP Power will always give you another +1% damage or healing in PVP depending on your spec. So every additional point of PVP Power will increase your damage/healing by the same amount. However I have seen some players around the forums describing PVP Power as having diminishing returns, and they are correct to an extent.
If you evaluate the returns of PVP Power in a relative sense it does have diminishing returns, going from 0%-1% will give you the same absolute damage increase as going from 30-31%, but in the latter case that damage increase is smaller relative to the damage you are already doing. Virtually everything in the game operates the same way. Think about primary stats for example; +3000 strength would give a warrior a pretty nice bump in damage right now. However if Blizzard said "Hey we like you random warrior!" and bumped their strength up to 100,000 then that +3000 strength would suddenly be worth a lot less to them even though it would still increase their damage by the same amount. The reality is that in order for a stat to offer you consistent relative gains as you gear up the stat would need to have increasing absolute returns, in other words it would need to give you more and more damage or healing the more of it you got. (For more info on absolute vs relative valuation see Appendix A)
Now it is time to look at the actual scaling of PVP power, which is shown in the graph below.
As shown in this graph PVP Power's returns are perfectly linear. You gain either +1% damage or healing for every 400 PVP Power you have, this is also the “baseline” upon which the reduced healing bonuses for non-healing spec are based. The red line shows the healing bonus for hybrids (70% of baseline), and the yellow line shows the healing bonus for everyone else (40% of baseline).
Section 2B - PVP Power's Interaction with Resilience
The most common misconception that most players seem to have about PVP Power is that it acts as a kind of "Resilience Penetration" which counteracts the target's damage reduction 1 for 1, that is simply not true. PVP Power increases your damage by the percentage shown in your stat panel, it always increases it by that same amount regardless of how much damage reduction the target has. Your outgoing damage is calculated first, then the target's damage reduction mitigates that damage according to their stats.
Take for example a warrior who's swing always does 100 damage in PVE. This warrior gets a +50% damage increase from PVP Power in PVP, so that 100 damage get's increased to 150 damage in PVP. This warrior has now decided to attack a paladin that looked at him the wrong way. Lets say the paladin has +50% damage reduction; so when the warrior's 150 damage hits him it is reduced to down to 75. That is how PVP Power and Resilience interact, the outgoing damage is boosted up by PVP Power, then the total incoming damage is mitigated down by Resilience.
Section 3 - Gemming for PVP
One of the most popular questions I get is "What should I gem for?" Unfortunately I cannot provide a clear cut answer to that question. The answer is dependent on your gear level, class, spec, play style and more. My recommendation is to check how the pros of your class/spec are gemming, and then experiment to see what works best for your personal play style. However I will say that it is typically ineffective to gem PVP Power at level 90, gemming primary stats is generally more effective for damage or healing.
Choosing the best gem for survivability is significantly more complicated. Stamina gems will almost always provide you with more effective health, but Resilience gems don't lag too far behind in the effective health they add. Additionally Resilience gems scale up in value proportional to the amount of healing you receive because they increase the amount of effective health restored by that healing. For now I recommend gemming for resilience if you are looking to increase your survivability, but I will look at this topic in more depth in a future guide.
Section 4 - Closing Thoughts and Remarks
I hope that this guide has been illuminating for everyone that has taken the time to read it, I have tried to provide as much accurate and detailed information as possible about the way these stats work. If you have questions about these stats or about anything written here feel free to ask and I will do my best to get you an answer.
I error checked this guide many times however I am still human, so if you believe you see an error please let know and I will look into it. I also want to make it clear that although I am a member of Blizzard's Forum MVP program I am NOT a Blizzard employee and nothing in this guide is based on any kind of inside information. All the data in this guide was all generated based on direct in-game observation and calculations based on that observed data.
-This guide is written for level 90 players, the numbers are different at lower levels
-This guide just underwent a major update and revision, if you notice a typo please let me know!
-Some of the graph types from previous versions of the guide have been removed to reduce the complexity of the guide, but may return in the future.
Section 5 - Appendices
This is some additional information about some of the ideas, concepts, and data discussed in this guide. Additional appendices may be added over time as needed.
Appendix A - Valuation and Frame of Reference
Absolute valuation compares numbers based on addition and subtraction, IE going from 30% damage reduction to 60% damage reduction is an absolute gain of 30%. Relative valuation compares numbers using ratios, IE going from 30% damage reduction to 60% damage reduction is a relative gain of 100%. Why is this important? Because taking the example a step further, going from 60% to 90% is an absolute gain of 30%, exactly the same as before, but it is a relative gain of 50%, half as much as before. So if this trend were to continue, it would signify linear absolute returns but diminishing relative returns. This guide primarily uses absolute valuation because it is much easier to understand and work with when comparing a large number of data points to a common baseline.
Frame of reference is another critical concept for evaluating data, particularly when most of the data is in percentages. There are two basic methods that can be used to evaluate a string of data points; constant frame of reference, or progressive frame of reference. Constant frame of reference uses one common baseline value as a reference point, every data point is compared to that baseline. In contrast a progressive frame of reference compares each data point to the data point before it. Take for example this set of data points: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. On a graph using a constant frame of reference they would be displayed as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (all data points were compared to a baseline of 0). However on a graph using a progressive frame of reference they would be displayed as 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 (each data point was 1 larger than the number before it).
Using a constant frame of reference makes it much easier to evaluate the actual changes in the progression of a data set, where as using a relative frame of reference allows you to better evaluate changes in the rate of change over the progression of a data set. Since we are more interested in the actual changes than the rate of change when viewing the scaling of stats I chose to use a constant frame of reference for the graphs in this guide.
Appendix B - Formulas
The formula I use to calculate damage reduction from resilience in patch 5.4 is:
Reduction % = ((28900*0.72)+x)/(28900+x)
x represents resilience rating.
The formula I use to calculate damage increase from PVP is:
Damage increase % = x/400
x represents PVP Power rating
Posted FreshGG on 27 December 2012 - 01:29 PM
Posted Deeklol on 27 December 2012 - 08:05 AM
+rep if helped
Posted Toxile on 19 December 2012 - 03:46 PM
Posted methodman2 on 22 December 2012 - 12:26 PM
Posted Zerlog on 22 December 2012 - 03:51 AM
Posted gangstalicious on 22 December 2012 - 02:24 AM
Posted mimmick on 22 December 2012 - 02:17 AM
Posted Zerlog on 20 December 2012 - 10:45 AM
Posted Athlete on 19 December 2012 - 05:01 AM
-The games are too long,
-Objectives are fucking dumb,
-You(as a player) have very little control over the outcome of the game.
-I enjoy the combat aspect of the game. I like the fact that every time I outplay an opponent, it gets my team closer to victory. Rbg is just one big cluster fuck where the combat revolves around who does most damage, who heals most, who solar beam / vortex's more etc. It's closer to a pve fight.
using your brain for more than 30 seconds at a time must be difficult
Posted Snackumz on 11 December 2012 - 10:01 PM
Posted Snackumz on 08 December 2012 - 08:31 PM