Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

BM change response (blog) - What do you think?


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#61 Gekkejager

Gekkejager
  • Junkies
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • EU-Azjol-Nerub
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 445
  • Talents: Affliction

Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:26 PM

It sounds reasonable, although I'm just wondering (maybe you wrote it but I didn't see it), would you want to let TBW break existing CCs on the hunter? Cause that would give them an extra pvp trinket every minute which could mess with DRs as well.

#62 KennyEU

KennyEU
  • Premium Junkies
  • Curse Premium
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • EU-Grim Batol
  • Misery
  • Posts: 2678
  • Talents: Marksmanship
  • LocationBelgium

Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:28 PM

Tbh, TBW already did break both fear and stuns. Furthermore, u could use it while any other CC was incoming. The breaking of all CC is something that's going to be implemented (planned atm) it is not something suggested by anyone here whatsoever.

#63 Aquos

Aquos
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 429
  • Talents: Brewmaster 0/0/1/2/1/1
  • RBG: 1139
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:38 PM

After seeing many of Levidian's absolutely retarded posts about Warlocks, I was kinda leery about this one, but after reading it it's a pretty good idea. GJ.
Posted Image

#64 zacharybishop

zacharybishop

Posted 16 September 2009 - 05:55 PM

pretty good ideas

#65

  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Moon Guard
  • Emberstorm
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/1/0/1/0
  • RBG: 1148

Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:05 PM

all great ideas

if you think pmr bitches about beastcleave wait till my comp gets popular its actually quite hilarious watchin a prot warrior lock down every cast from a mage while i get to kite a rogue all day while we both drop 3x the amount of damage they put out

its still early in the season tho

#66 Lolburn

Lolburn
  • Dusk
  • Trollclass_name
  • EU-Twisting Nether
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 1456
  • Talents:

Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:13 PM

Trikso said:

What people and Blizzard fail to notice, is the fact that we have constructive debates on Hunter forums, opposed to stuff like BUFF MY DAMAGE BY 20% CUZ MY CLASS IS WEAK/QQ THEY NERFED MY FACEROLLSPEC on other forums.
When we want to "buff"(read : change) something, we propose, many different ideas while we keep the impact on the game in mind. We consider a lot of factors and even propose nerfs/changes on our other abilities so we can get balanced properly.
Thanks that you are one of the few who step out of the forum debate and invest their time into typing such a huge wall of constructive text. Keep up the good work.

this is actually true

hunter community isnt as retarded as people might like to think

#67 Demetrious

Demetrious

Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:14 PM

Khanitus said:

all great ideas

if you think pmr bitches about beastcleave wait till my comp gets popular its actually quite hilarious watchin a prot warrior lock down every cast from a mage while i get to kite a rogue all day while we both drop 3x the amount of damage they put out

its still early in the season tho

I really want to try your comp, but I JUST leveled my sham to 80 to run beastcleave with Vec and starting the grind all over again would be pretty painful.

I've played against Draek and I know he's a good warrior, but is his PvE gear needed to play your comp, or would it work with a prot warrior using only PvP items?

#68

  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Moon Guard
  • Emberstorm
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/1/0/1/0
  • RBG: 1148

Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:16 PM

its all about the armor pen if warriors can get to like 350+ with a armor pen trinket it works im pretty sure

but a word of warning draek is a very angry person when lvl 1's bug him

#69 Demetrious

Demetrious

Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:18 PM

Khanitus said:

its all about the armor pen if warriors can get to like 350+ with a armor pen trinket it works im pretty sure

but a word of warning draek is a very angry person when lvl 1's bug him

Thanks.

I can't believe how ridiculously hard it is to create a Hunter comp that can do decently against both cleave and cloth/rogue.  Why couldn't Vec have rolled a better class =(

#70 Vec

Vec
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 269
  • Talents: Survival 2/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 1752

Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:36 PM

Demetrious said:

Thanks.

I can't believe how ridiculously hard it is to create a Hunter comp that can do decently against both cleave and cloth/rogue.  Why couldn't Vec have rolled a better class =(

rolled it almost 5 years ago can't quit now

#71 Bloodyrootz

Bloodyrootz

Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:58 PM

Khanitus said:

all great ideas

if you think pmr bitches about beastcleave wait till my comp gets popular its actually quite hilarious watchin a prot warrior lock down every cast from a mage while i get to kite a rogue all day while we both drop 3x the amount of damage they put out

its still early in the season tho

What is your 5s comp? I looked at the armory and I assume your shaman goes resto? Wtb people for that setup on my server lol.

#72 Elraen

Elraen
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Crushridge
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 2199
  • Talents: Unholy
  • RBG: 2028

Posted 17 September 2009 - 01:42 AM

Arkonis said:

Levidia is suggesting the hunter equivalent of making Shadowstep baseline for Rogues.

Sure it would be good for the class and all but it would be fucking retarded.

...except what he's suggesting is NOTHING like that.
-Aëon, the hunter formerly known as Elraen
-Formerly Sïn


"And rmp is fine it isn't even that amazing"

-Gladiator Mage

#73

  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Moon Guard
  • Emberstorm
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/1/0/1/0
  • RBG: 1148

Posted 17 September 2009 - 05:29 AM

Bloodyrootz said:

What is your 5s comp? I looked at the armory and I assume your shaman goes resto? Wtb people for that setup on my server lol.

We've ran a few comps

as 3 dps:
Re,t Surv, *1st-Boomkin/2nd-ProtWar/3rd-Destro, Disc, RShaman

as 4 dps:
Ret, MM, Shadow, Enhance, 2nd-Rdruid/4th-Hpally

*(most successful=1st, next successful=2nd...)

Vec said:

rolled it almost 5 years ago can't quit now


^this

#74 Affect

Affect
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 277
  • Talents:

Posted 17 September 2009 - 05:44 AM

don't really see how you would want to argue bm hunters need fixing/tuning, the class is mindless and requires little to no skill at all. don't get me started on beast cleave...gates open wolves popped..begin training target...when the target ends up in a decent position hit your big red key of doom that turns you into an unstoppable killing machine, if all fails you turtle play defensive until it's back up like 45 seconds later. what skill is honestly involved in this setup. nice fear/hoj? pro focus shock/grounding? it's a complete zerg comp that requires little to no synergy whatsoever. don't mean to rant but I ran into a front page beast cleave. kids were trinketing novas/air and little to no focus shocks, slamming grounding whenever it was up. terrible team, yet they manage front page.

#75

  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Moon Guard
  • Emberstorm
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/1/0/1/0
  • RBG: 1148

Posted 17 September 2009 - 05:55 AM

beast cleave is so last week...

African Turtle Cleave is in!

#76 Craton

Craton
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Hyjal
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 5298
  • Talents:

Posted 17 September 2009 - 06:12 AM

Parmesan said:

It funny Levida that people call you bias and w/e.  I think your one of the few people on this forum that actually posts constructive changes.  Most are just like Afflix and want his or her class to be godmode at all times.

He's probably on his last infraction before a permaban and thus on good behavior.

The community didn't one day wake up and decide to hate Levidian.  You can dig through old posts if you really want to relive that shit.

The OP itself is a knee-jerk reaction to a PTR change that starts by flaming RMP and proceeds to deem the entire spec doomed to fall off the face of the planet.  This is not constructive.

Beyond that and the rest of the doomsday talk the post had at least some reasonable discourse.

I do agree that a flat +10% dps increase is a stupid idea and will cause no shortage of balance issues.  That said, simply having the CD and duration of BW does not suddenly balance the ability.  

You fail to take into account the PvE ramifications to your change.  Even if you don't personally enjoy or participate in PvE, you may never simply ignore it to make your idea fit.  Well, I suppose you can, but you can also guarantee it'll never be implemented.  BM might not currently be the #1 dps spec, but slight changes have a way of shuffling everything.  

Additionally, it's entirely a misnomer to think that [halving cd/duration = balance] solely because the overall duration:cd ratio is the same.  Any fight where you'd need to burst hard at a particular moment (and of those there are no shortage) results in a nerf to PvE if the new duration doesn't fully eclipse that window.  Bare in mind I'm speaking from the perspective of current TBW to your idea of TBW.

A long way to repeat the point that there are ramifications you didn't consider.

Quote

32 second CD 9 second duration fully talented/glyphed.

That's a patently ridiculous figure.  You're proposing to be immune to all CD for 28% of every fight and DR'd as much as 47% of every fight.  Partner up with a defensive dispel and you can kiss ever being meaningfully CC'd out the door.

Has nothing been learned from the absurdity that is berserker rage against fear?  You're talking about reusing that, but having it apply to ALL cc.  Absolutely never will such a thing be balanced.
화이팅

#77 Levidian

Levidian
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Executus
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 9949
  • Talents:

Posted 17 September 2009 - 12:36 PM

Affect said:

don't really see how you would want to argue bm hunters need fixing/tuning, the class is mindless and requires little to no skill at all. don't get me started on beast cleave...gates open wolves popped..begin training target...when the target ends up in a decent position hit your big red key of doom that turns you into an unstoppable killing machine, if all fails you turtle play defensive until it's back up like 45 seconds later. what skill is honestly involved in this setup. nice fear/hoj? pro focus shock/grounding? it's a complete zerg comp that requires little to no synergy whatsoever. don't mean to rant but I ran into a front page beast cleave. kids were trinketing novas/air and little to no focus shocks, slamming grounding whenever it was up. terrible team, yet they manage front page.

You answered your own question retard.
Top 1000 user club: #562
Armchair Blogger - 04/20/2010
http://wowriot.gamer...Reality-Collide

#78 Levidian

Levidian
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Executus
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 9949
  • Talents:

Posted 17 September 2009 - 12:49 PM

Craton said:

He's probably on his last infraction before a permaban and thus on good behavior.
Na I've actually been perma banned before but that was just because slap was nerd raging because of "OFF TOPIC" shit that means nothing. AKA abusing his power. I did ask to only be able to post in hunter/news/bg forums though to lesson how much time on spend on AJ, which lead me to finding another forum to post on also :/

Quote

The community didn't one day wake up and decide to hate Levidian.  You can dig through old posts if you really want to relive that shit.
No they just encounted someone that expressed opinions w/o being worried about what some kids on an internet forum though and fused to ball hang people for no reason at all. People hate when others go against the grain especially when it upsets their perfect little world where they take turns sucking each others Ds. That is why.

Quote

The OP itself is a knee-jerk reaction to a PTR change that starts by flaming RMP and proceeds to deem the entire spec doomed to fall off the face of the planet.  This is not constructive.
I didn't flame RMP, I flamed blizzard reaction to RMP read slower next time if you have a hard time understanding. The point about BM falling off is it most definitely will be weaker in PVP and is already worse than SV/MM... ignore that tournament BS where a comp fights the exact same combo (RMP) every game. That is FAR from realistic.

Quote

Beyond that and the rest of the doomsday talk the post had at least some reasonable discourse.

I do agree that a flat +10% dps increase is a stupid idea and will cause no shortage of balance issues.  That said, simply having the CD and duration of BW does not suddenly balance the ability.  
Who said it did? I sure as hell didn't (again read slower ). I said it's a better course of action than the one they proposed it's definitely not perfect. What BM needs is something that can't be accomplished inside a 3.X patch.

Quote

You fail to take into account the PvE ramifications to your change.  Even if you don't personally enjoy or participate in PvE, you may never simply ignore it to make your idea fit.  Well, I suppose you can, but you can also guarantee it'll never be implemented.  BM might not currently be the #1 dps spec, but slight changes have a way of shuffling everything.  
My change would have likely been a nerf to PVE even if slightly as you wouldn't be able to take advantage of 20 second buffs with a 10 second BM timer and would have to shoot dry bestial wraths more often. So /shrug that's why I suggested the damage stack which would be where the PvE boost comes from w/o being as powerful as a raw damage modifier in PvP.

Quote

Additionally, it's entirely a misnomer to think that [halving cd/duration = balance] solely because the overall duration:cd ratio is the same.  Any fight where you'd need to burst hard at a particular moment (and of those there are no shortage) results in a nerf to PvE if the new duration doesn't fully eclipse that window.  Bare in mind I'm speaking from the perspective of current TBW to your idea of TBW.
Once again where did I say it was perfectly balanced? You can't make the changes BM needs w/o a complete overhaul of the tree. I could sit down and tear the tree apart and draw something up but that isn't worth my time(the only time I could even possibly be worth it is during an expansion beta)

Quote

A long way to repeat the point that there are ramifications you didn't consider.
Or there are ramifications that I considered that can't be acted on in the scope/time frame/patch we're facing.

Quote

That's a patently ridiculous figure.  You're proposing to be immune to all CD for 28% of every fight and DR'd as much as 47% of every fight.  Partner up with a defensive dispel and you can kiss ever being meaningfully CC'd out the door.
Did I say the figures were perfect or set exactly how they should be? An 8 second duration and a 45 second CD might be more in line for example(fully talented/glyphed). I've explained how things aren't supposed to be taken as absolutes many times before and that suggestions are starting points for brainstorming as they express an idea.

Quote

Has nothing been learned from the absurdity that is berserker rage against fear?  You're talking about reusing that, but having it apply to ALL cc.  Absolutely never will such a thing be balanced.
Warriors are much more effective and have much higher survivability that a BM hunter does with wrath down. You could argue that that change would make BM a more offensive oriented ranged warrior where the scale tips farther on each end of the spectrum. It's definitely not ideal but it's better than what we have now which is a long (arguably 18 seconds is long) period of god mode and then an even longer period of mediocrity. Once again the BM tree would be quit a bit different and more utility(than burst CD) driven if I hand a sandbox to play in.
Top 1000 user club: #562
Armchair Blogger - 04/20/2010
http://wowriot.gamer...Reality-Collide

#79 rookiie

rookiie
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 178
  • Talents: Beast Mastery

Posted 17 September 2009 - 01:03 PM

Affect said:

don't really see how you would want to argue bm hunters need fixing/tuning, the class is mindless and requires little to no skill at all. don't get me started on beast cleave...gates open wolves popped..begin training target...when the target ends up in a decent position hit your big red key of doom that turns you into an unstoppable killing machine, if all fails you turtle play defensive until it's back up like 45 seconds later. what skill is honestly involved in this setup. nice fear/hoj? pro focus shock/grounding? it's a complete zerg comp that requires little to no synergy whatsoever. don't mean to rant but I ran into a front page beast cleave. kids were trinketing novas/air and little to no focus shocks, slamming grounding whenever it was up. terrible team, yet they manage front page.

  If u want them to get off the front page then u prob should read Levidian's posts and suggest what u think would make the spec non retard freindly.

  Every non BM hunter also has to suffer against BM hunters too, specially with clothie partners, and just cuz its a hunter spec doesnt mean hunters wanna keep it brainless, matter of fact hunters were always asking for nerfs/tunes to specs they thought op (BM start of s5/ survival late s5).

  Plus u gotta give Lev credit hes here trying to fix the only hunter spec thats able to succeed in arena on par with all the other viable comps, i was just reading the DK forums loling at the 80% of DKs crying bout chains of ice being fine, even one that said NO /THREAD, HUNTERS CAN DISENGAGE MAGES CAN BLINK.

#80 Levidian

Levidian
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Executus
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 9949
  • Talents:

Posted 17 September 2009 - 02:13 PM

rookiie said:

If u want them to get off the front page then u prob should read Levidian's posts and suggest what u think would make the spec non retard freindly.

  Every non BM hunter also has to suffer against BM hunters too, specially with clothie partners, and just cuz its a hunter spec doesnt mean hunters wanna keep it brainless, matter of fact hunters were always asking for nerfs/tunes to specs they thought op (BM start of s5/ survival late s5).

  Plus u gotta give Lev credit hes here trying to fix the only hunter spec thats able to succeed in arena on par with all the other viable comps, i was just reading the DK forums loling at the 80% of DKs crying bout chains of ice being fine, even one that said NO /THREAD, HUNTERS CAN DISENGAGE MAGES CAN BLINK.

BM is actually one of our worst specs right now and really only works well in beastcleave. Most non BM hunter teams straight farm BM hunter teams. It is broken though and is faceroll my suggestion was aimed at making it a little less all-eggs-in-one-basket-all-or-nothing cleave by dropping the BWrath duration/CD so you have it available more often but each time it doesn't last as long as you can plan switches etc around it.
Top 1000 user club: #562
Armchair Blogger - 04/20/2010
http://wowriot.gamer...Reality-Collide




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<