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Frost damage needs to be reevaluated


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#21 Erase

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:15 PM

Buffing frost mage damage by 15% would make it really overpowered coupled with tricks and imp kidney, those shatters already hurt alot


No one specs into imp kidney and the point is that shatters actually don't hurt, you should re read the thread.
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#22

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:15 PM

If mage would have destruction warlock damage with their insane utility and kiting/survival abilities how overpowered would that be? Any melee team almost comptelely lock out destruction warlock, not so much with mage.
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#23 Erase

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:16 PM

If mage would have destruction warlock damage with their insane utility and kiting/survival abilities how overpowered would that be? Any melee team almost comptelely lock out destruction warlock, not so much with mage.


Uh, what? Refer to Affix's latest post please.
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#24 affix

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:17 PM

Buffing frost mage damage by 15% would make it really overpowered coupled with tricks and imp kidney, those shatters already hurt alot


They'd hit for roughly half of what a well geared lock's Tricks'd CB+Conflag do.

If mage would have destruction warlock damage with their insane utility and kiting/survival abilities how overpowered would that be? Any melee team almost comptelely lock out destruction warlock, not so much with mage.


So what is your proposed solution? Leave us doing no damage, at the bottom of the representation charts in all three brackets, and nearly non-existent in the top 100?

The old excuse used to be that if we buffed Mage damage, the 'best of the best' Mages would be overpowered. It used to be true. But now, the best-of-the-best Mages aren't doing very well compared to other classes. In fact, we're doing worse than ALL classes overall.

So if a spec is doing badly in 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5, and it is also doing badly in the top 100, and it is also the worst PvE DPS spec in the game, how can you say that we'd be overpowered if you buffed us? Screaming about our survivability and CC is totally irrelevant when it doesn't actually make us successful. The numbers don't lie.

I guess if you want to be easily fooled you could just listen to the ~2400 rated mages on AJ that say "nah we're fine" due to some sort of pathetic attention grab or ego trip. But really, we're not a good class right now. We're fun. It feels like we're good, because we have all these nifty tools to stay alive. But that's not how you win arenas. Shatter should fucking hurt.
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#25 Horrible

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:21 PM

You're right, destro locks are retarded and need to be nerfed, you can't honestly think every class should be buffed to that level.
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#26 kkambanite

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:26 PM

lol cba read all the posts above.
but what i saw was...

wlocks >> mages. why would u need polymorph when u can simply burst like a lock. not to forget fear >> sheep.

wlocks have more survival then mages ~~~ arguable but pretty true.

and next: frost mages shatter combo is the hardest burst in game to place, and does like ~7-9k dmg...
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:mage: sheep the :deathknight: before u die and we win

#27 affix

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:27 PM

You're right, destro locks are retarded and need to be nerfed, you can't honestly think every class should be buffed to that level.


Please, address my post if you're intellectually capable (I can understand if you're not, this is AJ after all!):

So what is your proposed solution? Leave us doing no damage, at the bottom of the representation charts in all three brackets, and nearly non-existent in the top 100?

The old excuse used to be that if we buffed Mage damage, the 'best of the best' Mages would be overpowered. It used to be true. But now, the best-of-the-best Mages aren't doing very well compared to other classes. In fact, we're doing worse than ALL classes overall.

So if a spec is doing badly in 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5, and it is also doing badly in the top 100, and it is also the worst PvE DPS spec in the game, how can you say that we'd be overpowered if you buffed us? Screaming about our survivability and CC is totally irrelevant when it doesn't actually make us successful. The numbers don't lie.


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#28 kkambanite

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:29 PM

simply mages that fought last seasons at high ratings are still high rated cause they are skilled and never (whats the word.. " relyed"?) on being op like the rest of the classes. but srsly mages need a dmg buff.

some classes are just being played by skilled ppl and thats why they never get the needed buffs. one of these classes are the frost mages (not arcane ones)
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:mage: sheep the :deathknight: before u die and we win

#29 Hide

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:32 PM

Affix seems to be the only poster in this thread to have passed grade school.
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#30 Erase

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:33 PM

Affix seems to be the only poster in this thread to have passed grade school.


That's pretty fucked up bro, wheres the love? :(
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#31 Hide

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:34 PM

They'd hit for roughly half of what a well geared lock's Tricks'd CB+Conflag do.


^
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#32 Mackeveli

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:34 PM

best of d best mages are at d top of d ladder sry

but i agree outside of rmp mages have less opportunity to casst than dlocks. destro needs anothr nerf mages need slight boost in dmg to compete in 3s(inb4lolrmp)
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#33 Erase

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:38 PM

best of d best mages are at d top of d ladder sry

but i agree outside of rmp mages have less opportunity to casst than dlocks. destro needs anothr nerf mages need slight boost in dmg to compete in 3s(inb4lolrmp)


What? :confused::confused::confused::confused:
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#34 Spiders

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:38 PM

Guys i'm going to outlive your team with my limited mana pool...

Why the hell would you call frost a survivability spec? It's mana efficiency is horrendous
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#35 affix

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:39 PM

best of d best mages are at d top of d ladder sry


Really? Where? Not in the top 100. RMP representation was at 34% about two months ago. It is down to 19%. It drops a few % every week. This doesn't mean it is gradually getting worse, it means it already IS worse and the numbers are just now catching up.

We're virtually nonexistent at the top of the ladders in 2v2. 3v3 we have RMP, which artificially bolsters our representation, but still only brings us to 8th out of 10th. Again, in 5v5 we're dead last.

but i agree outside of rmp mages have less opportunity to casst than dlocks. destro needs anothr nerf mages need slight boost in dmg to compete in 3s(inb4lolrmp)


Our point that 'opportunity to cast' is irrelevant when our FB+IL double crit ~25% of the time, and for the same amount as one conflag crit.
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#36 affix

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:40 PM

Guys i'm going to outlive your team with my limited mana pool...

Why the hell would you call frost a survivability spec? It's mana efficiency is horrendous


You don't have to exaggerate to prove the point - frost has high survivability compared to the average class/spec, that is perfectly clear. But that survivability doesn't buy us any success.
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#37 Horrible

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:56 PM

Sorry that Affix edited actual content into his post after I responded to his useless troll?

Playing a frost mage with some PvE gear I don't really see where the problem in damage is, if you balance a class around half their spells critting what happens when they all do? If a frost bolt+icelance does 11k damage what happens when you get a frost bolt+frost bolt+fireball+icelance for 20k damage?

If you want mage damage to be where you would like it in full PvP gear it's going to be retarded in PvE gear (which 90% of mages use).
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#38 Erase

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:59 PM

Sorry that Affix edited actual content into his post after I responded to his useless troll?

Playing a frost mage with some PvE gear I don't really see where the problem in damage is, if you balance a class around half their spells critting what happens when they all do? If a frost bolt+icelance does 11k damage what happens when you get a frost bolt+frost bolt+fireball+icelance for 20k damage?

If you want mage damage to be where you would like it in full PvP gear it's going to be retarded in PvE gear (which 90% of mages use).


When does it ever do 11k damage? Are you not playing people who actually use resilience? Check out the first post on this thread then you should edit your post for content so that Affix doesn't make you look like a fool.
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#39 Revelstoke

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:59 PM

You don't have to exaggerate to prove the point - frost has high survivability compared to the average class/spec, that is perfectly clear. But that survivability doesn't buy us any success.


but also blindly saying "give me moar damage plz" doesn't either


other classes/specs need nerfs, mages dont need buffs
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#40 affix

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 09:04 PM

but also blindly saying "give me moar damage plz" doesn't either


I'm not blindly saying that, I'm saying it and using evidence to support my opinion as to why it is necessary. And the only thing you've said to counter it was that we have high survivability so we don't need damage, which I have also refuted.

other classes/specs need nerfs, mages dont need buffs


Okay - either 8 out of the 10 classes need nerfs, or Mages need buffs. I'll let you figure out which is easier.
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