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#21 Aesa

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 06:06 PM

Bobdeshepard said:

After playing on fulltilt, Ultimate Bet, pokerstars, and party poker, there really isn't much of a difference in the long run on which site you play on (other than UB being caught up in that scam), your experience may have been coincidental.

is there one you prefer and why?

#22 Perileyes

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:09 PM

I've been playing professionally for 5 years. I've made a very large amount of money playing but it was not all fun and games. I went through a 2 year period of hell. I still made good money during this time but I was miserable. All my friends tried to play and all of them ended up getting mentally crushed by the game. Only try to play professionally if you're going to take it very seriously. It's probably the hardest job you'll ever have. But if you can put in the time, keep your emotions in check and stick with it, yes, you can make insane amounts of money.

If you plan on just playing casually, I would advise playing at a small website. Websites like Party Poker and Full Tilt are loaded with pros. The small sites have pros too but they're generally a lot weaker. Make sure to take advantage of any sign up bonuses available to you. If you plan on playing a lot, find a rakeback deal on the net and that will give you a little extra cash each month.

As for how to actually play the game. It's always best to start out playing very tight. The best hands are much easier to play than the worst hands and you want to be making the easiest decisions possible. As you grow in experience, you should expand your hand selection. But this should be a very gradual process.

Poker is the ultimate challenge. Everything you learn that actually works for you, will later turn out to be incorrect in the grand scheme of things. When you change one aspect of your game, everything else changes with it. You need to constantly reinvent your game and continue to evolve and adapt to the metagame.

My best advice is: Play for fun or don't play at all. This game can destroy people in many ways.

#23 Bobdeshepard

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 10:55 PM

Aesa said:

is there one you prefer and why?
I play poker stars because my uncle plays there, and hes the one who got me into it. But also they have (imo) the best commercials, and my favorite user-interface.
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#24 Dahislol

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 12:56 AM

Pokerstars and Full Tilt probably have the toughest competition.  Smaller sites are easier but their software/security/customer service isn't usually as good.
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#25 paniczone

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 06:57 PM

Perileyes said:

It's probably the hardest job you'll ever have

You need a reality check buddy

I don't care who the fuck you are, playing CARDS will NEVER ammount to the stress half the (real) jobs out there give. Can you imagine being a doctor and having one of your patients die because you did something wrong? Being an engineer and having an entire city waiting on your bridge or building designs? Being a rocket scientist and being responsible for taking man off of our planet? Yeah but poker is pretty hard you're right.

#26 Zinadore

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 08:44 PM

paniczone said:

You need a reality check buddy

I don't care who the fuck you are, playing CARDS will NEVER ammount to the stress half the (real) jobs out there give. Can you imagine being a doctor and having one of your patients die because you did something wrong? Being an engineer and having an entire city waiting on your bridge or building designs? Being a rocket scientist and being responsible for taking man off of our planet? Yeah but poker is pretty hard you're right.

QFT

#27 Dahislol

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 03:35 PM

paniczone said:

You need a reality check buddy

I don't care who the fuck you are, playing CARDS will NEVER ammount to the stress half the (real) jobs out there give. Can you imagine being a doctor and having one of your patients die because you did something wrong? Being an engineer and having an entire city waiting on your bridge or building designs? Being a rocket scientist and being responsible for taking man off of our planet? Yeah but poker is pretty hard you're right.

The months I played poker professionally were probably the worst months of my life, and I have worked a number of stressful and important jobs.  It's not really that poker is MORE stressful than everything else, but it's stressful in a different way.

Anyone who plays poker for a decent period of time will eventually run into a number of situations where you have worse luck than you had ever imagined, for longer than you imagine possible.  You'll play the best poker of your life and lose 50 buy-ins because lady luck decides to shit on you and you can't ever win even when you're the 90% favorite.  These bad runs are statistically rare, but once you start putting in 40,000 hands a month then it's pretty inevitable that you'll find them.  

The depressing part of all this is just the feeling that you have absolutely zero control over whether you win or lose money when you're getting crushed this badly by statistics.  In every other job I have had or will ever have, my success is a direct result of my expertise and effort.  Most of the time poker is the same way, but when it's not you will want to become an alcoholic.

I am in no way trying to compare a human life to money, but this is the best analogy I can come up with to describe what I'm talking about:  

Imagine if you were a doctor, but even your most perfectly executed surgeries always had a very real chance of your patient getting struck by a fucking meteor midway through or shortly after.

The jobs you listed are certainly very stressful, but that particular kind of stress is one that drives me (and most people, I believe) to work hard and succeed.  The stress in poker makes you want to curl up in a little ball in your living room and drink yourself retarded.      

The suicide rate among professional poker players is astronomically high for a reason.      

TLDR poker sucks worse than you think.
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#28 Cheesié

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 03:38 PM

used to play PKR cuz gfx r sex

#29 Bloodriot

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:48 PM

Poker, a hard job, oh wow.

Maybe if you swap Poker with any of these, the statment would be true.

Cop
Fireman
Doctor/Surgeon/Paramedic
Anyone in the armed forces
Coast Guard/RNLI
Body Guard/some one involved in private security
Lumber-jack
etctec
Not to mention any dead end job  your stuck with and can't get out off.
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#30 Perileyes

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 12:22 AM

You guys are obviously just speculating and have never played poker professionally. You have no idea how hard it is. The game is extremely complex in ways that other jobs aren't. Engineers, doctors, policeman etc all know that if they apply what they've learned they will tend to get good results. These jobs all have tried and true, result achieving skills. They know what to do, and it works. Yes, things can go wrong but typically they don't and that's they they're qualified for the job.

The jobs you all mentioned pose unique challenges, but they're not dependent on luck. That's what makes poker very stressful. A Doctor doesn't go into work each day knowing that he's going to screw up tons of patients and have bad luck ruin his results for a prolonged period of time. In poker, you NEVER know what is going to happen when you sit down. You can be the best player in the world and lose every day for a month. Sooner or later, it happens to everyone. You can even lose money over several years. The nice thing about "real" jobs is you know you're going to be able to pay your bills and eat. In poker, if you don't bring home the cash you are fucked. You'll see what real stress is when you don't know if you're going to get to eat next month.

Not to mention, poker has all sorts of pitfalls that destroy people. I've seen people get addicted and lose everything and these were professional players. The stress is brutal and many of them start using crack and seriously screw up their lives. It's very hard to hold serious relationships and poker players often lose their good friends due to constantly being in a bad mood. And the worst part of it is, no'one can understand except that person. Like I said, you guys are speculating and what you said IS logical. It is intuitive to think being a doctor or a scientist is harder and more stressful but you don't see many people with those jobs killing themselves. Take a look at the poker community.

It really comes down to what you mean when you say "hard". When I say it, I mean that most people would get broken down regardless of whether or not they possessed the ability to do the job. That isn't nearly as common in "real" jobs.

I'm very pleased that Dahislol can back me up on this and he clearly knows what he's talking about.

I have been playing for 5 years. ALL of my friends thought they could do it too. They're all very smart and capable people and they ALL failed miserably at poker. Not because they couldn't understand the strategy or the mathematics. But because poker is too much to handle for most people. I have made a fortune playing poker and while I was pulling in more in week than most people make in a year, I was unhappier than I'd ever been. I even wondered what the point of me being alive was. The daily brutality, getting fucked over and over for years by complete amateurs is so hard to take. I lived in the penthouse suite at the most expensive building in my area. Everyone thought I had a charmed life. I lived with my best friends, we had fun every day and I had a cool job. I could buy anything I wanted and girls were drawn to me because they knew who I was. Everyhing seemed perfect but I was absolutely miserable.

So before you tell me that poker isn't a hard job, why don't you try it for yourself and you'll find out what you're really made of. I have made millions playing online poker and I'm 26 years old. I guess this is the part where you say you don't believe me, and that's fine. We're just strangers here anyway.

I do find this thread interesting and that's why I'm willing to reveal some things about myself. My life is a lot different now, I make a lot less money, I win about 90% of the time, I have a girlfriend I love and I'm going to be able to retire in a few years and do whatever I feel like doing. You guys talk so tough here, maybe you think you've earned it by getting high arena ratings. But if you want to talk about reality checks, why don't you sign up for online poker and then you'll get a big one. Probably all of you aren't capable of playing online poker for a living and I bet the majority of the doctor's, scientists, engineers etc can't do it either.

#31 Pyrilus

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 01:21 AM

This looks really interesting to get into.

#32 EMCL

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 01:33 AM

I'm interested, but is it really truly absolutely required to have a mentor when starting up? Can't simply study the books and practice yourself?

I know a few amateurs that make a few hundred a month, but no professionals.

#33 Turbohatch

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 02:46 AM

If you need coaching I can help. Send me a pm or whatever if you are interested about getting into it seriously.

#34 Dahislol

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 04:13 AM

Emcl said:

I'm interested, but is it really truly absolutely required to have a mentor when starting up? Can't simply study the books and practice yourself?

I know a few amateurs that make a few hundred a month, but no professionals.

You can do fairly well just being self-taught, but it will probably take longer.  Getting a coach is more of a jump-start than a necessity.

The 2+2 forums (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/) are a great resource, and they've also got some really good off-topic forums that I still read despite quitting the game a year ago.
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#35 Cheesié

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 01:34 PM

Isnt with pretty much everything if you have a coach you learn quicker?

#36 Vander

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 04:46 PM

Perileyes said:

You guys are obviously just speculating and have never played poker professionally. You have no idea how hard it is. The game is extremely complex in ways that other jobs aren't. Engineers, doctors, policeman etc all know that if they apply what they've learned they will tend to get good results. These jobs all have tried and true, result achieving skills. They know what to do, and it works. Yes, things can go wrong but typically they don't and that's they they're qualified for the job.

The jobs you all mentioned pose unique challenges, but they're not dependent on luck. That's what makes poker very stressful. A Doctor doesn't go into work each day knowing that he's going to screw up tons of patients and have bad luck ruin his results for a prolonged period of time. In poker, you NEVER know what is going to happen when you sit down. You can be the best player in the world and lose every day for a month. Sooner or later, it happens to everyone. You can even lose money over several years. The nice thing about "real" jobs is you know you're going to be able to pay your bills and eat. In poker, if you don't bring home the cash you are fucked. You'll see what real stress is when you don't know if you're going to get to eat next month.

Not to mention, poker has all sorts of pitfalls that destroy people. I've seen people get addicted and lose everything and these were professional players. The stress is brutal and many of them start using crack and seriously screw up their lives. It's very hard to hold serious relationships and poker players often lose their good friends due to constantly being in a bad mood. And the worst part of it is, no'one can understand except that person. Like I said, you guys are speculating and what you said IS logical. It is intuitive to think being a doctor or a scientist is harder and more stressful but you don't see many people with those jobs killing themselves. Take a look at the poker community.

It really comes down to what you mean when you say "hard". When I say it, I mean that most people would get broken down regardless of whether or not they possessed the ability to do the job. That isn't nearly as common in "real" jobs.

I'm very pleased that Dahislol can back me up on this and he clearly knows what he's talking about.

I have been playing for 5 years. ALL of my friends thought they could do it too. They're all very smart and capable people and they ALL failed miserably at poker. Not because they couldn't understand the strategy or the mathematics. But because poker is too much to handle for most people. I have made a fortune playing poker and while I was pulling in more in week than most people make in a year, I was unhappier than I'd ever been. I even wondered what the point of me being alive was. The daily brutality, getting fucked over and over for years by complete amateurs is so hard to take. I lived in the penthouse suite at the most expensive building in my area. Everyone thought I had a charmed life. I lived with my best friends, we had fun every day and I had a cool job. I could buy anything I wanted and girls were drawn to me because they knew who I was. Everyhing seemed perfect but I was absolutely miserable.

So before you tell me that poker isn't a hard job, why don't you try it for yourself and you'll find out what you're really made of. I have made millions playing online poker and I'm 26 years old. I guess this is the part where you say you don't believe me, and that's fine. We're just strangers here anyway.

I do find this thread interesting and that's why I'm willing to reveal some things about myself. My life is a lot different now, I make a lot less money, I win about 90% of the time, I have a girlfriend I love and I'm going to be able to retire in a few years and do whatever I feel like doing. You guys talk so tough here, maybe you think you've earned it by getting high arena ratings. But if you want to talk about reality checks, why don't you sign up for online poker and then you'll get a big one. Probably all of you aren't capable of playing online poker for a living and I bet the majority of the doctor's, scientists, engineers etc can't do it either.

cool story bro

#37 Axx

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 06:22 PM

I've basically lost all the money ive put into online poker

#38 Elraen

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 09:07 PM

I used to play very competitively and successfully at a few different sites.  When I first started, online poker was brand spanking new and there were tons of sites available, but Party Poker was the most popular.  I eventually went to PokerRoom because it was full of fish who were eager to just hand me their money.  I then floated around to a few smaller networks that were equally as soft as PR.  I stopped playing after the US and many US banks disallowed normal credit card deposits.  I play online casually these days and sometimes stop by the local riverboat.

More important than any other single factor related to being successful long-term in online poker, is maintaining and playing with your bankroll.  You WILL lose hands you were a huge favorite to win.  You'll bust out of tables.  You'll bust out of tournies.  Shit happens and you have to be prepared with enough money to suck those up and continue playing a profitable game at your limit, dropping down a limit or two if needed.
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#39 Bobdeshepard

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 10:48 PM

Axx said:

I've basically lost all the money ive put into online poker
youre really unlucky / did it wrong / are bad at poker or all three
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#40 Perileyes

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 05:09 AM

I didn't have a coach but if I did I would have a lot more money right now. Just grind the lowest stakes you can stand and gain experience that way. Always keep a large bankroll for the stakes y ou're playing, even if that means playing for $10. If you're truly capable of making big money in poker, you will be able to grind your way up. The biggest mistake you can make is jumping into it with $300 and losing it all your first day.




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