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BM+Enh+Healer is simply too effective


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#21 Roblol

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:39 AM

so many classes have so many passive buff procs that can be purged it is often hard to get hand of prot off in under 3 globals anything from resto druid heals, to disc priest passive self procs, to destro lock nether protection and backdraft, to even expose weakness on survival hunters


^

and like I mentioned before, the real kick in the face, is it removes the MS debuff. sure you have 1 shock, but as BM you're scatter less, wyvern-less, silencing shot-less...

you really only have... HoJ if your pally is REALLY close, arcane torrent, if someone is a belf and up close, or 1 shock. MAYBE WHO KNOWS HEX? if you didn't use it earlier to help pressure and get the focus down low enough where a bop was required.


you're being way too "WELL SHAMAN AND HUNTERS HAVE THIS THIS AND THIS TO COUNTER THIS ONE SINGLE ABILITY" without considering the 0493204930 other things that can be going on, and most of the time are going on in arena.

it's not so night and day as you put it.

it takes several purges unless you're lucky to hit that bop, by this point you've exhausted your ONE interrupt, if it wasn't used prior to the BoP keep in mind shocks sometimes cause pallies to BoP... and the MS is gone, target gets healed pretty hard.
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#22 Achuu

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:39 AM

Are you actually arguing that BoP doesn't counter a cleave??
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#23 Roblol

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:41 AM

You're speaking as if bop counters you, rather than minimally sets you back.


I didn't once say it countered. I merely stated it can be a set back after you decided to holier than thou scoff at someone for heaven forbid, mentioning an ability that really pushes back their burst.


and enhance shaman dps isn't the best, in 3s most of the time to really force the kill, or BoP you need to be mashing your 3 damage abilities, maybe even dumping those MsW procs into DPS. Merely mashing purge while a hunter dps's isn't going to cause the pressure needed to force a BoP.
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#24 Strygwyr117

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:50 AM

Hasn't RMP been "simply too effective" for the past six seasons?

Yet here we are making threads about a comp that's been popular for about a month.
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#25 Plops aka pewpewlazers

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:50 AM

Fun theorycraft: Assuming we stacked up all the comps that Enh beastcleave has an advantage against, vs all comps that have an advantage against Enh beastcleave, what would the lists look like?
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#26 Roblol

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:54 AM

Hasn't RMP been "simply too effective" for the past six seasons?

Yet here we are making threads about a comp that's been popular for about a month.


a month lol? dude MLG was 1 weekend ago... we aren't even a full 7 days deep into the season.



but yeah, other than arguing stupid shit like duration that's basically true... i mean... WUT ANOTHER COMP WITH SYNERGIES LIKE WTF ANOTHER STRAT WE GOTTA LEARN, AND A NEW SPEC THAT'S FINALLY SEEING REPRESENTATION WTF I GOTTA LEARN HOW TO FIGHT ANOTHER CLASS AUGH JUST NERF IT.
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#27 Fierss

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:54 AM

Hasn't RMP been "simply too effective" for the past six seasons?

Yet here we are making threads about a comp that's been popular for about a month.


Never been a thread about RMP either. It's all an anti-shaman conspiracy.

They do need to break up RMP, or rather, stop leaving it as an outlier. It's the longest running #1 comp in the game, pretty much. That doesn't mean other things shouldn't be complained about at the same time.
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#28 Achuu

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:54 AM

I think that if RMPs ran with the rogue as HfB, the shaman would eat it pretty hard.
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#29 Plops aka pewpewlazers

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:58 AM

It's the longest running #1 comp in the game, pretty much.



RMP really ate a lot of shit back when HLD was in their prime :)
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#30 zhecar

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:58 AM

I say give RMP some love, other setups are too effective.
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#31 Roblol

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:58 AM

I think that if RMPs ran with the rogue as HfB, the shaman would eat it pretty hard.


all they have to do is be smart, stun shaman into cc's on priest, and it's not like its hard with kidney shots, deep freezes, prep/cold snap, or even fear him and sheep the priest.

and that's saying they even fight a shaman good enough to focus shock sheep and ground them if images aren't up.
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#32 komodo131

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 07:59 AM

I think that if RMPs ran with the rogue as HfB, the shaman would eat it pretty hard.


then they would just lose to all other RMP's with rogues that are specced 41/5/25
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#33 Plops aka pewpewlazers

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:02 AM

and that's saying they even fight a shaman good enough to focus shock sheep and ground them if images aren't up.


/tarenemyplayer macro for tab

/focus shock is simple to set up and use

Spellalert can easily be configured to put large red text for all the important things to ground

While I do agree that any Enh cleave is a skillcheck for the enh above the other teammates, it's not like it's difficult enough to rule out any significant amount of competitive arena-goers.
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#34 Roblol

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:05 AM

/tarenemyplayer macro for tab

/focus shock is simple to set up and use

Spellalert can easily be configured to put large red text for all the important things to ground

While I do agree that any Enh cleave is a skillcheck for the enh above the other teammates, it's not like it's difficult enough to rule out any significant amount of competitive arena-goers.


I still have the vanilla enhance shaman image in my mind. you know the ones who ran around and would pvp as enhance, and actually spec'd stormstrike over nature swiftness, refused to heal themselves ever, etc etc...

keyboard turning troll shaman with 2h weapons. /barf.


for the most part i assume the great influx of "beast cleave enh bm pally" 3s teams will seem really attractive to that caliber of player.
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#35 Candypants

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:09 AM

It's stupid because of how mindless it is. Kind of like most cleaves, only with heroism. It's frustrating to fight, but it's not really any worse than whatever dominant physical dps zerg of the day dominated in the past.


It's certainly not mindless. The playstyle might seem mindless but the shaman have to shock, put down totems, help his friends with slows, kite melees, purge and dps at the same time. The multitask is extreme and you really need a very good shaman for it to work. Oh i forgot hex too.
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#36 Plops aka pewpewlazers

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:12 AM

I still have the vanilla enhance shaman image in my mind. you know the ones who ran around and would pvp as enhance, and actually spec'd stormstrike over nature swiftness, refused to heal themselves ever, etc etc...

keyboard turning troll shaman with 2h weapons. /barf.

for the most part i assume the great influx of "beast cleave enh bm pally" 3s teams will seem really attractive to that caliber of player.


Well, I think part of the reason they aren't mainstream yet is that, just like you said, most good shamans were not bothering to flesh out enhance sets, even after 3.2.

I think this is going to change big time in s7
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#37 Prettybaby

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:12 AM

HoP removes aimed shot ms effect, and with dispel resists the odds of removing it immediately are pretty slim. 1 good heal and you're almost topped off.

as enhance bm hpally yes it is.


This is cute. I swear enhance shaman have their target fully purged nearly the whole game. And I also thought they could interrupt casts too, but maybe that was a myth.
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#38 Roblol

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:14 AM

This is cute. I swear enhance shaman have their target fully purged nearly the whole game. And I also thought they could interrupt casts too, but maybe that was a myth.


and so is reading the whole thread.

but here we go again, someone who thinks they know everything.
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#39 Roblol

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:16 AM

Well, I think part of the reason they aren't mainstream yet is that, just like you said, most good shamans were not bothering to flesh out enhance sets, even after 3.2.

I think this is going to change big time in s7


yeah, that's probably the case. however i've had this image in my mind of the typical enhance shaman since level 60. it's going to take quite a while for that to leave my mind.

however running into some good enhance shaman on the bg might change that. but i havent seen many or any yet.
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#40 Plops aka pewpewlazers

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:20 AM

yeah, that's probably the case. however i've had this image in my mind of the typical enhance shaman since level 60. it's going to take quite a while for that to leave my mind.

however running into some good enhance shaman on the bg might change that. but i havent seen many or any yet.


I dunno, my opinions are often heavily influenced by the empirical data taken in by myself only.

I've tracked a few BM beastcleaves, and it seems their current winrates usually do not correlate well with the arena experience evident in their feats of strength and rated arena statistics pages of armory.

Meaning, to me this seems to reflect that the comp (played correctly) is not disadvantaged against many, if any, things out there right now.
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