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What are a couple necessary nerfs rogues need?


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#21 NeroMaelstrom

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:46 AM

Crippling to 50%, stuns break after a certain amount of damage, lower poison proc rate or remove damage from wound poison.
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#22 Shork

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:53 AM

Crippling to 50%, stuns break after a certain amount of damage, lower poison proc rate or remove damage from wound poison.


Lowering the poison proc rates would most likely hurt combat and sub more than mutilate. Give poisons some sort of protection before doing anything else to them.
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#23 NeroMaelstrom

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:53 AM

The protection is they reapply instantly, honestly.
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#24 Alabasta

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:53 AM

I'm pretty happy with rogues.

The thing is, the other melee classes are trashing us. Our foremost defense is said to be stealth, but with every class having something to break you out of it before you get close and vanish being broken to hell its out of the question.

Other defense is dodge and a cooldown to go with it: evasion, yet this is completly useless against anything apart from enh sham, feral druid and another rogue.

Our squishyness factor and kiteable factor shows pretty well when teams either just ignore you while you keep pounding them (warriors and DK's zerging down your healer) or just tunnelvisioning you the entire game for some easy and profitable rating.

I think we need a fix to vanish and something like nerves of steel trainable and reworked. The talent currently reduces damage in stun. I would like it to be something that stops you from being flash nuked. Making it trainable just so Blizzard won't let us have to spec some horrible spec just to pick it up.

I know this post will get alot of people to start flaming me, but this is what actually happens if people play their class to its full potential.

F.ex. try beating a properly played DK druid (Another+enigmz ^^HAI), you won't.

EDIT: I think we should have CLOS to be a bit more competitable against hunters, not having flare on for the duration of CLOS, not getting slowed in the duration of CLOS. Also Flare range should break as soon as you get outside the range, not still being on even tho you ran across the map.
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#25 sarinn

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:54 AM

i think nfor crip poison to be reduced to a 50-60% snare, the proc rate has to stay.

what i dont want to see is a class completely useless like mine because of excessive nerfs.

id like to see higher armor and possibly a secondary effect of resilence to add some sort of reflex ability to decreaes the chance to be hit or something. with that cooldowns can be decreased just a bit to possibly make them usable more in defensive situations rather than immunities in offensive situations.

however, i for one love exploiting the vanish bug.
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#26 Atare

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:10 AM

i think nfor crip poison to be reduced to a 50-60% snare, the proc rate has to stay.

what i dont want to see is a class completely useless like mine because of excessive nerfs.

id like to see higher armor and possibly a secondary effect of resilence to add some sort of reflex ability to decreaes the chance to be hit or something. with that cooldowns can be decreased just a bit to possibly make them usable more in defensive situations rather than immunities in offensive situations.

however, i for one love exploiting the vanish bug.


You see, now we're getting somewhere. Why don't you use your time to cry about your class being overnerfed then? You ask for rogue nerfs, but you don't want to nerf them too much, only a tiny little bit.

I'm all for that, I will give you -30% on crip, I will give you overkill, hell even vigor glyph for some VIABLE buffs to survivability so that I don't blow up in 2-3 seconds in an arena setting. And guess what, if this actually happened, rogue/healer teams would be at least twice as strong. So yea... be careful what you wish for.
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#27 Loridan

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:27 AM

You see, now we're getting somewhere. Why don't you use your time to cry about your class being overnerfed then? You ask for rogue nerfs, but you don't want to nerf them too much, only a tiny little bit.

I'm all for that, I will give you -30% on crip, I will give you overkill, hell even vigor glyph for some VIABLE buffs to survivability so that I don't blow up in 2-3 seconds in an arena setting. And guess what, if this actually happened, rogue/healer teams would be at least twice as strong. So yea... be careful what you wish for.

^this.
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#28 Syia

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:29 AM

Wound poison and tricks. Tricks is already being fixed to something I'm okay with, wound poison just procs too much for the damage it adds.
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#29 Pitiless

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:29 AM

People on the WoW forums have been QQing about rogues for as long as I can remember, you really can't base anything off that. The vast majority of people are undergeared and will easily die to a rogue in a stunlock, then come to the forums and complain about it. Whenever I BG I can easily kill 90% of the people on the other team in a stunlock unless they have trinket up/bubble.

Rogues have been dropping a lot in the SK-100, if you base it on that. The biggest nerfs to rogues will be the rise of dru/warr and dru/dk.

Rogues are fine, we put out a lot of damage but we die EXTREMELY fast, it's not like we have a bugged cheat death right now. We're balanced. Now go away thx.
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#30 Nereva

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:35 AM

Burst from Mut, Mut, CB Evi, Mut is too strong. rest is fine, i think. Maybe lower the proccs from wound
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#31 Syia

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:35 AM

People on the WoW forums have been QQing about rogues for as long as I can remember, you really can't base anything off that. The vast majority of people are undergeared and will easily die to a rogue in a stunlock, then come to the forums and complain about it. Whenever I BG I can easily kill 90% of the people on the other team in a stunlock unless they have trinket up/bubble.

Rogues have been dropping a lot in the SK-100, if you base it on that. The biggest nerfs to rogues will be the rise of dru/warr and dru/dk.

Rogues are fine, we put out a lot of damage but we die EXTREMELY fast, it's not like we have a bugged cheat death right now. We're balanced. Now go away thx.


so

CLEAVE
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#32 Magdain

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:38 AM

Quick let's cripple 2 already bad pvp specs and 1 pve spec because we don't know how the game works.

j/k im syia/foxten/azurriku/random uninformed downs child
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#33 sarinn

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:39 AM

You see, now we're getting somewhere. Why don't you use your time to cry about your class being overnerfed then? You ask for rogue nerfs, but you don't want to nerf them too much, only a tiny little bit.

I'm all for that, I will give you -30% on crip, I will give you overkill, hell even vigor glyph for some VIABLE buffs to survivability so that I don't blow up in 2-3 seconds in an arena setting. And guess what, if this actually happened, rogue/healer teams would be at least twice as strong. So yea... be careful what you wish for.


now you cry about dying in 2-3 seconds but what about the first minute or so of not dying? is that supposed to reflect yoru lack of survivability?

i just love how rogues like you tend to turn things around and avoid the actual topic of the thread. good job troll.
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#34 Syia

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:41 AM

Quick let's cripple 2 already bad pvp specs and 1 pve spec because we don't know how the game works.

j/k im syia/foxten/azurriku/random uninformed downs child


crying
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#35 Joev

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:41 AM

People on the WoW forums have been QQing about rogues for as long as I can remember, you really can't base anything off that. The vast majority of people are undergeared and will easily die to a rogue in a stunlock, then come to the forums and complain about it. Whenever I BG I can easily kill 90% of the people on the other team in a stunlock unless they have trinket up/bubble.

Rogues have been dropping a lot in the SK-100, if you base it on that. The biggest nerfs to rogues will be the rise of dru/warr and dru/dk.

Rogues are fine, we put out a lot of damage but we die EXTREMELY fast, it's not like we have a bugged cheat death right now. We're balanced. Now go away thx.


Haha same, yeh. Going to a battleground as a rogue and i just... i don't even see killing most people as a fight, it's just like killing a mob or something... And i guess bads just whine about that.

But there is not really anything you can do to nerf rogues, we're horribly weak and fragile, and a hunter brings this up above everything? I won't ever touch a decent hunter bar maybe a cheap shot if i'm lucky.

I guess i can just repeat what has been said allready, to be honest though, Xanny covered every idea and issue that has been around the rogue forums for a while now.
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#36 Magdain

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 10:42 AM

crying


commenting on something you have no clue about
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#37 Bald

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 11:01 AM

Nerf vanish until it works.

Flawless.
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#38 Lolflay

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 11:03 AM

Rogues are fine.
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#39 Azurriku

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 11:11 AM

Quick let's cripple 2 already bad pvp specs and 1 pve spec because we don't know how the game works.

j/k im syia/foxten/azurriku/random uninformed downs child


wait what? i've played my rogue since classic. in s1-s4 30% woundpoison proc was enough to allways have at least a 1-3 woundstack up. now that it ony requires one stack to be at full potential, all a 50% proc does is provide unmigitated dmg. the only part where this dmg is truely noticeable is plate. rogues are an anti cloth class, of course they should have harder times vs plate.

part of a rogues skill was managing poisons back then. they still where successful. now with deadly brew you can keep 3 poisons without even having to ever think about them. "lol poison was cleansed. np its back on, who needs shiv anyways?"

i can give constructive feedback on things that were needlessly changed from tbc->wotlk, you can only flame. lowering poisen proc will surely kill of mutilate, yea right...good rogues will remain good rogues, those who need a cruch like nonstop procs will have to gain some skill.

and if you remember classic, poison procs were a lot lower back then, nobody cared!

but who am i, just a kid with downs...
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#40 Magdain

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 11:31 AM

p.s. nobody cares about bc or classic because we're playing an entirely new expansion.

combat and subtlety rogues would be destroyed in pvp. they're both already awful specs and it will be the nail in the coffin.

combat would be destroyed in pve.

regardless of how you personally feel about wound poison, the entire class is balanced around how it currently works in both pvp and pve. you're free to draft up an entire class redesign so the developers can cater to your personal whims and change wound poison though. i'll be holding my breath waiting.
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