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Racial Abilities, should they be taken out?


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Poll: Should racial abilities be usable in arenas? (292 member(s) have cast votes)

Should racial abilities be usable in arenas?

  1. yes (76 votes [42.94%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 42.94%

  2. no (101 votes [57.06%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 57.06%

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#1 Kank

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 02:46 PM

topic explains itself.

#2 Kank

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 02:46 PM

I vote no!

If yes, why?

#3 Veev

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 10:52 PM

I'd say take them out for arenas as well

#4 Xasha

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 11:20 PM

Uhh, I don't think the onus is on players who believe in the status-quo to justify it.  If you want the game changed, you should provide a very compelling argument to justify your position, otherwise you're just whining.
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#5 Phiers

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 12:16 AM

I think the only variables in the arena should be gear, class balance, and ability.  People mostly picked their racials before the arena ever existed.

#6 Oowafas

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 12:37 AM

Blizzard needs to implement Gnomish Race Changers imo. (I'm jaykay(Kind of))

#7 Scottotem

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:13 AM

Let me preface this by saying I'm Alliance.

Dwarf Priests and NElf Druids are the 2 most broken class/race combinations I can think of.  Fear Ward is INSANE.  Stoneform completely negates (for a time) one of the few Priest killers out there.

Druids already have the best chance of any healing class to retreat and drink.  For most, this is countered by simply using an instant ranged attack/spell to force them up (assuming they don't drink bug, but in that case anyone can drink) once in LoS.  NElves are able to Shadowmeld, thereby forcing the other team to either move across the arena to force them to stand or forcing them to pop Perception to see the Druid from a reasonable distance.

I'm not saying they should be removed, I'm just saying I understand.
So happy to have a forum of non-tards.

#8 Dinc

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:36 AM

Disable them or at least give everyone a choice to pick what they want IMO.

#9 Airwavez

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 02:11 AM

Dinc said:

Disable them or at least give everyone a choice to pick what they want IMO.

Or just disable them completely.

#10 Conradical

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 02:53 AM

Airwavez said:

Dinc said:

Disable them or at least give everyone a choice to pick what they want IMO.

Or just disable them completely.

He said that.

#11 Insight

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 03:50 AM

I think removing them would cause too much impact on some teams that kinda depend on it (ie. undeads in teams widout dispeller), but then again in some situations racials have too much impact on the outcome.

I would change shadowmeld and stealth so you cant drink/eat while under the effect. It's unfair for example that team A makes mana difference with good play and then it all evens back just because team A healer had to spend precious time interrupting team B healer's drinking while shadowmelded.

View Poststcolbert, on 25 November 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

To state anecdotal evidence is completely worthless is also fucking stupid since that's what the studies are based on

#12 Phiers

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 03:51 AM

Insight said:

I think removing them would cause too much impact on some teams that kinda depend on it (ie. undeads in teams widout dispeller), but then again in some situations racials have too much impact on the outcome.

I would change shadowmeld and stealth so you cant drink/eat while under the effect. It's unfair for example that team A makes mana difference with good play and then it all evens back just because team A healer had to spend precious time interrupting team B healer's drinking while shadowmelded.

Or just remove drinking from the arena altogether, mage or not.

#13 Rhaegyn

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 05:56 AM

Phiers said:

Insight said:

I think removing them would cause too much impact on some teams that kinda depend on it (ie. undeads in teams widout dispeller), but then again in some situations racials have too much impact on the outcome.

I would change shadowmeld and stealth so you cant drink/eat while under the effect. It's unfair for example that team A makes mana difference with good play and then it all evens back just because team A healer had to spend precious time interrupting team B healer's drinking while shadowmelded.

Or just remove drinking from the arena altogether, mage or not.

Then the issue becomes that shadow priests, moonkins, hunters, etc aren't as good in arena because they become useless far before a warlock or melee does, so then they have to buff their mana somehow, which affects pve too much.  Better to keep it.  

I do think that racials should be removed, or the option should be given to choose a racial.  Although I'm a little biased in this, escape artist would be $$.

Levidian said:

Nearly perfectly balanced per current class strenghts:
Hunters

#14 Kank

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 07:20 AM

Xasha said:

Uhh, I don't think the onus is on players who believe in the status-quo to justify it.  If you want the game changed, you should provide a very compelling argument to justify your position, otherwise you're just whining.


My apologies, among the people I've spoken with about this issue, the consensus has been that they are imbalanced and should be removed.

In my opinion, racial abilities give an unfair advantage to certain races. For example, in a mirror match with a human 28/33 priest and a mace rogue vs. a dwarf 28/33 priest and a mace rogue, the human priest has at least two more dispel magic casts he has to make, if not 4 or 5, assuming he doesn't take off fear ward on the first cast on each player. Otherwise the humans first fear is totally useless, which can conceivably cost him the game.

Trolls get pretty shafted with racial abilities as well, gnomes have a pretty powerful one, etc.

#15 Grup

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 08:00 AM

I actually think my racials as an orc shaman are pretty bad.  I never use blood fury because it just is like mortal striking myself for even longer, and stun resist is pretty much only very useful to me against rogues, but other classes have their own stun resist talents while shaman do not (meaning a priest has just as much stun resist as an orc shaman).

At the same time, why change it?  It's interesting.  Shaman aren't very good in 2v2, so can I be given another 70 for free because I chose my class before arena?  Honestly WoW PvP isn't about true fairness.  It never will be.  That's what gives it flavor.

#16 Lure

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 08:38 AM

Racials should not win arenas.

Skill and class makeup should win arenas.

Right now racials win arenas.  

Rogue vs. dwarf?   Oh good game you can't blind him and he can remove all your poisons.  
Priest vs. Undead?  Oh good game they can remove your first 2 fears with trinket and wotf.  Have fun not being able to get breathing room for 2 minutes straight.
Rogue vs. Orc?  No stuns for you, eat 30% stun resist.
Belf and Tauren, free interrupts, how balanced.

#17 Xasha

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 03:37 PM

Class match-ups shouldn't win arenas, skill should win arenas...  oh wait...

Racial abilities are simply another dimension of the rock-scissors-paper aspect of balance.  Should every class be nerfed so that any class has a 50/50 chance of beating them given equally skilled players?  The game would be so bland and boring, every fight would be determined by pure luck of the dice roll.  I would never play a game that was so shallow.
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#18 Kadrix

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 08:48 PM

Racials are fine imo. Perception can be amazing. Some classes are at a disadvantage, mainly NE's, as their racials are mostly situational in arenas. Dwarfs and UD's are the at the biggest advantage in arenas with their racials imo.
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#19 Kank

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 12:23 AM

Xasha said:

Should every class be nerfed so that any class has a 50/50 chance of beating them given equally skilled players?

That's not the question, the question here is leveling the playing field among different races of the same class.

#20 Veev

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 01:22 AM

Sad thing is that Blizz only makes changes based on community feedback when there's a new thread posted about it on the general forum every 30 sec.  And since the arena community is relatively small, that isn't really going to happen.




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