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Spell Penetration for Season 8.


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#21 Aluraud

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 10:59 AM

By gemming with sp/penn gems you are essentially trading away spell power for some extra haste. Since the gains are not huge (essentially, the blue socket bonuses) I don't see this as being worth it.
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#22 hertzuk

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 10:59 AM

socket bonuses are overrated
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#23 Beertje

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 11:25 AM

If you are really concerned about maxing your stats, you should never use a 25 spellpenetration gem in your gear as long as you have 23 spellpower gems elsewhere. Replacing one of each for 12 spellpower/13 spellpenetration gems will give you 1 more of both stats.
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#24 zUkUu

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:59 PM

^wrong

1x 23 Spelldmg in red
and 1x12dmg/13pene is more dmg than 1x 23 dmg and 1x25 penetration.

dmg/x into all blue. thats fore sure. u can either sacrifice crit or stamina for penetration to stack maximum damage. imo stamina isn't as good as crit. I'd rather crit something down than living with 100 hp more :X

despite of that 2x 13 = 26. so u "lose" one penetration if u socket 1x 25 :3.

so far
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:warlock: Destruction Duel Guide 2 by zUkUu
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#25 Vas

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:54 PM

x4 Blue slots

1H Weapon
Leggs
Gloves
Belt


x4 Spell power + 13 pene = 48spell power & 52 pene

x4 blue slots = 22 spell power (bonus) +5+5+5+7

48 spellpower + 22 spellpower = 70 spell power

if you didnt take ANY blue gems n went 23 spell power in all 4...

23+23+23+23 = 92 spell power

so 22 spell power or 52pene (or stamina) for stats id say tanking 23's in blue slot maybe not such a great idea :cool:

anyone thought about the haste cloak enchant into the mix?


no idea what i will do:confused:

EDIT. had alittle look, looks probs best too me to go:
2x 12/13s + 1 25 pen + 1 43 pen + cloak (JC req)

drop 40 spellpower gain 53haste offhand & 28haste wand

81haste increase sounds tight to me, you add the weapon ontop you got 129haste

add my current haste (518spellstone) thats 647haste 3136 spell power (felarmor) 2711 w/o

those stats are insane!

(stats includes x4 furious x1 WG legs, every offset piece relentless + S7 WEP+OFFHAND+WAND)

IF YOU CHANGE THE X4 FURIOUS FOR X4 RELENTLESS or even X5 RELENTLESS, that even more spellpower but that would mean full gear lol =) *we awhile off that yet*


-
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#26 Calex

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 02:19 PM

http://www.wowhead.c...rofile=14128711

Try this configuration.
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#27 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:03 PM

u forogt for engi / tailoring

pene offhand + 5x 12dmg/13penetration = 132. [4x blue + 1x belt, prismatic]

thats what i go for.

so far
zUkUu


Except for since a prismatic should always be used for an offensive stat (since we are trying to maximize offensive potential)

Pretty sure my option 2 is built itemized better offensively and only has 1 additional Spell penetration
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#28 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:05 PM

^wrong

1x 23 Spelldmg in red
and 1x12dmg/13pene is more dmg than 1x 23 dmg and 1x25 penetration.

dmg/x into all blue. thats fore sure. u can either sacrifice crit or stamina for penetration to stack maximum damage. imo stamina isn't as good as crit. I'd rather crit something down than living with 100 hp more :X

despite of that 2x 13 = 26. so u "lose" one penetration if u socket 1x 25 :3.

so far
zUkUu


Lol you said the exact same thing as him. think you misunderstood.
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#29 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:08 PM

By gemming with sp/penn gems you are essentially trading away spell power for some extra haste. Since the gains are not huge (essentially, the blue socket bonuses) I don't see this as being worth it.


If you feel that way then that's fine.

The blue socket bonuses on all of my gear are all spell damage (with the WG pants being the best bonus). I find that it's worth attempting to theorycraft the best combination of gems to hit the socket bonuses.

Regardless if you do not like socket bonuses, feel free to gem full +23 sp. Neither are absolute requirements and both are viable.
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#30 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:15 PM

x4 Blue slots

1H Weapon
Leggs
Gloves
Belt


x4 Spell power + 13 pene = 48spell power & 52 pene

x4 blue slots = 22 spell power (bonus) +5+5+5+7

48 spellpower + 22 spellpower = 70 spell power

if you didnt take ANY blue gems n went 23 spell power in all 4...

23+23+23+23 = 92 spell power

so 22 spell power or 52pene (or stamina) for stats id say tanking 23's in blue slot maybe not such a great idea :cool:

anyone thought about the haste cloak enchant into the mix?


no idea what i will do:confused:

EDIT. had alittle look, looks probs best too me to go:
2x 12/13s + 1 25 pen + 1 43 pen + cloak (JC req)

drop 40 spellpower gain 53haste offhand & 28haste wand

81haste increase sounds tight to me, you add the weapon ontop you got 129haste

add my current haste (518spellstone) thats 647haste 3136 spell power (felarmor) 2711 w/o

those stats are insane!

(stats includes x4 furious x1 WG legs, every offset piece relentless + S7 WEP+OFFHAND+WAND)

IF YOU CHANGE THE X4 FURIOUS FOR X4 RELENTLESS or even X5 RELENTLESS, that even more spellpower but that would mean full gear lol =) *we awhile off that yet*


-


The haste cloak enchant is usually not preferred because it's itemized very poorly. 23 haste itemization points nets you about 28.75 Spell penetration, which means that the cloak penetration enchant is miles ahead of the haste one.

But yeah haste Offhand/wand pieces are pretty sexy this season. Half of the reason why i wrote this
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#31 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:22 PM

http://www.wowhead.c...rofile=14128711

Try this configuration.


Ok that's just... are you kidding?

Spamming eye of zuls sp gems is an awful combination of breaking socket bonuses for not that great of an offensive gain (you gain haste from offhand).

You could have gone +12sp/+13 pen gems into all the red sockets and picked up every single socket bonus.

Still wouldn't suggest this
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#32 Aluraud

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:35 PM

If you feel that way then that's fine.

The blue socket bonuses on all of my gear are all spell damage (with the WG pants being the best bonus). I find that it's worth attempting to theorycraft the best combination of gems to hit the socket bonuses.

Regardless if you do not like socket bonuses, feel free to gem full +23 sp. Neither are absolute requirements and both are viable.


It isn't a matter of liking or disliking socket bonuses. I just wanted to point out that you are trying to maximize your overall stats rather than maximze a single stat. I'm writing this from my iPhone so I can't do the math, but the question comes down to "are you ok with giving up x amount of spell power to gain y amount of haste/crit."
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#33 Malacothdai

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:51 PM

Engineers who have access to the +27 sp cloak enchant(me) or tailors with theirs:
1) 4x +25 pen gems in 4 blue sockets(100) + wand(35) = 135 spell pen.


12/13 in 8 gems gains 4 spell power & 4 pen over going 25x4 & 23x4.

2 options:

1) 12/13 x8

2) 12/13 x7, 23 x1


12/13 x8 = 139 pen (with wand) & 96 dmg

12/13 x7 + 23 x1 = 126 pen (with wand) & 107 dmg


TLDR: 12/13 x7 & 23 x1 to max stats for engineers/tailors going staff.
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#34 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:00 PM

I guess i phrased that wrong.

I'll try to do the math myself

3 red sockets 3 yellow sockets 4 blue sockets 1 prismatic

Assuming you are going to break every single item bonus and want to neglect chaotic skyflare diamond meta requirements (see: you aren't destro) meaning you would get the cloak, the back, and the offhand (just an example).

Without bonuses:

11x23= 253 spell power
137 penetration

With bonuses:
+8 resil from helm bonus

Assuming you gem in a more balanced variety of gems and using option number 2) with +12 +13's in yellows and +12/13 and +25s in blues, you would get 4 +23 sp, 3 +12 sp/ +13 haste and 3 +12/13pen + 1 +25pen + wand(35) + the benefits of getting haste on the offhand instead of spell pen

Without bonuses you get:
12*8 + 23*4 = 165 sp
134 penetration
36+53 = 89 haste

Adding socket bonuses you get:
165+5+5+7+5= 187 sp;
134 penetration
8+4 = 12 resil
9+6 = 15 stam
89 haste

Just by consolidating haste into sp through a 20:23 conversion rate, you get 102.35 spell damage through haste.

102.35 + 187 = 289.35 spell power in the form of offensive itemization stats.

Please correct me if i'm wrong on my math somewhere though.
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#35 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:01 PM

12/13 in 8 gems gains 4 spell power & 4 pen over going 25x4 & 23x4.

2 options:

1) 12/13 x8

2) 12/13 x7, 23 x1


12/13 x8 = 139 pen (with wand) & 96 dmg

12/13 x7 + 23 x1 = 126 pen (with wand) & 107 dmg


TLDR: 12/13 x7 & 23 x1 to max stats for engineers/tailors going staff.


It was an option (and not the best option). The better option is choice 2.

I'll add your option 2 up there, but your option 1 is 9 spell penetration over the soft cap and i feel like that's too excessive.
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#36 Malacothdai

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:05 PM

servers are down, but is the haste staff really 129 res & haste while the crit, spirit, & hit staves are 113?

it's showing that on mmo, thottbot, & wowhead.
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#37 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:06 PM

servers are down, but is the haste staff really 129 res & haste while the crit, spirit, & hit staves are 113?

it's showing that on mmo, thottbot, & wowhead.


rofl offhand is priced at 300 arena points and i'm pretty sure that's wrong too.

In the off chance that it's not i have a secret strategy to make arena points faster

whoah duckers totally ninja cleaned up posts in here
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#38 Beertje

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:16 PM

Edit: nevermind just checked your armory and you fill your red slots with haste/spellpower, making this story pointless.
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#39 Scarra

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:24 PM

Edit: nevermind just checked your armory and you fill your red slots with haste/spellpower, making this story pointless.


Yeah i'm going for a more balanced setup this season and experimenting if i like it better.

prioritizing SP/haste gems with SP BM trinket and sp/spell pen gems.

I really want to spec meta though....
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#40 Malacothdai

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:32 PM

For destruction:

12 gems with staff & picking up all the socket bonuses

23 x2
12/10crit x3
12/13 x7

2816 dmg, 126 pen, 23.91% crit, 963 res, 24724 hp w/o firestone & armor

23 x5
12/13 x7

2849 dmg, 126 pen, 23.26% crit, 959 res, 24574 hp w/o firestone & armor


Edit: Going haste staff, bracers, belt, & boots instead of crit loses approx. 6% crit in order to gain approx. 9% haste.
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