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Member Since 16 Jan 2010
Offline Last Active Jun 20 2018 06:34 AM

#3152613 Vancleave

Posted by Vanguards on 29 March 2011 - 01:40 AM

shit ret pally gets carried by his teammates

shut up lopez
  • 1

#3130996 Will We Get Nerfed?

Posted by Vanguards on 18 March 2011 - 12:08 PM

ur survival / self heals is the only thing that needs to be looked at.

damage / control etc for rogues imo is where it should be at. low consistent damage, high on demand burst, extremely nice controls, decent mobility but not over the top yet. the only thing that throws this off is your insane survivability to anything but warriors
  • 5

#3087246 Really???

Posted by Vanguards on 24 February 2011 - 10:36 AM

all these changes basically make rets more tunnelable and more trainable.

  • 1

#3078179 Massivez 3 - 2967 Rank One 3v3 in the World

Posted by Vanguards on 20 February 2011 - 11:13 PM

the shit talk got old tbh. good video, but i can guarentee none of you would have the ballsack to shittalk the people even in-game. not saying you guys aren't playing well, but this comp is actually beyond retarded, and i think its the main reason behind the ego shown in the video

good to see beaner is doing well, although he seems a little tired. playing around 6pm i assume?

+rep / voted post up

is voted post up same as +rep nowadays?
  • 2

#3076243 Massivez 3 - 2967 Rank One 3v3 in the World

Posted by Vanguards on 20 February 2011 - 12:51 AM

my bop was boss

helped end an inevitable game a bit earlier saved me some time

nice vid :lol:
  • 1

#3060473 Vanguards 3 - Glad Ret BG9 Arenas 4.0.6

Posted by Vanguards on 12 February 2011 - 05:31 PM


This 24minute video was taken from clips I recorded on BG9 all in one day and on the first day the patch came out. Skype is included. We played roughly 60 games, grinded from 0 to 2650 rated (hopefully still pushing), and I tried to choose the best games out of the ones I found there. There were 3 comps played in this video: Ret Hunter Shaman, Ret Hunter Druid, and Ret Dk Druid.

I would like to thank my teammates:
Debao - Resto Shaman
Christhorman - Resto Druid
Seruuf - Hunter
Biotoxz - Death Knight

Mt Eden Dubstep - Still Alive
Heart of Courage (Long Version)
Pendulum - The Island Max NRG drum
The Flashbulb - Tomorrow Untrodden
Cerf - Mitiska Jaren - Light the Skies (Retrobyte Light the Sidechain Mix)
Lisa Misokovsky - Still Alive (Benny Benassi Mix)

The ques were extremely fast that day (under 2m
  • 1

#3060407 Vanguards 3 - Glad Ret BG9 Arenas 4.0.6

Posted by Vanguards on 12 February 2011 - 04:49 PM


This 24minute video was taken from clips I recorded on BG9 all in one day and on the first day the patch came out. Skype is included. We played roughly 60 games, grinded from 0 to 2650 rated (reached 2820 b4 team hopping again), and I tried to choose the best games out of the ones I found there. There were 3 comps played in this video: Ret Hunter Shaman, Ret Hunter Druid, and Ret Dk Druid.

I would like to thank my teammates:
Debao - Resto Shaman
Christhorman - Resto Druid
Seruuf - Hunter
Biotoxz - Death Knight

Mt Eden Dubstep - Still Alive
Heart of Courage (Long Version)
Pendulum - The Island Max NRG drum
The Flashbulb - Tomorrow Untrodden
Cerf - Mitiska Jaren - Light the Skies (Retrobyte Light the Sidechain Mix)
Lisa Misokovsky - Still Alive (Benny Benassi Mix)

The ques were extremely fast that day (under 2minutes mostly) and I had fun recording and playing them. I hope you will enjoy it too.

Side Note: Feel free to add skill point / favorite it if you like it
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#3014178 Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide (7.3)

Posted by Vanguards on 25 January 2011 - 03:00 AM

Half the time you are being kited/running to your target giving you a perfect chance to fear the pet or w/e, so your not losing any auto swings. macros like this just make the game even more boring than it already is for a ret atm. It's NOT going to win you the game, i don't even know why people take this shit so serious it's so sad it makes me feel sick.

Lets say ur on a target, and your partner goes "I need a fear for fel hunter so I can heal spam for another 10 seconds"

Without that macro u would go oh wait let me tab over to that felhutner first... dam tabbed to the warlock instead give me a few seconds

That macro plainly replaces ur turn evil keybinding, not making u lose any keybindings either so idk where ur logic applies. Not to mention everyone has their own preference. If you like to tab around and wait a few seconds before fearing pets or only have the option to fear pets when ur "being kited" then that's your preference.

Saying macros make u sick is just dumb.
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#2997816 Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide (7.3)

Posted by Vanguards on 19 January 2011 - 02:14 PM

Retribution Paladin Guide (7.3)

This guide is written mainly for players new to playing retribution in arena and PvP.





In the talent picture I selected talents that I use as default in arena. Talents should be changed every arena match depending on what composition you're playing, what you're up against, and what strategy you and your opponent might execute. Read below for a more detailed explanation on talent choices.

Level 15:
Highly Recommended: Final Verdict

This increases your Final Verdict damage by 20%. Currently the other 2 talents just don't beat out the damage you can gain from Final Verdict in a PvP scenario.

Level 30
Recommended: Zeal

Crusader strike is rarely used on CD in PvP, this makes Fires of Justice a bit more lackluster.

Rarely do Rets run out of globals for things to do in PvP, making the longer CD on Zeal not much of a problem allowing it to buff our Crusader Strike damage significantly without a big cost. Due to this, Zeal will almost always do more damage than the other talents on this tier other than extremely specific situations.

Greater Judgment is useful in fast games but keep in mind Crits have reduced effect in PvP. Over a long-game unless the other team was above 50% HP the entire game and you were getting kited a lot Zeal will be superior.


Level 45
Recommended: Fist of Justice

Logic here for Fist is very similar to WoD, the other 2 talents are mostly used if you want to strategize around them. Repentance is somewhat improved in the fact that it doesn't use the CD if you cast it on a Beast, but you'll require a lot of effort to land it especially on Druids. Blind is essentially the same as before, not very useful unless you want to rush a game.

Level 60
Recommended: Blade of Wrath or Divine Hammer

Blade of Wrath provides the best consistent damage and also good holy power generation. Crits are also 150% in PvP, making Virtue's Blade much worse than it would be in PvE.


Divine Hammer is used if you play in a composition where AOE damage is useful. It should be used against any teams that you believe will generally be stacked such as melee cleaves. As long as Divine Hammer can occasionally hit 2+ targets it will beat out Blade of Wrath in terms of overall damage.

Level 75
Recommended: Any

Justicar's Vengeance has a lot of synergy with Divine Purpose. Basically, you use it with the proc or when the target is stunned. This talent is excellent especially in 2v2, when you hit healers a lot during stuns.

Eye for an Eye should be picked against any kind of physical damage team that will focus you.

Word of Glory is an okay choice against DOT cleaves that has a no physical damage component to it. Generally used when the other 2 is useless due to taking Crusade and no physical damage taken.

Level 90
Recommended: Divine Intervention and Divine Steed

Divine Intervention is an increase to our survivability. Not having to press Bubble when we get low is like a large indirect increase to our health-pool pre-bubble. This is generally my default talent.

However, our Mobility is horrible, and having at least one talent to help it is nice. If you plan to for example, chase a Mistweaver Monk in 2v2 you should use the mobility talents instead. 

Level 100
Recommended: Divine Purpose or Crusade

Holy Wrath now does 35% of your missing HP as damage. This is still decent burst, but with the long CD mixed in Divine Purpose will almost always be superior outside of 2v2 Skirmishes or Duels. Crusade requires a ramp up time but is our highest damage burst talent in this tier. If you don't expect to get CC'd too much during your wings choose Crusade.


Artifact Traits

1. Wake of Ashes
2. Blade of Light
3-5. Righteous Blade x3
6. Unbreakable Will
7. Protector of the Ashen Blade
8. Ashes to Ashes
9-11. Deliver the Justice x3
12-14. Sharpened Edge x3
15-17. Deflection x3
18. Echo of the Highlord
19-21. Wrath of the Ashbringer x3
22-24. Highlord's Judgment x3
25-26. Embrace the Light x3
27. Divine Tempest
28. Healing Storm
29-32. Might of the Templar x3
33. Endless Resolve
34. Ashbringer's Light
35. Ferocity of the Silver Hand
36-39. Righteous Verdict
40. Blessing of the Ashbringer
41. Judge Unworthy
42. Wrath of the Ashbringer (4th point)
43-44. Might of the Templar and Righteous Blade (4th points)
45-etc. Any of the (4th points) until Concordance

PvP Talents


Similar to the earlier talent picture this shows talents I would default to in arena, but PvP is a situational game and talents are constantly switched. Read below for a more detailed explanation on PvP talents.


Tier 1
Largely preference and situational based, Gladiator's Medallion gives you the most control of when you want to be out of a CC. 

Adaption is nice for teams that has 5second+ CCs that your healer cannot dispel, adaption also has nice synergy with our artifact trinket. It is however a highly abusable talent by your opponents, make sure they're not a team that can cross CC your adapt to CC your healer easily.

Relentless is best for teams that constantly CC you over and over, I tend to use it against Sub Rogues if I don't need Gladiator's Medallion to trinket and get my healer out of a CC.

Tier 2
Reinforced Armor by default, Sparring when you fight physical melee teams.

Tier 3
Jurisdiction is the general default talent in arena. It's very difficult to use a 10yd range spell on healers you are not killing for CC.


Law and Order provides us with a much needed extra slow, this is the default talent in 1v1 or for open world fighting. 

Tier 4
Luminescence is an amazing talent, 20 yards is a huge radius for heals to be "cleaved". Holy Ritual is useful in double dps 2v2 or for solo play.

Tier 5
Blessing of Sanctuary is what makes Rets unique in arena in my opinion. Being able to get your partners out of CCs this often is definitely one of our strengths. When you do battlegrounds or just feel like you want to do more damage Vengeance Aura is preferred over Seraphim's Blessing.

Tier 6
Lawbringer is the highest DPS as long as you need to swap targets at all. This is what you'll be using the majority of the time.
Divine Punisher is generally bad.
Hammer of Reckoning has good synergy with Crusade especially against teams you need extra burst for. It adds 12 seconds to your wings when used with Crusade, allowing us to have 40seconds of Wings or even using "fake" wings to cause your opponents to pop CDs needlessly.

Viable Ret Comps

Legion allows much more diversity in general, you can be successful with many different comps. These are the best comps I have played this patch:
Ret | Hunter | Healer
Ret | Feral | Healer
Ret | Warlock | Healer

What rotation do you use in PvP?
There is no "specific" rotation in PvP.

This is a basic priority for doing maximum damage:
1. Virtue's Blade or Blade of Wrath to generate Holy Power
2. Crusader Strike / Zeal to generate Holy Power
3. Judgment (provides debuff that gives your holy power spenders with more damage)
4. Execution Sentence if talented
5. Templar's Verdict or Divine Storm to spend holy power.


If you're speccing Justicar's Vengeance keep in mind that JV does less damage in PvP than it would usually do. This is due to the spell templates in PvP, JV is nerfed in arenas and such meaning it does less than TV if the target is not stunned.


When to use Divine Storm?

If you're hitting at least 2 targets and you have the artifact traits Divine Storm will deal more overall damage and also provide a slight heal to your team. As long as it doesn't break CCs and your team can make use of the AoE damage, you will generally want to Divine Storm over Templar's when hitting 2+ targets. Divine Storm is also ranged so you can use it when getting kited.


You use JV when:
Target is Stunned
You have a Proc and you're missing a bit of HP
You really need the heal and you can't cast

You use TV when: (more damage than JV unless target is stunned)
Target is not stunned
You have a proc and you're not missing HP


What macros does Ret have for PvP?
Macros are largely preference. I use a lot of focus and party target macros. The goal is to be able to use your spells without changing your target.
Add #showtooltip to the start of these macros if you want to see it.
Some other general macros:
1.) Focus HOJ
/cast [target=focus] Hammer of Justice

2.) Focus Repent
/cast [target=focus] Repentance

3.) Focus Rebuke
/cast [target=focus] Rebuke

4.) Focus Judgment
/cast [target=focus] Judgment

The Support Macros I Personally Use:
(switch x with number or partyx with Toon Name)

5.) Blessing of Protection
/cast [target=partyX] Blessing of Protection

6.) Blessing of Freedom
/cast [target=partyX] Blessing of Freedom

7.) Word of Glory
/cast [target=partyX] Word of Glory

8.) Flash of Light
/cast [target=partyX] Flash of Light


9.) Blessing of Sanctuary

/cast [target=partyX] Blessing of Sanctuary

General Arena Tips
Ret is a hybrid melee, with a large role to supporting your teammates. We have good burst damage during wings, but outside of that we're a bit gimped. We have some off heals and good support, but we're also incredibly easy to CC as a melee class.
As a ret pally, you always have to remember you ARE NOT a warrior. You need to watch your partners the entire game. Do not waste your off heals, and blessings. In an arena match my eyes are on my party screen the most.

Blessings are stackable now, you can use Freedom and Protection on the same target without it overwriting each other.

Ret PvP Stream
http://twitch.tv/VanguardsTV - My (Vanguards) Twitch.TV Stream! Be sure to follow!

Ret PvP Page / Question Page

Ret PvP Video Guide
7.1 Patch: https://www.twitch.t...stv/v/110089594

Thanks for reading, I hope this helped you out. Post any other questions you have! If you have specific questions for me you can tweet it to me on twitter.

By Vanguards / Sam
http://twitch.tv/VanguardsTV - Stream (Follow to know when I'm live!)
http://twitter.com/VanguardsTV - Twitter
http://facebook.com/Samk920 - Facebook

http://youtube.com/SamK920 - YouTube Videos

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#2622589 The Future of Ret PvP

Posted by Vanguards on 16 September 2010 - 09:38 PM


My thread. Please take a look at it and post any constructive solutions you can think of!

EDIT: My thread below this message was deleted on the WOW forums for no given reasons. Though this thread obviously contains QQ (even though it's just what I feel are the problems for Ret) most of the thread were legit constructive possible solutions, especially after my initial post. Anyways, enough QQ about GC, here was my thread


Before you read, I have to say this starts as a QQ thread about the problems of ret on PTR. But how do solutions come without first knowing the problems?

And another note, PTR is not level 85. But HONESTLY, how much are we getting that isn't already there at level 80?


I've recently copied my fully geared Gladiator Ret Paladin to the PTR.

As one of the highest rated Ret Pally in the world in arenas, and a frequent PvPer in all aspects (BGs, and World PvP) I have to say I'm very disappointed in the current ret changes.

Any ret paladin who've tried the PTR undoubtedly feels the same way, not only did ret pallies not get any stronger compared to other classes who's getting bloodlust, cleanses on healers that originally didn't, ret pallies are getting much MUCH WEAKER than what they are now.

Many people say arena isn't everything, that's true. But I believe Arena is a decent representation of what is somewhat balanced, and currently in season 8, how many high rated ret pallies do you see? How many ret pallies are in Gladiator Range? The answer is most likely a single digit number. Can you imagine what it will be like if the PTR is released to live?

Yes, level 80 is not level 85. But what are we getting that's not already there? Is 5 levels really going to change that much?

Sure, ret pallies are strong in battlegrounds on live, but does that give you the right to make them completely near useless? In the current state in PTR we are nothing but a damage dealer that does around half the damage of most classes. Sure we can kick now, but how often can we catch up to a caster without cleanse?

Ret Pallies Current Strength / Weaknesses:
- High Burst Damage / Overall Damage
- Cleanse
- Very Nice off-healing
- Good Team Utility (freedom, BOP etc)
- Easy to Die / TRAINED
- Easily Kited
- No Interrupts
- Extremely Weak when facing a target being Healed (Little CCs for healers, No MS, No Kick etc)
- As Said, Little CCs. (vs cyclones, fears, etc)

Any Ret Player can agree that Ret on live is slightly underpowered, but you can still make it work through specific comps, and insane PvE gear to take advantage of our "burst" (this isn't a good thing but we'll leave this argument elsewhere). So the situation isn't hopeless, however...

Ret on PTR Strengths / Weaknesses:
- Interrupt
- Holy Power allows more controlled Burst at Specific Times
- More Ranged Damage (Exorcism)
- 45% Judgement Speed
- Team Utility that is Nerfed (No Divine Sac and Sacred Shield)
- Even LOWER survivability (No SS, No Heals)
- Horrible Offheals (Selfless Healer is lol)
- CCs are same as always
- Damage is LOW to HORRIBLE
- Even Easier to Kite
- No Cleanse

This only covers a bit of it, I'm sure someone can think of much much more problems.

So as ret paladin myself how does these changes make me feel? It makes hope that the 4.0 is not coming anytime soon, and that Cataclysm will not be coming. Yes, I love the worgens, I love the new quests, I love the ability to fly in Cataclysm. Contrary to most arena PvPers, I actually like Rated BGs as well. BUT What is all that if my class is broken? What is all this nice stuff for if my favorite and main spec is useless? We don't bring much to the team table anymore, we don't survive well, we don't do much damage. So what are we there for? To interrupt when we somehow catch up?

Are we going to be good at Arenas? Get trained and die? NO
Are we going to be good at Bgs? Hey it's a ret, let's kite it all day /lol. NO
Are we going to be good at World PvPing? NO
Are we good at duels? Other than dueling healers? NO

So.. where in the PvP Scene do we fit?

I hope there will be some changes made from blizzard in the right direction.

Some simple solutions I think would help a lot:

- Just give us cleanse back (Don't spriests still have this? Is it really wrong for a dps to cleanse? IMO this adds a unique feeling to Ret, I'm sure many people find playing Ret without cleanse to be a bit awkward) Cleanse added a unique feel to Ret as a whole for many people including myself.
- We NEED some sort of talents to bring our damage back, especially our burst damage. I.E: When your holy power is at 3, your crusader strike is 100% crit. This allows you to choose between immediately using templar's verdict or just bursting with crusader strike first.
- A whole new ability that deals damage. Divine storm is near unusable in PvP, literally there are times when Ret has nothing to do at times other than watching their target. I don't find it awesome to use holy wrath and consecration on single targets like a mage or juke casting exorcism just to lol. Not to mention even most of those have a high cool-down.

Please post any other solutions you think would help, I'm sure anything constructive things would be fine.

  • -1

#2358812 Ret PVP FAQ / Q&A

Posted by Vanguards on 02 July 2010 - 05:48 AM

Starting this thread since there seems to be many Ret Questions that are similar / the same. I can direct rets to this post now when I'm doing arenas/ raiding ^^

How's Ret PVP in Season 8?
In my opinion Ret PVP is doing okay this season. We are not OP as we were in Deadly / Furious, but it is Gladiator-able.

How far can Ret get in arena?
I'm currently one of the highest rated rets, and actually overall rated rank 1 player in the world on AJ. I do believe ret can even go further and is rank 1 viable but you have to be incredibly geared.

What seal do you use in PvP?
Seal of Righteousness is the general seal you should use. There are times you should switch to corruption, for example against double healers in arenas I switch to corruption. In 2s when I play with my resto shaman I switch to corruption against Warrior + Healers, and many other healer + dps comps.

What talents should you get for PvP?
I use 7/11/53 most of the time. This seems to be the most common Ret PVP Talents atm. You may want to put Righteous Vengeance elsewhere or put 1 point of vindication elsewhere at your own discretion. This depends on the comp and such that you are running. There is also the 19/52 or 20/51 build that some people uses for extra utility / survival at the cost of damage.

What glyphs should you get for PvP?
Glyph of Judgement and Glyph of Righteousness are 2 Major Glyphs that almost everyone uses. The third glyph is mostly personal preference. You can choose between Exorcism, Turn Evil, Salvation and Hammer of Justice Glyph depending on your tastes and what you're running with. Personally as Ret Hunter Shaman I use Salvation Glyph for more survival.

What comps are viable for Rets in arena?
I believe just about anything is "viable" to ratings such as 2.2kish. But if you're aiming to run the best builds these are the comps I recommend in the order I believe is the strongest (As you see I run what I believe is to be the strongest):

1.) Ret / Resto Shaman (What I Run)
2.) Ret / Disc Priest
3.) Ret / Rogue
4.) Ret / Warrior
4.) Ret / Hunter
4.) Ret / Mage

1.) Ret / Hunter / Shaman (What I Run)
2.) Ret / Hunter / Other Healers
3.) Ret / Disc Priest / Resto Shaman
3.) Ret / Rogue / Disc Priest
3.) Ret / Frost Mage / Disc Priest
4.) Ret / Rogue / Other Healers
4.) Ret / Warrior / Druid
4.) Ret / Dk / Druid

No Comment. 5s really just about anything works. I'm currently switching between Prot / Ret spec in 5s running Ret:Prot / Dk / Hunter / Resto Shaman / Disc Priest.

What professions do you use for PvP?
Doesn't really matter. The best is probably JC / Engineering, but as you can see if you armory me I use BS / JC.

How much resil should a Ret aim for?
Most people at high end ratings seem to aim for 1200+, but I currently have 1074. It's really personal preference IMO, and based on what comps you are running. In RHS I believe damage is more important than survival which is why I only have 1074 resil even though I get focused a lot.

What rotation do you use in PvP?
There is no rotation in PvP.

What macros does Ret have for PvP?
Most of Ret PvP Macros look like this:
/cast [target=party1] Cleanse.
You can basically fit in 1-4 for 1, and Cleanse with Sacrifice / Freedom / FOL / Sacred Shield and you'll have most of the Macros I have. I only have 1-2 for most of them, and 1-4 for cleanse for 5s. 1-4 for everything was a bit too overwhelming for me. (Not Enough Buttons + Too Crazy lol)
There are people who simplifies this by using mouseover macros and such, all personal preference.
Some other general macros:
1.) Start Attack + Crusader Strike
/cast Crusader Strike
2.) Start Attack + Divine Storm
/cast Divine Storm
3.) Focus HOJ
/cast [target=focus] Hammer of Justice
4.) Focus Repent
/cast [target=focus] Repentance
5.) Switching Between 2H and Shield
/equip [equipped:Shields] Your2HWeaponName
/equip [noequipped:Shields] your1HWeaponName
/equip [noequipped:Shields] YourShieldName
6.) Start Attack + SOR
/cast Shield of Righteousness
7.) Camera Distance *This is the Camera I use if u guys are interested.*
/console cameraDistanceMaxFactor 4
8.) Grounding Totem Killer
/cast righteous defense
/cast [target=arena1] righteous defense
/cast [target=arena2] righteous defense
/cast [target=arena3] righteous defense
As said with almost everything, Macros have a lot to do with personal preference. You can also use modifiers for different skills in your macros such as Repent. Use these only as a general guideline and form your own macros!

Should I use XXX weapon instead of XXXX?
My view of weapon for PvP in general:
Shadowmourne > Heroic LK Weapons > T2 > 277 PvE Weapons > Shadow's Edge > T1 > Bryntroll > Others

What trinkets should ret use for PvP?
Unless you're human use the ilvl264 Resil trinket for sure. Other than that this is how I rate the trinkets:
Heroic DC/DV > Heroic WFS > Heroic Abom > DC > WFS > Abom > Battlemaster's > Others
This is subject to how you gear and such as well, for example I have Shadowmourne and I prefer using Heroic Abom. If you're human, you would want DC+WFS combo for insane burst because they proc together so often.

How much gear do I need to arena?
When I stepped into the arena for the first time was with my sexy green and blue gear.

Do you recommend T10 Over Wrathful for PvP?
I would only for BGS and possibly double DPS 2s and strange comps.

Do you have any PvP Video Vanguards?
Yes, but it wasn't done well so I won't recommend it. Hofferland's videos are much more enjoyable than mine and I'm sure you can find others in the Video section of http://www.retpaladin.com.

Do you live stream?
Yes, but I do so at random timings mainly for friends. You can check http://www.arenajunkies.com and click streams to see if I'm streaming. I also post on the forums sometimes when I am.
These are some high rated Ret Players that stream occasionally:
Gladiator Vanguards 2800+ All Brackets Blust US:
Squueek 2700+ RHS and 2400 Ret Hunter Blust US: http://www.xfire.com..._video/squueek/
Gladiator Kadryel Blust US: http://www.xfire.com..._video/androff/

Post any other questions you have here!

edit: added some ret streams, added trinkets, changed wording on a few things, added macros and changed 3v3 a bit.
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