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#1 Blowi

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:03 PM

Hi there my friends. Some people feel I've been trolling when I asked for buffs to shamans (Duckers is just a hater)

But honestly, I'd like everyone to describe whenever you feel the situation is just not playable.

Please try describe when you feel the class reaches its limits in this thread, and we'll gather it all. I'll post it on shaman forums on EU, and someone can do it on US. They have not yet come up with anything ,therefore I feel we should try give them some ideas.

Surely we've said lots of things before, but please. Give it a shot my friends 8)

~Hex is useless versus druid teams
~A warrior can way too easily train a shaman, almost any decent melee can.
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#2 zzdr

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:05 PM

The situation is just not playable when I see "buff shamans" all day in IRC.

Beating shamans is pretty easy in 2's. Sticking up a warrior on a shaman is all you need to do to win. Maybe the key to buffing shamans would be like, nerfing UA? I heard it's one of the biggest counters. Also buffing their mana efficiency somehow might do it, as from my pov shamans are pretty easy to oom by just focusing their partner. Reducing mana costs by a talent or something?
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#3 Rehupuntti

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:09 PM

shaman have 3 good specs but no single op, (expect eleshamans dominate on 5v5 but thats fine i think) also i can see that restoshamans should have the same earthbind "remove snares" effect as they have in enchanment tree?

buff shamans
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#4 Kentachi

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:17 PM

make earthshield cost less mana or make it undispellable
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#5 Slot

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:20 PM

When you face a druid team and wonder why you even keybound Hex.
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#6 illu

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:27 PM

helloooo. playing a shaman in arena is generally quite frustrating atm. as a shaman it is very possible to reach high ratings if you actually try to, however i feel like id go so much further if i was playing another healing class.

the two classes i feel destroy shamans right now are warriors and druids. it is possible to beat teams with either of those classes but it feels quite stuipid that i have to either play 10000 times better then them or wait for some kind of dumb lucky crit spree from my partner to bring something down.

there are alot of fixes and ideas ive read about here on the shaman forums that would help us alot or just straight out fix our class. some changes i feel would be nice is to make all these dumb buffs priests and rets get undispellable so that our purge will be a bit more usefull. another thing id like is for either our mana efficiency to become slightly better or for them to fix mana tide some how, making it hard to kill(some kind of minor glyph here that would make it immune to damage for maybe 5 seconds after its been placed?). another fix might be to maybe change focused mind and maybe add a weakend astral shift effect to the already existing talent. i just saw some post earlier today aswell about some glyphs, one of the glyphs made it possible to place totems while stunned. that would also be a nice change imo. cant really think of any good fixes or balance changes atm, and idk if giving us the things i mentioned would be op or not but hey its just my 50 cents.
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tja

#7 Legay

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:33 PM

When you face a druid team and wonder why you even keybound Hex.


This.

You can out mana bad druid/wars, and even good Druid/DKs, but its a 15 minute game.

However I feel the amount of skill it takes to even have a shot at these teams is extremely disproportionate to the amount of skill it takes to execute.
I can live with Druid/War being hard counter to shaman. Until totem killing macros are fixed we're too vulnerable to warlocks.
It feels like we need at least one "Oh $%^&" to deal with burst. But it needs a loooooong cool down, because shaman have so many little mitigating abilities, over a long fight we do very well. But those littles do not add up to enough to survive a burst.

Make shamanistic rage trainable, give it a 5 or 10 minute cool down. Then the enhancement talents can decrease it's CD and add the mana return to it.
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#8 Eureka

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 03:31 PM

the current state of mana tide. oh the joy seeing a druid getting ~100% mana in ~10 secs while we get ~25% mana in ~12 secs from mana tide that is 1 hittable. and the current state of ES, the fact that it costs ~700 mana and is dispellable is a freaking shame.
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#9 Mitear

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 03:33 PM

Totem stomping. I hear so much about it being "fixed soon" etc. Make it happen please!

Tremor totem was on a 1 sec pulse, start of Wotlk. Massive QQ, They put it back on a 3 sec pulse and it is fucking useless. Bad priests can run up to me and fear me and go "lol, tremor up *BOINK*" and I take the whole fear. Put it on a 2 sec pulse instead.

I feel in 3v3, there is no point playing either as resto or enhance. It's 90% cleave teams, 10% RMP. Both those rape me in a matter of seconds. As resto I have nothing apart from NS and Stoneclaw. As enhance I can pop 1H+Shield, Stoneclaw, Sham Rage, try to escape with Earthen Power (rolled engi for nitro boots and that helped, but now that's gone too) and still die 1 second later in a GCD. I've got over 800 resil & 21215 HP unbuffed. As resto I die even faster. Atleast if I'm enhance Maelstrom wep gives the the occassional instant healing wave if I live long enough to build 5 stacks.

What could solve this? Buffing the Stoneclaw Glyph by twice the damage absorbed would be a start. Still, I believe that our main survivability depending on a glyph is totally the wrong way to balance things.

We could really use Sham Rage trainable. Would love to have that while playing Resto.
We really need another Hot apart from riptide. A trainable one would be nice. Maybe not as powerful, but something similar to lifebloom, yet not as OP.

I could think about a million other things, but going on a cruise now, bye :D
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#10 Yrm

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 04:58 PM

earthshield undispelable and reduce the cd on stoneclaw shield to 20 secs, and change riptide hot to something usefull, and buff mana tide only for the shaman though or reduce the cooldown, even though that would be "op" for pve
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#11 Casta

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 05:17 PM

Resto woes:

1. Mana efficiency is bad even if you're not getting swapped to. If they makes swaps on you it goes from bad to utterly crap. The nerf to drinking made things a lot worse since you now have to pretty much LoS to get ticks in.

Manatide is terrible - everyone and their grandmother's dog got addons that go MANATIDE UP KEEL IT NOW once it's up and stoneclaw won't bring much comfort.

I'd like to see manatide trainable and stoneclaw absorb a little more damage on totems so it can't be instant nuked down by healers. Maybe give imp. WS give a little more chance to proc on LHWs again, even if it promotes the way of the crit shaman. :)

2. Purge being useless vs druids and offensive play vs druids is seldom rewarded. Killing anything vs a druid team is difficult in 2s unless they're dumb enough to go caster.

3. Riptide's biggest use is the haste. Why do we even have a glyph that increases its duration? I know comparing class abilities is dumb cos classes are overall different but I can't help to feel like we got shafted seeing how stuff like pennance or holy shock are.

4. Survavibilty isn't terrific although I feel like we're not missing that much. Just being able to use stoneclaw while stunned might be enough. I really liked the idea of spirit link when WotLK was in beta but I guess that's too much to hope for.

5. Tremor is very lackluster. Shamans don't heal well on the move - we do it way worse than paladins for example so we need better cover for fears. Being able to cover tremor with stoneclaw would be amazing but a 2sec pulse would do too like someone suggested.

6. The fun, WHEAR IZ IT? I have way more fun playing my alt priest than the shaman atm. The synergy or utility shaman brings to a team is pretty laughable compared to the other healers and the playstyle just isn't that appealing.

I'd like to see shamans in a state that priests are atm: not overpowered but a class that's fun to play with well thought out abilities.
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#12 Ramuuh

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 05:25 PM

1)Shorten the cd on hex to 30 seconds

2) increase range on hex to 30 yards

3) Redesign Nature's Guardian similar to Natural perfection or Renewed hope. ie reduce damage taken by an x amount of percent. A flat 3% aura-like damage reduction or a spell somewhere along the lines of reflective shield which will make us the offensive healer we are suppose to be. Right now it feels like druids star fire and priests holy fire are slightly under LB damage.

4) Make ghost wolf unsappable

5) Make ghost wolf undispelable or make it remove movement impairing effects like hamstring. Right now ghost wolf is crap and the warrior tunnel vision strat is very popular and effective.

6)Combine Water shield/Earth shield so our mana regen isn't complete trash

7) Make earth shield undispelable. Too many games have been lost because Mage/rogue decides to spell steal it in a stun lock or priest rogue dispels it in cheap.

8)If 7 doesn't happen redesign all the Resto glyphs. Right now the Lhw, and earth shield glyph ( Most commonly used) depend on earth shield actually being active. Basically with 1 gcd( and a low mana cost) a priest can not only remove earth shield, but also remove 2/3 glyphs.

9)Increase the healing coefficient on riptides hot. It's mediocre to say the least in its current state and not acceptable.

10) Remove totem stomping and give totems more health. I cringe every time I picture a 12 year old with braces spamming a macro posted on the internet and fearing me. :(

11) shorten cd on stone claw to 20 seconds.

12) Make purge not useless change offensive dispel mechanics.

13) Make Mana tide not killable/buff the amount of mana it gives back. 5 minute cd on it is already long enough,

14) Increase shamans health pool

15) Redesign Focused Mind or put a stop to 100-0 dying in stuns. there should be some kind of limit or talent for this. :)
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:shaman::warrior: For life

Totem stomping was (is) retarded, but atm, it was the only thing keeping certain OP totems in check

#13 Legay

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 05:31 PM

earthshield undispelable and reduce the cd on stoneclaw shield to 20 secs, and change riptide hot to something usefull, and buff mana tide only for the shaman though or reduce the cooldown, even though that would be "op" for pve


You say that dude, but on a fight like Hodir, with comparable gear to the priest/pally in my group, I go through literally twice as much mana as they. I use tide, pot, and take an innervate and still OOM at the end of the fight. Meanwhile the priest has done 30% more healing and still has a little more mana than me. That stupid Spirit Trinket is gg for priest mana.


So I'm thinking buffing tide, which is NOT TRAINABLE LIKE INNERVATE, wouldn't be particuarly game breaking.
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#14 Ramuuh

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 05:38 PM

Lifebloom is also trainable and much better than our 51 point talent.

Wtb spirit link back That shit was awesome on the beta.
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:shaman::warrior: For life

Totem stomping was (is) retarded, but atm, it was the only thing keeping certain OP totems in check

#15 Spiritedaway

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 06:59 PM

1)

4) Make ghost wolf unsappable

5) Make ghost wolf undispelable or make it remove movement impairing effects like hamstring. Right now ghost wolf is crap and the warrior tunnel vision strat is very popular and effective.


If this would go live, i'd maaaybe spec into imp ghost wolf again. Nowadays I can't really understand anyone wasting 2 talent points on it.
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#16 Douja

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 07:05 PM

You can't expect to get every weakness shamans have to be buffed, shamans aren't amazing atm but if they buffed them too much they would be extremely overpowered. The reason for this is because heroism/bloodlust which is one of the strongest abilities in the game and the main reason people play with shamans.

IMO what shamans need is something to counter stuns atleast once in a fight, right now shamans get raped the hardest by stuns over any other healer. Maybe something like a buff you can pop while stunned/feared similar to barkskin (but not damage reduction).
I was thinking it could be something that heals you everytime you get hit by any melee/spell for say 10-20% of your hp which would be charge based. It would have to be a long cooldown maybe like 2-3 minutes.

Oh and make mana tide a baseline ability.
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#17 Eureka

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 07:08 PM

You can't expect to get every weakness shamans have to be buffed, shamans aren't amazing atm but if they buffed them too much they would be extremely overpowered. The reason for this is because heroism/bloodlust which is one of the strongest abilities in the game and the main reason people play with shamans.

IMO what shamans need is something to counter stuns atleast once in a fight, right now shamans get raped the hardest by stuns over any other healer. Maybe something like a buff you can pop while stunned/feared similar to barkskin (but not damage reduction).
I was thinking it could be something that heals you everytime you get hit by any melee/spell for say 10-20% of your hp which would be charge based. It would have to be a long cooldown maybe like 2-3 minutes.

Oh and make mana tide a baseline ability.

Then again heroism can be spellstealed and dispelled easily ;)
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#18 Douja

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 07:20 PM

Then again heroism can be spellstealed and dispelled easily ;)


If thats the case, then either your team isn't putting out enough pressure or you aren't playing in the right comp.
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#19 Moonies

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 07:21 PM

Well playing with a warlock covers most of my weaknesses pretty well, but the thing that really pisses me off allll the time is Tremor being so shit (or rather, totemstomping making it shit) and Mana Tide being completely useless.
Mana efficieny is ofcourse an issue (compared to other healers) but I don't notice many problems myself with it because playing with a warlock allows for a lot of opportunities to drink. However our mana efficiency really sucks and it would be nice to either see other healers managain-abilities nerfed, or a shamans mana efficiency (or Mana Tide) buffed.

So in short:
-Totemstomping
-Mana Tide
-Mana efficiency
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#20 Ramuuh

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 07:34 PM

You can't expect to get every weakness shamans have to be buffed, shamans aren't amazing atm but if they buffed them too much they would be extremely overpowered. The reason for this is because heroism/bloodlust which is one of the strongest abilities in the game and the main reason people play with shamans.

IMO what shamans need is something to counter stuns atleast once in a fight, right now shamans get raped the hardest by stuns over any other healer. Maybe something like a buff you can pop while stunned/feared similar to barkskin (but not damage reduction).
I was thinking it could be something that heals you everytime you get hit by any melee/spell for say 10-20% of your hp which would be charge based. It would have to be a long cooldown maybe like 2-3 minutes.

Oh and make mana tide a baseline ability.


Was just posting some suggestions and explaining what our weaknesses are. Obviously if we had all those changes we'd be over powered. I do agree with you that mana tide needs to be baseline and stuns are too much. That's where nature's guardian or focused mind needs to be re-looked at.

But even with mana tide baseline, its much worse than innervate divine plea and priest regen abilities.

Seriously something needs to be done about earth shield. It's way too easy to dispel in its current state even with the Rng 30 percent talent.
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:shaman::warrior: For life

Totem stomping was (is) retarded, but atm, it was the only thing keeping certain OP totems in check




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