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[Blizzard] Blizzard on Cleaves and Plate vs. Cloth.


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#41 Mearis

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:34 PM

Elaborate why warriors would be useless if you could be feared.

I'd like one good, solid reason why you should have a free fear break every half a second, compared to another melee such as a rogue or ret.


Because warriors have such a hard time staying on target and do such poor damage versus cloth targets?? Think before you type maybe, troll
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#42 Powerslave

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:38 PM

Because I can stop a fear not even close as well as any other melee ,apart from rets(and rets can kill someone in a hoj).A rogue being on a lock can stop casted fears for I don't know how long.

Because if anyone sneezes in the arena,a warrior gets cc'd.

I know you will bring up me having higher mobility and stuff which will lead to an endless discussion,but warriors would be useless if they were easily fearable.(and the same applies to tbc,it would be a heroic feat to get above 2000 in 2s/3s back then without berserker rage breaking fears)
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#43 varvaros

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:40 PM

The game is broken for casters right now for various reasons that are discussed here and there.Even Blizzard aknowledged this.Sad thing is that to fix the problem,major changes are needed which i dont see them coming shortly,if you judge from the past.
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#44 Mearis

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:41 PM

Excuse me kind sir, other than rogues, which melee exactly has an easier time stopping fears than a warrior?

Rets? Dks? Feral druids? I mean you are the 2nd best after rogues but somehow you made yourself out to be the worst which is a pretty uncanny feat even for yourself.
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#45 Frigo

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:45 PM

From a money making point of view, yes Tya.

For an experience point of view of real PvPers, no. Just because there are 25 different specs who can all oneshot each other doesn't mean the game is fun and balanced.

And no, profs aren't equal either. There are two which are both standing out a fair bit than the others. One more than the second.

But this is kinda derailing the thread.


Quoted for truth.
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#46 Tya

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:46 PM

Because warriors have such a hard time staying on target and do such poor damage versus cloth targets?? Think before you type maybe, troll


: (((


Because I can stop a fear not even close as well as any other melee ,apart from rets(and rets can kill someone in a hoj).A rogue being on a lock can stop casted fears for I don't know how long.

Because if anyone sneezes in the arena,a warrior gets cc'd.

I know you will bring up me having higher mobility and stuff which will lead to an endless discussion,but warriors would be useless if they were easily fearable.(and the same applies to tbc,it would be a heroic feat to get above 2000 in 2s/3s back then without berserker rage breaking fears)


Rets killing someone in a HoJ is either a gross overexaggeration or one of those once-a-blue-moon occurrences. We both know that part is a blatant lie.

Rets do less damage to a warlock than warriors do. I'm going to leave priests out, because honestly, I don't know how they cope with either. So I'll focus on warlocks here.

Now again, rets do less damage to a warlock than a warrior. I don't even bother to swap armour vs a ret. I can fear a ret about as much as I like and he can't stop me. I still lose matches to rets, frequently.

Now, given that warriors pressure warlocks a lot more than rets do, why should you have fear immunity?



Lichborne I'm almost okay with. WotF is a complete joke of a racial. Berserker Rage breaking fear needs to go. Why Bladestorm makes you immune to CC or snares is completely beyond me (BUT ITS A LONG COOLDOWN : ((( No. It's a death sentence with very few counters).

Warrior mobility is too high. You're a melee class, not a goddamn mage. When you're teleporting around the damn map faster than Linford Cristie stoked up with Relentless you know something is wrong. Being melee means you're supposed to be prone to being kited. It's part of being melee.

All the other rediculous melee CC immunities need to be reviewed. The only ones I'd like to see stay are bubble, CloS and AMS. The rest have absolutely no justifiable reason to be in the game.
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#47 Kluian

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:49 PM

The only reason warriors do more damage to locks than rets is because they can be kited + more easily controlled by warlocks than warriors can. Rets do a lot more damage to high targets than warriors do, however.

Oh, and lichborne is bullshit. Lichborne + AMS + trinket + wotf if they have it is too GD much. 20 seconds of being unpeelable is beyond retarded.
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#48 Mearis

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:51 PM

I am fine with immunities / CC breaks on minute+ cooldowns if they are part of a class ability (lichborn, berserk), I am not fine with short duration CC breaks (rage) and or only certain races only having CC breaks (WOTF)

Of course Levidian/Powerslave will claim that warriors need the extra skill for sticking on cloth classes since they struggle so much otherwise.
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#49 Melliah

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:51 PM

:Rets killing someone in a HoJ is either a gross overexaggeration or one of those once-a-blue-moon occurrences.



what game are you playing? every second game against a ret pally someone gets gibbed in 3 globals, much less a hoj

edit: in response to the beserker rage issue, it seems a bit much to completely take the ability from them.
making it work like wotf a 1 time break without the long period of immunity afterward sounds fair to me, raising the cd to maybe 1 min or so doesnt sound bad either
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If this shitbag Beastcleave comp wins again I'm going to drive a bus full of nuns into a school for retarded children and blow it up.

sadly, this wouldnt even be overreacting

you arent obeying the rules, the rules clearly state
A. Never get big and/or Stay Small (AT ALL TIMES)
B. Stay 2nd
and you're doing neither, you're getting big and staying like 20th, the police will be after you, and when they find you, don't run


#50 Tya

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:52 PM

I am fine with immunities / CC breaks on minute+ cooldowns if they are part of a class ability, I am not fine with short duration CC breaks (rage) and or only certain races only having CC breaks (WOTF)


Pretty much exactly this.
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#51 Tya

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:53 PM

what game are you playing? every second game against a ret pally someone gets gibbed in 3 globals, much less a hoj


Apparently one where me or my partner has more than 12k health.
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#52 Melliah

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:56 PM

maybe if you are considering soullink i could understand you finding that rare
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If this shitbag Beastcleave comp wins again I'm going to drive a bus full of nuns into a school for retarded children and blow it up.

sadly, this wouldnt even be overreacting

you arent obeying the rules, the rules clearly state
A. Never get big and/or Stay Small (AT ALL TIMES)
B. Stay 2nd
and you're doing neither, you're getting big and staying like 20th, the police will be after you, and when they find you, don't run


#53 Powerslave

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:56 PM

: (((




Rets killing someone in a HoJ is either a gross overexaggeration or one of those once-a-blue-moon occurrences. We both know that part is a blatant lie.

Rets do less damage to a warlock than warriors do. I'm going to leave priests out, because honestly, I don't know how they cope with either. So I'll focus on warlocks here.

Now again, rets do less damage to a warlock than a warrior. I don't even bother to swap armour vs a ret. I can fear a ret about as much as I like and he can't stop me. I still lose matches to rets, frequently.

Now, given that warriors pressure warlocks a lot more than rets do, why should you have fear immunity?



Lichborne I'm almost okay with. WotF is a complete joke of a racial. Berserker Rage breaking fear needs to go. Why Bladestorm makes you immune to CC or snares is completely beyond me (BUT ITS A LONG COOLDOWN : ((( No. It's a death sentence with very few counters).

Warrior mobility is too high. You're a melee class, not a goddamn mage. When you're teleporting around the damn map faster than Linford Cristie stoked up with Relentless you know something is wrong. Being melee means you're supposed to be prone to being kited. It's part of being melee.

All the other rediculous melee CC immunities need to be reviewed. The only ones I'd like to see stay are bubble, CloS and AMS. The rest have absolutely no justifiable reason to be in the game.


Rets killing people in a hoj isn't an exaggeration.With cooldowns up they can kill pretty much anyone in a duration of stun if they dont have trinket or defensive cooldowns up.In most cases they don't need a lot of crits to it.

Rets do more damage on cloth than warriors ,as long as they are on it.If warlocks can kite them,it's not my problem.In fact it's actually totally irrelevant to the conversation.

If warriors couldnt break fear with berserker rage they would be largely useless.Gl fighting priest+ melee as pretty much any warrior team.Gl vs rmp with both the mage and the priest shitting cc all over you.

In short,warriors zerker rage vs fear.

But apparently they don't need it since you can't beat warrior healer as warlock healer as things are now and since this is the backbone of game balance ,since warlocks cant play other brackets or double dps,berserker rage must be deleted.
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#54 Kluian

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:56 PM

A pally with wings + trinkets can drop someone in a hoj. I don't know if you have been playing vs idiots or what but it happens way more than it should (ever).

As for zerker rage, just increase the CD to like 1 minute or make it so the fear break portion and the incapacitate portion have different CDs.
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#55 Powerslave

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:59 PM

Apparently one where me or my partner has more than 12k health.


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#56 Kluian

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:00 PM

pmuch
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#57 Melliah

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:01 PM

its mostly the immunity effect lasting so long after the fear break imo, being able to break fear in itself is okay.
i like the 1 min idea though just because it wouldnt leave warlocks mostly defenseless against warriors and every second priest fear would have some effect at least
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If this shitbag Beastcleave comp wins again I'm going to drive a bus full of nuns into a school for retarded children and blow it up.

sadly, this wouldnt even be overreacting

you arent obeying the rules, the rules clearly state
A. Never get big and/or Stay Small (AT ALL TIMES)
B. Stay 2nd
and you're doing neither, you're getting big and staying like 20th, the police will be after you, and when they find you, don't run


#58 Tya

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:02 PM

But apparently they don't need it since you can't beat warrior healer as warlock healer as things are now and since this is the backbone of game balance ,since warlocks cant play other brackets or double dps,berserker rage must be deleted.


Feel free to check my past games. I have no problem beating the keyboard turning mouthbreathers that make up the ranks of arms warriors at the 2300-2400 MMR that I'm stuck at.

Just because I think an ability is retarded doesn't mean all my thoughts are infested with personal bias.

There is no reason warriors should be immune to fear. This goes for druids with poly, and whatever other class-given crutches you can bring forth.
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#59 Mearis

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:02 PM

I was somewhat fine with zerker rage when warriors only way of closing the gap was an 18 second intercept - now that they got a 15 second charge on top of intercept, it is pretty much overkill, and warriors (nor other melees) should have the god forsaken right to have 100% uptime of their damage on cloth classes, thankfully even GC seems to think this.
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#60 Grombringal

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:03 PM

Most people aren't going to argue with you Tya because you're retardly stubborn and massively biased (kind of Levidian).
Yes melee damage is too high, yes melee scaling is too good, yes Warlocks get destroyed by heavy melee teams, any intelligent player knows that. I'm not going to ask you to shut the hell up but could you gather all your whiny posts in one thread, settle things down and stop posting the exact same arguments over and over? Please stop posting like Xanny :(
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