People play what what works and what they find fun, you arnt someone to judge what comps people should or shouldnt play.
I'll agree to the point where the comp is strong and baddiefriendly, but its not the "undefeatable r1 supermega dampening comp" you make it out to be. I dont mind facing this on my other toons, infact I rather face it than the overlords of rmd/turbo/godcomp
rofl you have to be shitting me
Let's put it this way, there's a 1-5 grading scale which determines comp's strength for Glad+ viability in game's meta ( at the time or now ).
5 : requires 3 Gladiator+ quality players to run, who need to have synergy together, need to have tactics sorted out on what to do versus certain compositions, et cetera et cetera. WoTLK RMP is a solid example of this grade, WoTLK MLD is there as well ( to everyone who doesn't agree - bitch fucking please, I don't think more than 5 MLD's got gladiator in EU in S8 ). There are no MoP or WoD comps that even approach this threshold.
4 : requires at least Glad quality players to run, some synergy is needed and some tactics are needed, but otherwise an easy sail for a title. Prime examples being stuff like S8 RLS, WoTLK/Cataclysm RPS, S8 WLD. I have no clue if I'd put any WoD comp here as well.
3 : straightforward stuff, requires decent players who just need a bit of practice together to get stuff rolling, but otherwise comp is so straightforward that no heavy thinking about it is required. Examples are stuff like S6/S9 TSG, S11 legendary RLS, WoD Junglecleave, WoD Turbocleave, WoD RMD, WoD Godcomp, etc.
2 : braindead stuff, aka doesn't require good players at all or anything special outside of players except a bit of awareness, tiny bit of practice and a pulse, stuff like S16 Nessper's RLD, S8 beastcleave and S11 ret rogue hunter are prime examples of this tier
1 : afk tier. Aka, it doesn't require out of you ANYTHING except rotating your basic pve rotation and following a ONE SENTENCE GUIDE. S3 rogue/disc priest/resto druid, TBC warlock/hunter/druid ( draincomp, aka get into arena, and spam viper sting/drain mana until enemy team is OOM ), S8 protret paladin/resto shaman/dics priest, S8 warrior/disc priest/holy paladin, S16 rogue/disc/holy.
Literally 99% of WoD comps are either #2 or #3, dumbing the game to #1 and exclaiming you're having fun is shitting in your own mouth. Although I guess I'd be having fun as well if I was as shit to actually have to play something from #1 or #2 to actually gain rating in WoD.
It's beyond my own fucking understanding how can someone REASON with himself in his own mind that this double healer rogue isn't worse 100x than facing a RMD/Godcomp/Turbo/Jungle. Those comps introduced the art of boredom in WoD, your shit is their shit amplified tenfold. You sit on a fucking healer and that's your entire strategy, win or lose, you could fucking have honorbuddy play your rogue and nobody would notice it wasn't a human. For all I know, you probably are doing so.
Can we please get rid of all the passive/spammable bullshit defensives
Conversion (not that anyone uses it but it's still retarded when it's good)
Glyphed Warlock Shield Wall (why do they need that shit on top of Soul Link?)
shapeshift 5% heal
also make blood presence/defensive stance more costly or weaker.
no one in wow could just sit in his job position and make the game dramatically better in any brief time period.
even if you take one of the better players like jahmilli there are certain things that would just get butchered.
think shamans last xpac. if it was up to him that class would have been deleted or at least severely nerfed
even your hyperbolic jahmilli caricature just made mop dramatically better in the briefest of time periods
giving each melee MS ... isn't going to homogenize anything
yup, just like giving every melee a kick didn't and giving every melee a stun didn't
giving everyone X results in homogenization of X, which results in X becoming massively undervalued compared to Y and Z which have not been shared out amongst everyone - when Y and Z are burst damage and sustained damage, which will never be shared out equally amongst everyone because pve game exDee, the bring the player not the class model falls flat on it's face
I like the point you've made regarding self healing affecting actual DPS, it's not exactly rocket science or unknown around here, but the amount of people who still don't understand ( WoW devs including ) which instant heals are bad are astounding.
The only healing abilities on DPS classes that can ( and must ) remain in the game are :
- Spriest flash heal
- Elemental Shaman healing surge ( enhancement shamans should just lose the ability to heal and gain a different niche )
- Boomkins should prolly have Regrowth and Rejuvenation, remove Healing Touch and any other passive/fire and forget healing they have
- Ferals keep Healing Touch, but remove everything else.
- Windwalkers can keep Surging Mist, remove healing on expel harm, chi wave and other crap ( it's not that they heal much at all or that windwalkers are a problem, but stuff like that really has no place in the game ) - a really easy fix that they can do is for example make chi wave friendly hits give a small temporary boost to speed, like move 10% faster when hit by friendly chi wave, there's numerous creative fixes to such spells
- Ret Paladins should keep the offhealing via Flash of Light tbh, they're such potent targets to train and kill that it doesn't matter if they can offheal, for now.
Everything else needs to be gone. Any Warrior self healing ? Gone. Hunters ? Gone. DKs ? Pet sac can stay, conversion = gone.
The only self healing as a DPS class ( outside of the list above ) I'd allow in arena would be arena food and bandages. Remaining 1v1 as Rogue vs Disc Priest used to be a game of bandaging and cannibalizing discs dead partner and constantly reopening and running on very low HP, for example. Both parties could win. Now ? Lolrecuperate, lolhealers doing shit damage.
Instant cast heals are fine ( Prayer of Mending, Renewing/Enveloping Mist, Renew, etc ) as long as they don't heal more than 1/3 of casted heals, also instant cast heals only became a problem once DPS classes got their ridiculous self healing, in MoP it took you 30+ seconds to kill a DPS class while the DPS class was keeping itself with numerous oh shit cooldowns and buttons, and then when healer would exit CC, he'd instantly bomb the target to full HP within 2 seconds, rofl.
- need to wait and see the situation @ full gear, this doesn't seem fun thus far
// full gear
- fuck this isn't fun at all, 10+ minute games, RMD, etc
- wow, this game feels fun again, who would've thought. Games end in 2-3 minutes, resto druids got nerfed, ferals and BMs hunters are retarded but nothing that few nerfs can't fix, healer diversity is becoming a thing, just nerf rogues and mages a bit and we're in for a very fun season
i don't want to sound stupid just because i play holy paladin but seriously do you still not understand how paladins only rely on the classes they are playing with? the current state of the game allows paladins to be a good healing class because they have CDs to counter stuff most of the time.
but mechanics wise, i'm always going to say it's the worst healer just for the way it has been designed since vanilla.
i already posted this in another thread, do you guys know what happened to paladins in 6.1?
execution sentence was put on par with holy prism; 15% damage reduction on word of glory -> DISPELLABLE CYA; you can afford not to denounce for 4 seconds longer as the stealing-crit buff lasts 12 secs instead of 8.
Holy shit holy paladins n1 healer?
why the hell don't you understand that this is all a result of the current meta game / 10% hotfix etc? (in my other post i thought paladins were going to be worse with the hotfix, but maybe i was actually wrong ! )
please open your eyes. paladins have had saved by the light and 30 sec forbearance since november when wod was launched. no one complained about it and people said it was the worst healer and druid was n1 etc etc.
before someone complains about "retarded execution sentence", please keep in mind that like jimjim said it heals like saving grace. it will heal a lot if it crits and you time it with trinket / wings. but that's NOTHING that holy prism wouldn't do.
holy prism with wings and trinkets can do 30k damage and heal aoe for 70k both of your partners, including yourself if you're nearby. that's 210k without counting multristrikes (assuming all 3 crit, which is rare though). you simply notice execution sentence more because it's focused healing on 1 target instead of aoe "constant" throughput (prism is 20 sec cd, and sentence is 1min). like i said sentence was only balanced so that it wasn't THAT BAD compared to prism, but some paladins ACTUALLY still pick prism, and i am fairly "convinced" that prism is better against a dot cleave, for example.
remember that EVERYONE has bigger crits on red buff now because EVERYONE got their trinkets buffed; paladins rely on 30 sec saved by the light, 30 sec forbearance etc. why do you think it's op now? because you don't kill within those 30 seconds anymore due to the 10% damage hotfix...so it feels like "oh god paladins always have something!!! nerf!!!!" this honestly isn't rocket science. i'd happily give up some of my stuff for cyclone, immunity to polymorph, and all the stuff druids have.
please don't say i'm biased or whatever because you can read all of this on patch notes, i'm not making up anything. ty
if a druid got 96% representation in 6.0
then 6.1 hits, no healer got buffed or nerfed, but all the dps specs got changed, cc got changed, items got changed, set bonuses got changed, dmg and dmg reductions inside pvp got changed overall
then the 1% paladin can become 96% representation and the druid can go down to 1%, even tho he got no buffs/nerfs, because this is a teamgame and you rely on the classes your spec can play with and you rely on the classes you meet.
all healers rely on the classes they play with, not only hpalas, just because you end your retarded mindless fuckery wall of text with "IM NOT BIASED" doesn't actually fucking mean that you are not biased.
how underdeveloped is your fucking brain? seriously
More surprised about the fact that hunters aren't top voted..
As much as hunter damage is stupidly high while being really hard to avoid, and trap mechanic is pretty idiot proof, hunters atleast die.
When you face turbo, there's nothing you can do unless they waste several cd's and interrupts. Turbocleave is so tanky, and all it has to do is play defensive, until the pure damage is enough to get the kill. You're just playing against a wall of defensive cd's, passives, offheals and interrupts, that delay any progress through the matches making it INCREDIBLY boring.
I do not like changes like this one (casted to non-casted), but in the same regard, Priests needed something like this to compete with other healers and to survive melee tunneling.
I see the problem, however, as a bigger picture. I believe that the real issue at hand is stacking melee interrupts and their immense control/damage combination.
The reason why Wrath was so successful, imho, was of course - no class homogenization. Warriors were kiteable, but had immense damage once they reached a target and had mediocre control. Now, in WoD, Warriors have all 3. They have Mass Spell Reflect, a 30s Kidney Shot, very short CD Bladestorm immunity, more uptime than before - all while maintaining their heavy pressure via strong, constant damage.
Before, a class brought one out of three (3 being an example, not the absolute cap for what a class brings) or even 2/3 of strong aspects for a PvP spec/class. Now though, it seems that most successful PvP classes & specs offer all 3. When you stack this melee with another, it causes a disruption in the balance. Healers have to resort to instant mechanics and CD-escapes as their only method of survival. In the past, healers would rely on juking (which was entirely possible) to top themselves or for their team-mates to peel for them. Currently, they can be peeled - but only for a short while until their gap closer is up again or their healer dispels them (all healers can, x2 dispel glyphs).
I do not know what the fix is, nor am I offering one.
I personally always love playing against melee/caster/healer comps, no matter what classes are plugged in there. The game is much more enjoyable that way, from my perspective.
In conclusion, this change for Priests was needed even though the mechanic isn't beneficial to the PvP game. While Druids are obviously still too strong, I think the real issue lies in melee stacking/having "too much" and no differentiations between classes.