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BM change response (blog) - What do you think?


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#21 Levidian

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:38 PM

Huggerz said:

Semi-mixed feelings towards this.

On the one hand, it's a shame that instead of reworking the BM tree into something respectable, blizzard approaches this with the question, "How can we neuter beastcleave?"

On the other hand, with the spec's current state, I admittedly would be happier to not see any BM hunters in arena :/.

Lol

Yea I know what you're saying, dropping the duration/CD at least forces BM to make more conscious decisions about when they're going to use their ability as it's less powerful each time it's used.
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#22 Tammyaway

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:45 PM

rookiie said:

I remember in the start of WOTLK when i read about 40 posts from rogues that were like : "we suck in pve, we deserve to be OP in pvp"

and mages: "so what if we one shot stuff? rets DK's and rogues just use immunities and rape us its ridiculous, remove the magic resistance shit"

Then hunters in s5: " please blizz remove viper sting its over the top to drain so much mana while doing nice dmg, we understand u, TNT needs to be removed! explosive shot needs to be nerfed.

And even in s6 when hunters went bk to their usual pathetic state of last in arena they were sitting there eating shit still fighting in arena with mouths shut. I heard more complaints from other classes asking for hunter buffs than from hunters themselves.


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#23 Levidian

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:48 PM

Tammyaway said:


:D
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#24 Futon

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:48 PM

I don't understand why there is so much bias against BM hunters. Honestly why are there so many BM haters? Even other hunters hate BM. I don't get it.

Back to the topic at hand. Levidian you always do a good job with your suggestions, i like it a lot. Your chaimara fix is a good one as well. I hate how much work goes into doing good dps as marks. I enjoy playing my beast spec as double dps in 2's. And my 3's doesn't have a dispell so i think BM is best. But whatever, hate the BM hunter more. T.t

#25 Tammyaway

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:49 PM

The 5/5 stacking for PvE is not necessary, the only reason they added the extra passive 10% dmg is to KEEP PvE dps the SAME as it is now on live. With BW duration nearly halved and the c/d remaining 1min10secs, you lose 8 seconds of 10% damage bonus and also 8 seconds of PET doing 50% more dmg. This is why they gave the hunter a passive 10% dmg increase to cancel out this loss (in effect blizzard's suggested change is a 1.5% dps increase for BM hunters, close enough).

If you halve the duration and halve the c/d, BM won't lose a significant amount of dps (it will lose a little bit, especially if you use a trinket such as wrathstone with it).

#26 Dropout

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 08:49 PM

You seem to like writing, so you should probably learn the difference between "it's" and "its". Somewhere in the first couple sentences you confused the two.

Good post though.
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#27 Futon

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:02 PM

Dropout said:

You seem to like writing, so you should probably learn the difference between "it's" and "its". Somewhere in the first couple sentences you confused the two.

Good post though.

GRAMMAR POLICE IN THE HOUSE!!!  Seriously, do you just troll to correct people? Your life must be very empty.

#28 Levidian

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 01:04 PM

Dropout said:

You seem to like writing, so you should probably learn the difference between "it's" and "its". Somewhere in the first couple sentences you confused the two.

Good post though.

You don't think I know the difference? I type fast and sometimes things get missed. The first two uses of "its" were correct and I my fingers were just used to typing the conjunction.
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#29 Levidian

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 01:08 PM

Tammyaway said:

The 5/5 stacking for PvE is not necessary, the only reason they added the extra passive 10% dmg is to KEEP PvE dps the SAME as it is now on live. With BW duration nearly halved and the c/d remaining 1min10secs, you lose 8 seconds of 10% damage bonus and also 8 seconds of PET doing 50% more dmg. This is why they gave the hunter a passive 10% dmg increase to cancel out this loss (in effect blizzard's suggested change is a 1.5% dps increase for BM hunters, close enough).

If you halve the duration and halve the c/d, BM won't lose a significant amount of dps (it will lose a little bit, especially if you use a trinket such as wrathstone with it).

I guess I assumed the 10% passive would out weight the Wrath up time reduction. I'm surprised it's that close once you run the numbers.

BM does need a PvE dps boost also so :/
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#30 Tammyaway

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 01:16 PM

Levidian said:

I guess I assumed the 10% passive would out weight the Wrath up time reduction. I'm surprised it's that close once you run the numbers.

BM does need a PvE dps boost also so :/

I agree, but blizzard apparently don't :(

When BM was doing high dps in raids they nerfed it quickly enough, now after they admitted it is doing too low dps they are not buffing it for some reason.

#31 Levidian

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 02:40 PM

Tammyaway said:

I agree, but blizzard apparently don't :(

When BM was doing high dps in raids they nerfed it quickly enough, now after they admitted it is doing too low dps they are not buffing it for some reason.

That's because from a customer relations standpoint nerfing hunters raises their approval ratings at an extremely disproportionate amount compared to buffing hunters.


Hunter buff = god blizard fucking blows im quitting this game(from community)
Hunter nerf = looks like they're at least trying to balance the game (from community)

In other words on the meter of "how well blizzard is doing from -10 to +10 a hunter nerf is a +10 and a hunter buff is a -5 so it's hard to make hunters balanced when you have to nerf twice for each buff.

This is why we see shit like flare getting nerfed on 4 different occasions and random shit like kill shot min range being removed.



LOL WUT



It does kind of make sense though in a fucked up twisted conspiracy theory way.
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#32 fant0m8

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 11:09 AM

32-35 second cooldown w/ 9 second duration is a little short (CD wise) for my tastes. That's only 20-25 second windows that a BM Hunter is snare-able.

I think a 30-35 *downtime* window is more fair. That or a 20-25 second downtime window and a 4-6 second duration (immune to disarm if this happens).

I think it would be much more fun to be BM if you had a 5 second duration TBW and a much shorter cooldown. You could use it in the same manner that other specs use their signature shots, for short burst windows.
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#33 Plops aka pewpewlazers

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 11:49 AM

Once again I called Blizzard out on their unintuitive, half-assed, "let's just change numbers, copy->paste, or delete code rather than design new stuff" solutions.  All I saw when I read about the change to BM was another Roar of Sacrifice blunder in the making.

Personally, I dislike BM's elementary playstyle as much as anyone, so I have no problem with Blizzard's upcoming balancing blunder leaving the spec as non-viable at competitive rankings (if it does, which I still believe it will).  However, I disliked the idea of blizzard's bad coding screwing over the best spec for my comp currently (imo), so I just had to call them out on it.

I was thinking of pulling some punches in doing so.  Even reading over my post, I figured I would end up eating a temp ban.  However, I also knew I was vacationing in California for 6 days, so I really didn't mind getting temp banned.

Unfortunately, GC nailed me with a 10 day ban lol.  That was something I didn't expect.  The next may be permanent, but meh, the public forums are a cesspool anyway, and 90% of my posts are just trolls there these days due to the lack of any intelligent arena discussions.

Regardless, here's the post for anyone interested: http://forums.worldo...820542960&sid=1


ok, I'm off to go deep sea fishing for the first time.  Later bros!:)

#34 Alabasta

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:30 PM

The reason Blizzard is nerfing comps who beat RMP is not CAUSE they do it, but more HOW they do it.

Quote

Ryan says:

brb pirates

#35 Blowi

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:31 PM

Alabasta said:

The reason Blizzard is nerfing comps who beat RMP is not CAUSE they do it, but more HOW they do it.

.

#36 Granter

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:32 PM

Well hopefully this wont be the only change in the next patch.

Blue post

Shamans and Cleansing Totems
It's overpowered. Long-term we need some kind of overhaul to the dispel system so that you can free allies who get debuffed or CC'd but you aren't constantly losing important class abilities because of cheap, fast and sometimes pulsing dispels.

I'm being vague because we haven't announced any 3.2.2 or 3.3 changes yet. Those won't be the overhaul I described, but we hope to do something.

#37 Levidian

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 03:51 PM

fant0m8 said:

32-35 second cooldown w/ 9 second duration is a little short (CD wise) for my tastes. That's only 20-25 second windows that a BM Hunter is snare-able.

I think a 30-35 *downtime* window is more fair. That or a 20-25 second downtime window and a 4-6 second duration (immune to disarm if this happens).

I think it would be much more fun to be BM if you had a 5 second duration TBW and a much shorter cooldown. You could use it in the same manner that other specs use their signature shots, for short burst windows.

something like that is plausible i never claim what my initial suggestion is perfect. It's the ideals behind the suggestions that are important. The bolded part of your quote would be another possible solution.
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#38 Levidian

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 03:57 PM

Plops I read our post(s), entertaining and hilariously truthful at the same time.
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#39 denialz

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 04:05 PM

Parmesan said:

It funny Levida that people call you bias and w/e.  I think your one of the few people on this forum that actually posts constructive changes.  Most are just like Afflix and want his or her class to be godmode at all times.

mages have never been godmode~

#40 12shadow12

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 04:15 PM

What ever happened to trap launcher?
Why doesn't blizzard just implement for 3.2.2?
It would solve all of my problems
I hate using freezing arrow and the healer moves and its a waste of a trap
Or blizzard needs to make Scatter shot trainable, like a 2 sec Scatter Shot and if you talent it, it becomes a 4 second or something




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